GPA: undergraduate vs graduate

[blurrynerd]

Can anyone possibly provide insight into how medical schools would weight GPA from undergraduate vs graduate work, especially if there is a downward trend?

My specific situation:
Undergraduate cGPA = 3.96
Undergraduate sGPA = 3.97
Graduate cGPA = 3.45
Graduate sGPA = 3.45

Graduate degree is a PhD in chemistry and the degree has been completed.

I am not sure if this graduate degree will hurt me or help me in the application process. I am also not sure if I should explain the lower GPA in my application, or just let it be. Thank you!

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[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

They don't really care about graduate degrees much as far as I know. I'm sure having a PhD probably offsets it anyway tbh.

 

[Med Ed]

Given that you earned a doctorate in a pretty hard subject, and your graduate GPA is 3.5-ish, nobody is going to care.

 

[LunaOri]

Assuming you get a decent MCAT score, you will be fine.

 

[blurrynerd]

Thank you all for the thoughts on this! I am definitely breathing a sigh of relief about the GPA. Yes, I will have to think about how to explain the motivation for the switch from basic science research in a concise way.

For clarification about the MCAT, I would imagine that a decent MCAT score would be the average MCAT score (+/- 2 points) of accepted applicants from my target schools. Is that an appropriate way to think of that metric?

Thank you again for taking the time to answer.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Honestly would wonder why the poor GPA. Graduate programs are notorious for handing out As like candy. Below 3.5 would make me wonder why you struggled, and if the answer was, "well, my program is different and they grade hard," i wouldn't find it satisfying

 

[blurrynerd]

Right?! This is precisely the conundrum that I am dealing with! The concern at the back of my mind is that this grad GPA will automatically screen my application out or that it will be considered a red flag by an adcom, without follow-up.

But I am a bit curious about the perspective of graduate degrees being a source of easy grades. Is this a view that is commonly held by adcoms? It seems odd to me that one would view the GPA of a PhD degree as equivalent to the GPA of a course based master's degree. These are completely different types of degrees. Many PhD programs report attrition rates of 40-60% and many stellar students are forced to strategize to only do “well enough” in courses, so they can focus their efforts on other more fruitful aspects of learning, teaching, researching and professional development that have a more direct impact on the successful completion of the PhD. I would venture to say that comparing a GPA in a research based PhD to the GPA of a course based master's degree, or even comparing my very own graduate GPA to my undergraduate GPA, is like comparing apples to oranges. But alas, I am only a med school applicant, not the adcom!

To fix the problem, I could feasibly do a course based graduate degree that is, as you say, “notorious for handing out As like candy” and could boost my graduate GPA to 3.75 if not higher (the graded coursework was a minimal part of my PhD). But, if undergraduate GPA, MCAT scores and ECs are what is most important, then a boost in grad GPA might not help me out that much. I just don’t know...

At the end of the day, my goal is to become a physician. I am completely excited to discuss how that PhD in chemistry is a relevant part of my path to medicine and how what I learned doing that degree will help me be a great physician. But, I just want to make sure my app isn't going to get screened out along the way...

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

We were dealing with a different beast here. Most masters degree is in most areas generally have relatively easy grading. This however is a PhD program in chemistry, It’s one or two magnitude at least above what most applicants have as masters degrees

I worked for a few research institutions and was pretty familiar with their PhDs. I new saw anyone get anything below a 3.8 by the time of graduation. Grade inflation happens in PhD programs just as much as masters as most PhD classes are your first year and a half where people can "master out" if they want to

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Right?! This is precisely the conundrum that I am dealing with! The concern at the back of my mind is that this grad GPA will automatically screen my application out or that it will be considered a red flag by an adcom, without follow-up.

But I am a bit curious about the perspective of graduate degrees being a source of easy grades. Is this a view that is commonly held by adcoms? It seems odd to me that one would view the GPA of a PhD degree as equivalent to the GPA of a course based master's degree. These are completely different types of degrees. Many PhD programs report attrition rates of 40-60% and many stellar students are forced to strategize to only do “well enough” in courses, so they can focus their efforts on other more fruitful aspects of learning, teaching, researching and professional development that have a more direct impact on the successful completion of the PhD. I would venture to say that comparing a GPA in a research based PhD to the GPA of a course based master's degree, or even comparing my very own graduate GPA to my undergraduate GPA, is like comparing apples to oranges. But alas, I am only a med school applicant, not the adcom!

To fix the problem, I could feasibly do a course based graduate degree that is, as you say, “notorious for handing out As like candy” and could boost my graduate GPA to 3.75 if not higher (the graded coursework was a minimal part of my PhD). But, if undergraduate GPA, MCAT scores and ECs are what is most important, then a boost in grad GPA might not help me out that much. I just don’t know...

At the end of the day, my goal is to become a physician. I am completely excited to discuss how that PhD in chemistry is a relevant part of my path to medicine and how what I learned doing that degree will help me be a great physician. But, I just want to make sure my app isn't going to get screened out along the way...

From my experience dealing with PhD candidates, they told me that grading was basically A = Pass, so while I agree there is considerable effort to pass the class, the grading is artificially blown up. I don't think your grades are enough to screen you out, especially if your MCAT will be recent. I do think it might be a conversation in an interview

 

[Med Ed]

I worked for a few research institutions and was pretty familiar with their PhDs. I new saw anyone get anything below a 3.8 by the time of graduation.

What fields were their PhD's in and how did you have access to their graduate GPA's?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

What fields were their PhD's in and how did you have access to their graduate GPA's?

Biological science and neuroscience. I worked for the department

 

[Med Ed]

Biological science and neuroscience. I worked for the department

You are correct about graduate GPA's for the biological sciences (including neuroscience). But hard science graduate programs (like chemistry and physics) tend to play by different rules.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You are correct about graduate GPA's for the biological sciences (including neuroscience). But hard science graduate programs (like chemistry and physics) tend to play by different rules.

Can you cite any evidence to this? I'm not saying you're wrong. I have not heard of this before

 

[Med Ed]

Can you cite any evidence to this? I'm not saying you're wrong. I have not heard of this before

I'm not aware of anything published about the grading schemes of hard science graduate programs. My knowledge just comes from my experience, good mentors who understood a lot of nuance, and many conversations with colleagues over the years.

Even if I'm wrong in this instance and the OP's graduate GPA was on the low side for their program, the average adcom isn't going to know what to do with it. They're going to see a PhD in a subject feared by most medical types, a near perfect undergraduate GPA, and they're going to move on to other parts of the application.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm not aware of anything published about the grading schemes of hard science graduate programs. My knowledge just comes from my experience, good mentors who understood a lot of nuance, and many conversations with colleagues over the years.

Even if I'm wrong in this instance and the OP's graduate GPA was on the low side for their program, the average adcom isn't going to know what to do with it. They're going to see a PhD in a subject feared by most medical types, a near perfect undergraduate GPA, and they're going to move on to other parts of the application.

Agree with the last part. I think at most they may ask him during the interview, so he should have an answer for it

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I don't recall faculty getting hung up on a PhD GPA. It could happen but having the degree usually suffices. There are different questions to ask PhD applicants.