Good internship news for international students in Sydney/NSW

[shan564]

NSW's IMET (institute of medical education/training) just put out the information for how they'll allocate internship places in the near future. Starting in 2011, the international student disadvantage will become less of a disadvantage. Here's a quick summary:

1. Local CSP students will be guaranteed an internship.
2. After all of the CSP students get their internships, there will be no preference given to domestic students. All applications will be judged on merit.

That means that international students are no longer "last-priority" for internships. Sure, it's still not guaranteed, but now we know that we'll at least be competing with the local students instead of just being shuffled to the back of the line.

Also, ANU grads (100 people) will no longer be included in the NSW internship pool, so that lessens the blow of the new graduating class from UoW (I think that's less than 100 people).

Most of the local students have a CSP spot, so this isn't a night-and-day difference... but it does significantly increase our chances of getting an internship. Instead of being at the bottom of the list and fighting for a place with other international students, we'll be competing with the domestic students who were at the bottom of the admissions list.

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[tripledogdare]

thx for this good news, shan564! also, is there an official paper or other form of announcement if we want to get the specific details? thx again.

 

[iDream]

Sorry, I'm still getting accustomed with the abbreviations and terms - what does CSP stand for? Also, thanks for the new info!

 

[shan564]

Here's the link, but you might need a password to access it:
http://www.gmp.usyd.edu.au/2009-bulletins/09bulletin192IMET.pdf

If it doesn't let you in, let me know and I'll upload it elsewhere.

 

[shan564]

Sorry, I'm still getting accustomed with the abbreviations and terms - what does CSP stand for? Also, thanks for the new info!

CSP = Commonwealth Supported Place. Most of the local students have CSPs, which means that they get discounted fees and priority for internships. The rest of the local students are full fee-paying, and their fees are almost as high as ours.

 

[tripledogdare]

hey shan564! it worked! i got it now. thx again for it.

 

[tripledogdare]

i dont know if this is just in my uni or state, but there's also other ones like rural bonded and medical bonded (to workforce shortage areas).

 

[redshifteffect]

Rural and medical bonded exist in pretty much all the States/Unis.

 

[jaketheory]

Rural and medical bonded exist in pretty much all the States/Unis.

the fed gov't requires ~25% of all CSP's at all med schools (at least those offering CSP's) be bonded places.

 

[iDream]

CSP = Commonwealth Supported Place. Most of the local students have CSPs, which means that they get discounted fees and priority for internships. The rest of the local students are full fee-paying, and their fees are almost as high as ours.

Thanks!

 

[JanikeyDoc]

NSW's IMET (institute of medical education/training) just put out the information for how they'll allocate internship places in the near future. Starting in 2011, the international student disadvantage will become less of a disadvantage. Here's a quick summary:

1. Local CSP students will be guaranteed an internship.
2. After all of the CSP students get their internships, there will be no preference given to domestic students. All applications will be judged on merit.

That means that international students are no longer "last-priority" for internships. Sure, it's still not guaranteed, but now we know that we'll at least be competing with the local students instead of just being shuffled to the back of the line.

Also, ANU grads (100 people) will no longer be included in the NSW internship pool, so that lessens the blow of the new graduating class from UoW (I think that's less than 100 people).

Most of the local students have a CSP spot, so this isn't a night-and-day difference... but it does significantly increase our chances of getting an internship. Instead of being at the bottom of the list and fighting for a place with other international students, we'll be competing with the domestic students who were at the bottom of the admissions list.

That still means that its not a guarantee that you can stay in Australia when you finish school. The US Dollar is beginning to slide again, I honestly do not want to go 300k in debt and have no job at the end. Also if you have not noticed in the US they are cutting residencies and opening more med schools, which means IMGs are going to have a much harder time getting a residency in the future. In Canada, the deck is completely stacked against IMGs, its not uncommon to hear about European surgeons in Quebec driving taxis or delivering pizzas.

 

[redshifteffect]

You know if you are close to your girlfriend you could easily get a PR - just apply as a defacto couple.

If you get local tuition you would probably have a debt of 20-40k and you'd probably still have a shot at the same community based IM/FM programs you would have with a DO. Provided you studied hard for the USMLE of course. You don't even have the disadvantage of not having a green card...so why not do it that way?

 

[shan564]

That still means that its not a guarantee that you can stay in Australia when you finish school. The US Dollar is beginning to slide again, I honestly do not want to go 300k in debt and have no job at the end. Also if you have not noticed in the US they are cutting residencies and opening more med schools, which means IMGs are going to have a much harder time getting a residency in the future. In Canada, the deck is completely stacked against IMGs, its not uncommon to hear about European surgeons in Quebec driving taxis or delivering pizzas.

Of course there's no guarantee... the point is just that it's positive news. I'm not too worried about "not having a job in the end"... there are plenty of backup plans.

It sounds like you're saying that everybody would be better off just going to med school in the US - but that's not always an option. Everybody has a different set of conditions.

 

[iDream]

If you don't mind sharing your thoughts, what kind of back up options do you have in mind at this point?

 

[shan564]

In no particular order:

1. Take the USMLE (after year 2) and go to the US. If I don't do pass the USMLE, then I keep taking it.
2. Apply for internships in NZ.
3. Get some rural experience and try to get an internship in the Northern Territory.
4. Apply for internships in Singapore, Malaysia, and some other countries whose internships are recognized in Australia.
5. Get PR in Australia - and there are a lot of ways to do this, but the worst-case scenario is just that I'd work in Australia (not in a medical internship) for a year or two after graduation.

 

[rox]

5. Get PR in Australia - and there are a lot of ways to do this, but the worst-case scenario is just that I'd work in Australia (not in a medical internship) for a year or two after graduation.

I was wondering if anyone knows the requirements to get PR in Australia for IMG's. My understanding is that you can apply to PR once you get a full registration. And in order to get a full registration in NSW, you have to spend at least 12 months in training and pass both AMC exams. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[shan564]

I was wondering if anyone knows the requirements to get PR in Australia for IMG's. My understanding is that you can apply to PR once you get a full registration. And in order to get a full registration in NSW, you have to spend at least 12 months in training and pass both AMC exams. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

That's if you want to use your medical degree to help you get PR. You can always just apply through the same process as everybody else. The requirements are fairly complicated and vary depending on a variety of factors.

But if you're from overseas, it will become almost impossible to get an internship within the next year or two. So you can go through the alternative pathways to get PR, but if you don't take the AMC exams (and apply for an internship) soon, then you're severely restricting your chances of being a doctor in Australia.

 

[AcerExtensa]

That's if you want to use your medical degree to help you get PR. You can always just apply through the same process as everybody else. The requirements are fairly complicated and vary depending on a variety of factors.

But if you're from overseas, it will become almost impossible to get an internship within the next year or two. So you can go through the alternative pathways to get PR, but if you don't take the AMC exams (and apply for an internship) soon, then you're severely restricting your chances of being a doctor in Australia.

Hey Shan, by 'overseas' are you referring to IMGs only ( ie those who did not go to an Australian med schools) or those with foreign passports ( international graduates and IMGs included ?)

 

[jaketheory]

That's if you want to use your medical degree to help you get PR. You can always just apply through the same process as everybody else. The requirements are fairly complicated and vary depending on a variety of factors.

to be eligible for skilled migration, you will need 12 months experience within the last 24 months working at least 20 hours/week in your nominated occupation at the time your visa application is submitted.

But if you're from overseas, it will become almost impossible to get an internship within the next year or two. So you can go through the alternative pathways to get PR, but if you don't take the AMC exams (and apply for an internship) soon, then you're severely restricting your chances of being a doctor in Australia.

at least for NSW, to be eligible for internship an AMC graduate is required to have at the time of applying for internship a visa allowing them to work and live unrestricted in Australia for at least 12 months.

 

[iDream]

In no particular order:

1. Take the USMLE (after year 2) and go to the US. If I don't do pass the USMLE, then I keep taking it.
2. Apply for internships in NZ.
3. Get some rural experience and try to get an internship in the Northern Territory.
4. Apply for internships in Singapore, Malaysia, and some other countries whose internships are recognized in Australia.
5. Get PR in Australia - and there are a lot of ways to do this, but the worst-case scenario is just that I'd work in Australia (not in a medical internship) for a year or two after graduation.

Cool thanks for sharing! I don't have too much information about these aspects yet, but they definitely seem to be viable options.

 

[rox]

That's if you want to use your medical degree to help you get PR. You can always just apply through the same process as everybody else. The requirements are fairly complicated and vary depending on a variety of factors.

I thought applying to PR using my degree is the only option. Actually, I have two brothers who migrated to Oz, both of them studied business and had work experience for 2 years. For them, it was literally just a matter of paperwork. Can I apply now to PR as a newly graduated doctor?

But if you're from overseas, it will become almost impossible to get an internship within the next year or two.

I thought this thread was bringing good news to IMGs. Am I missing something here?

So you can go through the alternative pathways to get PR, but if you don't take the AMC exams (and apply for an internship) soon, then you're severely restricting your chances of being a doctor in Australia.

Can you please elaborate more on that point?

 

[redshifteffect]

I thought applying to PR using my degree is the only option. Actually, I have two brothers who migrated to Oz, both of them studied business and had work experience for 2 years. For them, it was literally just a matter of paperwork. Can I apply now to PR as a newly graduated doctor?



I thought this thread was bringing good news to IMGs. Am I missing something here?



Can you please elaborate more on that point?

Not quite, this tread is good for international students, not IMGs. International students = foreign students who trained with an Australian degree.

If I were you I'd forget about NSW, they are they most restrictive state. You should try to find a state with easier rules about passing the AMC/getting Internship.

If you've done an internship considered equivalent to an Australian one then you might be able to get that accredited. Unfortunately we know virtually nothing about you or your situation, so it's hard to offer any advice.

 

[shan564]

Hey Shan, by 'overseas' are you referring to IMGs only ( ie those who did not go to an Australian med schools) or those with foreign passports ( international graduates and IMGs included ?)

I mean IMGs only. If you went to med school in Australia, it'll be easier (see the earlier posts in this thread). I don't know too much about the other states, but this info refers to NSW.

I thought applying to PR using my degree is the only option. Actually, I have two brothers who migrated to Oz, both of them studied business and had work experience for 2 years. For them, it was literally just a matter of paperwork. Can I apply now to PR as a newly graduated doctor?

Yes, but a medical degree qualifies you to do more than just "be a doctor". For example, I could apply for PR right now because my degree/experience qualify me as a chemist, a biologist, a biochemist, or a life scientist, all four of which allow me to qualify for NSW state sponsorship. But that requires you to have work experience (in my case, I have an undergraduate chemistry degree and plenty of research experience).

I thought this thread was bringing good news to IMGs. Am I missing something here?

No, it's supposed to bring good news to "international students", not IMGs. The term "international students" generally refers to foreigners (mostly Canadians) studying medicine in Australia.

Can you please elaborate more on that point?

Well, this has been covered several times before on the forums, but I'll sum it up for you.
Recently, high demand for doctors in Australia has sparked the opening of several new medical schools and the increasing of hte class size in already-existing medical schools. So, in the next few years, the number of medical graduates will be progressively increasing. The number of internship spots will also be increasing, but there is no indication that this will happen quickly enough to accommodate all of the extra graduates.
In the past, there have been extra internship spots that usually end up being filled by IMGs who pass the AMC exams. Starting in 2011, the number of Australian graduates will be higher than the number of internship spots. There's a good chance that many Australian graduates (particularly those with foreign passports, like myself) will end up without an internship. That means that there won't be any "extra" spots left over for IMGs.


Of course, all of this will change if the government creates more internship spots to help address the shortage of doctors. This is likely to happen eventually, but we don't know when.

 

[rox]

Not quite, this tread is good for international students, not IMGs. International students = foreign students who trained with an Australian degree.

Oh I see. I was obviously mixing up between international students and IMG's. That explains a lot now.

If I were you I'd forget about NSW, they are they most restrictive state. You should try to find a state with easier rules about passing the AMC/getting Internship.

Well, I'm actually considering NSW only because I have family over there. I am aware they don't offer internships for IMG's but I believe they have an equivalent supervised training programs for IMG's. I believe I'm gonna start looking at other states since you're saying NSW is the most restrictive.

If you've done an internship considered equivalent to an Australian one then you might be able to get that accredited. Unfortunately we know virtually nothing about you or your situation, so it's hard to offer any advice.

Actually I've just graduated with an MBBS degree from oversees. I'll be doing my internship in the same country. So you're basically saying I can have my internship accrediated and then go from there to JHO( or whatever the next level is)? Do you believe that will be an easier pathway?

 

[jaketheory]

I thought applying to PR using my degree is the only option. Actually, I have two brothers who migrated to Oz, both of them studied business and had work experience for 2 years. For them, it was literally just a matter of paperwork. Can I apply now to PR as a newly graduated doctor?
QUOTE]

i believe this was already pointed out, but you will need to be eligible for full registration in order to be eligible for PR as a medical practitioner through skilled migration. For this you will need to have completed an internship or an equivalent 12 months of supervised training in Aus. Some here are saying the internship may be completed elsewhere if it is recognized in Australia. Whether or not the internship you complete in your own country is recognized will largely depend on what country that is. Apparantly certain countries have AMC accredited internships (eg. Malaysia). it may be possible that an internship not formally recognized as accredited will fill this requirement; however, you will have to work this out with the individual state medical boards prior to applying to your visa (for you will need registration before submitting your visa app).

 

[rox]

Yes, but a medical degree qualifies you to do more than just "be a doctor". For example, I could apply for PR right now because my degree/experience qualify me as a chemist, a biologist, a biochemist, or a life scientist, all four of which allow me to qualify for NSW state sponsorship. But that requires you to have work experience (in my case, I have an undergraduate chemistry degree and plenty of research experience).

Well, I hold an MBBS degree with no premed degree. Do you believe I still qualify as a biologist or biochemist if I have research experience in these fields along with my MBBS?

So in your case, is there any advantage for applying to PR as a doctor over a chemist?

 

[jaketheory]

Well, I hold an MBBS degree with no premed degree. Do you believe I still qualify as a biologist or biochemist if I have research experience in these fields along with my MBBS?

So in your case, is there any advantage for applying to PR as a doctor over a chemist?

qualifications for biochemist and biologists are assessed by Vetassess. The only thing they assess is whether or not your degree is considered to be at the level of at least the minimum Australian qualification required for the occupation. you can search occupations on the immigration website and it will tell you the minimum qualification required. as i've gone through this process within the last 12 months, i can tell you that the minimum required for a biologist or biochemist (i applied as a biochemist) is a bachelor degree. thus, your degree would need to be considered at a level equivalent or higher than an Australian bachelor degree. It does not have to be in the field of your nominated occupation. my degree is in psychology. your MBBS would likely meet this minimum assuming it is from a recognized medical school. individual states can, however, require you to have a more advanced qualification. when i was applying the only state that would sponsor for an occupation i could claim was NSW and they only required a bachelors.

you will also have to meet the experience requirement of at least 12 months experience within the last 24 working a minimum of 20 hrs/week in your nominated occupation. Again, the states can require more than the minimum but NSW did not. I had 3 years experience in the last 4 years for which i got a few extra points. You will have to provide documentation to evidence your experience including payslips and letters from your employer which both provide details of the nature of the work, how long you've been employed, and on what basis (full-time/part-time, # of hrs/week). the experience requirement is considered for the date you actually submit you application, not the date which they review it, which can be 9 months or more after you submit.

I'd advise anyone seeking the state sponsored route that is considering applying while a med student on the basis of a previous occupation and not currently working in that field to inquire to your prospective state. It would be my opinion that not working in the field and also being a current medical student would be a major red flag. you will be required to submit your CV/work history so they will know that you are not working (unless you misrepresent yourself, which is grounds for cancelling your visa, see code s104). I would also expect them to inquire as to what you were doing with your time if not working. Further, a simple search in the visa database will highlight that you are currently a student. the assumption the state makes is that by sponsoring you, you will work in your nominated occupation (though it is not required). they are willing to sponsor you because your nominated occupation is in demand in that particular state. if you appear to be in the midst of transitioning to a different occupation they would have no motivation to sponsor you.

 

[rox]

Thanks jake for sharing your experience. It's really helpful.

So I did some thorough reading through the immigration and VETASSESS's websites but there are actually two inquiries I couldn't find answers to.

First, for my MBBS to be successfully assessed as equivalent, does it need to match a certain curriculum or include certain courses? or just basically being a bachelor degree is enough?

Second, is there a description for the type of work to be considered as "experience", ie research, teaching, assistant....etc?

I plan on contacting some immigration agency soon and I appreciate any helpful inputs.

 

[jaketheory]

First, for my MBBS to be successfully assessed as equivalent, does it need to match a certain curriculum or include certain courses? or just basically being a bachelor degree is enough?

they will assess if your degree is considered a qualification at least the same level as an Australian bachelors (for biochemist at least). they wont care what courses you took since the degree doesnt even have to be related to your nominated occupation - it could be in anything. my degree is from the US. US degrees are 4 years and in general recognized worldwide. Australian bachelors are only 3 years so i wasn't really worried about not passing the assessment. i had to send transcripts and a copy of my degree testamur/diploma.

Second, is there a description for the type of work to be considered as "experience", ie research, teaching, assistant....etc?

most certainly. you can start here: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/0/8F570F0AB7E1B2DDCA25697E00184F68?opendocument

when i applied i was worried my job description would not convince them i met the biochemist requirement. at the time chemistry technical officer was also on the list of occupations NSW would sponsor, but it was only a 40 point occupations. i basiclly asked my boss to write a letter describing my job in a way that made it sound like it met both the biochemist and chemistry technical officer descriptions. note that the evidence of your job will be sent first to the state for which you are applying to sponsor you and then the department of immigration. vetassess will never see it, they only assess your degree.

 

[depo]

hi, i'm a new member 2 dis forum,i will like to know how i can apply 4 internship in the carribean?what are the requirements?what are the options available?
I graduated 4m a med sch. in Nigeria=west Africa.will appreciate anybody with info about this....
thanx.

 

[pitman]

the fed gov't requires ~25% of all CSP's at all med schools (at least those offering CSP's) be bonded places.

So does that mean the BMP students will still have top priority? Aren't there still two types of BMP (financially supported and not), making many of them non-CSP? Or are they all now unsupported? Or is the term "supported" in CSP now just outdated?

 

[jaketheory]

So does that mean the BMP students will still have top priority? Aren't there still two types of BMP (financially supported and not), making many of them non-CSP? Or are they all now unsupported? Or is the term "supported" in CSP now just outdated?

i think a lot of people dont understand bmp's.

there are MRBS, medical rural bonded scholarships, which are not bmp's. their obligations are different than BMP's and they include a scholarship for living expenses. they dont cover the student contribution; however, they get like 23k/year and in return have to commit to workin rural for 6 years. they cannot buy their way out of that contract. there are severe sanctions for breaking the contract which essentially make it impossible to practice for 10 years. they would have to repay the the govt subsides as well as the scholarship and have cannot get a medicare # for 10 years. i think there is also something that prohibits them from getting licenses for 10 years as well, but i'm no expert on MRBS. the info is available of the dept of healths website. they are only offered to the top few applicants willing to consider them.

bmp's get no funding for living expenses and must commit to 4 years to an "area of need", which can be in metro areas. they can buy their way out if they later decide to break the contract. this would entail paying back the govt subsides of their education (~16k AUD/year). BMP's are first allocated to the top applicants willing to accept one over an CSP and all the rest are allocated to the bottom 25% of applicants. I cant imagine why anyone would prefer a BMP over a CSP, except maybe if a student is absolutely certain they would practice in such an area anyway, and thus taking such a place frees the CSP for someone else. i think in practice they are just allocated to the lower 25% because noone preferences BMP over CSP.

Both bmp's and MRBS are commonwealth supported places. that is, the educational cost is subsidized by they govt and students do not pay full fees. as many are aware, domestic full fee places were eradicated recently. thus, all local places are CSP's save for some students at private medical schools (Bond and Notre Dame Sydney) and those that got full fee places before the new legislation.

then there are unbonded csp, which make up the majority of places.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

This ruling is not going to change the fact that many internationals will not be able to stay, starting with those who are finishing medicine in 2012 onward. I have no idea how NSW is going to handle the new graduates, the health service here is bankrupt, I seriously doubt they will increase the number of training spots to a significant degree.

 

[shan564]

Update: IMET released their official policy, and it looks like they won't be changing anything. So life still sucks for us.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

That is exactly why I won't fork over 300k for an Aussie school. I was seriously looking into it but after spending some time here and experiencing the reality, sure America has its problems, but I rather live there.

NSW Health is broke, I really doubt they are going to double training positions in four years, they might increase it but by a much smaller amount.

Another thing is that Australian immigration is extremely difficult for people over the age of 30. If I go to school in Oz, I will be in my late 30s and getting enough point for PR will be very hard.

My advice for anyone who wants to study in Australia is get PR first then take the GAMSAT, you will save thousands of dollars.

 

[jaketheory]

That is exactly why I won't fork over 300k for an Aussie school. I was seriously looking into it but after spending some time here and experiencing the reality, sure America has its problems, but I rather live there.

NSW Health is broke, I really doubt they are going to double training positions in four years, they might increase it but by a much smaller amount.

Another thing is that Australian immigration is extremely difficult for people over the age of 30. If I go to school in Oz, I will be in my late 30s and getting enough point for PR will be very hard.

My advice for anyone who wants to study in Australia is get PR first then take the GAMSAT, you will save thousands of dollars.

first, if you are so against going to aussie medical schools why the hell do you still hang out in this forum? just to rant to others how bad of an idea YOU think it is?

second, i just got my PR and I am 30. didnt really make a difference. sure, i got fewer points but i still met the pass mark.

 

[redshifteffect]

Joe it's true you lose points as you get older, but it doesn't really matter since a medical degree and most of the other factors should give you more then enough points to get a PR.

I'm really confused why can't you get a PR?

So what you rather do go to a US DO school @ 80k-120k or an Oz MD school @ 40k as a local?

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Joe it's true you lose points as you get older, but it doesn't really matter since a medical degree and most of the other factors should give you more then enough points to get a PR.

I'm really confused why can't you get a PR?

So what you rather do go to a US DO school @ 80k-120k or an Oz MD school @ 40k as a local?

If I could pay local fees and get help from the Australian government, sure. I see Jake's rationale for going to Oz, he has PR, and therefore will save bundles of money. He is doing it the smart way, more power to him if he can get a medical degree for nearly no money. However for internationals, its more like international students are a source of cash for the schools and there is no guarantee of a job or PR even after finishing the course and going into debt.

My name is not Joe its Jan.

 

[redshifteffect]

If I could pay local fees and get help from the Australian government, sure. I see Jake's rationale for going to Oz, he has PR, and therefore will save bundles of money. He is doing it the smart way, more power to him if he can get a medical degree for nearly no money. However for internationals, its more like international students are a source of cash for the schools and there is no guarantee of a job or PR even after finishing the course and going into debt.

My name is not Joe its Jan.

You see this is the part of your story that doesn't make sense to me. According to you, you have a girlfriend who cares about you a lot, and is even willing to move to the US for you. Yet you can't apply for a PR using her as your defacto partner? You don't even need to be married (hence the defacto part) to do this, I know cause a lot of shady guys in my medschool did exactly this to get their PR.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

I already know that I could get PR through my girlfriend or even my skills. The thing is that I have family back home in the US. I don't think I can stay here for an extended period of time. I got a lot of other family back in the US, including a 2 year old niece, a little brother and lots of cousins. So I am tilted more towards just going back home.

Australia has its positives, people tend to work less here and have more free time, in general, the weather is a bit milder, although right now Sydney is cold. But I am family type of guy and that is what has tilted me towards going back home. People are also a lot less status oriented than Americans, coming from Miami, I know a lot of people there who are obsessed with showing off to impress people, I am not really into that, Australia for the most part is not like that except for maybe certain parts of Sydney, like Mosman.

I ain't knocking Australia, and I think its one of the better places in the world, the issue is that for someone coming from far away, it can be a big adjustment being a stranger in a new place.

 

[redshifteffect]

But surely 4 years isn't a huge burden? Even if you were in the US if you are in a city that's far away from Miami then you wouldn't have time to fly home that often?

If you think about it you will be an extra 40-80k in debt if you go to a DO school vs. a gov't subsidised medschool education in Oz.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

The other issue is that due to the financial crisis, many hospitals are cutting back residency training programs in the US, but more medical schools are opening up, that means more competition to get into a postgrad training program. Again, even if I pay more money I am assured of getting at least something from a DO school in the US. The match rate this year was brutal, and for IMGs it was particularly hard.

 

[Brinkley221]

In no particular order:

1. Take the USMLE (after year 2) and go to the US. If I don't do pass the USMLE, then I keep taking it.
2. Apply for internships in NZ.
3. Get some rural experience and try to get an internship in the Northern Territory.
4. Apply for internships in Singapore, Malaysia, and some other countries whose internships are recognized in Australia.
5. Get PR in Australia - and there are a lot of ways to do this, but the worst-case scenario is just that I'd work in Australia (not in a medical internship) for a year or two after graduation.

Hi Shan! I am a third year med student at a US school and am looking into doing an internship and residency outside the US. Can you give me any information on the quality of residency programs in other countries, particularly New Zealand, and the specialties offered there? Thanks!

 

[shan564]

Hey, I'm probably not the best person to ask, but I can give you a quick summary of things that you might need to know:
1. It's VERY difficult for an international graduate to get a residency in Australia, but you might be able to get one in NZ.
2. If you do your residency internationally, you won't be board certified in the US.
3. The quality of the training programs here is just as good, but there are a few key differences. You don't have to work long hours here, but the training is usually 6-7 years rather than 3-4. Also, trainees get much better salaries in Australia (compared to the US). Doctors in NZ make a little bit less than Australians, but it's still decent.
4. The specialties are pretty much the same everywhere. Australians need rheumatologists and neurologists just as much as Americans do.

 

[KofCalgary]

Hi gang,
This is wonderful info here. I have a question I can't seem to find a straight answer to. I've been accepted by USyd to start the MBBS program in Feb 2010, and as a Canadian I'll have to apply for a Student Visa soon. What I'd like to know is can I also apply for a General Skilled Migration visa now while I'm outside Australia in hopes of getting PR status during my studies there? Like most, I would like to increase my chances of landing intership while potentially paying lower tuition. Help would be kindly appreciated. Thx.

 

[shan564]

Hi gang,
This is wonderful info here. I have a question I can't seem to find a straight answer to. I've been accepted by USyd to start the MBBS program in Feb 2010, and as a Canadian I'll have to apply for a Student Visa soon. What I'd like to know is can I also apply for a General Skilled Migration visa now while I'm outside Australia in hopes of getting PR status during my studies there? Like most, I would like to increase my chances of landing intership while potentially paying lower tuition. Help would be kindly appreciated. Thx.

If you want to apply for PR, you have to ask for special permission from the university before you do anything else. Technically, if you become a PR, you lose your place as an "international student", and whether they give you a place as a "domestic student" is up to them. The situation is uncommon enough so that they don't have a specific policy about it (they do it on a case-by-case basis), so you should ask them.

 

[jaketheory]

If you want to apply for PR, you have to ask for special permission from the university before you do anything else. Technically, if you become a PR, you lose your place as an "international student", and whether they give you a place as a "domestic student" is up to them. The situation is uncommon enough so that they don't have a specific policy about it (they do it on a case-by-case basis), so you should ask them.

pretty much exactly what i was going to say. i'll also add that it may not afford you a huge savings as they may allow you to transfer to a domestic place, but by default this is likely to be a full-fee place (which are not even offered anymore to domestics upon initial admission to the course). transferring into a csp would depend on other seeking to do so and any drop outs, so it would be competitive, but some schools may not allow it altogethor.

 

[Transition]

If you want to apply for PR, you have to ask for special permission from the university before you do anything else. Technically, if you become a PR, you lose your place as an "international student", and whether they give you a place as a "domestic student" is up to them. The situation is uncommon enough so that they don't have a specific policy about it (they do it on a case-by-case basis), so you should ask them.

Not necessarily true any more. Recently (about a year ago), there was legislation passed allowing internationals to gain PR status and transfer their international FFP spot to a local FFP spot without any penalty. I've not had any of the schools inform me of requiring special permission and the immigration department confirmed this. The only school that allows you to go to a local CSP from international FFP is ANU, from my research.

This information is from the websites of each of the schools (listed in my blog - Australian Medical Schools post) or direct emails to the admissions offices.

 

[driedcaribou]

2. If you do your residency internationally, you won't be board certified in the US.
3. The quality of the training programs here is just as good, but there are a few key differences. You don't have to work long hours here, but the training is usually 6-7 years rather than 3-4. Also, trainees get much better salaries in Australia (compared to the US). Doctors in NZ make a little bit less than Australians, but it's still decent.
4. The specialties are pretty much the same everywhere. Australians need rheumatologists and neurologists just as much as Americans do.

Re: Point number 2: You can get a fellowship in the US and depending on the need the hospital may sponsor you. Don't count on it though

Point number 3: You work very long hours in Australia as a registrar but you get paid by the hour and not by a salary

Point number 4: The specialties here have a different scope of practice than
the US. The differences are subtle but they exist. ENT/Head and Neck doctors here at the big hospitals tend to do tracheostomies. General surgeons in the US do it.

 

[raymdc89]

Hello everyone

This issue has only reached me recently, and has gotten me quite concerned -- the whole lack of internship spots for Australian graduates, especially international students currently studying in Australia.

I'm a 2nd year medical student at UTAS, and I am Canadian. I've read quite a lot about the difficulties of returning to Canada or going to the United States, and I've considered staying in Australia -- I don't mind it here.

But after seeing news that I will probably have no internship spot in Australia by the time I graduate (2012), I feel quite devastated. Exams are coming up, and when I'm studying I wonder to myself why I bother, if I can't even practice medicine in the future. It hit me pretty hard. I don't think I'll be able to get PR status either -- I left high school in Canada, didn't do any pre-med/college, and came straight to Australia. I've got no work experience because I've been focusing on studies, getting into med school and working hard. And I have no partner or anything here in Australia so that's not gonna work. I also have no family or relatives here in Australia, although I have some close friends (not sure if that works? I'm guessing not).

My question is whether anyone has information regarding New Zealand. I was told the Australian MBBS is recognized in NZ as well -- will international students with Australian degrees get a better chance applying for internships in NZ?

I had always thought of getting into internal medicine, and specializing further after that. But it seems like I won't go into that path anymore. If I make it back to Canada, it'll probably be some rural GP thing. Or any other country, for that matter, although I can't say for the United States.

So, anyone with info on NZ?

- Ray