going to the usa for medical school..

[mspaic]

have alot of people considered it?

the gpa cutoffs in some of the schools in ontario are redicilous..

i am currently in second year and i think i can pull off a gpa up to 3.7... but that doesnt even seem to be good enough for ontario

i look at some statistics for usa and see that their average accepted applicant had a gpa of about 3.45 ..!

i know that us international students would be at a disadvantage applying from canada, but i still figure we would have a better chance than we do here

what does everyone else think?

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[zizou]

have alot of people considered it?

the gpa cutoffs in some of the schools in ontario are redicilous..

i am currently in second year and i think i can pull off a gpa up to 3.7... but that doesnt even seem to be good enough for ontario

i look at some statistics for usa and see that their average accepted applicant had a gpa of about 3.45 ..!

i know that us international students would be at a disadvantage applying from canada, but i still figure we would have a better chance than we do here

what does everyone else think?

The thing is that there are no official cut-offs (i think) like in canadian school, where if u don't have more than the cut-off, they don't even look at your mcats...
So, I think there are more chances to go to an American Med school with a 3.7 than to an Ontario Med school.

 

[ssc_396]

It is true that many schools in the US have lower GPA / MCAT averages than Canadian ones, but these are usually state schools which do not accept Canadian students.

Many excellent private US schools do take Canadians but these are much more competitive than any Canadian school (6000+ applications for 100-200 spots) and tend to have MCAT and GPA higher than any Canadian school I've seen (MCAT 35-36Q ish, GPA 3.8+).

And, of course, all of these schools cost ~65K US / year and as a Canadian you are not eligible for American loans. Wash U, Penn and Harvard do offer huge tuition rebates (ALL fees in some cases) to outstanding students but these are very difficult to get. So unless you are already wealthy you will be practicing in the US in order to pay back the 150K+ in loans.

Another option in the US is osteopathy, but from what I understand this can lock you into a primary care specialty (which might be what you want).

 

[mspaic]

It is true that many schools in the US have lower GPA / MCAT averages than Canadian ones, but these are usually state schools which do not accept Canadian students.

ok so you're telling me no state schools accept canadians ..

i seriously doubt that

 

[ssc_396]

ok so you're telling me no state schools accept canadians ..

i seriously doubt that

Yes - that is what I am saying. I challenge you to find one which does.

Unless you have a green card - in which case you can apply. But even then, in many cases many state schools and give preference to state residents - in the same way that Canadian schools have provincial restrictions.

I applied to a few this year and had my application bounced because I'm Canadian. But I did get interviews at private schools.

 

[ssc_396]

Further to that - if you want exact numbers for applicants by school see:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/2005school.htm

It seems to me that most of the schools available to Canadians are at least as competitive as Canadian ones. In most cases they get almost double the applicants for the same number of spots. The exception being the osteopathic schools.

Another thing to consider is that even though the GPA might be low for some schools this does not mean it’s easy to get in: eg Stanford. This is one of the most difficult medical schools to be accepted to in the world. Yet their matriculant GPA is ~3.7. I know people who attended ivy league schools, had 4.0 GPAs and 35+ MCATs and were not even offered interviews to Stanford. The reason being that many US schools are after much more than grades. They want people who can do double majors in history and chem while simultaneously training for the Olympics and volunteering 80 hours a week.

The point is, in my opinion, American schools are more competitive than Canadian ones.
I think if you can get into an American school then you also stand a good chance at Canadian ones.

And even if you are accepted in the US the question becomes why do you want to go there given the quality and cost of a Canadian MD? I have interviewed at a few good US schools this year and I have concluded that I even if I’m accepted in the US I will take ANY Canadian school over a top American one. The reason being that I want to do residency and practice in Canada and this is easier to do if you’ve trained at a Canadian school.

 

[mspaic]

The reason being that many US schools are after much more than grades. They want people who can do double majors in history and chem while simultaneously training for the Olympics and volunteering 80 hours a week.

yea mcmaster is alot like that too, that's what frustrates me

so u interviewed to only private us schools?

which ones did u interview to from canada?

 

[ssc_396]

yea mcmaster is alot like that too, that's what frustrates me

so u interviewed to only private us schools?

which ones did u interview to from canada?

I'm in the application process now, and interview season hasn't started yet in Canada. Most schools don't let you know if you have an interview until the end of Jan - mid Feb. The exception is McGill, which has an 'early decision' option. I did have an early decision interview at McGill but am still waiting for the other out of province applicants to interview before I find out about acceptance.

Most American schools interview you Sept-Dec and will tell you if you’ve been accepted by March. So applying to both the US and Canada is a good strategy because you get valuable interview experience and you gain confidence if you get an American acceptance before the Canadian interviews even begin (so you will have an answer for that annoying interview question ‘what will you do if you don’t get in’).

Down side of course is the cost and time required to apply - many of the secondary applications for the US are much more involved than Canadian ones. And fighting with AMCAS over grade coversions etc... is horrible. Plus, I'm finishing a PhD in the UK so each US interview costs me ~£500.

 

[mkmgal]

Can't comment too much on other schools in the states, but I know we have about 3-4 Canadian students in my class 0f 150. (Unfortunately, I don't know their specific situations or citizenship status, but each may have spent some time in the states at some point.) If you search more on the site you will probably find similar posts about Canadians at osteopathic schools. I believe there are quite a few.

Also, I'm sure you can investigate osteopathic schools to decide if that is the direction you want to go, vs MD. I love my school, and I feel like I have received excellent training. DO's have full practice rights in most of the Canadian provinces, most recently Ontario. In the states, DO does not lock you in to primary care. It used to be the trend, but not so much anymore. More and more osteopathic graduates are specializing, either at DO or MD residencies. In fact, in my biased, sheltered group of friends at school, I'm one of the few students going in to primary care. However, specializing CAN be more difficult vs MD, but it depends on the field.

Anyway, hope this info helps. I'd recommend contacting the schools directly to learn about admission as a Canadian. Best of luck!

 

[Jocks]

Hey Mspaic,

Don't let ssc_396 freak you out too much, there are plenty of private schools in the states with MUCH lower gpa requirements than Canada. The downside is you'll need slightly higher MCAT's (low 30's usually). Rosalind-Franklin, NYMC, Saint-Louis, and George Washington are just a few private schools to check out. I'd suggest buying the MSAR if you're interested, it'll list average matriculating gpa's and MCAT score for every american school.
Some State schools also accept canucks: Michigan State and SUNY upstate are just a couple. Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Jocks

 

[ssc_396]

I stand corrected - Michigan state does accept Canadians. Though you are entered as an out-of state resident which is similar to out of province.

But mspaic’s question was 'Is it easier to get into the US than Canada'. And I still believe that as a Canadian applicant it is not. The schools you listed all have acceptance rates from 6-11% - and they are regarded among the less competitive schools. As an in-province applicant in Canada acceptance rates are ~8-25% (ignoring the outlier McMaster).

And as you point out though GPA might be lower – MCAT is usually higher.

HOWEVER – the only thing I can absolutely guarantee is: If you don’t apply you will not get in. If you can afford it and have the time, AMCAS allows you to carpet bomb the entire United States with applications with the click of a mouse. So why not apply everywhere you can? You can start applying in June with AMCAS and in some cases will have an answer by Christmas.

 

[Prag]

I don't think that you can generalize whether or not it is easier to get into a Canadian medical school versus the US...For instance, your chances are reasonable for McGill being a Quebec resident, whereas they are next to none being out of province (Ontario is incredibly difficult to gain acceptance even if one is an in-province applicant)...

From my experiences, the major difference between the US and Canadian schools is that the former looks at one's application more holistically versus the latter...That is, Canadian schools will not even consider your application should you be deficient in one area (eg., at least in the past, Western will reject you if you are below the required score on the writing sample--therefore, if everything else is in line, a P will garner a rejection)....

As well, there are many state schools that accept applications from Canadian students and readily accept them (eg., UCLA, Penn State, SUNY Upstate...)...it's best to verify before applying (though, it is best to apply in June to increase your chances)...

good luck!

I stand corrected - Michigan state does accept Canadians. Though you are entered as an out-of state resident which is similar to out of province.

But mspaic’s question was 'Is it easier to get into the US than Canada'. And I still believe that as a Canadian applicant it is not. The schools you listed all have acceptance rates from 6-11% - and they are regarded among the less competitive schools. As an in-province applicant in Canada acceptance rates are ~8-25% (ignoring the outlier McMaster).

And as you point out though GPA might be lower – MCAT is usually higher.

HOWEVER – the only thing I can absolutely guarantee is: If you don’t apply you will not get in. If you can afford it and have the time, AMCAS allows you to carpet bomb the entire United States with applications with the click of a mouse. So why not apply everywhere you can? You can start applying in June with AMCAS and in some cases will have an answer by Christmas.

 

[Scottish Chap]

ok so you're telling me no state schools accept canadians ..

i seriously doubt that

You are correct. SUNY Upstate (4 enrolled this year) and Penn State are two of several. You will, however, pay the out-of-state/international tuition rate for all four years (> $30K U.S./yr depending on the school).

 

[Scottish Chap]

Yes - that is what I am saying. I challenge you to find one which does.

Unless you have a green card - in which case you can apply. But even then, in many cases many state schools and give preference to state residents - in the same way that Canadian schools have provincial restrictions.

I applied to a few this year and had my application bounced because I'm Canadian. But I did get interviews at private schools.

You don't need a green card. It's harder to get in without it, but nonetheless quite possible. Many Canadians successfully matriculate into U.S. medical schools every year - in part because U.S. medical schools accept Canadian undergraduate degrees as equivalent to their own. If you have an undergrad. degree earned outside of the U.S. or Canada.....you'll see just how difficult it can be (speaking from personal experience).

 

[Scottish Chap]

I'm in the application process now, and interview season hasn't started yet in Canada. Most schools don't let you know if you have an interview until the end of Jan - mid Feb. The exception is McGill, which has an 'early decision' option. I did have an early decision interview at McGill but am still waiting for the other out of province applicants to interview before I find out about acceptance.

Most American schools interview you Sept-Dec and will tell you if you’ve been accepted by March.

Most American schools actually interview from September to March - some even as late as April. Unlike the Canadian application system, it's a massive advantage to apply as early as possible to U.S. schools.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I don't think that you can generalize whether or not it is easier to get into a Canadian medical school versus the US...For instance, your chances are reasonable for McGill being a Quebec resident, whereas they are next to none being out of province (Ontario is incredibly difficult to gain acceptance even if one is an in-province applicant)...

From my experiences, the major difference between the US and Canadian schools is that the former looks at one's application more holistically versus the latter...That is, Canadian schools will not even consider your application should you be deficient in one area (eg., at least in the past, Western will reject you if you are below the required score on the writing sample--therefore, if everything else is in line, a P will garner a rejection)....

As well, there are many state schools that accept applications from Canadian students and readily accept them (eg., UCLA, Penn State, SUNY Upstate...)...it's best to verify before applying (though, it is best to apply in June to increase your chances)...

good luck!

I agree 100% with Prag.

 

[Acherona]

It's my impression that american schools have a much wider variation in difficulty for admission. The canadian educational system is entirely public which I think has the consequence of standardizing the funding and educational quality to some extent. It also seems that canadians are less mobile than americans, tending to stay in their home province for undergrad, perhaps because the tuition is cheaper if they do so (at least in quebec). This tendency seems to percolate up to the graduate level as well (please correct me if I'm wrong). This prevents any one school from being able to suck away the top students from all around the country and becoming insanely competitive like in the US. So I think the top schools in the US are much harder to get into than the top schools in Canada, but the lowest, or unranked schools in the US are considerably easier. According to my own personal calculation the number of medical school spots proportional to the population is essentially the same in Canada and the US so the competitiveness should be comparable (though Canadian doctors make less money so this may make the professon slightly less desirable and therefore less competitive in Canada).
I do know that it is much more difficult to be accepted to an american school as an international student. Even if you get accepted, most schools make you pay all your tuition up front in an escrow account so you have to be ridiculously wealthy in addition to smart

 

[.edu-MD]

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[northcountry]

I'm a Candian Citizen but I've attended US schools since elementary school including college. I have a green card and have had no problems receiving interviews from both public and private US schools. I think the previous posters are right about the difficulty of getting into state schools as a Canadian without a greencard. It's difficult for anyone without state residency to get interview invites to public state schools. I've been on interviews to all four of my state schools, but have only had one interview to a public out-of-state University. Furthermore, the requirements get extrememely more difficult for out of state students. My friend with really good stats got rejected pre-secondary from New Mexico even though he was many standard deviations above their average MCAT and GPA. I met a few Canadian Med-Students at SUNY-Bufallo. I'm just guessing, but I think the closer you are to Canada in the States, the more the schools understand the quality of Canadian students.
Here in the South, it may be more difficult. That being said, I'm dying to go back to Canada for med school and I hope to get my chance. I'm interviewing at Ottawa in March. I have the advantage of having Canadian citizenship with a US greencard. Good luck!