Going solo?

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earboy

pluggin away
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So I'm not finding exactly what I want job wise. Understandably, I may never find what I want. I've got a target city in mind and all I have so far is a super lowball offer. The other people in town either won't respond to me or have told me they're not hiring.

My question is what does it take to go solo? And is it advisable in this current political climate?

I've got no savings. I've got minimal debt (~15K, all from this year of living in CA for the fellowship). I have a 2 yr old and another one on the way. I have good training and a peds fellowship behind me now. And I have good people skills.

How does one start does down this road? I know I need a state medical license, NPI number, and hospital privileges. How do I get hooked up with insurance providers so I can start getting paid? Do I need to secure a loan to buy used equipment, pay for rent, hire an MA, advertise, etc? Is that a hard thing to get?

How do you find a place to work? Do you rent space out from someone when they don't use it? I can't imagine an ENT would want competition in town using their office.

What do you guys think? I just hate settling and feeling like my future is based on someone else's whim.

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What do you consider a super low ball offer? I've seen people accept offers in the low 130-140 to get into an area.

Also consider that some of the reasons why you are getting a super low ball offer may be that there is not enough work for everyone, reimbursement is low because of oversupply and groups are settling for less to get on insurance plans to get patients, overhead/malpractice/etc is high. These are things that you don't think about being a resident or fellow - but when you are in a high malpractice area with an oversupply of peers, your net income is significantly effected.

Have you tried calling hospitals and speaking with the physician recruiter? They can tell you if there is an actual need in the area, and if so, if they can provide assistance for starting up.

Are you looking at being at a Children's Hospital or are you just looking for work in the place that you want to be?
 
What do you consider a super low ball offer? I've seen people accept offers in the low 130-140 to get into an area.

Also consider that some of the reasons why you are getting a super low ball offer may be that there is not enough work for everyone, reimbursement is low because of oversupply and groups are settling for less to get on insurance plans to get patients, overhead/malpractice/etc is high. These are things that you don't think about being a resident or fellow - but when you are in a high malpractice area with an oversupply of peers, your net income is significantly effected.

Have you tried calling hospitals and speaking with the physician recruiter? They can tell you if there is an actual need in the area, and if so, if they can provide assistance for starting up.

Are you looking at being at a Children's Hospital or are you just looking for work in the place that you want to be?
Yes, that was in the range of the offer. But I see what you are saying. It is a saturated market I'm sure but I didn't think to call the hospital recruiters in the area to see what their estimation of need might be.

I'm looking to do it all, not just peds. I've had decent offers from children's hospitals but it's just not in my heart to do only peds.
 
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You have to ask yourself how badly you want to live in a specific place? I was very interested in a specific area when I started my job search. When it was clear there were no jobs it left me with two choices.


1. Go out on my own, not something I really want to do at this stage of my career. Despite what you might think you'll appreciate having a senior partner to run cases by and discuss stuff with. Plus some cases are nice to do with your partner. I do parotids myself but enjoy having a partner join me on thyroids. Just a function of my training and what I feel comfortable with at this point.

2. Join a practice that doesn't really need me. This presents a situation where you get paid crap money and get treated like crap, all to assure you live where you want. That may be worth it to you, but it wasn't to me. What will you do once your income guarantee is up and you haven't established a decent pt base because there isn't one? You'll continue to make poor money. Your SR partners will hoard up the patients and you will get the scraps. If you don't like it some other new grad will move in because they want to live in the "desirable" town.

I elected to take a job an hour and a half from my "desired" area and I have a terrific job, make good money, and have a terrific lifestyle. Just think hard if you would be happy living somewhere else that isn't as saturated.

Good luck. There are so many things that go into making the right decision.
 
So I'm not finding exactly what I want job wise. Understandably, I may never find what I want. I've got a target city in mind and all I have so far is a super lowball offer. The other people in town either won't respond to me or have told me they're not hiring.

My question is what does it take to go solo? And is it advisable in this current political climate? .

I am in my last year of residency and also have gone through looking in a saturated area, then decided on starting up a solo practice in a different area in the same region that has need. I thought I would post some of what I have researched, obviously I haven't had actual business experience, so I would welcome some comments from the more experienced private practice guys. From what I have found: Your available options are pretty much night and day depending on the need in the area. Of course location is key to quality of life. I really like the area I will be going to, but it is not a big city like I was originally considering.

1) offers to join practices - in the current medical climate, it seems like established practices are more leary to take new people on, and certainly to provide substantial income guaruntees. $140K in a saturated area may not be that bad for year 1. It is almost certainly better than you could do in solo practice without help from a hospital. Having a income guaruntee of $140K may be very generous, assuming that is what you are taking home, they are covering your overhead also, and all the support is coming directly out of the pocket(s) of the current partner(s). The reason a practice would do this is so they can eventually have you as a partner to decrease the amount of overhead they pay, and also you would be contributing referrals and support to ancillary services like audiology, hearing aids and allergy that usually turn a profit.

2) hospital support - I wish I did more looking in to this earlier in my job search. You can get income guaruntees from hospitals if there is a need in the area. That can come in the form of helping someone start a solo practice, or support tojoin an established practice. I suspect many of the advertised income guaruntees to join group practices in higher need areas may be involving hospital support. You are not going to be able to get this in saturated areas, for example, non-profit hospitals have to show this type of support is reasonable, relative to need in the area, in order to keep their non-profit status. My advice to anyone exploring options in different areas, is to not only contact practices in the area, but contact the hospital administrators in charge of hiring/recruitment (usually a VP of medical staff) at all of the major hospitals. This will give you an idea of what type of support you can get, and what the need in the area is. A private practice may not be agressively recuiting, but indifferent to taking on someone new, and leary of paying a salary guaruntee. However, if you bring to them support from a hospital they might be thrilled to have someone to help cover overhead.

3) going out on your own - you could obviously do this with or without hospital support in any area regardless of need. In a saturated area this is going to be much more difficult for multiple reasons, but still theoretically possible, I suppose.
a) your balance sheet is going to be much less favorable in a saturated area
- higher rent
- higher malpractice
- lower insurance reimbursement
- slower establishment of referral base
- more competition for good payor mix / lucrative procedures
b) due to (a), getting a medical business loan is going to be harder. These can be pretty easy to get in a high need area, I didn't even look at formulating a business plan and seeking a loan in a saturated environment. It would be interesting if someone has done this.

I found some information from an accoutant from the National Society of Certified Healthcare Business Consultants 2011 Otolaryngolog survery: (all figures per full time employed ENT)

average collections + other income = $935,813
average overhead = $600.393
net income = $335,420

These are average numbers, including solo and multiple physician practices with more efficiency regarding overhead. Imagine a solo practice business plan in a city where rent/taxes/payroll are significantly higher and reimbursement is lower. :(

On top of that you mentioned that you like doing everything. The ENT docs I meeet in saturated areas are fighting tooth and nail for cases initially, and seem to settle in to doing largely tubes/tonsils. That was definately a big factor in moving me away from a big city, b/c I like doing more complicated/challenging cases. I also want to get my foot in the door doing some baloon sinuplasty and cosmetics. You always have to cater to your referring physicians, but I like the idea of making that easier by moving to an area where ENTs are less available.


How does one start does down this road? I know I need a state medical license, NPI number, and hospital privileges. How do I get hooked up with insurance providers so I can start getting paid? Do I need to secure a loan to buy used equipment, pay for rent, hire an MA, advertise, etc? Is that a hard thing to get? .
- I found a detailed checklist from my state medical society outlining in detail the things you need to do 12, 9, 6, 3 mos prior to starting to practice. It is probably different state to state, but I would seek something like that out. First thing you need a state liscence, before you can apply for insurance coverage and privledges. If you are going solo you need to establish a business entity and tax ID#, as well as a buisness plan prior to seeking loans to support your business plan. Finding an accounting firm that is experienced with medical practice managment would be a great resource.

How do you find a place to work? Do you rent space out from someone when they don't use it? I can't imagine an ENT would want competition in town using their office..
see above. If you want to do solo, you would have to either buy an existing practice, or buy or rent office space. Options are pretty vast and variable you can alway make improvements to leased office space to make it in to a medical office. You would have to factor that in to a business plan.

What do you guys think? I just hate settling and feeling like my future is based on someone else's whim..

Again, it totally depends on your location of practice. I think is is smart to consider a solo practice option, if only to put in perspective what you are gaining from joining a practice.
 
I have good training and a peds fellowship behind me now. And I have good people skills.

That will help you get referrals for bread & butter in a more saturated area. Some practices may see it as a threat to make you more attractive than they are to pediatricians and parents.
 
You should think hard if you go on your own what sort of hospital you will be operating out of. I am affiliated with a ~ 125 bed hospital. I am trained to do and feel comfortable with a decent amount of pediatrics. But a number of things make it likely I won't do much more than tubes and tonsils on kids. One is my OR and what equipment we have. A small hospital isn't going to spring for every tool you want to do a case twice a year. The second issue is intra-op and post op care. Your anesthesiologists at a smaller hospital won't be terribly excited for complex pediatric case. And post-operatively you need excellent nursing care to prevent a disaster.

I'm sure you've thought of these things but just thought I'd mention it.

Dr B has some great points. It is interesting how the pediatrons think because you did a pedi fellowship you are somehow better at doing a tonsillectomy or ear tube. I have a partner who is pedi trained and he gets a lot of referrals from the pediatrons. Luckily he is older and doesn't operate any more so he sends it all to us when it needs surgery.
 
Some pretty good info so far in this thread.

In the current medicolegal climate, I would caution you against starting a solo ENT practice in a saturated market. There's already a lot of uncertainty with the new Obamacare regulations and declining reimbursements, and adding onto that the huge learning curve you'll need to learn how to run a practice and the difficulty in generating adequate new patient volume in a saturated market, you'll be setting yourself up for (at the very best) several years of angst before getting your head above water.

I joined a practice in a saturated market just over a year ago and am fortunate to have a really supportive partner. It's hard to get new patients though, and I'm still struggling to earn my keep now (and this is with what you consider a "lowball" salary). My patient volume is growing slowly, and I realize it's only a matter of time before I'll be self-sufficient, but I'd be scared to death if I had to bankroll things on my own. In a saturated market, every PCP already has their favorite ENT that they refer to. It takes a lot of effort to break into those existing referral patterns.

Now, if you do as Pir8 and DrB did and search 1-2 hours away from your desired location, you can find much better opportunities. In a smaller city with no ENT, you'll get busy fast.

I'm also a little curious as to why you did a peds fellowship if you don't want to just do peds. Perhaps you changed your mind mid fellowship?
 
Thanks guys for the info. I've been reading a book called the Medical Entrepreneur by Steve Hacker to get some more info. It's just too daunting of a task in a saturated market without any prior experience. I'd love to do it but I think I need some real world experience and to see how Obamacare plays out.

As for why I did the peds fellowship - it was my backwards way of getting more otology training without doing a 2 yr fellowship. Plus, I have no interest in neurotology. I felt ear surgery was the weakest part of my training. We had 5 otologists on staff and, even so, not-so-great volume. The fellowship has made me a much better otologic surgeon. I can take this training and apply it to adults and kids and be a better ENT overall. i like it all and don't want to give up the adult ENT stuff you'd have to give up in order to be strictly peds. I guess a side benefit is that I've gained an appreciation and skills to deal with specialized pediatric ENT problems not normally dealt with by general ENT's. I never did it for marketability, but I've been told those mommies in the community will look favorably on the ENT who is peds-fellowship trained. So maybe it'll help me get referrals. I don't really know and didn't do a fellowship for that reason.
 
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