Go for medicine or the declining field of optometry?

[Soccerjoe]

I have been wanting to go into optometry for awhile now, but have hit some barriers... It really sounds like optometry is a declining field. I mean, they just keep "uping" the tuition, and it seems that optometrists' salaries won't be going up that much (mainly because of people going to lenscrafters, walmart or just going online for glasses and contacts). I am currently applying to a number of optometry schools and feel like I should get into all of them. I also think that I would be the top (or near the top) of my class.

So - I have been strongly considering practicing medicine. It would put me a year behind, but I would be able to have good job stability and would be able to pay off my school loans.

Could you all tell me what you would do in my shoes? Am I wrong at looking at optometry as a declining profession?

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[KHE]

I have been wanting to go into optometry for awhile now, but have hit some barriers... It really sounds like optometry is a declining field. I mean, they just keep "uping" the tuition, and it seems that optometrists' salaries won't be going up that much (mainly because of people going to lenscrafters, walmart or just going online for glasses and contacts). I am currently applying to a number of optometry schools and feel like I should get into all of them. I also think that I would be the top (or near the top) of my class.

So - I have been strongly considering practicing medicine. It would put me a year behind, but I would be able to have good job stability and would be able to pay off my school loans.

Could you all tell me what you would do in my shoes? Am I wrong at looking at optometry as a declining profession?

If you feel optometry is declining, why would you go for it?

 

[Soccerjoe]

If you feel optometry is declining, why would you go for it?

Well I was asking if it were a declining profession. If it is, then I may switch over to medicine.

 

[Jason K]

Well I was asking if it were a declining profession. If it is, then I may switch over to medicine.

Soccerjoe, take a look at this article and ask yourself how the MD/DO outlook compares to that of an OD.

http://remappingdebate.org/article/warnings-doctor-shortage-go-unheeded

Right now, there are a few hundred ODs retiring each year with about 2000 new additions slated for minting once the new schools are all in full swing. We'll be adding well over 1000 new ODs to an already mega-saturated supply.

I would never tell anyone to go to medical school, not go to optometry school, go dental, whatever, but the numbers are there for you. Medicine is plagued with its own problems, but at the very least, you'll be able to find respectable work, have a lot of options as far as mode of practice, and you'll have a much easier time paying off your loans early.

 

[Judgment Dragon]

Medicine is plagued with its own problems.

What are some of the problems that medicine faces?

 

[KHE]

What are some of the problems that medicine faces?

Same as optometry just from slightly different sources in most cases....

For example, if Medicare or Blue Cross suddenly decides that they are going to slash reimbursements accross the board by 20%, it's too bad, so sad for the doctors. Take it or leave it.

You may say "well, they can just leave it" and yes, they can. But the vast majority of people are not going to pay out of pocket for services that they could have covered somewhere else.

 

[optom123]

I have been wanting to go into optometry for awhile now, but have hit some barriers... It really sounds like optometry is a declining field. I mean, they just keep "uping" the tuition, and it seems that optometrists' salaries won't be going up that much (mainly because of people going to lenscrafters, walmart or just going online for glasses and contacts). I am currently applying to a number of optometry schools and feel like I should get into all of them. I also think that I would be the top (or near the top) of my class.

So - I have been strongly considering practicing medicine. It would put me a year behind, but I would be able to have good job stability and would be able to pay off my school loans.

Could you all tell me what you would do in my shoes? Am I wrong at looking at optometry as a declining profession?

Shadow a physician, and volunteer at a hospital.

Before, I was dead set on medicine, but after shadowing I realized that is not what I wanted to do for 30+ years.

Also, consider the cost of medical school and the duration. In most cases, optometry school will be cheaper and allow you to practice sooner.

Finally, don't let the negativity from certain posters influence your choice. Shadow some ODs and I guarantee your perception will change.

 

[janedoe88]

I have been wanting to go into optometry for awhile now, but have hit some barriers... It really sounds like optometry is a declining field. I mean, they just keep "uping" the tuition, and it seems that optometrists' salaries won't be going up that much (mainly because of people going to lenscrafters, walmart or just going online for glasses and contacts). I am currently applying to a number of optometry schools and feel like I should get into all of them. I also think that I would be the top (or near the top) of my class.

So - I have been strongly considering practicing medicine. It would put me a year behind, but I would be able to have good job stability and would be able to pay off my school loans.

Could you all tell me what you would do in my shoes? Am I wrong at looking at optometry as a declining profession?

If you have above a 3.7 and i think you said you have like a 3.9, I have no idea why you would consider Optometry. To be honest, I have around a 3.0 so there's no way I would get into med school...while i LOVE optometry, I don't have a choice and I think you should consider Med school with your stats. Good luck!

 

[fly10]

If you have above a 3.7 and i think you said you have like a 3.9, I have no idea why you would consider Optometry. To be honest, I have around a 3.0 so there's no way I would get into med school...while i LOVE optometry, I don't have a choice and I think you should consider Med school with your stats. Good luck!

I agree.. I have a 3.1 and am appplying to optometry cause i know i have 0 chance at med school.. my mom is a physician and let me tell you something, you will make soooo much more money then you ever could in optometry (we all know money is motivation) and there is alot more job security.. so if i was you with a 3.7 i would definitely go for MED!!!!!....

FYI. you didn't apply to the same schools as me so im not saying this cause i think it'll open up a seat.. lol

if you're worried about costs, when you're done you'll be able to pay it off in two yrs max (if you're wise with you're money, dont let the loans scare you)

If you have a 3.7 i definitely think you have what it takes to get through MED school..

 

[Shnurek]

let me tell you something, you will make soooo much more money then you ever could in optometry (we all know money is motivation) and there is alot more job security

ehh depends what residency you do, pediatricians make around what optometrists make for example, internal med/family medicine make as much as dentists basically ~140k

If you want to make the big bucks in MED make sure you gun from day 1 and get into some surgical field or dermatology/rads. Anaesthesiology is being outsourced to CRNA's and AA's just like ophthalmology is being taken over by optometry.

There is a lot of uncertainty in the air and honestly if you think you can learn to love teeth, dentistry is the SAFEST bet.

 

[Shnurek]

Could you all tell me what you would do in my shoes? Am I wrong at looking at optometry as a declining profession?

Let me ask you a question. Where would you envision yourself practicing? Where would you like to bring up a family? What kind of environment? urban/suburban/metropolis/rural? And what region of the United States? Would you consider working for the government or the military? Optometry laws HIGHLY vary from state to state and governmental organizations and this could make or break your decision.

 

[optom123]

ehh depends what residency you do, pediatricians make around what optometrists make for example, internal med/family medicine make as much as dentists basically ~140k

If you want to make the big bucks in MED make sure you gun from day 1 and get into some surgical field or dermatology/rads. Anaesthesiology is being outsourced to CRNA's and AA's just like ophthalmology is being taken over by optometry.

There is a lot of uncertainty in the air and honestly if you think you can learn to love teeth, dentistry is the SAFEST bet.

Calm down, champ.

Optometry will never overtake Ophthalmology.

 

[Eyes Only]

One of the factors that no doubt contributes to the number of ODs that are not happy with optometry today is all of those students who choose optometry because they are not competitive for medical programs.

If you really want to be a physician (which is very different than practicing optometry) then you won't be happy when you end up at some commercial optometry job.

Don't go into optometry just because you can't get into medical school. If this is your only motivation, you will have a very disappointing career.

 

[Shnurek]

Calm down, champ.

Optometry will never overtake Ophthalmology.

1) Never say never.
2) I did not say it will.

 

[janedoe88]

One of the factors that no doubt contributes to the number of ODs that are not happy with optometry today is all of those students who choose optometry because they are not competitive for medical programs.

If you really want to be a physician (which is very different than practicing optometry) then you won't be happy when you end up at some commercial optometry job.

Don't go into optometry just because you can't get into medical school. If this is your only motivation, you will have a very disappointing career.

ur missing the point- he can get into med school. And none of us said this was the ONLY reason we chose optometry...

 

[Jason K]

.....just like ophthalmology is being taken over by optometry.

The only people laughing more than I am on this one are the OMDs on this forum. Optometry will never, ever, not in a thousand years, take over ophthalmology. We’re too busy taking over our own profession to worry about overthrowing another. An annoyance?? Yes. A source of frustration because of the collateral damage we’ve caused in their field?? Yes. A threat to overthrow?? Not a chance, dude.

 

[Eyes Only]

ur missing the point- he can get into med school. And none of us said this was the ONLY reason we chose optometry...

No, I'm not missing the point. Several of you gave a response like...go to medicine if you have the GPA. You act like optometry is a substitute for medicine for those too stupid to go to med school. Many OMDs have been using this argument for decades and it has hurt the profession of optometry.

Optometry is nothing like medicine. I know, I've been doing this 25 years.

You've shadowed a handful of ODs. You don't go to the meetings I do on a regular basis and listen to all of the complaining from the younger ODs, especially the ones that couldn't get into medical school and thought optometry was a good substitute.

 

[mjl]

Same as optometry just from slightly different sources in most cases....

For example, if Medicare or Blue Cross suddenly decides that they are going to slash reimbursements accross the board by 20%, it's too bad, so sad for the doctors. Take it or leave it.

You may say "well, they can just leave it" and yes, they can. But the vast majority of people are not going to pay out of pocket for services that they could have covered somewhere else.

Just read this in the newspaper this morning. Look like you called it pretty well!
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...y_QPgo179t8e1wg1QsAwBhUP?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

 

[KHE]

Just read this in the newspaper this morning. Look like you called it pretty well!
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...y_QPgo179t8e1wg1QsAwBhUP?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

That is an opinion piece, not a piece of objective journalism.

I will say that he makes some legitimate points though.

I for one would not mind being paid medicaid rates for my services IF and ONLY IF the claims are easy to process. If I need one staff member to process claims instead of the armada of staff that I have now, then yes....you can pay my practice less and I'll lay off eight people.

 

[shannon804]

The only people laughing more than I am on this one are the OMDs on this forum. Optometry will never, ever, not in a thousand years, take over ophthalmology. We’re too busy taking over our own profession to worry about overthrowing another. An annoyance?? Yes. A source of frustration because of the collateral damage we’ve caused in their field?? Yes. A threat to overthrow?? Not a chance, dude.

Jason K, you are so pessimistic that I groan a little every time I see your annoying avatar on a post because I already know what song you're going to sing. Clearly you're dissatisfied as you spend your entire day lurking and posting on an Internet board, but please stop!!!

 

[Jason K]

Jason K, you are so pessimistic that I groan a little every time I see your annoying avatar on a post because I already know what song you're going to sing. Clearly you're dissatisfied as you spend your entire day lurking and posting on an Internet board, but please stop!!!

Thank you for the "please." As I've told others who don't like the bitter taste of my posts - if you don't like what I have to say - don't read my posts.

Putting your head in the sand will just delay your entry into reality. I was once just like you - all excited and pumped up about the great profession of optometry. The scary thing is, I'm not unusual in my sentiments as a practicing OD. A lot of ODs share my views, they're just not as vocal openly with applicants as I am. I've worked with hundreds of outgoing 4th year interns who all seem to come to the same sad reality at about the same time during their schooling. It's sickening - maybe that's why I'm here.

Behind the sarcasm and general pessimism in my posts is a real message, a message that a few of you will get and understand, but most of you will ignore it. That's ok, you'll come around in a few years when you see things for what they really are and not for what you want them to be.

No one likes negativity, but sometimes it's in line with reality.

 

[M281384]

I think what is important - is to go into the field because of your passion and your specific interests in it. Optometry is unlike medicine and ophthalmology. As such, it is important for one to properly evaluate their interests and goals.

If the primary issue here is being successful, I think this is something that one should be in control given the tools and training such as an optometry degree. Working in less urban communities, one will not only have less saturation related pressure, and also will be able to address the communities that more often than not do not receive adequate eye care/diagnosis.

I hate to obviate further discussions, but I really think they are getting farther from what is important.. that being 1) enjoying what you do and 2) being a fit for the field. I am going into optometry not for the money, not for the lifestyle, but because I truly enjoy the field. As much as people on here try to scare people away from the field, I think having a passion for the field should be enough to be able to support yourself on some at least minimum level while doing what it is that you love. I personally know of OMDs who gross similar to ODs in dense urban communities that are over-saturated with LASIK specialists who try to capitalize on the recent growth in laser eye surgery advertising/propaganda.

 

[DawgOD]

Jason K, you are so pessimistic that I groan a little every time I see your annoying avatar on a post because I already know what song you're going to sing. Clearly you're dissatisfied as you spend your entire day lurking and posting on an Internet board, but please stop!!!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/profile.php?do=ignorelist

use this..

 

[Jonbrout]

No, I'm not missing the point. Several of you gave a response like...go to medicine if you have the GPA. You act like optometry is a substitute for medicine for those too stupid to go to med school. Many OMDs have been using this argument for decades and it has hurt the profession of optometry.

Optometry is nothing like medicine. I know, I've been doing this 25 years.

You've shadowed a handful of ODs. You don't go to the meetings I do on a regular basis and listen to all of the complaining from the younger ODs, especially the ones that couldn't get into medical school and thought optometry was a good substitute.

My thoughts exactly. What the hell are people thinking? Neither is a substitute for the other, regardless of GPA. I think it's horrible that OMDs (or anyone for that matter) would stoop that low to speak of the profession in that way.

Brb, I can't become a teacher..might as well be a school bus driver

 

[OpticalBlackOut]

It's really disheartening to know that a lot of our future colleagues would have chosen medicine if they had a higher GPA. As posters have already mentioned, I can't see how you would be satisfied with your job if you never wanted to enter the field in the first place. The recent falling entering stats are alarming as well...

 

[Shnurek]

Thank you for the "please." As I've told others who don't like the bitter taste of my posts - if you don't like what I have to say - don't read my posts.

Putting your head in the sand will just delay your entry into reality. I was once just like you - all excited and pumped up about the great profession of optometry. The scary thing is, I'm not unusual in my sentiments as a practicing OD. A lot of ODs share my views, they're just not as vocal openly with applicants as I am. I've worked with hundreds of outgoing 4th year interns who all seem to come to the same sad reality at about the same time during their schooling. It's sickening - maybe that's why I'm here.

Behind the sarcasm and general pessimism in my posts is a real message, a message that a few of you will get and understand, but most of you will ignore it. That's ok, you'll come around in a few years when you see things for what they really are and not for what you want them to be.

No one likes negativity, but sometimes it's in line with reality.

Just become one already

lmaoo I really wanted to use that image it was just so funny when I saw it in the DO forum where they were arguing about how the DO isn't as good as the MD. They share our inferiority complex lol

 

[janedoe88]

Just become one already

lmaoo I really wanted to use that image it was just so funny when I saw it in the DO forum where they were arguing about how the DO isn't as good as the MD. They share our inferiority complex lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYCo_fzXjjo&feature=related

This reminded me of Jason K lol

 

[Shnurek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYCo_fzXjjo&feature=related

This reminded me of Jason K lol

lol I wouldn't be surprised if it was him

 

[euphaire]

Mock Jason K all you want. Many of the things he said were true.
You shouldn't believe Jason K or any member on this forum. Go out and shadow 3+ optometrists in different settings (PP vs Big box) and talk to them. That's how I researched about this profession.

 

[Jason K]

Just become one already

A bald man? Why would I want to do that?

 

[optom123]

Just become one already

lmaoo I really wanted to use that image it was just so funny when I saw it in the DO forum where they were arguing about how the DO isn't as good as the MD. They share our inferiority complex lol

lol!!!

 

[shannon804]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/profile.php?do=ignorelist

use this..

Haha, I did.

 

[pinipig523]

I would say that if you have the stats to do MED and if you have ANY inkling of maybe not doing optometry.... I would do med.

I am graduating residency in about 7 months and I just received my contract for the job. I am pretty sure I could've almost been offered a majority of the jobs I applied to (albeit I did not apply to the most competitive of areas i.e. Cali) and the jobs I have found are great and with great pay.

You would enjoy medicine if it's what YOU want to do.

 

[851916518]

You should make a decision, knowing what you know about both fields, based on what you believe you would be happy and proud of doing for the rest of your life. Like you, I could have definitely gone into medicine if I so desired. Since the optometry school I am currently attending has an inter-professional program I know I am no less capable than the medical students, as I consistently score well above their average in our combined courses. However, I had no interest in medicine and saw no reason to go into it just because "I could".
I feel like you're putting optometry and medicine on the same ladder, with optometry on a lower rung than medicine. I would urge you to focus more on your experiences with the two fields, although I know it is difficult to ignore the social and economic differences between the two. Lastly, if you find that you can't stray from the clearly common opinion that optometry is a health field for those who cannot make it into medical school, then you will probably develop regrets later down the line as an optometrist. I hope that you are happy with whatever it is that you decide to do.

 

[M281384]

You should make a decision, knowing what you know about both fields, based on what you believe you would be happy and proud of doing for the rest of your life. Like you, I could have definitely gone into medicine if I so desired. Since the optometry school I am currently attending has an inter-professional program I know I am no less capable than the medical students, as I consistently score well above their average in our combined courses. However, I had no interest in medicine and saw no reason to go into it just because "I could".
I feel like you're putting optometry and medicine on the same ladder, with optometry on a lower rung than medicine. I would urge you to focus more on your experiences with the two fields, although I know it is difficult to ignore the social and economic differences between the two. Lastly, if you find that you can't stray from the clearly common opinion that optometry is a health field for those who cannot make it into medical school, then you will probably develop regrets later down the line as an optometrist. I hope that you are happy with whatever it is that you decide to do.

 

[pinipig523]

2 things you got to look at with your decision of OD vs MD.

1. Tolerance of the work you do, job satisfaction.
2. Money

In MD, you have more choices of what you may end up practicing... This usually means higher probability of finding something you enjoy or something you can work with as your career. In MD, you also have the opportunity to earn more.

Believe me, when the student loans start to kick in... Money helps.

Your decision.

 

[Shnurek]

2 things you got to look at with your decision of OD vs MD.

1. Tolerance of the work you do, job satisfaction.
2. Money

In MD, you have more choices of what you may end up practicing... This usually means higher probability of finding something you enjoy or something you can work with as your career. In MD, you also have the opportunity to earn more.

Believe me, when the student loans start to kick in... Money helps.

Your decision.

Student loans kick in sooner and less interest builds up pursuing optometry over medicine. Also, in general opto schools are cheaper. I'd say that if you strictly did not want to do anything business oriented then yes MD's do make more but OD's have the business side of it with a lot of room to grow. I don't mind saying "one or two" instead of "turn your head and cough". Almost every profession has its monotonous repetition. I personally think LASIK monkeys have it the worst in the eye world. I guess the money makes up for how boring it is.

If you see yourself enjoying optometry then go for it. If you can't then don't do it. Should be simple as that.

 

[thecgrblue]

Student loans kick in sooner and less interest builds up pursuing optometry over medicine. Also, in general opto schools are cheaper. I'd say that if you strictly did not want to do anything business oriented then yes MD's do make more but OD's have the business side of it with a lot of room to grow. I don't mind saying "one or two" instead of "turn your head and cough". Almost every profession has its monotonous repetition. I personally think LASIK monkeys have it the worst in the eye world. I guess the money makes up for how boring it is.

If you see yourself enjoying optometry then go for it. If you can't then don't do it. Should be simple as that.

So true, I had to take the year off for family reasons and have been applying to medical school and when I was looking at the $40k-60k of yearly tuition I realized the $30k/year for the OD program I got in to was not NEARLY as daunting as I first thought.

 

[Shnurek]

So true, I had to take the year off for family reasons and have been applying to medical school and when I was looking at the $40k-60k of yearly tuition I realized the $30k/year for the OD program I got in to was not NEARLY as daunting as I first thought.

Exactly $40k-$60k + living expenses (assuming you don't live with your parents) = ~$300k debt at graduation with an MD/DO.

Then during residency you only get paid enough to subsist (~$50k). Mind you, you are working around 80 hrs/week - this equates to around $12 an hour. During this whole time your loans accrue interest.

After ~3-7 years of residency your loans can really be daunting. Here's a good link: http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/04/real-life-medical-school-debt.html

 

[Jason K]

So true, I had to take the year off for family reasons and have been applying to medical school and when I was looking at the $40k-60k of yearly tuition I realized the $30k/year for the OD program I got in to was not NEARLY as daunting as I first thought.

An MD or DDS is a more expensive degree.....and you get what you pay for. More career options, much higher earning potential on average, and better professional outlook. I'd be running away from medicine if I were 22 again, but I'd be running a lot faster from an OD. Just because it's cheaper doesn't mean it's a better value.

 

[thecgrblue]

What would you be 'running' towards Jason?

 

[pinipig523]

Student loans kick in sooner and less interest builds up pursuing optometry over medicine. Also, in general opto schools are cheaper. I'd say that if you strictly did not want to do anything business oriented then yes MD's do make more but OD's have the business side of it with a lot of room to grow. I don't mind saying "one or two" instead of "turn your head and cough". Almost every profession has its monotonous repetition. I personally think LASIK monkeys have it the worst in the eye world. I guess the money makes up for how boring it is.

If you see yourself enjoying optometry then go for it. If you can't then don't do it. Should be simple as that.

Not true on a few parts.

When I went med school, tuition was not bad at 30K a year. Don't know about now, but I thought that was reasonable.

And MDs have just as much opportunity for business endeavors.

And not all MDs do that "turn your head and cough" bit. You are way over-generalizing. I don't think an OMD does that, for example.

 

[Shnurek]

When I went med school, tuition was not bad at 30K a year. Don't know about now, but I thought that was reasonable.

The present situation is slightly different. How are your loans though? "According to the Association of American Medical Colleges, the median tuition in 2010-2011 was $28,685 at a public institution and $46,899 at a private institution."

Especially now that they yanked all subsidized loans I'm actually quite happy I'm not spending more than 18k a year on my education.

And not all MDs do that "turn your head and cough" bit. You are way over-generalizing. I don't think an OMD does that, for example.

I never explicitly stated that all MD's/DO's do that. OMDs might (to be explicit) say, "Keep your eye still while I shove this needle in your eye!" ahhhh

 

[Shnurek]

Also here is a quote from Visionary, a retinologist, that talks about how many MD's/DO's wish they had a higher material sales side to their practice:

As KHE said, embrace your materials sales. As the SGR cut looms, I'm wishing I had some cash options. Unlike my comprehensive colleagues, who have LASIK, premium IOLs, Botox, cosmetic lid procedures, as well as a good amount of optical revenue, I am at least 80% retina. I'm pretty much dependent on insurance reimbursement. A 27.4% cut would potentially mean ~70% drop in annual income for me, assuming private carriers follow suit (which they usually do), unless my overhead is trimmed dramatically. Scary is the current state of health care.

There's a reason why plastics is the most competitive specialty in Medicine. Anywhere you can get straight cash from the patient/consumer it beats going through middlemen aka insurance companies.

 

[pinipig523]

Also here is a quote from Visionary, a retinologist, that talks about how many MD's/DO's wish they had a higher material sales side to their practice:

There's a reason why plastics is the most competitive specialty in Medicine. Anywhere you can get straight cash from the patient/consumer it beats going through middlemen aka insurance companies.

True. Plastics and derm are the ways to go.

But I'm content with the money I'm going to make in the ER (even without material sales).

 

[pinipig523]

The present situation is slightly different. How are your loans though? "According to the Association of American Medical Colleges, the median tuition in 2010-2011 was $28,685 at a public institution and $46,899 at a private institution."

Especially now that they yanked all subsidized loans I'm actually quite happy I'm not spending more than 18k a year on my education.

I didn't know they yanked all subsidized loans. Dang.

 

[Shnurek]

But I'm content with the money I'm going to make in the ER (even without material sales).

What's the average hourly rate for ER? $150 or so? Very nice I like