Getting through a Research Year, Financially

[sylvester500]

Good evening,

I am a first year medical student currently contemplating a research year at some point. One big reservation I have is the financial situation. The concern is two-fold:

1. Stipends (if even available) here seem to be very low-paying, sometimes bordering on unsustainable. Does anybody know whether it is possible to work a part-time job on the side while in a research year just to obtain a bit of financial security?
2. If I were to work for a qualified organization (likely, considering I would be targeting an academic medical center), could my time spent working here be used in fulfillment of my 120 payments toward PSLF? I believe that as long as I am not full time at a non-qualifying organization, my payments will still count (in lieu of the referenced part time work above).

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[HopelessMS]

If you are able to save some money prior to the research year and invest it in obtaining 100 shares of a low volatile stock (online brokerages no longer charge commissions for purchases or sales of stocks), then you can sell weekly or monthly covered calls (options) that can generate income during the research year.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

For the love of god do not rely on selling covered calls for your sole source of income during a research year. First, how would OP get money to buy substantial amounts of stock anyway as an M1 presumably taking out loans? Next, relying on the stock market to do any one particular thing right now is about as wise as entering a tiger enclosure covered in filet.

OP, the answer is that you get yourself a fellowship or stipend, and if you need to make some extra money get into the tutoring game or Uber during high-income hours. Pretty much any full time research gig worth doing will at least pay you $20K plus health insurance. The good ones will pay more, like $35K plus insurance. A lot of schools support research year students on T32s and there are some minimum requirements for supporting the students while they are on those grants, but inquire about that earlier because there's usually an internal application process.

My actual advice is to try to avoid a research year. Sure, it might sound cool and helpful, but ultimately it's unnecessary unless your goal is matching a top 5 residency in a surgical subspecialty or derm from a mid-tier school. Otherwise, research is a box that you check. If you're really serious about research, take extra time during residency or fellowship. You will get paid more (usually on the PGY scale, so $50-70K), and your work will be more recent/relevant to your career when you go apply for academic jobs. You have more than enough time over M1/M2 + summer to get publications and check the research box. You can even still work on research during M3 and M4, especially M4, which will help for fellowship applications and take pressure off during residency to publish early.

The most painful lesson I learned in my MD/PhD was that research and publishing is about opportunity, not hard work or talent. You get more opportunity higher up in the hierarchy (i.e., as an MD resident/fellow and not as a medical student). Year-for-year, you are much better off doing research later in your career, especially since it likely won't affect your matching chances unless you change fields suddenly in late M3 and need to show initiative.

 

[Lawpy]

The most painful lesson I learned in my MD/PhD was that research and publishing is about opportunity, not hard work or talent. You get more opportunity higher up in the hierarchy (i.e., as an MD resident/fellow and not as a medical student). Year-for-year, you are much better off doing research later in your career, especially since it likely won't affect your matching chances unless you change fields suddenly in late M3 and need to show initiative.

This is unfortunately true

 

[HopelessMS]

I'll admit my advice is not for everyone, and it is highly unconventional.

But it has worked out for me thus far. I used my loan refunds throughout my preclinical years and whatever was leftover after expenses and bought stocks starting with a few shares at first. By doing this during MS1 and MS2, I was able to accumulate 100 shares in a particular dividend stock by end of MS2. My ROI on my portfolio acquired from student loan refunds during the first year ending 2019 was 45%, ending 2020 was 49%, and ending 2021 was 60%.

For the past month from Dec 17, 2021 to present, I have sold covered calls on my 100 shares and have generated $600+ in passive income. It takes about 1 hour per week to research and come up with a strike price to sell monthly calls and to set the limit order or a couple more hours weekly if selling weekly calls (my preferred choice). Additionally, residency application costs as well as moving expenses for residency will be more than covered by selling the shares that have appreciated without having to take out additional loans.

Relatively, the amount of income I have generated from the calls is not much, but it has provided a bit of financial security allowing me to study, and do research, etc. So it can be done, but it is not for everyone I'll stress again.

 

[Lem0nz]

I'll admit my advice is not for everyone, and it is highly unconventional.

But it has worked out for me thus far. I used my loan refunds throughout my preclinical years and whatever was leftover after expenses and bought stocks starting with a few shares at first. By doing this during MS1 and MS2, I was able to accumulate 100 shares in a particular dividend stock by end of MS2. My ROI on my portfolio acquired from student loan refunds during the first year ending 2019 was 45%, ending 2020 was 49%, and ending 2021 was 60%.

For the past month from Dec 17, 2021 to present, I have sold covered calls on my 100 shares and have generated $600+ in passive income. It takes about 1 hour per week to research and come up with a strike price to sell monthly calls and to set the limit order or a couple more hours weekly if selling weekly calls (my preferred choice). Additionally, residency application costs as well as moving expenses for residency will be more than covered by selling the shares that have appreciated without having to take out additional loans.

Relatively, the amount of income I have generated from the calls is not much, but it has provided a bit of financial security allowing me to study, and do research, etc. So it can be done, but it is not for everyone I'll stress again.

No offense, and this rarely needs to be said here, but your advice is super terrible and dumb. You got lucky during a pandemic and an ultra abnormal stock market.

To expect to continue or recreate that luck is quite frankly stupid.

 

[HopelessMS]

No offense taken at all Doctor.

I understand that not everyone on SDN will appreciate a nonconventional POV. I'm sharing what has worked for me to provided OP a different way to possibly generate income while in medical school. An added bonus is that when I do start making attending $$, I will be able to save the fees and commissions financial advisors charge managing a physician's money because I will know how to manage/invest my own money.

 

[Musty Goose]

Most schools allow you to enroll in at least 1 unit so that you're eligible for student loans

 

[sylvester500]

No offense taken at all Doctor.

I understand that not everyone on SDN will appreciate a nonconventional POV. I'm sharing what has worked for me to provided OP a different way to possibly generate income while in medical school. An added bonus is that when I do start making attending $$, I will be able to save the fees and commissions financial advisors charge managing a physician's money because I will know how to manage/invest my own money.

Also, as far as I understand, I am not allowed to use my federal loan money to buy stocks. I looked into using leftover money to throw into a Roth, but that proved to not be allowed. You’re telling me investing in stocks is permissible?

 

[sylvester500]

Most schools allow you to enroll in at least 1 unit so that you're eligible for student loans

Interesting, however, I am not inclined to take out even more loans on top of my extensive stockpile of borrowed money.

 

[sylvester500]

For the love of god do not rely on selling covered calls for your sole source of income during a research year. First, how would OP get money to buy substantial amounts of stock anyway as an M1 presumably taking out loans? Next, relying on the stock market to do any one particular thing right now is about as wise as entering a tiger enclosure covered in filet.

OP, the answer is that you get yourself a fellowship or stipend, and if you need to make some extra money get into the tutoring game or Uber during high-income hours. Pretty much any full time research gig worth doing will at least pay you $20K plus health insurance. The good ones will pay more, like $35K plus insurance. A lot of schools support research year students on T32s and there are some minimum requirements for supporting the students while they are on those grants, but inquire about that earlier because there's usually an internal application process.

My actual advice is to try to avoid a research year. Sure, it might sound cool and helpful, but ultimately it's unnecessary unless your goal is matching a top 5 residency in a surgical subspecialty or derm from a mid-tier school. Otherwise, research is a box that you check. If you're really serious about research, take extra time during residency or fellowship. You will get paid more (usually on the PGY scale, so $50-70K), and your work will be more recent/relevant to your career when you go apply for academic jobs. You have more than enough time over M1/M2 + summer to get publications and check the research box. You can even still work on research during M3 and M4, especially M4, which will help for fellowship applications and take pressure off during residency to publish early.

The most painful lesson I learned in my MD/PhD was that research and publishing is about opportunity, not hard work or talent. You get more opportunity higher up in the hierarchy (i.e., as an MD resident/fellow and not as a medical student). Year-for-year, you are much better off doing research later in your career, especially since it likely won't affect your matching chances unless you change fields suddenly in late M3 and need to show initiative.

Thank you for your advice. I agree, I would like to avoid doing a research year, for both financial and (more importantly) training purposes.

I am interested in neurosurgery match. I go to a mid-tier MD school, but the hospital affiliated with my med school is top notch for neurosurgery. Maybe I work at it through M2/3 and see where I stand then?

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

No offense taken at all Doctor.

I understand that not everyone on SDN will appreciate a nonconventional POV. I'm sharing what has worked for me to provided OP a different way to possibly generate income while in medical school. An added bonus is that when I do start making attending $$, I will be able to save the fees and commissions financial advisors charge managing a physician's money because I will know how to manage/invest my own money.

Nothing has ever demonstrated more clearly that someone doesn't know how to manage/invest money than your posts. You can do whatever you want with your money. More power to you. Don't give this out as advice though. As if we needed more proof this is a bubble when there are millions of people taking this attitude and even doing stuff like this on massive margin.

Also, your strategy, I assume, involves reinvesting your profits such that you can actually build a sizeable portfolio and build up to something substantial, not living purely off of the proceeds. If any med student is drawing down the profits each month to live they are extremely susceptible to even a single bad month. Finally, $600/month isn't enough to live on anyway. Drop the risk and work 4 hours/week doing Uber on Saturday night downtown to make just as much, maybe more.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

Thank you for your advice. I agree, I would like to avoid doing a research year, for both financial and (more importantly) training purposes.

I am interested in neurosurgery match. I go to a mid-tier MD school, but the hospital affiliated with my med school is top notch for neurosurgery. Maybe I work at it through M2/3 and see where I stand then?

Yeah. NSG is one of those specialties that really values research, but again you are early enough on that you can get that research now and not bother with the extra year. It'll be more about connections, evals, letters, step 2, etc... Especially connections.

If you have to do it, it'll be because you change your desired specialty (e.g., take a sudden interest in skin).

 

[HopelessMS]

It's not illegal to use your refund to invest OP.

To each their own. GL to you OP driving your Uber should you go that route. I will let $$ work for me, not the other way around.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

It's not illegal to use your refund to invest OP.

To each their own. GL to you OP driving your Uber should you go that route. I will let $$ work for me, not the other way around.

You do realize that income and investment are separate things, right? Like, you can make money and turn around an invest it. OP can tutor, Uber, start an OnlyFans... anything that makes money without fulltime commitment. The difference is labor vs. risk. It makes more sense for someone without a cushion to rely on labor and build themselves to a point when they can rely on risk. This is the entire concept behind retirement...

No one is discouraging OP from investing. People are discouraging OP from using the stock market like a casino and a source of income simultaneously. There's a time and place for risky investment, and YOLO'ing your student loans is not it. When you're comfortably maxing out a IRA/401K and have some left over as an attending, go nuts. When making rent depends on income from selling covered calls, you have reached peak idiocy.

I mean good luck with the options. I genuinely hope you continue to profit. I just wanted to call you out because, 1) it's terrible advice, and 2) you were clearly just trying to brag about your returns and not give actual advice.

 

[HopelessMS]

If my intent was to brag about my returns, I would have posted it in my initial posting. My returns posting was in response to another's judgment of my advice to OP and to clarify/provide OP an example of my experiences making the decisions I have made.

"Karens" or "Chads" who are so triggered by someone's opinions and believe that their advice are the only one's worth taking and who assume make an "Ass" out of "U" and "Me" not only exist in Tiktoks but on this forum also.

Of note: Since you are giving advice to OP regarding driving a Uber or doing an OnlyFans as examples to make money, if you have never driven a Uber or don't have an OnlyFans page, then you are not giving advice to OP based on your experiences. What does that make you? At least I am using my own experiences in my advice to OP.

 

[CanIBeAnonymous]

c

If you are able to save some money prior to the research year and invest it in obtaining 100 shares of a low volatile stock (online brokerages no longer charge commissions for purchases or sales of stocks), then you can sell weekly or monthly covered calls (options) that can generate income during the research year.

lmao you really thing the premiums from ONE covered call is gonna cover a humans living expenses? we'd all just be living off passive income then

and if he's doing it weekly at a point where it generates actual money they're surely going to be assigned sooner than later

can you make decent money wheeling? sure, but they're gonna need a lot more to start with and then the know-how and time to manage their account. Not fantastic advice my dude

 

[HopelessMS]

Bruh. OP is a MS1 asking for a way to generate income should they need to do a research year. I provided a way for OP to generate income by investing excess funds OP has already admitted in the posts that they have. Instead of putting the money in a savings account that generates 0.05%, OP can start accumulating shares in blue chips like Coke, Verizon, ATT, etc that will provide dividends and also selling covered calls to generate weekly or monthly income. OP can then use the income to accumulate more shares. If by the time OP needs to do the research year and OP has accumulated 200, 300, or more then they can sell more covered calls. The more shares in 100 increments, the more covered calls OP can sell, the more income OP can generate. If assigned, OP can write cash secured puts or repurchase the shares.

Wallstreet is a casino if OP invested in penny stocks. Blue chip stocks that have low volatility are how OP can start generating more of a return from his excess loan reimbursements through call selling. An if OP is not familiar with the market, then take some time in the summer of MS1 to learn.

 

[sylvester500]

Yeah. NSG is one of those specialties that really values research, but again you are early enough on that you can get that research now and not bother with the extra year. It'll be more about connections, evals, letters, step 2, etc... Especially connections.

If you have to do it, it'll be because you change your desired specialty (e.g., take a sudden interest in skin).

I appreciate your advice a lot. NSG is really the only competitive specialty I'm interested in (ruled out ortho, pretty much urology). Definitely no derm in my future. I'm not dead-set, because I don't have a ton of experience with the field. But, my logic is I might as well keep my options open in the future by preparing now, and if I find during my surgery rotation that I don't like it (or sometime before then more likely), then I can pivot to EM or IM without too much complication.

Guess I'll just keep cranking and aim to make it happen without the research year, if that's the pathway I decide is best for me. Thanks for letting me spit ball.

 

[CanIBeAnonymous]

Bruh. OP is a MS1 asking for a way to generate income should they need to do a research year. I provided a way for OP to generate income by investing excess funds OP has already admitted in the posts that they have. Instead of putting the money in a savings account that generates 0.05%, OP can start accumulating shares in blue chips like Coke, Verizon, ATT, etc that will provide dividends and also selling covered calls to generate weekly or monthly income. OP can then use the income to accumulate more shares. If by the time OP needs to do the research year and OP has accumulated 200, 300, or more then they can sell more covered calls. The more shares in 100 increments, the more covered calls OP can sell, the more income OP can generate. If assigned, OP can write cash secured puts or repurchase the shares.

Wallstreet is a casino if OP invested in penny stocks. Blue chip stocks that have low volatility are how OP can start generating more of a return from his excess loan reimbursements through call selling. An if OP is not familiar with the market, then take some time in the summer of MS1 to learn.

that's great and all, but clearly OP doesn't have the funds to do so NOR can they handle the risk. Theyre asking for ways to have money to LIVE with. One bad week and the money they're reliant on to live with is gone. Also, as I believe another poster stated, this strategy to build this up requires reinvesting returns to build up a substantial enough portfolio to generate passive income at the level the OP can live off of.


I've been wheeling NVDA and MSFT for about a year now, trust I get it, and I've made amazing returns as a result but the risk was there, and this wasn't to generate income. And the market has been stupid.


We get what you're saying, we know how it works, it's just stupid advice for this scenario

 

[sylvester500]

Does

that's great and all, but clearly OP doesn't have the funds to do so NOR can they handle the risk. Theyre asking for ways to have money to LIVE with. One bad week and the money they're reliant on to live with is gone. Also, as I believe another poster stated, this strategy to build this up requires reinvesting returns to build up a substantial enough portfolio to generate passive income at the level the OP can live off of.


I've been wheeling NVDA and MSFT for about a year now, trust I get it, and I've made amazing returns as a result but the risk was there, and this wasn't to generate income. And the market has been stupid.


We get what you're saying, we know how it works, it's just stupid advice for this scenario

Does anything change if I tell the world that I do in fact have about 20k in liquidity right now parked in "high APY" savings account (which was once 2.5% pre-pandemic, but now hovering at a cool 0.5%).

I like the security of having this cash at all times, especially for the purposes of post-med school transitioning back into the work force. So, I don't want to get too playful with it. I even thought about just funding a Roth for the next 3 years with it (which is obviously opposite the purpose we're discussing here...)

Sorry, I just had to stir it up...

 

[CanIBeAnonymous]

Does

Does anything change if I tell the world that I do in fact have about 20k in liquidity right now parked in "high APY" savings account (which was once 2.5% pre-pandemic, but now hovering at a cool 0.5%).

I like the security of having this cash at all times, especially for the purposes of post-med school transitioning back into the work force. So, I don't want to get too playful with it. I even thought about just funding a Roth for the next 3 years with it (which is obviously opposite the purpose we're discussing here...)

Sorry, I just had to stir it up...

Personally if I had 20k, didn't want to actively manage or risk it, wasn't planning on using it for years, but wanted to make decent returns on it I'd buy SPY and just hold it for however long.

Though you should understand capital gains taxes before doing anything.

 

[HopelessMS]

My advice with $20k is to first determine what your risk tolerance is, then if you decide you can tolerate it, read up on buying blue chip stocks, read up/research YouTube on selling covered calls for beginners (look up Jake Broe on YouTube and his playlist on options for beginners), and learn as much as you can. Then sign up for a "play" account with a brokerage where they give you a fake $100k account that you can use to learn how to make trades with shares and options. The trades on this account is live but you use the fake money to make the trades. When you feel comfortable enough, then you can open a real account.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

No offense, and this rarely needs to be said here, but your advice is super terrible and dumb. You got lucky during a pandemic and an ultra abnormal stock market.

To expect to continue or recreate that luck is quite frankly stupid.

This, this and this again.

 

[UnlimitedTraction]

My advice with $20k is to first determine what your risk tolerance is, then if you decide you can tolerate it, read up on buying blue chip stocks, read up/research YouTube on selling covered calls for beginners (look up Jake Broe on YouTube and his playlist on options for beginners), and learn as much as you can. Then sign up for a "play" account with a brokerage where they give you a fake $100k account that you can use to learn how to make trades with shares and options. The trades on this account is live but you use the fake money to make the trades. When you feel comfortable enough, then you can open a real account.

Dang man I invested all my loan money into "blue chip" stocks and lost a bunch of it over the past month due to the market decline. Now I can't pay my rent. What would you suggest now?

 

[HopelessMS]

OMG you poor thing! I'm so sorry your CARS didn't continue beyond the MCAT and you lack the understanding that my advice was based on OP using their excess funds i.e. basics like rent and food are already paid for to generate income. I suggest you drop out of medschool immediately because I Wal-Mart is hiring starting at $15 per hour now.

 

[snooper]

Back to the question: Try to see what fellowships/stipends/grants your medical school offers internally for a research year; look at research funding from government sources, e.g. NIH IRTA fellowships or from professional neuro/surgery associations. Would you want to stay at your institution or go somewhere else?

The advantage of getting research funded )other than the obvious) is that it will also look good if you were able to get fellowship support when you apply to what's a very competitive residency.

Working during a research year, unless it's perhaps some tutoring, would take up too much time.

 

[Lawpy]

This thread reeks of really bad financial advice

 

[UnlimitedTraction]

OMG you poor thing! I'm so sorry your CARS didn't continue beyond the MCAT and you lack the understanding that my advice was based on OP using their excess funds i.e. basics like rent and food are already paid for to generate income. I suggest you drop out of medschool immediately because I Wal-Mart is hiring starting at $15 per hour now.

So you do suggest finding a reliable source of income like an hourly job to generate income? You should've started with that.

 

[HopelessMS]

SMH. Either English is not your first language or you need to up your CARs skills because you lack a basic understanding of something called sarcasm.

 

[CanIBeAnonymous]

SMH. Either English is not your first language or you need to up your CARs skills because you lack a basic understanding of something called sarcasm.

Using CARS as an insult not only once but twice is pretty cringe my dude.


To OP - As others have said, try to make sure your research year is decently stipend. Outside of that, you can dip into the 20k savings you've said you have so you don't need to take out high-interest loans.

If the investment advice sparked something in you, you'll have downtime to learn about smart investment strategies during med school but don't just take any advice from SDN and don't try and quickly generate passive income with your savings. You can learn now so that you can adequately invest intelligently during residency or beyond. Pick up White Coat Investor, check out Investopedia, etc.

 

[Bwesternn]

SMH. Either English is not your first language or you need to up your CARs skills because you lack a basic understanding of something called sarcasm.

You need to take an LOA from this thread too...

 

[HopelessMS]

Yes, I will stop because I am well aware that SDN can bring out the worse in us.

 

[Lawpy]

SMH. Either English is not your first language or you need to up your CARs skills because you lack a basic understanding of something called sarcasm.

What an absurd and an insulting comment dude. There are lots of ESLs who can destroy the CARS because that section just needs to be approached in a certain way consistently. There are many many native English speakers who regularly bomb that section

Dissing people, especially med students, by focusing on the MCAT that literally no one cares about is completely inane and uncalled for

 

[Bwesternn]

Yes, I will stop because I am well aware that SDN can bring out the worse in ME.

FTFY.

 

[HopelessMS]

Something about stones and glass houses bro...

“Frankly put, it looks like you don't want to be a doctor. If that's the case, please give up your A so the next accomplished, suitable, and grateful applicant can achieve their dream of becoming a physician.”

“Ah yes the neuroticism is high in this one.”

 

[Bwesternn]

Something about stones and glass houses bro...

“Frankly put, it looks like you don't want to be a doctor. If that's the case, please give up your A so the next accomplished, suitable, and grateful applicant can achieve their dream of becoming a physician.”

“Ah yes the neuroticism is high in this one.”

Oh that isn’t the worst of me - if this is what you’re trying to point out as hypocritical. But even if it was, this doesn’t compare to joining a forum requesting consolation, then belittling Walmart workers and non-native English speakers.

It’s clear you lack self-awareness. It’s a useful skill that you should try to learn during your LOA. Best of luck!

 

[sylvester500]

I really was not trying to bring this much chaos into the internet world.

I should NOT have stirred the pot, and I am sorry. Thanks to everyone for the advice!

 

[HopelessMS]

I expressed contrition not "requesting consolation." And I have been on this thread since the beginning. You decided to let your itchy fingers do the walking and express your opinion 33 posts into this thread, and have accused me of "lack[ing] self-awareness" which you have every right to do. However, since I have already expressed contrition, I am not going to retort and pass judgment on you like you have me. How's that for someone who "lack self-awareness."

OP, my last post on this thread, promise.

 

[oldman]

Good evening,

I am a first year medical student currently contemplating a research year at some point. One big reservation I have is the financial situation. The concern is two-fold:

1. Stipends (if even available) here seem to be very low-paying, sometimes bordering on unsustainable. Does anybody know whether it is possible to work a part-time job on the side while in a research year just to obtain a bit of financial security?
2. If I were to work for a qualified organization (likely, considering I would be targeting an academic medical center), could my time spent working here be used in fulfillment of my 120 payments toward PSLF? I believe that as long as I am not full time at a non-qualifying organization, my payments will still count (in lieu of the referenced part time work above).

As a medical student I got research time in using the summer breaks that were available and during clinical years finding time at night. Admittedly for the clinical rotation time I was doing chart review research projects where I could gather data after hours. This was also during the age of paper charts, so I had to drive to different hospital medical record departments and pull charts. I did get published for the summer break one and the work I did during clinical rotation resulted in a podium presentation at the national conference of the specialty I was interested in. So you can get some work done that can be productive outside of a research year. For a dedicated research year I did it during residency since the specialty I was interested in was actually a fellowship training, so that worked well to have my residency research time gear up for application for fellowship. I also got paid for that time at the rate of a resident. My medical school did have a lot of scholarships for various projects, so it wouldn't hurt to talk to some of the deans about money that might be available. For instance my medical school had a department for international rotations with funding to pay for my plane ticket + housing while I was overseas.