Getting in without research?

[baseballjunkie]

I'm wondering if there are people without research experience in either OMFS or Perio residency that didn't do research during dental school. I am going to a school with great summer research opportunities, but research really doesn't interest me that well. I would much rather be involved with student leadership. I feel like I would only be doing research as a resume builder for a residency application. I have research experience before dental school, but I'm just wondering how common it is to get in without dental research?

Thanks...

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[shloopy]

Great question. I'm also curious to know how common it is to get into a spec program directly out of d-school. With the increasing # of grads doing AEGD or GPR, I've heard spec programs favor applicants w/these advanced education qualifications, unless you're a) Ivy League w/great grades or b) at the very tippy top of your class and aced the boards.

 

[Mohab]

Research is not a requirement, and some people do get into competitive programs without having done any in dental school. I was like you in that I didn't find any research projects that really interested me and didn't want to do it for the sake of building up my CV. As for getting in right out of dental school... most of the applicants that I interviewed with were in dental school, and everyone that I kept in touch with matched. Also, most people in my school applying to residencies got in.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the NBDE's are converting to Pass/Fail. So where in the past you could have depended on stellar board scores and class rank to get you in, these won't set you apart in the future (especially since some dental schools are P/F too). Once this happens, research, leadership positions, and extracurriculars will be even more important to set you apart.

 

[baseballjunkie]

I want to be involved with ASDA, student leadership, and community service while in school, as this is more in my interests. I am just wondering if not having research will hinder my chances...

 

[hotrod0917]

Just my 2 cents:
I wouldn't say 'no' to research before you've been fully exposed/ explored it. You may be pleasantly surprised what can be considered research, as not all research is bench work and PCRs. Furthermore, the people you meet and the relationship you build on those research could be infinitely more valuable than the extra padding on your CV.
Same could be said of the leadership positions. You may be more interested in leadership now, but can quickly realize the commitment required is daunting, and balancing academics and extracurricular activities can lead you to even a tougher situation when you apply.
Main thing is that you do what you are passionate about, take things one step at a time, work hard and humbly, and whatever happens realize that you'll be a better person for it.

 

[dentalWorks]

Research is not a requirement, and some people do get into competitive programs without having done any in dental school. I was like you in that I didn't find any research projects that really interested me and didn't want to do it for the sake of building up my CV. As for getting in right out of dental school... most of the applicants that I interviewed with were in dental school, and everyone that I kept in touch with matched. Also, most people in my school applying to residencies got in.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the NBDE's are converting to Pass/Fail. So where in the past you could have depended on stellar board scores and class rank to get you in, these won't set you apart in the future (especially since some dental schools are P/F too). Once this happens, research, leadership positions, and extracurriculars will be even more important to set you apart.

really? when is this going to take place?

you said many of your friends whom you kept in touch with matched into thier resdidencies, are we talking ortho and OMFS? Cause I thought it was VERY hard to land either one

 

[armorshell]

really? when is this going to take place?

It's supposed to happen Jan 1, 2011 if I recall correctly. They just changed the rules this year so that you can no longer retake if you got a passing grade on the first attempt.

 

[OMFS ORIF]

I'm wondering if there are people without research experience in either OMFS or Perio residency that didn't do research during dental school. I am going to a school with great summer research opportunities, but research really doesn't interest me that well. I would much rather be involved with student leadership. I feel like I would only be doing research as a resume builder for a residency application. I have research experience before dental school, but I'm just wondering how common it is to get in without dental research?

Thanks...

I didn't do any research and I matched into OMFS. I think it will look better on your resume but not a deal breaker unless you are a real borderline of a candidate. If research doesn't interest you like you said, don't do it. There might be a couple of schools that wouldn't grant you an interview because you don't have research so apply to a bunch of schools if you can. I didn't know which 4 yr programs were good when I applied so I applied to a bunch and I am glad I did. I got to see some great programs that I probably wouldn't have applied to had I limited myself to only 10 programs or so. By the way, none of my interviews asked me about lack of research. Best of luck!!!

 

[dentalWorks]

It's supposed to happen Jan 1, 2011 if I recall correctly. They just changed the rules this year so that you can no longer retake if you got a passing grade on the first attempt.

so when this takes effect, NBDE is no longer going to be a standard for measuring people against each other. Its just going to be extracur activities / class ranking / research / etc.

I dunno if I should be happy or sad about this, I tend to be a good board test taker

 

[Mohab]

you said many of your friends whom you kept in touch with matched into thier resdidencies, are we talking ortho and OMFS? Cause I thought it was VERY hard to land either one

I meant the people that I met on interviews for OMS. Most were dental students. At Kentucky we had 2 of 2 match at our #1 for OMS. For Ortho, we had 3 of 4 match, 2 of them at their #1. For Pedo, we had 3 of 3 match, two at their #1 (I don't know about the third person). Bottom line is, you don't need a year of post-grad to match for dental specialties.

 

[shloopy]

I meant the people that I met on interviews for OMS. Most were dental students. At Kentucky we had 2 of 2 match at our #1 for OMS. For Ortho, we had 3 of 4 match, 2 of them at their #1. For Pedo, we had 3 of 3 match, two at their #1 (I don't know about the third person). Bottom line is, you don't need a year of post-grad to match for dental specialties.

Good to know. Thanks for the feedback, Mohab.

 

[srb711]

Here's a quote from the joints newsletter published in april 2009 (see link):

http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/j..._spring_09.pdf

Pass/Fail Scoring:

The Joint Commission remains committed to the
implementation of pass/fail scoring for Part I and Part II as
well as for the Dental Hygiene examination. However, the
Joint Commission approved of a delay in the transition
from a reporting of numerical scores to a pass/fail
reporting system from January 1, 2010 to January 1, 2012.
The Joint Commission specified that individuals taking
the examination before January 1, 2012 will retain their
numerical scores.
The decision to delay implementation was made to allow
key stakeholders more time to prepare for the transition,
especially state boards that may need to amend their
practice acts.

Does anyone know if this is still correct? (Just wanting to make sure that it's not Jan 1, 2011)

 

[smogdodger]

...research really doesn't interest me that well. I would much rather be involved with student leadership...

I don't really see student leadership as a substitute for research experience. Someone might say, 'can I just get a great board score instead of doing externships'. Well, you can do whatever you feel like doing but if you want to become the most well-rounded candidate possible, it is wise to get some research experience. Sure, you may not enjoy it and it may not be necessity to get in at some programs, but isn't it wise to sharpen your qualifications in every regard? Also, its not bad to do some research and still explain that you didn't like it. Some residencies like to see someone who can work hard through things they don't enjoy... like taking call q3.

 

[shloopy]

Here's a quote from the joints newsletter published in april 2009 (see link):

http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/j..._spring_09.pdf

Pass/Fail Scoring:

The Joint Commission remains committed to the
implementation of pass/fail scoring for Part I and Part II as
well as for the Dental Hygiene examination. However, the
Joint Commission approved of a delay in the transition
from a reporting of numerical scores to a pass/fail
reporting system from January 1, 2010 to January 1, 2012.
The Joint Commission specified that individuals taking
the examination before January 1, 2012 will retain their
numerical scores.
The decision to delay implementation was made to allow
key stakeholders more time to prepare for the transition,
especially state boards that may need to amend their
practice acts.

Does anyone know if this is still correct? (Just wanting to make sure that it's not Jan 1, 2011)

So, assuming it is correct... there will be some people graduating in 2014 who have a numerical score, and some in the same class with a "Pass," depending on when they choose (or are required by their school) to take the Board? Don't some schools/students take after yr. 1, and some take either during or after yr. 2?

 

[Ninja9]

So, assuming it is correct... there will be some people graduating in 2014 who have a numerical score, and some in the same class with a "Pass," depending on when they choose (or are required by their school) to take the Board? Don't some schools/students take after yr. 1, and some take either during or after yr. 2?

Yep. Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I will be at one of the few schools that has boards after first year, and am wondering how they will compare students from the 2014 class when a small portion has a numerical score, and all the others just have "PASS".

 

[srb711]

Yep. Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I will be at one of the few schools that has boards after first year, and am wondering how they will compare students from the 2014 class when a small portion has a numerical score, and all the others just have "PASS"

Same here, but just barely... My school will take boards in December of 2nd year. I think it would be an advantage if you have a numerical score (considering you do well) but not necessarily a disadvantage if you don't since your school mandates when you take the boards.

 

[peerless218]

What about schools like UCSF and UCLA, will they still look heavily upon the research component even for their specialty programs?