Getting a masters for GPA requirement for PA school

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prepod2016

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so basically, my GPA is SO LOW that there is no way that I can take enough credits to raise it to the minimum to most PA schools, unless I dedicated years upon years of getting straight A's. if I get a degree in Biomedical Sciences (with very hard sciences) and graduate with an extremely high GPA (3.8-4.0), will any schools give me a chance for this "reinvention" and bypass the GPA requirement? I also have thousands upon thousands of hours of clinical experience in a variety of healthcare settings with very good letters of recommendation. I am not sure how this would affect my chances. Does anyone have any insight?

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I think the answer would be program specific. You may want to reach out to a few programs and see if they have an info session or if they do meetings with faculty/staff for interested students to learn more about the program.
 
Thank you! Does anyone know if I could get a list of programs that do this??
 
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If you go back and do a post bacc program and get good grades then the programs will be able to see it. Many applicants do this. Program will not waive a GPA requirement and you must still get the minimum required grades in you prerequisite classes. if you retake classes, both grades will be reported.
 
If you go back and do a post bacc program and get good grades then the programs will be able to see it. Many applicants do this. Program will not waive a GPA requirement and you must still get the minimum required grades in you prerequisite classes. if you retake classes, both grades will be reported.
thank you, i understood this. however, i have done some research on PA programs and some schools do not have a required minimum. i've even found some programs that explicitly say that their GPA requirements would be "waived" if one attained a masters degree. i was simply asking if anyone knew about a "list" of any kind that contained these types of PA schools.
 
I offer this insight as someone who had a lower GPA back in the day and wanted to get into PA school. My GPA was hovering above 3.0 for both science and cumulative, and I was really shocked to get interviews, but I did. Not a ton, but I was pleased with it because I figured that application cycle would be a "test cycle" for me to use to learn from for the next application cycle. What I found was that getting a clinical lab science bachelors degree, in addition to the biological science undergrad bachelors degree I already had was helpful in adding a bunch of really good grades to my science GPA, and by extension, my overall cumulative (but my GPA really wasn't fully in the tank like you say yours is). A clinical laboratory science degree also gave me a good paying job at the end of it, which a biomedical sciences degree wouldn't have. Biomedical science degrees are money makers for the for profit schools that play on the hopes of struggling students who want to end up as a provider... mostly pre PA's. They aren't cheap, and there isn't any certainty to it. I honestly wouldn't throw more money at something that will "maybe" help you. At this point, I'd want some certainty. Besides, how do you know you won't struggle in a biomed masters program as well? I understand the frustration and desperation, but don't throw good money after bad by looking around for all the schools that might be impacted by your proposed turnaround. Trust me, those same schools will still have oodles of good candidates applying for their seats, and it would be hard for them to turn those folks down. In fact, they won't turn them down. Most programs have some sort of points system that will ensure that students that did well in undergrad will rise to the top.

Just the other day I looked at a local PA program's stats on applicants and those that were able to gain acceptance and matriculate. The number of applicants had doubled in about 5 years to close to 1000 applicants for just over 60 seats. The odds were difficult 5 years ago when there was only around 500, so imagine how it would be now. Assuming that of that 1000 applicants, half of them are terrible and have no business applying, that still leaves 500 sharp folks throwing their hat in the ring. But its my belief that poor candidates are actually the minority of PA school applicants. The application process is tedious enough to drive away folks applying on a whim. What I am ultimately saying is that the overall picture for PA school is that its competitive enough across the board that any school that would be willing to take a look at a poorer candidate is still going to be inundated with enough quality candidates that the candidate that struggled academically isn't truly a consideration.

Keep in mind, schools that will allow risky candidates to apply will make more money off the applicant pool each cycle than a program that only wants to take money from folks with GPA's above 3.0. Schools that charge $100 for students to apply there will make $10,000 more for each 100 additional students they convince have a chance at getting in to their program. If I'm a dean of a PA program, heck yeah... I'd have the admissions secretary tell whomever calls that they will consider anyone who applies, regardless of GPA.

I know that sounds discouraging, but I'm trying to save you a lot of time, money, and frustration. Go for a sure thing. Become a nurse, then a nurse practitioner. If your GPA really is in the tank, then you will appreciate how pursuing nursing will seem like it has more favorable conditions than the powerball-lottery-type odds you are relying on to get you into PA school. Honestly, what you are hoping for is truly something that will require the stars to align to make happen for you if you want to become a PA.

Using the money and time you would spend on that throwaway degree towards even a for profit nursing school with no waitlist would be a far, far better use of your energies. Then spend $30k on top of that and work while you go to NP school. Say you find a program that will make you a nurse in just over a year, and it costs $100k. Then you go to NP school right out of that for $30k. Thats $130k, which is as much as a typical out of state or private PA program. And you didn't have to pay Barry or Nova University a boatload for their worthless biomedical masters degree just to "hope" that a PA school takes a look at you. If they don't look at you... what do you do then? The next year it will be even harder to get in.

But thats just one person's opinion. If I was playing with someone else's money... money that I had to pay back... I wouldn't mess around. At this point, I'd want a sure thing.
 
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I offer this insight as someone who had a lower GPA back in the day and wanted to get into PA school. My GPA was hovering above 3.0 for both science and cumulative, and I was really shocked to get interviews, but I did. Not a ton, but I was pleased with it because I figured that application cycle would be a "test cycle" for me to use to learn from for the next application cycle. What I found was that getting a clinical lab science bachelors degree, in addition to the biological science undergrad bachelors degree I already had was helpful in adding a bunch of really good grades to my science GPA, and by extension, my overall cumulative (but my GPA really wasn't fully in the tank like you say yours is). A clinical laboratory science degree also gave me a good paying job at the end of it, which a biomedical sciences degree wouldn't have. Biomedical science degrees are money makers for the for profit schools that play on the hopes of struggling students who want to end up as a provider... mostly pre PA's. They aren't cheap, and there isn't any certainty to it. I honestly wouldn't throw more money at something that will "maybe" help you. At this point, I'd want some certainty. Besides, how do you know you won't struggle in a biomed masters program as well? I understand the frustration and desperation, but don't throw good money after bad by looking around for all the schools that might be impacted by your proposed turnaround. Trust me, those same schools will still have oodles of good candidates applying for their seats, and it would be hard for them to turn those folks down. In fact, they won't turn them down. Most programs have some sort of points system that will ensure that students that did well in undergrad will rise to the top.

Just the other day I looked at a local PA program's stats on applicants and those that were able to gain acceptance and matriculate. The number of applicants had doubled in about 5 years to close to 1000 applicants for just over 60 seats. The odds were difficult 5 years ago when there was only around 500, so imagine how it would be now. Assuming that of that 1000 applicants, half of them are terrible and have no business applying, that still leaves 500 sharp folks throwing their hat in the ring. But its my belief that poor candidates are actually the minority of PA school applicants. The application process is tedious enough to drive away folks applying on a whim. What I am ultimately saying is that the overall picture for PA school is that its competitive enough across the board that any school that would be willing to take a look at a poorer candidate is still going to be inundated with enough quality candidates that the candidate that struggled academically isn't truly a consideration.

Keep in mind, schools that will allow risky candidates to apply will make more money off the applicant pool each cycle than a program that only wants to take money from folks with GPA's above 3.0. Schools that charge $100 for students to apply there will make $10,000 more for each 100 additional students they convince have a chance at getting in to their program. If I'm a dean of a PA program, heck yeah... I'd have the admissions secretary tell whomever calls that they will consider anyone who applies, regardless of GPA.

I know that sounds discouraging, but I'm trying to save you a lot of time, money, and frustration. Go for a sure thing. Become a nurse, then a nurse practitioner. If your GPA really is in the tank, then you will appreciate how pursuing nursing will seem like it has more favorable conditions than the powerball-lottery-type odds you are relying on to get you into PA school. Honestly, what you are hoping for is truly something that will require the stars to align to make happen for you if you want to become a PA.

Using the money and time you would spend on that throwaway degree towards even a for profit nursing school with no waitlist would be a far, far better use of your energies. Then spend $30k on top of that and work while you go to NP school. Say you find a program that will make you a nurse in just over a year, and it costs $100k. Then you go to NP school right out of that for $30k. Thats $130k, which is as much as a typical out of state or private PA program. And you didn't have to pay Barry or Nova University a boatload for their worthless biomedical masters degree just to "hope" that a PA school takes a look at you. If they don't look at you... what do you do then? The next year it will be even harder to get in.

But thats just one person's opinion. If I was playing with someone else's money... money that I had to pay back... I wouldn't mess around. At this point, I'd want a sure thing.
Hey there. First of all, thanks for taking the time to reply to my question and I really appreciate that. It was interesting to see another persons perspective.

My original plan was to matriculate into DO schools, but I have recently discovered physician assistant programs and was interested in learning more. Based off some things that you mentioned in your post, it seems as if I have a better chance at matriculating into one of these schools than PA programs.

Once again, thanks for your time and energy in your response.
 
I think it would be easier to get into DO schools under your plan. I'm not current on how the DO programs do things, but I remember hearing that there are provisions for retakes that allow for replacement of a poor grade rather than averaging the two attempts. They also might be amenable to looking really hard at a post bach degree. I guess you could also look into Caribbean programs and see how they roll as well. Its natural to think that PA school would be more permissive than it really is. The fact is that in a way, they are more willing to take folks that are "all in" in terms of the sciences and pre PA coursework beyond the prereqs. I know plenty of folks that got picked up by PA programs with no health care experience whatsoever, as well as not being as steeped in the sciences as pre med students. However, programs really want to see grades that indicate that someone can pass academic muster.

The problem you might have getting into DO school is doing well enough on the MCAT without appropriate preparation. That exam covers a lot of material.... physics, ochem, gen chem, biology. If you bombed your undergrad, you'll have to find a way to be fluent in those courses.
 
I think it would be easier to get into DO schools under your plan. I'm not current on how the DO programs do things, but I remember hearing that there are provisions for retakes that allow for replacement of a poor grade rather than averaging the two attempts. They also might be amenable to looking really hard at a post bach degree. I guess you could also look into Caribbean programs and see how they roll as well. Its natural to think that PA school would be more permissive than it really is. The fact is that in a way, they are more willing to take folks that are "all in" in terms of the sciences and pre PA coursework beyond the prereqs. I know plenty of folks that got picked up by PA programs with no health care experience whatsoever, as well as not being as steeped in the sciences as pre med students. However, programs really want to see grades that indicate that someone can pass academic muster.

The problem you might have getting into DO school is doing well enough on the MCAT without appropriate preparation. That exam covers a lot of material.... physics, ochem, gen chem, biology. If you bombed your undergrad, you'll have to find a way to be fluent in those courses.
They did away with that retake rule this year. But some osteopathic schools reward reinvention. I realize it will be an uphill battle for me in either profession.

Caribbean programs are a bad idea, per my research.

Again, thanks for your insight.
 
Wow... That's going to really change things for a lot of folks. It's a good idea though. The idea of grade forgiveness was giving a lot of folks false hope, as well.

Why not do podiatry like your screen name suggests? They can do well quite well... better than most PAs. They are probably more attainable for a lot of struggling students with degrees in hand than even NP. If you dismiss it because "respect" is something you crave, keep in mind that even a lot of MDs and DOs don't respect each other. Decent human beings among them won't care what you do. Why worry about what the remainder think of your porofession? They don't have to pay your bills.
 
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Wow... That's going to really change things for a lot of folks. It's a good idea though. The idea of grade forgiveness was giving a lot of folks false hope, as well.

Why not do podiatry like your screen name suggests? They can do well quite well... better than most PAs. They are probably more attainable for a lot of struggling students with degrees in hand than even NP. If you dismiss it because "respect" is something you crave, keep in mind that even a lot of MDs and DOs don't respect each other. Decent human beings among them won't care what you do. Why worry about what the remainder think of your porofession? They don't have to pay your bills.
im still considering it. im shadowing a podiatrist next week as a matter of fact. i have lots of questions that i hope he can answer
 
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If I was struggling as a student, but had a desire to be a physician, I'd for sure consider podiatry vs the massive uphill struggle to become a physician. The same thing for folks dreaming of PA school. PA school is almost as difficult of a climb as medical school to get into, and if DO school is getting rid of grade replacement, then there really is no hope of medical school for a lot of folks. And for PA's, life is going to be complicated by more PA programs opening, and flooding the market with grads, not to mention the number of NP's hitting the market as well.

Pods do better than PA's and NP's salary wise according to BLS. Downside is that they compete with orthopedic surgeons in many aspects as far as surgeries, and with midlevel providers like PA's and NP's when it comes to many procedures and treatments that are non surgical. But Pods that do surgeries are still the better paid ones out there, so that shows that there is an existing demand for their services since ortho's haven't kicked them out of the OR. The downside to me is that school is very expensive, and they still train as long as physicians (so its still a long route if time is a concern). They aren't a field that the military utilizes either, so you wouldn't be able to have that option. I think they do qualify for national health service corp grants, but it might be pretty competitive. Overall, though, they are considered to be outside of the formal medical community in a lot of ways. The downside to that is that in many ways they are still subject to many requirements that the medical community has to follow, and this is a problem in terms of reimbursement and practice management. Frankly, the landscape seems a bit scary due to the fact that many pods are set up well to work in a fee for service landscape, when reimbursement is changing to more comprehensive health indicators. I'm just not sure how well pods will fit into the future. There is overhead that must be maintained to be compliant with regulations for healthcare providers, and that's a lot of expense for independent providers. I also don't think it will be easy for pods to band together to pool resources to offset those expenses. The other option is banding together with bigger entities like hospital systems. I think there is more benefit to those entities sticking with physicians and midlevels than opening up to throwing money at pods to come work with them.

Overally, I think its a decent route for folks that are shut out of med school, PA school, and dental school because of grades, but still have the dream in them to be called "Dr.", but I certainly would talk to a lot of folks and hit the pod portion of the forums pretty hard before I dove in.
 
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If I was struggling as a student, but had a desire to be a physician, I'd for sure consider podiatry vs the massive uphill struggle to become a physician. The same thing for folks dreaming of PA school. PA school is almost as difficult of a climb as medical school to get into, and if DO school is getting rid of grade replacement, then there really is no hope of medical school for a lot of folks. And for PA's, life is going to be complicated by more PA programs opening, and flooding the market with grads, not to mention the number of NP's hitting the market as well.

Pods do better than PA's and NP's salary wise according to BLS. Downside is that they compete with orthopedic surgeons in many aspects as far as surgeries, and with midlevel providers like PA's and NP's when it comes to many procedures and treatments that are non surgical. But Pods that do surgeries are still the better paid ones out there, so that shows that there is an existing demand for their services since ortho's haven't kicked them out of the OR. The downside to me is that school is very expensive, and they still train as long as physicians (so its still a long route if time is a concern). They aren't a field that the military utilizes either, so you wouldn't be able to have that option. I think they do qualify for national health service corp grants, but it might be pretty competitive. Overall, though, they are considered to be outside of the formal medical community in a lot of ways. The downside to that is that in many ways they are still subject to many requirements that the medical community has to follow, and this is a problem in terms of reimbursement and practice management. Frankly, the landscape seems a bit scary due to the fact that many pods are set up well to work in a fee for service landscape, when reimbursement is changing to more comprehensive health indicators. I'm just not sure how well pods will fit into the future. There is overhead that must be maintained to be compliant with regulations for healthcare providers, and that's a lot of expense for independent providers. I also don't think it will be easy for pods to band together to pool resources to offset those expenses. The other option is banding together with bigger entities like hospital systems. I think there is more benefit to those entities sticking with physicians and midlevels than opening up to throwing money at pods to come work with them.

Overally, I think its a decent route for folks that are shut out of med school, PA school, and dental school because of grades, but still have the dream in them to be called "Dr.", but I certainly would talk to a lot of folks and hit the pod portion of the forums pretty hard before I dove in.


Read your post, im starting Podiatry school at Temple this fall. And am also an NP. What's your questions on podiatry?
 
I don't have any podiatry questions.
 
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thanks again for your insight pamac. does anyone else have input?
 
I am a pre PA student who has applied to PA school 2 times already and have not gotten an interview. My overall GPA is a 3.5 and my science GPA is a 3.1. Speaking to schools, they want to see my science gpa a little higher. My question is, would it be a good idea to take extra science classes at a community college to raise my science GPA? Or should I just go for a post bacc?
 
A post back is a ton of time and a ton of money. I’d try the sciences at the communit college before I’d do any post back unless it’s a clinical lab sciences degree. Those are one year programs, they add a ton of science, and there’s a job waiting for you at the other end where you make at least $60k. Read the previous posts again. There’s a roadmap there.
 
Or more appropriately a treasure map.
 
If I was struggling as a student, but had a desire to be a physician, I'd for sure consider podiatry vs the massive uphill struggle to become a physician. The same thing for folks dreaming of PA school. PA school is almost as difficult of a climb as medical school to get into, and if DO school is getting rid of grade replacement, then there really is no hope of medical school for a lot of folks. And for PA's, life is going to be complicated by more PA programs opening, and flooding the market with grads, not to mention the number of NP's hitting the market as well.

Pods do better than PA's and NP's salary wise according to BLS. Downside is that they compete with orthopedic surgeons in many aspects as far as surgeries, and with midlevel providers like PA's and NP's when it comes to many procedures and treatments that are non surgical. But Pods that do surgeries are still the better paid ones out there, so that shows that there is an existing demand for their services since ortho's haven't kicked them out of the OR. The downside to me is that school is very expensive, and they still train as long as physicians (so its still a long route if time is a concern). They aren't a field that the military utilizes either, so you wouldn't be able to have that option. I think they do qualify for national health service corp grants, but it might be pretty competitive. Overall, though, they are considered to be outside of the formal medical community in a lot of ways. The downside to that is that in many ways they are still subject to many requirements that the medical community has to follow, and this is a problem in terms of reimbursement and practice management. Frankly, the landscape seems a bit scary due to the fact that many pods are set up well to work in a fee for service landscape, when reimbursement is changing to more comprehensive health indicators. I'm just not sure how well pods will fit into the future. There is overhead that must be maintained to be compliant with regulations for healthcare providers, and that's a lot of expense for independent providers. I also don't think it will be easy for pods to band together to pool resources to offset those expenses. The other option is banding together with bigger entities like hospital systems. I think there is more benefit to those entities sticking with physicians and midlevels than opening up to throwing money at pods to come work with them.

Overally, I think its a decent route for folks that are shut out of med school, PA school, and dental school because of grades, but still have the dream in them to be called "Dr.", but I certainly would talk to a lot of folks and hit the pod portion of the forums pretty hard before I dove in.

1. A podiatrist IS a physician.
2. While it may be easier to get into a PA program, the depth and breadth of Podiatry school is similar to medical school (a friend of mine left pod school to do med school) and so it would be more difficult than PA school for sure.
 
Sigh.... its clear you didn't even read the post you quoted, but I'll go ahead and cover some things.

Podiatrists, by their own admission, are "podiatric physicians" or "doctors of podiatric medicine". They aren't a specialty within the realm of traditional medicine as we know it, but are their own offshoot... that's why there is a distinction. I guess we could argue about semantics, and maybe I should have used the terms allopathic/osteopathic physician to distinguish between podiatric physicians and their counterparts within the traditional medical community, but Ill leave it to the AACPM to explain their take on what podiatrists should be called: Becoming a Podiatric Physician - The American Association of Colleges of Podiatric Medicine (AACPM)

If Pods were physicians in every sense of the word as we have come to understand them to be, they wouldn't have the distinctions I highlighted in the post you quoted. There really isn't anything wrong with the way podiatry is set up, and it shouldn't be considered a disparagement, but its not like allopathic or osteopathic medical students do the residency match and move to a career in podiatry, nor vice versa. Pod's are distinct, they have their own schools and their own name... like dentists.... AKA the physicians of the teeth and gums, right?

1. A podiatrist IS a physician.
2. While it may be easier to get into a PA program, the depth and breadth of Podiatry school is similar to medical school (a friend of mine left pod school to do med school) and so it would be more difficult than PA school for sure.

I think you mistyped. Its not easier to get into a PA program. To get into a Pod program, you basically need a pulse. Podiatry is betrayed as everyone's distant backup plan by the willingness of schools like Barry and Temple allowing applicants to be evaluated for acceptance to podiatry school based on their DAT (Dental Admissions Test). Medical schools don't allow that....

But, I do hear that the curriculum is designed to be similar to medical school. I think that difficulty of the program might be relative, given that the matriculate pool has lower standards than PA schools do to the lower entrance standards.

Ultimately, you cited my post when it had nothing to do with the points you made. I was talking about the challenges posed to Pods in areas such as practice environment, reimbursement, utilization, etc. I also didn't speak to issues regarding how rigorous I though pod school would be (I hear its difficult from people who went through it... then again, folks who probably couldn't get into medical school), but I did speak to difficulty of getting in to PA school or med school by comparison.
 
Hello,

I am a current student looking to apply to PA school this coming spring 2018. I have a sGPA of about 3.4 and a cGPA of 3.01. The science GPA is because of me re-taking courses I received a C in. I have about 7 schools I plan to apply to. I also have about 1,000 or more HCE hours and have leadership experience in public health where I have hosted and organized different events for my community of low income, opioid addicted, the list goes on. I have also volunteered and exhausted my shadowing hours at the hospital I used to work at, with shadowing both physicians and PAs. Currently I am a medical assistant for an Ophthalmologist and just from this job I have about 800 hours right now. Do you think there is any chance of me getting into PA school? I am well aware of how difficult it is, and will be at least trying out the process of applying.

Any advice helps!
 
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