Georgetown SMP 2021-22

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med-or-bust

med-or-bust

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JustGlassin said:
Current SMP student with a 3.92 GPA, awarded 5k merit scholarship for SMP, 3.45 uGPA, very good ECs, 4-year division I athlete, 515 MCAT, great interview (interviewer ended with "Gtown would be lucky to have you") aaannndddd nothing.

I just want to provide a sobering reality check for any future SMPs in this thread with the idea "if I just do really well, then I'll get in." I mistakingly held this idea and it has left me feeling very disappointed. Sometimes, it just doesn't work out for reasons that are beyond our grasp.

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret doing the SMP - I learned a lot, and know that I am now VERY well prepared to start med school in the fall. It was a silly expectation to have, and I want to make sure others don't come into the SMP with the same. Then again, I think this mode of thinking drove me to do very well in the program, so there is certainly a benefit to thinking this way. Plus, I got into med school, so the program did what was promised.

Feel free to reach out with any questions about my experience in the SMP. Best of luck to all y'all.
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Hi! Was this GTOWN SMP that you attended? Did you matriculate into your SMP School of Medicine?
 
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JustGlassin said:
Yes, I'm in Georgetown's SMP. No, I did not get into Georgetown SOM.
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Thanks for responding. I am thinking about doing the SMP but I looking for honest reviews about it. Outside of working hard, which I have no problems with that. How are the lecture and student supports in preparing for a test? How is the grading scale. It is individualized for each professor or just across the board. Did most people do well?
 
JustGlassin said:
Current SMP student with a 3.92 GPA, awarded 5k merit scholarship for SMP, 3.45 uGPA, very good ECs, 4-year division I athlete, 515 MCAT, great interview (interviewer ended with "Gtown would be lucky to have you") aaannndddd nothing.

I just want to provide a sobering reality check for any future SMPs in this thread with the idea "if I just do really well, then I'll get in." I mistakingly held this idea and it has left me feeling very disappointed. Sometimes, it just doesn't work out for reasons that are beyond our grasp.

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret doing the SMP - I learned a lot, and know that I am now VERY well prepared to start med school in the fall. It was a silly expectation to have, and I want to make sure others don't come into the SMP with the same. Then again, I think this mode of thinking drove me to do very well in the program, so there is certainly a benefit to thinking this way. Plus, I got into med school, so the program did what was promised.

Feel free to reach out with any questions about my experience in the SMP. Best of luck to all y'all.
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Thanks for this - do you have any sense of what it was that prevented you from getting in?
 
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hockeyduderr said:
Thanks for responding. I am thinking about doing the SMP but I looking for honest reviews about it. Outside of working hard, which I have no problems with that. How are the lecture and student supports in preparing for a test? How is the grading scale. It is individualized for each professor or just across the board. Did most people do well?
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8 of your 14 classes are "med courses" wherein your grades are based on the normal curve of the M1s grades. The other 6 classes are grad courses that are graded similarly to what you experienced in undergrad.

And to be honest, I do not know how most people did.
 
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JustGlassin said:
Current SMP student with a 3.92 GPA, awarded 5k merit scholarship for SMP, 3.45 uGPA, very good ECs, 4-year division I athlete, 515 MCAT, great interview (interviewer ended with "Gtown would be lucky to have you") aaannndddd nothing.

I just want to provide a sobering reality check for any future SMPs in this thread with the idea "if I just do really well, then I'll get in." I mistakingly held this idea and it has left me feeling very disappointed. Sometimes, it just doesn't work out for reasons that are beyond our grasp.

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret doing the SMP - I learned a lot, and know that I am now VERY well prepared to start med school in the fall. It was a silly expectation to have, and I want to make sure others don't come into the SMP with the same. Then again, I think this mode of thinking drove me to do very well in the program, so there is certainly a benefit to thinking this way. Plus, I got into med school, so the program did what was promised.

Feel free to reach out with any questions about my experience in the SMP. Best of luck to all y'all.
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Sucks, but I'm glad you got in somewhere. Why did you do an SMP with a 3.45? You could've been accepted to a lot of schools with that GPA and saved 80-90k.
 
hockeyduderr said:
Hi! Congratulations. Did you have to interview for the SMP at Gtown? Do you mind sharing your stats?
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Hey, sorry it took so long! no interviews for all applicants.

cGPA: 3.38
sGPA: 3.3
MCAT: 503, but retaking before program starts. I was really surprised I got the acceptance, but I feel like i have a pretty rounded out application besides the ****ty stats. I also did let them know that I would be retesting. I just didn't expect to hear anything back till I had reported my score to them. I would be weary of starting a SMP with a poor MCAT tbh.
 
sofahill23k said:
Hey, sorry it took so long! no interviews for all applicants.

cGPA: 3.38
sGPA: 3.3
MCAT: 503, but retaking before program starts. I was really surprised I got the acceptance, but I feel like i have a pretty rounded out application besides the ****ty stats. I also did let them know that I would be retesting. I just didn't expect to hear anything back till I had reported my score to them. I would be weary of starting a SMP with a poor MCAT tbh.
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Thanks! No problem at all. I know everyone is busy. I am still waiting to receive my scores from my June exams. This was my first time testing and I am hoping I get a good score. My gpa is lower, but I have an upward trend since Junior Year. How many students are in the program? Do you know anything about their grading scale? Any information would be helpful. I am thinking about them of Tuffs and Ichan Mt.Sinai in New York as well as Rutgers. I have those acceptance already.
 
SMP alum, current GUSoM M2. Ask me questions, I can try to help you out. I just wanted to reiterate what @JustGlassin said in that there really isn't any rhyme or reason as to why some people get into GUSoM and some don't. I have so many stories of people with excellent uGPAs, MCATs, SMP GPAs that didn't get in and people with poor uGPAs, MCATs, but decent SMP GPAs that did get in. I know people who had little to no clinical experience get in. I think the best advice that I got from an SMP alum/GUSoM acceptee that was one of my mentors during the SMP is that you need to offer something to GUSoM that will make it better. For me, I was an older applicant that had another career while I was trying to get into medical school. The SMP was literally my last ditch effort to get in and it worked. The stats for my SMP class were 200 students, we don't know how many they interviewed but we guessed it was somewhere between 70-100, and 35 were accepted. To answer @hockeyduderr grades were largely based off of your final exam in each block. You have 4 blocks during the program that run about 7-8 weeks, then an intersession week between Fall blocks and Spring blocks. You can earn extra points during each block by doing simple assignments, quizzes, etc. but most of the points come from the exams. You need to beat the M1 class average to do well. Usually, the average was in the 80s. If you earned between 88-90% of all the points for the block, you ended up with an A/A- usually. I think biochem was lower, an 85% earned you an A-. My SMP GPA was a 3.81, my uGPA was like a 2.65. I did a post-bacc before the SMP and earned a 3.79. I had a lot of experience in the hospital (>10,000 hours) and some in volunteering (~500 hours). I also had 4 publications with clinical research and my MCATs were 28M, 27, 513. When I was offered an interview, I spent a LOT of time practicing with my classmates and mentors. They helped me out immensely. I had interviewed 3x in the past at my state med school and didn't have anyone to really help me. I had applied to 24 med schools at the beginning of the SMP and GUSoM was my only II and acceptance. I also have a serious misdemeanor on my record.
 
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DraxxxThemSklounst said:
SMP alum, current GUSoM M2. Ask me questions, I can try to help you out. I just wanted to reiterate what @JustGlassin said in that there really isn't any rhyme or reason as to why some people get into GUSoM and some don't. I have so many stories of people with excellent uGPAs, MCATs, SMP GPAs that didn't get in and people with poor uGPAs, MCATs, but decent SMP GPAs that did get in. I know people who had little to no clinical experience get in. I think the best advice that I got from an SMP alum/GUSoM acceptee that was one of my mentors during the SMP is that you need to offer something to GUSoM that will make it better. For me, I was an older applicant that had another career while I was trying to get into medical school. The SMP was literally my last ditch effort to get in and it worked. The stats for my SMP class were 200 students, we don't know how many they interviewed but we guessed it was somewhere between 70-100, and 35 were accepted. To answer @hockeyduderr grades were largely based off of your final exam in each block. You have 4 blocks during the program that run about 7-8 weeks, then an intersession week between Fall blocks and Spring blocks. You can earn extra points during each block by doing simple assignments, quizzes, etc. but most of the points come from the exams. You need to beat the M1 class average to do well. Usually, the average was in the 80s. If you earned between 88-90% of all the points for the block, you ended up with an A/A- usually. I think biochem was lower, an 85% earned you an A-. My SMP GPA was a 3.81, my uGPA was like a 2.65. I did a post-bacc before the SMP and earned a 3.79. I had a lot of experience in the hospital (>10,000 hours) and some in volunteering (~500 hours). I also had 4 publications with clinical research and my MCATs were 28M, 27, 513. When I was offered an interview, I spent a LOT of time practicing with my classmates and mentors. They helped me out immensely. I had interviewed 3x in the past at my state med school and didn't have anyone to really help me. I had applied to 24 med schools at the beginning of the SMP and GUSoM was my only II and acceptance. I also have a serious misdemeanor on my record.
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Wow! This is super helpful. I glean that relationships and LOR are probably a big part of their program. The grading scale seems comparable to the others that I am considering so I can cross that off as a factor to consider. How did your prepare for exams? Were there those gotcha questions of exams? Or Pretty straightforward if you have studied and prepared well. Did you use group studying alongside individual studying or was there no rapport like that among students? Also, how were the professor's support? Is it mainly TA's that you have to try to make friends with in order for them to grade you well? These are some things that I wish I knew when I made my undergrad decision and I do not want a repeat of that. Thanks again for offering this insight.
 
@hockeyduderr If I would speculate what makes the GU SMP standout over other programs is that it is the oldest of its kind. There is a network that you can't fathom until you are in it and it goes years after, following you through your career. This program is tough but not impossible. Having that shared experience with others forms a permanent bond. I don't know if the LOR they write you is all that important. It basically just states how you are doing in the program from a grades standpoint and they write in other things you request that is from prior experiences, etc. You get a 30 minute meeting with your assigned letter writer and then they write you a letter. My guess is that letters from people who really know you will be much better but this is all speculation.

I'm kind of unique in that I prepared for exams in a strange way. The school has a service called MNTS (Medical Note Taking Service) where M1s are hired to write a note-set for each lecture. Some are amazing, others are not. But you have access to 3 years of MNTS (current year + two prior years). What I would do usually is just watch the recorded lecture (I hated being in class as I got too distracted by other students and I like pausing/rewinding so I can fully grasp a concept). I would also watch at 1.5x speed but because I would rewind so much I probably saved no time. Then I would read through the MNTS set and highlight or make notes with my iPad. If I felt the MNTS were missing key things, I would check the previous years' MNTS and combine what I felt was adequate. Eventually you would know who to trust as a MNTS writer and who to stay away from. I believed in the '3 Pass Rule.' Watching lecture and reading MNTS 2x before an exam would usually suffice for me. Others would make Anki cards but I felt that was too time consuming. I would also pull an all nighter before each exam, reading through the MNTS a last time before the exam. This way it was fresh in my mind going into the exam. It was taxing but the way I looked at it was we are all going to be doctors someday and taking care of people, sometimes with little to no sleep. Since there was no one's life in my hands, this should be easy. Usually around 6-7am I would be extremely sluggish but after that I was fine. Then I would take the exam and be amped up afterwards and wouldn't sleep until later that afternoon. When I would wake up I was pretty sluggish but then started it again slowly and built again to the next exam. The exams were on Mondays and Fridays so you would have 3 days between the first two exams and just the weekend between the second and third exam. It worked pretty well for me though. You have to find what works for you early on and stick to it. Don't get cocky either. Now is not the time to experiment. I got cocky after doing well first block and pulled back a bit in second block and got a B or B+ in Immunology which was my only B in the med school classes.

There were always some gotcha questions on the exams but not many. Usually it would hone in on one small detail in the lecture that was overlooked in the MNTS. It wasn't worth my time to stress over those points as there were very few but I had a roommate that would watch video lectures and transcribe them. Then he would make Anki cards from them. He spent basically all day at the library and did well in the program. He wasn't accepted to GUSoM (or any other medical school as far as I know) so don't think perfection = acceptance. He was also very arrogant and confident in his intelligence which isn't always well received. Be humble, work hard, and help others. It's that simple. However, there was another person who was extremely hard working and very humble, to the point that he came off timid and that was also not well received with his interviewers. He wasn't accepted to an American medical school but he is currently attending a medical school across seas. So there is a balance.

I did not use group studying as I got too distracted. I mostly just studied in my room in the evenings. I would go to the gym to play sports or run, I would go eat out with a few of my friends, go to the grocery store for snacks, etc. I wasn't so tightly wound up that I made studying my sole purpose. In fact, if I would've done that, I probably would have gone insane and burnt out. I found what worked for me and stuck to that. Some of my classmates studied together and had study groups. Everyone just kind of did their thing and found their group. Some also slacked-off and did poorly in the program. Some groups partied a lot and there was drama. But I was one of the older students so I found other older students and we just kind of chilled. I felt like the professors were supportive but honestly I didn't bother them much. I would just use their lectures as my bible and if I didn't understand something I would research it on the internet or chalk it up to something that was beyond my level of comprehension. There are going to be somethings that you will have to look at a few times to fully grasp. Rather than bother the lecturers with my questions, I would just cross my fingers that it would click and it usually did.

I don't recall any TAs in this program so no. Also, this isn't a game where you can befriend a professor and you'll be accepted to GUSoM. I knew of two people who tried to do this and they both were not accepted to GUSoM. Like I said before, just work hard and use your resources. For me, I heavily relied on a few of my classmates to keep me sane and bounce ideas off of and my two M1/SMP alumni mentors. I credit one of my roommates (and now very good friend) and my two mentors with preparing me for my interview and I owe a large part of my acceptance to GUSoM to them.
 
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DraxxxThemSklounst said:
@hockeyduderr If I would speculate what makes the GU SMP standout over other programs is that it is the oldest of its kind. There is a network that you can't fathom until you are in it and it goes years after, following you through your career. This program is tough but not impossible. Having that shared experience with others forms a permanent bond. I don't know if the LOR they write you is all that important. It basically just states how you are doing in the program from a grades standpoint and they write in other things you request that is from prior experiences, etc. You get a 30 minute meeting with your assigned letter writer and then they write you a letter. My guess is that letters from people who really know you will be much better but this is all speculation.

I'm kind of unique in that I prepared for exams in a strange way. The school has a service called MNTS (Medical Note Taking Service) where M1s are hired to write a note-set for each lecture. Some are amazing, others are not. But you have access to 3 years of MNTS (current year + two prior years). What I would do usually is just watch the recorded lecture (I hated being in class as I got too distracted by other students and I like pausing/rewinding so I can fully grasp a concept). I would also watch at 1.5x speed but because I would rewind so much I probably saved no time. Then I would read through the MNTS set and highlight or make notes with my iPad. If I felt the MNTS were missing key things, I would check the previous years' MNTS and combine what I felt was adequate. Eventually you would know who to trust as a MNTS writer and who to stay away from. I believed in the '3 Pass Rule.' Watching lecture and reading MNTS 2x before an exam would usually suffice for me. Others would make Anki cards but I felt that was too time consuming. I would also pull an all nighter before each exam, reading through the MNTS a last time before the exam. This way it was fresh in my mind going into the exam. It was taxing but the way I looked at it was we are all going to be doctors someday and taking care of people, sometimes with little to no sleep. Since there was no one's life in my hands, this should be easy. Usually around 6-7am I would be extremely sluggish but after that I was fine. Then I would take the exam and be amped up afterwards and wouldn't sleep until later that afternoon. When I would wake up I was pretty sluggish but then started it again slowly and built again to the next exam. The exams were on Mondays and Fridays so you would have 3 days between the first two exams and just the weekend between the second and third exam. It worked pretty well for me though. You have to find what works for you early on and stick to it. Don't get cocky either. Now is not the time to experiment. I got cocky after doing well first block and pulled back a bit in second block and got a B or B+ in Immunology which was my only B in the med school classes.

There were always some gotcha questions on the exams but not many. Usually it would hone in on one small detail in the lecture that was overlooked in the MNTS. It wasn't worth my time to stress over those points as there were very few but I had a roommate that would watch video lectures and transcribe them. Then he would make Anki cards from them. He spent basically all day at the library and did well in the program. He wasn't accepted to GUSoM (or any other medical school as far as I know) so don't think perfection = acceptance. He was also very arrogant and confident in his intelligence which isn't always well received. Be humble, work hard, and help others. It's that simple. However, there was another person who was extremely hard working and very humble, to the point that he came off timid and that was also not well received with his interviewers. He wasn't accepted to an American medical school but he is currently attending a medical school across seas. So there is a balance.

I did not use group studying as I got too distracted. I mostly just studied in my room in the evenings. I would go to the gym to play sports or run, I would go eat out with a few of my friends, go to the grocery store for snacks, etc. I wasn't so tightly wound up that I made studying my sole purpose. In fact, if I would've done that, I probably would have gone insane and burnt out. I found what worked for me and stuck to that. Some of my classmates studied together and had study groups. Everyone just kind of did their thing and found their group. Some also slacked-off and did poorly in the program. Some groups partied a lot and there was drama. But I was one of the older students so I found other older students and we just kind of chilled. I felt like the professors were supportive but honestly I didn't bother them much. I would just use their lectures as my bible and if I didn't understand something I would research it on the internet or chalk it up to something that was beyond my level of comprehension. There are going to be somethings that you will have to look at a few times to fully grasp. Rather than bother the lecturers with my questions, I would just cross my fingers that it would click and it usually did.

I don't recall any TAs in this program so no. Also, this isn't a game where you can befriend a professor and you'll be accepted to GUSoM. I knew of two people who tried to do this and they both were not accepted to GUSoM. Like I said before, just work hard and use your resources. For me, I heavily relied on a few of my classmates to keep me sane and bounce ideas off of and my two M1/SMP alumni mentors. I credit one of my roommates (and now very good friend) and my two mentors with preparing me for my interview and I owe a large part of my acceptance to GUSoM to them.
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This is detailed and really helped me visualize the program. You answered many, if not all of my concerns and questions. I like a combination of study habits, so I think this would be a fit for me. I also had a chance to look up the MNST note services. This would support my learning style. Thanks so much! I really appreciate your thoroughness. Very helpful! Good Luck in Med School!
 
@hockeyduderr One other thing and this is for anyone else that may be considering an SMP. I feel like GU's SMP is upper mid-tier because they have a weak linkage to their med school. There are no guarantees of getting an II to GUSoM by doing the SMP. What I would consider top-tier programs are Temple's ACMS and Tulane's ACLP. Temple has a conditional acceptance in place if you are accepted to their program and you earn a "Masters" degree (I put this in quotations because it isn't like a typical Masters where you could continue on to get a PhD, this is like most SMP degrees including GU's). Tulane's ACLP is not a graduate program. It is a certificate program that will likely do nothing for you if you aren't accepted into their medical school. BUT they accept a large percentage of their students to TUSoM (I would argue around 90% but this isn't guaranteed year to year.) The major CON of Tulane's program is that because it isn't a graduate program, you aren't eligible for federal financial aid. You have to pay out of pocket for tuition and housing. Tuition alone is $17,000 and New Orleans isn't cheap to live in so you are looking at close to $50k out of pocket. I would also rank Cincinnati's SMP above GU because they seem to accept a large percentage of their students to their medical school. Their program is smaller too so this also helps as they likely only select top applicants whereas GU accepts close to 200 each year and you'll get a bunch of students that probably shouldn't be there due to not being mature enough or not having the rest of their application in line beforehand.

I've told many people this before but you shouldn't do the GU SMP if you have other areas of your application that need improvement outside of your uGPA. If your MCAT isn't great, improve that and then do the SMP. If you need more volunteer hours or clinical exposure, get that done before you do the SMP. Once you are in the SMP, you won't have much time to do anything else but the SMP. I was able to volunteer sparingly during the SMP but nothing substantial. I so know some people who did the SMP, then took (or retook) their MCAT and did substantially better and then applied but again this is all a time crunch. You don't finish the SMP until June and by then you have to have your primary application in. And if you are going to retake the MCAT, most schools won't look at you until you get your new score in. So that's even more pressure to get everything lined up.

Finally, if you are in an underrepresented group, you should consider the GEMS program at GU. They have a strong linkage to the med school and as long as you can do well in that program, you have a very high chance of being accepted. It isn't guaranteed but it is very close to it.

EDIT: I just looked at Cincinnati's SMP alumni page and it seems they've accepted around 10 out of 30 student to their med school each year minus the 2020 class. So while this is only 33% into their med school, it beats GU SMP acceptance of 35 out of 200 (for my year anyway).
 
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DraxxxThemSklounst said:
@hockeyduderr One other thing and this is for anyone else that may be considering an SMP. I feel like GU's SMP is upper mid-tier because they have a weak linkage to their med school. There are no guarantees of getting an II to GUSoM by doing the SMP. What I would consider top-tier programs are Temple's ACMS and Tulane's ACLP. Temple has a conditional acceptance in place if you are accepted to their program and you earn a "Masters" degree (I put this in quotations because it isn't like a typical Masters where you could continue on to get a PhD, this is like most SMP degrees including GU's). Tulane's ACLP is not a graduate program. It is a certificate program that will likely do nothing for you if you aren't accepted into their medical school. BUT they accept a large percentage of their students to TUSoM (I would argue around 90% but this isn't guaranteed year to year.) The major CON of Tulane's program is that because it isn't a graduate program, you aren't eligible for federal financial aid. You have to pay out of pocket for tuition and housing. Tuition alone is $17,000 and New Orleans isn't cheap to live in so you are looking at close to $50k out of pocket. I would also rank Cincinnati's SMP above GU because they seem to accept a large percentage of their students to their medical school. Their program is smaller too so this also helps as they likely only select top applicants whereas GU accepts close to 200 each year and you'll get a bunch of students that probably shouldn't be there due to not being mature enough or not having the rest of their application in line beforehand.

I've told many people this before but you shouldn't do the GU SMP if you have other areas of your application that need improvement outside of your uGPA. If your MCAT isn't great, improve that and then do the SMP. If you need more volunteer hours or clinical exposure, get that done before you do the SMP. Once you are in the SMP, you won't have much time to do anything else but the SMP. I was able to volunteer sparingly during the SMP but nothing substantial. I so know some people who did the SMP, then took (or retook) their MCAT and did substantially better and then applied but again this is all a time crunch. You don't finish the SMP until June and by then you have to have your primary application in. And if you are going to retake the MCAT, most schools won't look at you until you get your new score in. So that's even more pressure to get everything lined up.

Finally, if you are in an underrepresented group, you should consider the GEMS program at GU. They have a strong linkage to the med school and as long as you can do well in that program, you have a very high chance of being accepted. It isn't guaranteed but it is very close to it.

EDIT: I just looked at Cincinnati's SMP alumni page and it seems they've accepted around 10 out of 30 student to their med school each year minus the 2020 class. So while this is only 33% into their med school, it beats GU SMP acceptance of 35 out of 200 (for my year anyway).
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Help me understand " Upper mid-tier because they don't have a week linkage". Does that mean "because you can get into any med school if you do well?" .I also got accepted into Tulane as well as Mt.Sinai Ichan Biomedical Science. I have heard lots of great things about Mt.Sinai? Done a lot of research, however living in New York City. I am trying to narrow them down.
 
@hockeyduderr Let me try to clarify. So GU SMP has a weak linkage to their medical school. By that I mean, you pay $55k to kind of jump the line in terms of an II. I think the last stats that I saw was something like ~13k people applied to GUSoM, 1.3K are interviewed, and 350 are offered acceptances into a class of 200. So in the general pool of applicants, you have a ~10% chance of being interviewed, and a ~3% chance of getting an acceptance to GUSoM. Now, if you do the SMP, it's rumored that they interview around half of the class, so you have a 50% chance of an II. Then they accept around 30 students on average each year from the current SMP class. So you have a 15% chance of being accepted to GUSoM from the SMP. So when I say that I would classify GU's SMP as upper mid-tier, I base that off of these stats and its reputation. I have heard that some other medical schools do look at people who have graduated from GU's SMP favorably (I heard from a friend and classmate that Tulane really likes GU SMP alum). So by doing the SMP and doing well, as long as the rest of your application is sound, you won't have a problem getting into a medical school. THIS INCLUDES THE INTERVIEW. People (including myself) often overlook how important it is to PRACTICE your interview skills. The person I spoke about that rocked the SMP at GU that wasn't accepted to any US schools fell short with their interview from what I've heard from a close friend of theirs. That person was solid on paper, had the clinical experience, had a super high MCAT, and still fell short.

The reason I put Cincinnati in a notch above GU's SMP is that they seem to accept around 33% of their students to their medical school. In terms of reputation, I don't think you can beat GU. But stats speak for themself. Then I put Tulane's ACLP above Cincinnati's SMP because their stats also speak for themself. They accept around 90% of their students. The only con is that it isn't a graduate program so you won't qualify for federal financial aid like you would with GU or Cincinnati. And then there is GU GEMS and Temple ACMS. GU GEMS is #2 because they have a very strong linkage to GUSoM. It isn't guaranteed but it's basically yours to lose from what I've heard from some of my close friends who did the program. And finally Temple's ACMS. It has a guaranteed acceptance as long as you meet all of the criteria. Look at their website. I applied to Temple's ACMS and Tulane's ACLP but wasn't accepted to either. Things worked out in the end but having a guarantee in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Is your acceptance to Tulane for the ACLP or their Master's of Anatomy? These are two very different programs and I would avoid the Master's of Anatomy program. I was offered an accepted to their program after being rejected from the ACLP but from what I've read, medical programs don't really care about it. The MAIN goal of any SMP is that you are taking MEDICAL SCHOOL CLASSES along side MEDICAL STUDENTS. If you are in a program that doesn't offer this, stay away IMO. I hope this clarifies any misunderstandings you had.

Edit: I wanted to add a response to your second sentence. Doing an SMP doesn't mean you will get into ANY medical school upon completion. It can help you get into a medical school but if you do poorly it will likely close the door for you to get into a US medical school (MD and DO). You will still have Caribbean and overseas schools as options but you probably had those options before the SMP.

ANOTHER Edit: I don't know much about Mt. Sinai's SMP. Be weary of newer programs. If people don't know about them then it's likely that medical schools don't really know about them. The whole point of an SMP is to prove to medical schools that you can thrive in medical school. Most medical schools know of GU's SMP, Boston's SMP, and Cincinnati's SMP. The only reason I haven't really talked about Boston's is because it's a two year program (you might be able to do it in 1 year but I heard that it's super tough to do that). Again, I haven't really read up on these programs since I'm two years out from this whole process. This is just what I vaguely remember. When I applied to SMPs, I applied to the following programs and ranked them in order of my desire to attend:
1. Temple ACMS
2. Tulane ACLP (rejected but offered a spot in their Master's of Anatomy program which I turned down - avoid graduate programs with no actual medical school courses)
3. Drexel DPMS (it had a guaranteed acceptance to their medical school but their medical school is a mess right now so I'm glad I wasn't accepted - plus they offered me an acceptance to their IMS which is their SMP but I turned it down because it's reputation was nothing compared to GU)
4. Rosalind Franklin's SMP (they were super rude to me so I would rank them lower in hindsight and their school is just meh IMO)
5. Loyola's MSMP (the director was very nice but told me that I was a leper to medical schools and she couldn't in good faith accept me knowing that their program wouldn't help me get into medical school - it was a real bummer and threw me into a panic - also this program doesn't offer medical school courses so in hindsight I would avoid)
6. GU SMP (I was initially terrified of this program - I heard nightmare stories and the director of admissions from my state school told me to stay far away from it as they throw you in the deep end with no support - luckily I trusted my gut and push forward and she was wrong about everything - still a very nice person - also Dr. Mulroney is amazing! She's the GU SMP director and after talking to her, I felt like GU was the right choice - but it still terrified me because for me it was do or die, an 8 year journey culminating with this SMP)
7. MCW MMP (very new program - I was accepted but felt weary about attending because they didn't have much of a track record and they don't have medical school courses)
 
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DraxxxThemSklounst said:
@hockeyduderr Let me try to clarify. So GU SMP has a weak linkage to their medical school. By that I mean, you pay $55k to kind of jump the line in terms of an II. I think the last stats that I saw was something like ~13k people applied to GUSoM, 1.3K are interviewed, and 350 are offered acceptances into a class of 200. So in the general pool of applicants, you have a ~10% chance of being interviewed, and a ~3% chance of getting an acceptance to GUSoM. Now, if you do the SMP, it's rumored that they interview around half of the class, so you have a 50% chance of an II. Then they accept around 30 students on average each year from the current SMP class. So you have a 15% chance of being accepted to GUSoM from the SMP. So when I say that I would classify GU's SMP as upper mid-tier, I base that off of these stats and its reputation. I have heard that some other medical schools do look at people who have graduated from GU's SMP favorably (I heard from a friend and classmate that Tulane really likes GU SMP alum). So by doing the SMP and doing well, as long as the rest of your application is sound, you won't have a problem getting into a medical school. THIS INCLUDES THE INTERVIEW. People (including myself) often overlook how important it is to PRACTICE your interview skills. The person I spoke about that rocked the SMP at GU that wasn't accepted to any US schools fell short with their interview from what I've heard from a close friend of theirs. That person was solid on paper, had the clinical experience, had a super high MCAT, and still fell short.

The reason I put Cincinnati in a notch above GU's SMP is that they seem to accept around 33% of their students to their medical school. In terms of reputation, I don't think you can beat GU. But stats speak for themself. Then I put Tulane's ACLP above Cincinnati's SMP because their stats also speak for themself. They accept around 90% of their students. The only con is that it isn't a graduate program so you won't qualify for federal financial aid like you would with GU or Cincinnati. And then there is GU GEMS and Temple ACMS. GU GEMS is #2 because they have a very strong linkage to GUSoM. It isn't guaranteed but it's basically yours to lose from what I've heard from some of my close friends who did the program. And finally Temple's ACMS. It has a guaranteed acceptance as long as you meet all of the criteria. Look at their website. I applied to Temple's ACMS and Tulane's ACLP but wasn't accepted to either. Things worked out in the end but having a guarantee in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Is your acceptance to Tulane for the ACLP or their Master's of Anatomy? These are two very different programs and I would avoid the Master's of Anatomy program. I was offered an accepted to their program after being rejected from the ACLP but from what I've read, medical programs don't really care about it. The MAIN goal of any SMP is that you are taking MEDICAL SCHOOL CLASSES along side MEDICAL STUDENTS. If you are in a program that doesn't offer this, stay away IMO. I hope this clarifies any misunderstandings you had.

Edit: I wanted to add a response to your second sentence. Doing an SMP doesn't mean you will get into ANY medical school upon completion. It can help you get into a medical school but if you do poorly it will likely close the door for you to get into a US medical school (MD and DO). You will still have Caribbean and overseas schools as options but you probably had those options before the SMP.

ANOTHER Edit: I don't know much about Mt. Sinai's SMP. Be weary of newer programs. If people don't know about them then it's likely that medical schools don't really know about them. The whole point of an SMP is to prove to medical schools that you can thrive in medical school. Most medical schools know of GU's SMP, Boston's SMP, and Cincinnati's SMP. The only reason I haven't really talked about Boston's is because it's a two year program (you might be able to do it in 1 year but I heard that it's super tough to do that). Again, I haven't really read up on these programs since I'm two years out from this whole process. This is just what I vaguely remember. When I applied to SMPs, I applied to the following programs and ranked them in order of my desire to attend:
1. Temple ACMS
2. Tulane ACLP (rejected but offered a spot in their Master's of Anatomy program which I turned down - avoid graduate programs with no actual medical school courses)
3. Drexel DPMS (it had a guaranteed acceptance to their medical school but their medical school is a mess right now so I'm glad I wasn't accepted - plus they offered me an acceptance to their IMS which is their SMP but I turned it down because it's reputation was nothing compared to GU)
4. Rosalind Franklin's SMP (they were super rude to me so I would rank them lower in hindsight and their school is just meh IMO)
5. Loyola's MSMP (the director was very nice but told me that I was a leper to medical schools and she couldn't in good faith accept me knowing that their program wouldn't help me get into medical school - it was a real bummer and threw me into a panic - also this program doesn't offer medical school courses so in hindsight I would avoid)
6. GU SMP (I was initially terrified of this program - I heard nightmare stories and the director of admissions from my state school told me to stay far away from it as they throw you in the deep end with no support - luckily I trusted my gut and push forward and she was wrong about everything - still a very nice person - also Dr. Mulroney is amazing! She's the GU SMP director and after talking to her, I felt like GU was the right choice - but it still terrified me because for me it was do or die, an 8 year journey culminating with this SMP)
7. MCW MMP (very new program - I was accepted but felt weary about attending because they didn't have much of a track record and they don't have medical school courses)
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Thank you for this! Also how is the tuition reduction for students that attend the SMP and matriculate in GUSOM?
 
@lulu1234 Well my tuition in the fall of my first year was $22,779 and the same for the spring. I think total year tuition for 2019-2020 was $55k-56k. Maybe ~$10k in savings.
 
DraxxxThemSklounst said:
@lulu1234 Well my tuition in the fall of my first year was $22,779 and the same for the spring. I think total year tuition for 2019-2020 was $55k-56k. Maybe ~$10k in savings.
Click to expand...
Thank you! So was your course load much lighter since you had already taken many of the M1 classes?
 
@lulu1234 it was. You are exempt from all physiology and embryology for the first year. There is also some other stuff you are exempt from but I can’t remember right now. During the fall, especially the first block, you have hardly anything. Then a little bit more gets added to your plate second block, then more third and fourth blocks in the spring as anatomy starts up. By the fall of your second year, you are going full bore with the non-SMP students.
 
Hi
I was wondering about the wait list for smp? How many people get off it?
 
I was recently accepted an was curious on if there was a significant difference between GTDT and the GUMC experiences. Anyone know if the two groups interact much? How does the experience of each influence how people perform in the program? I imagine GUMC allows for larger collaboration while GTDT might be more tight knit?
 
@Redskins666 There is a pretty big difference between the two groups. I did the GUMC and it is more like actual medical school. You (can but don't have to) attend lectures with the medical students. I hardly went to class because I would get too distracted so I just watched the recording of the lecture when it posted later that day. The style of teaching is lecture-based. With GTDT, you are on your own for the whole week, watching the video lectures when they post and then at the end of the week, you have a day where you actually teach the material to your classmates (or something similar). I believe it is lead by a TA so you aren't on your own and there may be worksheets to go on, but it's a lot more interactive. BUT you have to be prepared each Friday so there isn't much room for procrastination. Additionally, the GTDT group is a week behind the GUMC group because they want to give them time to get the recorded lectures. Sometimes lectures would take a day or two to post. PLUS, the GTDT also has an extra class where you volunteer and do other clinical experiences. GUMC is a lot more cliquey because it's just too big to form a large group whereas GTDT is very close knit since there is only 20 or so students. Neither program increases your chances at getting accepted into GUSoM though. One year they took a bunch of people from GTDT and the next they hardly took any. So it largely depends on the individuals and how they fit with what GUSoM is looking for.
 
Also, GT's SMP just recently changed directors. The new director was a previous lecturer, Dr. Whitney. She is big on anatomy and I think she prepared us very well. Going into GUSoM, I felt like I knew anatomy a lot better than some of my non-SMP peers and I think my SMP peers felt the same way. Dr. Whitney is wonderful. Dr. Mulroney was also excellent but remember, don't take your drama or questions to the CEO. Rely on their assistants heavily. If their assistants can't answer your questions, they'll take it to the top and you'll still get your answer. You want to be known in the program for the right reasons so only get on their radar for doing well, being a responsible student, and helping your peers. Being a gunner isn't gonna fly for you here.
 
DraxxxThemSklounst said:
@Redskins666 There is a pretty big difference between the two groups. I did the GUMC and it is more like actual medical school. You (can but don't have to) attend lectures with the medical students. I hardly went to class because I would get too distracted so I just watched the recording of the lecture when it posted later that day. The style of teaching is lecture-based. With GTDT, you are on your own for the whole week, watching the video lectures when they post and then at the end of the week, you have a day where you actually teach the material to your classmates (or something similar). I believe it is lead by a TA so you aren't on your own and there may be worksheets to go on, but it's a lot more interactive. BUT you have to be prepared each Friday so there isn't much room for procrastination. Additionally, the GTDT group is a week behind the GUMC group because they want to give them time to get the recorded lectures. Sometimes lectures would take a day or two to post. PLUS, the GTDT also has an extra class where you volunteer and do other clinical experiences. GUMC is a lot more cliquey because it's just too big to form a large group whereas GTDT is very close knit since there is only 20 or so students. Neither program increases your chances at getting accepted into GUSoM though. One year they took a bunch of people from GTDT and the next they hardly took any. So it largely depends on the individuals and how they fit with what GUSoM is looking for.
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time to reply with the breakdown! I thought it over and decided that GUMC was the better fit for me and what I'm looking for. If you have any advice you'd be willing to share from your experience how to jump in and be successful in the program, it would be much appreciated! I've found old guides and words of wisdom from 2015 and around that time, but I'm assuming much has changed.
 
@Redskins666 My words of advice would be to be realistic with yourself and try your best. Seriously. At the beginning of my program, Dr. Mulroney would literally get tons of questions about how well you needed to do in the program to get an II from GUSoM. It was the worst question and I always felt bad for her because she knew that everyone was hanging on to every last word she said and would treat it as fact. All she could say is what the trends were in past classes and there isn't a hard cutoff for getting an II from GUSoM. But seeing our desperation, she would try to give us something. I think she would say something like a 3.5 and above would look really good to GUSoM. To be honest, that isn't how it works. Not everyone with a 3.5+ SMP GPA will get an II. Maybe other areas of their application are weak. There are many more variables than just an SMP GPA. When I went in, I was just hoping to survive without getting egg on my face (seriously). I was terrified of the SMP because of all of the (mostly untrue) stuff I read on SDN. That's why I'm here. I know personally someone that was offered and II from GUSoM with a 3.44 SMP GPA and they were accepted. Another idea that floated around my class was that if you got a 4.0 SMP GPA then you would get an automatic acceptance. This is very false. I have known people who did get an II from GUSoM but were not accepted. One person was even rejected after the interview which is rare. The admissions process, in general, is perplexing. So again, this is why I say "try your best." You know what your best looks like. If you feel like you can give more, then do it. If you feel like maybe you are giving too much, then pull back. Don't burn yourself out early. Find the balance.

Now what you were probably looking for was how to study. It is different for everyone. I didn't study like my classmates. For one, I hated Anki. Some lived by it. Anki can work wonders if you stick with it. But that just wasn't my style. I tried it, got really frustrated, and then I would fall behind because I spent a day on trying to do Anki. There is an alumnus that made decks for most of the GUSoM med courses. I think collfire90 was the person. Anyway, some people used those religiously and did well. Some made their own cards. This takes SO MUCH TIME. PLUS, the idea is to just make cards to help you remember little details. I would get carried away and make cards for everything, which is insane and not the way to do things. What worked for me is I made sure to at least do 3 passes of the material. I hated attending lectures so I would wait for them to release the recording and then watch my lecture at home at 1.5x speed. I would rewind a lot so that I made sure everything made sense and probably didn't save any time. Then I would go through the MNTS set for that lecture. MNTS = Medical Note Taking Service, it's a service you automatically pay for when you start the program but you can opt out if you want (don't do that though). The service is run by medical students. M1s are hired to write a note set for each lecture, each set is about 5-15 pages in length, sometimes with pictures, sometimes all words. You have access to 3 years of MNTS (current year PLUS the previous two years). The quality of each set varies from student to student, year to year. And they usually come out a few days after the lecture. So if that happened, I would just rely on the previous year's MNTS (as long as the lecturer was the same - make sure that your lecturers match as some lecturers could emphasize different points). Then I would just go through, reading everything very carefully, highlighting, and making notes in the margins. Because I had already watched the lecture, I knew what was talked about and if I felt like something was missing or something was wrong, I would check another year's MNTS. By the end, I would have an amalgam of a few MNTS sets and my own notes. One thing I did but wasn't consistent with it was I would also read through the PowerPoint either before a lecture or side-by-side with the MNTS. That way I could get images from the lecturer that would usually help solidify the picture in my head. Now, if you were following along, that is only two passes (lecture counts as 1 pass, reading MNTS once counts as 1). So I would make sure to read through all of the MNTS sets again usually the days leading up to the exam. Sometimes I would even read through them again as I would usually be up all night before exams because it became a ritual for me. I ended up with a 3.81 SMP GPA and I would say I wasn't as diehard as some of my other classmates. Some of them would watch the lectures and transcribe their own notes, then they would make Anki cards from that. I had another friend who would use OneNote, pull in the PowerPoint slides, and make notes on the side during the lecture. Just do what works for you in the end and if you do poorly on an exam, then make small adjustments where needed. They would usually provide practice questions and we would have weekly (nonmandatory/ungraded) quizzes to assess our learning. I usually skipped these and would save them for the end after I had done my 3rd pass. I hope this helps. I'm here to answer any other questions. Congrats on your acceptance to the SMP and good luck!
 
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Just got accepted late in this cycle! Im wondering if anyone has info about financial aid and good apartments? I’m a bit lost since I haven’t gotten an email confirming yet
 
sgpa: 2.18
cgpa: 2.15
mcat: 495
excellent ec's, clincal opportunities, non-profit work.
what are my chances for getting into the smp program?
 
joeytribbiani636 said:
sgpa: 2.18
cgpa: 2.15
mcat: 495
excellent ec's, clincal opportunities, non-profit work.
what are my chances for getting into the smp program?
Click to expand...
It's not the right question I would be asking. If you take away your MCAT score and uGPA/sGPA, what does the rest of your app look like? Volunteering? Research? Clinical experiences? Other outstanding experiences like working? NOW, if all of that is great and you add a GPA of 3.7 and MCAT of 510+, is that something that looks like a great application to medical schools, both DO and MD? The SMP is really only meant to fix a **** show of an uGPA. Doing well in the SMP will show schools that you can handle the rigors of medical school but there is so much more to being a good medical student than just getting good grades. How do you work with others? Did you play sports in high school or college? What have you done to actually talk to people in a capacity where they were seeking your help? THAT is what medical schools are looking for. It's not all just "I am smart enough to pass my medical school classes." It's "are they smart enough to integrate the medical information into helping others, connecting with others, and understanding that you are putting your life on the back burner for many years to hone these skills to help others." Plus you will have to get that MCAT score up on a repeat at some point to at least a 506. But this is my two cents, poll others to develop an answer from the aggregate.
 
Is the linkage only applicable while being an SMP student? I am currently applying to the SMP, but my MCAT score is not acceptable for med school. I also have a lot of extra work to do in terms of EC. What is your opinion on completing the SMP for the purpose of improving uGPA as a first step, and THEN going ahead with finishing up EC and MCAT.
 
elizabethmarinescu said:
Is the linkage only applicable while being an SMP student? I am currently applying to the SMP, but my MCAT score is not acceptable for med school. I also have a lot of extra work to do in terms of EC. What is your opinion on completing the SMP for the purpose of improving uGPA as a first step, and THEN going ahead with finishing up EC and MCAT.
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I do know people who have been successful getting admitted to medical school a year out from the SMP. I even know of 2 people who continued to apply to Georgetown SOM and were eventually admitted 4 years out of the program. I also know of people who took the MCAT after the SMP and saw their scores jump up quite a bit because they learned how to study. I personally believe that you should have your application ready for submission to medical schools MINUS the uGPA. In my experience, I had everything established (good MCAT score, lots of clinical experience, research w/ publications, lots of volunteering hours) but my uGPA was awful (~2.5). When you first start the SMP, they recommend you apply to around 20 medical schools. I applied to 24 schools, letting them know I would be updating them with my SMP grades. I received zero interviews. The only interview that I received was from Georgetown and I was lucky to be admitted.
 
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