gender discrimination in research

[Annie19610]

I was wondering what everyone thinks about the under-representation of women in the elite tiers of academic medicine. Is this due in part to discrimination? What about in the early years, does gender influence students' access to research opportunities?

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[RxnMan]

Two influences I believe factor into women's under-representation in the sciences are:

1) Men and Women already in science. Some men in science have an older view that women should stay in the kitchen - this should be dying out, but I still see forms of it every now and again. Also, some women scientists restrict other women from becoming scientists. This is done, in part, out of a fear of losing their position (which they worked hard against sterotypes to get) and loss of status (i.e., newcomers won't do as good of a job, and embarass extant female scientists). I've also seen this happen.

2) The perception that science does not have a benefit towards others. I read one study (don't remember the ref) that stated that many young girls don't see the way that careers in science help people, so they lose interest. The most significant factor in changing this perception is having a relative who is in a scientific field, who shows them the positive effect of that job.

 

[relentless11]

I agree with RxnMan, but wanted to add that I also believe it has to do with how women were raised, and what they actually like to do. The whole "women are inferior" is a socially constructed notion derived from god knows when. As RxnMan said, the higher ups who view the world in this manner are retiring away, thus slowly removing such kinds of discrimination from the playing field.

However we must also factor in family, and personal preferences/goals. I wouldn't appreciate science so much if it wasn't for my parents. Often times, girls and boys are brought up differently. Although in modern times, there are rarely any boundries in what kids are taught as children, there are probably still some kind of differentiation. A good example would be my friend, who's dad is an engineer, and who's mom is a teacher. She is close to her mom, and thus wants to be a teacher. She totally dislikes the engineering way of thinking... "always have to be quantified (too analytical apparently)".

Another factor would be goals. To some extent, I have known both men and women to want to have a family. Some of my female friends at some point want to take a step back from work/school, to raise a family. They want to be there as their children grow up, rather than be busy in the lab, office, or classroom while their kids are raised by a babysitter (just an example). Conversely, I have some friends who are willing to push hard with their career goals, but accomplish their familial goals by having a supportive spouse, or other family members (mom/dad?). Ultimately, its what they want, and how they do it that defines how far they will go these days.

I whole heartedly think think that the discrimination factor is less significant these days. A good example would be our med school. Our dean for the med school is a woman, and she also doubles as vice chancellor for the entire university. More recently, we have appointed a female CEO for our medical center. Over the past 6 years, I have interacted with numerous female associate professor/full professors in our school of medicine (mainly MD's). So they are certainly not under-represented in terms of actual ethnic minorities. Relative to gender, I must admit there are still probably more men, but it is probably along the lines of 55-60% men, so its not that bad. I don't care what the ratio is, but aslong as people are happy and good at what they do.

 

[MtnGntx]

If you don't like the ratios, then just wait a few years! There are far more female applicants to our graduate health science programs than there are men. It has been this way for at least the last 5 years. My class was easily two to one females to males. For whatever reason, there just are not as many males pursuing these careers. In this poor funding environment, I also know of a boatload of older male PI's going into retirement. Those successful and noted female researches are in the pipeline

 

[relentless11]

I want to add, that in terms of veterinary school, its totally reversed. Its essentially a 5:1 if not 8:1 girl to guy ratio. At the academic vet medicine level, from my perspective, its closer to 1:1 maybe 1.25:1 ratio for male vet professors vs. female vet professors. Looking at the class pictures since time first began.....somewhere during the 70s-80s, women became the majority, and today the entire first year class (131) are mainly female. So yea, just to reinforce that for these days, its more what you want to do, rather than discriminatory obstacles. Maybe guys don't like vet med, or girls like it more. I don't know.