Frugal Docs

[orangele]

Well I have just paid off my house. I have worked in private practice for most of my career, and have wasted alot of money (dont regret it though on fast cars One thing I did not waste money on was housing.

Bought my house for 139K 12 years ago. Yes I did some updating/remodeling but most was paid for in cash. I love my home; it is comfortable, big, and best of all it is paid off. The fact that I did not have a huge mortgage to pay each month meant that I did have disposible income to play with and save. My biggest single expense now is child support followed by my gardener (I would have let him go too but would feel guilty about it)

Just semi-retired last week age 52. Probably biggest thing I am thankful for is that I did not buy a huge expensive home.

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[deleted116380]

I guess congrats to you. There currently is no reason to purchase a home for most just leaving school imo. In the past, some did this during residency in the hopes the price would rise and they could make some money and the profit would be taxed as long term cap gains (2 years residence, 15% tax on profits).

Now no one knows how home prices will be over the course of a residency or even later. People sometimes to forget the "true" cost of a home...that is when you include property taxes (most obvious), home owners association fees (some places don't have), maintenance, insurance, utility bills, etc.

I have never been a fan of condos. Not only do you not own a real piece of land, but you're subject to ever increasing home owners association fees (which includes property tax). Plus, you deal with shared walls and the hassle that comes with if you have terrible neighbors on either side or above.

McMansions will soon be obsolete. There is no need for a couple to own a 4,500+ sq ft cookie cutter home. Standard materials are used except granite counters, which somehow make the place fancy. No one wants to pay the high a/c costs, property tax, or even clean that damn big of a place.

My advice for the newly minted residents...live VERY well below your means. $500 apt is not a bad idea...you can save A LOT if you manage your finances well even on the small resident pay that you make. Don't bother with a home over 3,500 sq ft. And location is what matters the most in maintaining and raising the value of a home. Don't ever buy the biggest home on the block...hard to sell later on. Buy land...they're not making it anymore.

 

[bowzer]

Well I have just paid off my house. I have worked in private practice for most of my career, and have wasted alot of money (dont regret it though on fast cars One thing I did not waste money on was housing.

Bought my house for 139K 12 years ago. Yes I did some updating/remodeling but most was paid for in cash. I love my home; it is comfortable, big, and best of all it is paid off. The fact that I did not have a huge mortgage to pay each month meant that I did have disposible income to play with and save. My biggest single expense now is child support followed by my gardener (I would have let him go too but would feel guilty about it)

Just semi-retired last week age 52. Probably biggest thing I am thankful for is that I did not buy a huge expensive home.

don't mean to be cynical but what's the point of being frugal if you can't have nice expensive things at some point. I don't mind living cheaply as long as there are nice things waiting over the rainbow. If there's nothing waiting over the rainbow then i might as well just rack up the debt and live good while i can. just saying... I still admire what you've done.

 

[mx_599]

don't mean to be cynical but what's the point of being frugal if you can't have nice expensive things at some point. I don't mind living cheaply as long as there are nice things waiting over the rainbow. If there's nothing waiting over the rainbow then i might as well just rack up the debt and live good while i can. just saying... I still admire what you've done.

okay material girl

 

[sideways]

don't mean to be cynical but what's the point of being frugal if you can't have nice expensive things at some point. I don't mind living cheaply as long as there are nice things waiting over the rainbow. If there's nothing waiting over the rainbow then i might as well just rack up the debt and live good while i can. just saying... I still admire what you've done.

I get where you're coming from, but here's the answer to your question: freedom.

Imagine being 52 and never having to work a day again in your life. It's beautiful.

 

[deleted116380]

I get where you're coming from, but here's the answer to your question: freedom.

Imagine being 52 and never having to work a day again in your life. It's beautiful.

What would you do when you retire? You need a plan. Sitting around all day doing nothing gets boring quick. Heck, I finished my 1st year of med school 3 weeks ago and some days I'm bored when my friends are doing other things.

I guess if you travel from that point on, you will be occupied. I don't understand those that want to retire as early as possible. I really don't see myself retiring at all to be honest. Maybe take reduced hours (1/2 time), but definitely not full on retire.

Financial freedom is absolutely the best thing. Being able to do what you want when you want cannot be beat. My former co-worker called this "**** you money"...where you can tell your boss "**** you" and leave and not worry about any financial issue, LOL!

 

[mx_599]

What would you do when you retire? You need a plan. Sitting around all day doing nothing gets boring quick. Heck, I finished my 1st year of med school 3 weeks ago and some days I'm bored when my friends are doing other things.

I guess if you travel from that point on, you will be occupied. I don't understand those that want to retire as early as possible. I really don't see myself retiring at all to be honest. Maybe take reduced hours (1/2 time), but definitely not full on retire.

Financial freedom is absolutely the best thing. Being able to do what you want when you want cannot be beat. My former co-worker called this "**** you money"...where you can tell your boss "**** you" and leave and not worry about any financial issue, LOL!

OMG WTF

how old are you?

if I hit power ball I would not be bored and I would retire from residency. are you freaking crazy?

you are one of those types married to academia. I actually have hobbies, or passions, in life.

like wow, I would hit as many Ironman comps, I would ride all over the country in mtb races. ride a bunch of epic centuries on my road bike. climb mtn's. go hiking. practice my barefoot running and natural movement. learn paleolithic anthropology. keep researching optimal health. get a sweet sea kayak. ski the great mtns in this country and abroad. I could on

seriously, you need to stop playing guitar hero and take up some healthy things in life. i just reread your post in total disbelief. the best you could come up with is "travel"????

wow just wow.

thanks

bye

edit:

I am planning my great escape now while in residency. I was shooting for early 50's as well. life will be so great when done. Congrats to the OP!!! go live life now...I hope you're a young and healthy 52!

 

[sideways]

What would you do when you retire?

Whatever you want. That's the point.

 

[deleted116380]

OMG WTF

how old are you?

if I hit power ball I would not be bored and I would retire from residency. are you freaking crazy?

you are one of those types married to academia. I actually have hobbies, or passions, in life.

like wow, I would hit as many Ironman comps, I would ride all over the country in mtb races. ride a bunch of epic centuries on my road bike. climb mtn's. go hiking. practice my barefoot running and natural movement. learn paleolithic anthropology. keep researching optimal health. get a sweet sea kayak. ski the great mtns in this country and abroad. I could on

seriously, you need to stop playing guitar hero and take up some healthy things in life. i just reread your post in total disbelief. the best you could come up with is "travel"????

wow just wow.

thanks

bye

edit:

I am planning my great escape now while in residency. I was shooting for early 50's as well. life will be so great when done. Congrats to the OP!!! go live life now...I hope you're a young and healthy 52!

Nah, don't play video games. I've already done a lot...sorta tired of it. I don't know...already been to South Africa, Iran, France, UK, Caymans, Jamaica, Bahamas, Mexico, Canada. Been to NYC (top of Empire, WTC, etc). Chicago (again all over that place). Vegas...been there...done that. Drove from there to LA...then up to SF (beautiful State).

Drive in Ferraris (F40 my favorite), drove my friend's Maserati GranTurismo and SL 55 AMG. Seen every supercar imaginable (McLaren F1, Veyron, CLK GTR, etc). Already own a sports car and don't need anything anytime soon. Done boating a lot...bored of that. My mom owns like 15 kayaks and I'm tired of that as well. We kayaked for 3 hours to Cayo Costa for camping. Kayaked all up and down east coast of central FL.

Seen at least 3 dozen space shuttle launches. Many times up close...day, dusk, night, and dawn. Felt the booms of the landings. Seen the Blue Angels, seen the Thunderbirds, seen the Raptor all fly. Seen an SR-71 blackbird. Seen the Apollo 11 capsule. Seen pretty much everything aerospace.

Did I mention I used to work for the gov't in DC? Right. So I went to see Picasso, Monet, and anyone else you can think of's paintings on my lunch break. Been in the White House (mid-90s as a kid). Walked through the Capitol Building. Went to the Library of Congress, Supreme Court, etc, whenever I wanted.

Oh, and been in the cockpit of a 747-400 during flight (South African Airways) as the sun was setting in Africa. Seeing a Concorde takeoff. Been on the TGV from Paris to London...to see my cousin get married at the London Zoo.

Right now I've been playing with my DSLR (350D Canon) for about four years and am already worn out over it. I'm pretty sure I know what to do with my time. Thanks.

P.S. My alma mater, UF, won the bball and football championships in my lifetime. Buccaneers won the SB...and the Lightning the Stanley Cup (not that I follow that). And the Heat for the NBA championship and Marlins for MLB. I turn 25 soon.

 

[mx_599]

Nah, don't play video games. I've already done a lot...sorta tired of it. I don't know...already been to South Africa, Iran, France, UK, Caymans, Jamaica, Bahamas, Mexico, Canada. Been to NYC (top of Empire, WTC, etc). Chicago (again all over that place). Vegas...been there...done that. Drove from there to LA...then up to SF (beautiful State).

Drive in Ferraris (F40 my favorite), drove my friend's Maserati GranTurismo and SL 55 AMG. Seen every supercar imaginable (McLaren F1, Veyron, CLK GTR, etc). Already own a sports car and don't need anything anytime soon. Done boating a lot...bored of that. My mom owns like 15 kayaks and I'm tired of that as well. We kayaked for 3 hours to Cayo Costa for camping. Kayaked all up and down east coast of central FL.

Seen at least 3 dozen space shuttle launches. Many times up close...day, dusk, night, and dawn. Felt the booms of the landings. Seen the Blue Angels, seen the Thunderbirds, seen the Raptor all fly. Seen an SR-71 blackbird. Seen the Apollo 11 capsule. Seen pretty much everything aerospace.

Did I mention I used to work for the gov't in DC? Right. So I went to see Picasso, Monet, and anyone else you can think of's paintings on my lunch break. Been in the White House (mid-90s as a kid). Walked through the Capitol Building. Went to the Library of Congress, Supreme Court, etc, whenever I wanted.

Oh, and been in the cockpit of a 747-400 during flight (South African Airways) as the sun was setting in Africa. Seeing a Concorde takeoff. Been on the TGV from Paris to London...to see my cousin get married at the London Zoo.

Right now I've been playing with my DSLR (350D Canon) for about four years and am already worn out over it. I'm pretty sure I know what to do with my time. Thanks.

P.S. My alma mater, UF, won the bball and football championships in my lifetime. Buccaneers won the SB...and the Lightning the Stanley Cup (not that I follow that). And the Heat for the NBA championship and Marlins for MLB. I turn 25 soon.

so you traveled and come from money.

anyone that questions what they would do without work leads a passionless life.

I didn't see one passion that you had in anything you wrote. we are becoming a passionless society among other things.

carry on...

 

[deleted116380]

And I will probably not do academia. I like research to an extent. Without people doing research, improvements will not be made as quickly in the field since the numbers back up better methods. I did bench work research in zoology (alligator) in undergrad at UF, did statistical research with the gov't in DC, and now doing part time research in interventional procedures (oncology).

I'm surprised by the amount of docs that just want to go into work and go out and don't want to do any sort of analysis (retrospective) to improve the field in which they practice. My goal is ALWAYS to improve what I do. I'm a huge numbers-guy (partly why I'm frugal) and don't mind number-crunching. Statistics and improvement is what I like...

Don't ever expect me to be one of those docs that teach classes at the med school or tenure or all that non-sense...that ain't me.

Edit: I'm passionate about doing things with my hands. Don't care for latest and greatest tech crap (video games for instance). I'd like to build my own house one day...design and all. I like art and consider architecture one of them. Drawing is what I enjoy. Pre-mass-production-robotic assembly line crap was the best. Hand built everything FTW.

 

[thepoopologist]

I'm 27 and have done a lot of these things, and many others you haven't listed. What's your ****ing point, besides one upmanship? Maybe you would like to work until the day you die but if I end up retiring at 52, I will definitely find other things besides being bored.

Nah, don't play video games. I've already done a lot...sorta tired of it. I don't know...already been to South Africa, Iran, France, UK, Caymans, Jamaica, Bahamas, Mexico, Canada. Been to NYC (top of Empire, WTC, etc). Chicago (again all over that place). Vegas...been there...done that. Drove from there to LA...then up to SF (beautiful State).

Drive in Ferraris (F40 my favorite), drove my friend's Maserati GranTurismo and SL 55 AMG. Seen every supercar imaginable (McLaren F1, Veyron, CLK GTR, etc). Already own a sports car and don't need anything anytime soon. Done boating a lot...bored of that. My mom owns like 15 kayaks and I'm tired of that as well. We kayaked for 3 hours to Cayo Costa for camping. Kayaked all up and down east coast of central FL.

Seen at least 3 dozen space shuttle launches. Many times up close...day, dusk, night, and dawn. Felt the booms of the landings. Seen the Blue Angels, seen the Thunderbirds, seen the Raptor all fly. Seen an SR-71 blackbird. Seen the Apollo 11 capsule. Seen pretty much everything aerospace.

Did I mention I used to work for the gov't in DC? Right. So I went to see Picasso, Monet, and anyone else you can think of's paintings on my lunch break. Been in the White House (mid-90s as a kid). Walked through the Capitol Building. Went to the Library of Congress, Supreme Court, etc, whenever I wanted.

Oh, and been in the cockpit of a 747-400 during flight (South African Airways) as the sun was setting in Africa. Seeing a Concorde takeoff. Been on the TGV from Paris to London...to see my cousin get married at the London Zoo.

Right now I've been playing with my DSLR (350D Canon) for about four years and am already worn out over it. I'm pretty sure I know what to do with my time. Thanks.

P.S. My alma mater, UF, won the bball and football championships in my lifetime. Buccaneers won the SB...and the Lightning the Stanley Cup (not that I follow that). And the Heat for the NBA championship and Marlins for MLB. I turn 25 soon.

 

[deleted116380]

so you traveled and come from money.

anyone that questions what they would do without work leads a passionless life.

I didn't see one passion that you had in anything you wrote. we are becoming a passionless society among other things.

carry on...

Yeah, right, so you know me enough to claim I come from money and have no passions. LOL! My parents came to the US with nothing and spoke little english so they both went for EE majors. Paid off their debt working low wage jobs and finally got their foot in the door for engineering jobs. Worked their asses off and sacrificed a lot of their free time working and being FRUGAL (hint: staying on thread topic) to save money to be able to provide a better standard of living for their children (me and my brother). Neither of them made $100k a year when I was growing up, but damn well knew how to save it and spend it wisely. Same goes for my other friend's families that had parents immigrate.

I mentioned "travel" as retirement option because it is the most cliche response people give. So why? Probably because they realize the US doesn't have culture (McDonalds and SUVs are NOT culture) and they want to experience something different.

Thank god I'm a frugal person and spend my money (from my job) on my passions...or at least saving up for some of them. My classmates on the other hand like to blow money on eating out all the time and bs "whatever, it's only $20" expenditures. No wonder our economy is ****ed.

When someone in the US doesn't spend much and lives a normal life, they are labeled as "frugal." This is just the norm outside the US. The average American has a 0% savings rate and blows money left and right on non-sense. Overconsumption is what got us to this economic mess and it sure as hell won't get us out of it.

Maybe I'll tell you what my passions are in another thread. For now, I only suggest you live the "frugal" life under the American definition. Billions of others wish they had your opportunity to be here in the US and make a living.

P.S. For the docs that bitch about getting a pay cut from $650k to $450k, deal with it. If you can't live on $450k, you don't know how to handle money.

 

[mx_599]

And I will probably not do academia. I like research to an extent. Without people doing research, improvements will not be made as quickly in the field since the numbers back up better methods. I did bench work research in zoology (alligator) in undergrad at UF, did statistical research with the gov't in DC, and now doing part time research in interventional procedures (oncology).

I'm surprised by the amount of docs that just want to go into work and go out and don't want to do any sort of analysis (retrospective) to improve the field in which they practice. My goal is ALWAYS to improve what I do. I'm a huge numbers-guy (partly why I'm frugal) and don't mind number-crunching. Statistics and improvement is what I like...

Don't ever expect me to be one of those docs that teach classes at the med school or tenure or all that non-sense...that ain't me.

Edit: I'm passionate about doing things with my hands. Don't care for latest and greatest tech crap (video games for instance). I'd like to build my own house one day...design and all. I like art and consider architecture one of them. Drawing is what I enjoy. Pre-mass-production-robotic assembly line crap was the best. Hand built everything FTW.

 

[mx_599]

Yeah, right, so you know me enough to claim I come from money and have no passions. LOL! My parents came to the US with nothing and spoke little english so they both went for EE majors. Paid off their debt working low wage jobs and finally got their foot in the door for engineering jobs. Worked their asses off and sacrificed a lot of their free time working and being FRUGAL (hint: staying on thread topic) to save money to be able to provide a better standard of living for their children (me and my brother). Neither of them made $100k a year when I was growing up, but damn well knew how to save it and spend it wisely. Same goes for my other friend's families that had parents immigrate.

I mentioned "travel" as retirement option because it is the most cliche response people give. So why? Probably because they realize the US doesn't have culture (McDonalds and SUVs are NOT culture) and they want to experience something different.

Thank god I'm a frugal person and spend my money (from my job) on my passions...or at least saving up for some of them. My classmates on the other hand like to blow money on eating out all the time and bs "whatever, it's only $20" expenditures. No wonder our economy is ****ed.

When someone in the US doesn't spend much and lives a normal life, they are labeled as "frugal." This is just the norm outside the US. The average American has a 0% savings rate and blows money left and right on non-sense. Overconsumption is what got us to this economic mess and it sure as hell won't get us out of it.

Maybe I'll tell you what my passions are in another thread. For now, I only suggest you live the "frugal" life under the American definition. Billions of others wish they had your opportunity to be here in the US and make a living.

P.S. For the docs that bitch about getting a pay cut from $650k to $450k, deal with it. If you can't live on $450k, you don't know how to handle money.

I misjudged you.

we need more like you to dedicate themselves to healthcare. don't forget about prevention along the way. what you think you might know about nutrition and exercise might not be the case. you have to know where we came from before you could possibly understand how bad we're becoming.

not everything has to be a study to be true.

good luck

 

[avatarftw]

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[avatarftw]

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[bowzer]

Whatever you want. That's the point.

being able to do whatever you want means nothing if your life doesnt have any purpose. You will get old fast if you have no purpose in life other than to just waste time.

I agree with everything else that was said though. Freedom is important and i love fiscal responsibility, saving, and staying away from debt. However, I still expect to do meaningful and productive things until i check out.

 

[RADRULES]

Life is too short to live in a crappy house. You will spend a lot of your life in your home - it will be a place full of memories and the place you will escape too after another brutal day of work. You will raise you kids there and grow old there.

It is, in my opinion, worth spending some money on it to get something you really like or love.

As a doctor, you should be able to afford a great house without it hurting you financially unless you waste money on other crap.

Cars, to me, are a huge waste of money. They depreciate like crazy and the love affair lasts a short time.

 

[avatarftw]

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[avatarftw]

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[deleted116380]

Wow, your life experiences own mine! However, I wouldn't have listed Canada as a place that you've visited. It pales in comparison to the other places. You're only 24 also?!!!

Um, I've graduated college and ran in a mud race for the first time recently. Lame-sauce.

I graduated college a year early so I had 3 years of work before going to med school. Gave me extra time and money to do what I wanted. Plus, I went to a state school (UF) at no cost since I am a FL resident and it was pretty easy to get a full ride. No debt upon graduation. FTW. 3 years of living expenses (technically 33 months) in a cheap college town helped. Spent maybe $900 a month max for living expenses.

Life is too short to live in a crappy house. You will spend a lot of your life in your home - it will be a place full of memories and the place you will escape too after another brutal day of work. You will raise you kids there and grow old there.

It is, in my opinion, worth spending some money on it to get something you really like or love.

As a doctor, you should be able to afford a great house without it hurting you financially unless you waste money on other crap.

Cars, to me, are a huge waste of money. They depreciate like crazy and the love affair lasts a short time.

"crappy" house doesn't have to mean anything other than a McMansion. You would be surprised at the markup construction puts on those homes. I knew a couple kids in high school who had families in real estate development. They made a killing to say the least. I never understood why some people would pay so much for a house given the quality it was. My advice would be to buy a nice piece of land and spend the rest on a modest size house (3,500 sq ft is huge).

Cars are sometimes great investment pieces, but not all the time. The Ferrari F40 I mentioned earlier was owned by a physician at the time. It was his dream car growing up so after he saved like crazy, he bought it....for about $425,000. You'd say he's crazy for spending that much on a 1991 car (this was 2005 mind you). Then the Ferrari market went crazy for a few years....3 years later he decided to sell as prices got his car up to $650ish. He didn't enjoy driving it because he was worried about something happening to it. I don't blame him...I wouldn't buy a car like that.

Another example is Jay Leno's McLaren F1. New was $1mm or thereabouts. He bought it a couple years old in the 90s for $800k. Now it's over $2.5mm and he won't sell. He said it's the best investment he's made without having to do a thing to the car. If you know the market well enough, you can make money. I personally am happy with my used $13k Japanese sports car. Reliable, fun, and cheap to maintain. No plans to ever sell it so depreciation doesn't matter.

I don't understand why people buy Mercedes-Benz, BMW, etc, brand new. They depreciate incredible amounts both in % and absolute dollars. i.e. a Mercedes S600 is well over $125k new, but surprisingly is under $30k about 7 years later. The reason is the cost to maintain is so much and MB built so many and they aren't hard to find. If a doc wants that kind of car, lease it and write it off as a business expense for your practice.

Wait, how did you do all of those unique and exotic activities if you come from a relatively modest background?

My parents (extremely frugal) were very similar to yours but we never had kayaks or partook in your type of activities. (read: expensive)

I grew up in FL, which is a pretty cheap state to live in. We didn't have an expensive home and my parents were determined to take us on a family vacation once a year. We normally traveled overseas to visit family (France and UK) or stayed within North America. Road trips up the east coast to Connecticut (family there) and then up to upstate New York and Canada to visit more. Same for the trip to California. Only South Africa and Caribbean didn't involve having family there. Saves a lot of money not paying for a hotel for most of the trip.

My mom started to spend more on her activities after my brother and I graduated high school (she didn't have to pay for our post-high school education or anything). She likes outdoor stuff and is now crazy about kayaking and goes every weekend and runs her own club. Her and her siblings like all that outdoor stuff. They all flew to Mt. Kilamanjaro to climb that, went to Peru and climbed some mountain there (forgot the name), and other places.

I knew a lot of kids at my high school whose parents were well off (business owners) so we did a lot of stuff there as well and I still hang out around them. We're all in some grad program at the moment...dental, med, law, etc. Lots of freedom before I turned 18...had so little responsibility then, LOL!