Former drug addict and now medical school? CHANCES!?

[theloveprotein]

HEY! I will be applying to medical school this summer and need some thoughts/advice/positive or negative feedback on three questions. Thanks for everything!


First, how do I explain my academic dismissal in 2005? do I skip the details and summarize immature/lost child behavior in 1 or 2 setences or what???

During high school I started experimenting with drugs (everything except smack). When I arrived at my states university, I did not have anyone watching over me so I took advantage of this. Surprisingly, over the course of the first year I received 2 F's, 2 D's and 6 C's. This was a reality slap in the face...my dad beat the **** out of me to "wake" me up. After talking to the advisers, I was let back into the same state school. I stopped all the crazy, immature drug use and only have smoked/drank since then, nothing else . AND 4 years after failing out, I got involved in school and doing great (stats are below)

Why medical school? LOVE helping/giving advice to others, love learning and have this weird dire need to be involved with my families health and treatment. (moms health is deteriorating)



Raw synopsis of my AMCAS application:

****AMCAS GPA: 3.45 overall GPA, 3.96 science GPA
AMCAS AO GPA: ~2.6 (took all science courses)

*PAST 3 YEARS of school I received only 3 B's.




EC's:

Production Manager/Designer : 7 years (3000+ hrs)


Research:

Plant Molecular Biology - 2.5 years-present (1000+ hrs):
Behavioral Ecology - 6 months :
Biochemistry based - 6 month



Awards and Honors:
2 Monetary research Awards
Graduating with university honors
dean lists for 4 years
etc etc

Organizations:

Wildlife society - 2 years -
Biology honors society - 2 years

Clinical Experience:
I spent few weeks in ER just observing (15+ hrs)
Unit Volunteer:
Few months restocking patient rooms and assisting patients with trivial tasks. (50+ hrs)


I simply do not have the time to participate in volunteer hours or shadowing with my job/school/research. Although the little hours I have spent in thehospital allowed to me to solidify my decision to become a doctor.

Second, will these low clinical hours keep me from medical school?

MCAT:
projected 25-31. Taking this in July, but have taken two practice exams.



Third, WHAT ARE MY CHANCES?
I will apply to probably 50+ schools.

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[starfishprime]

The chance you'll get accepted depends in large measure on your MCAT score and on how forthcoming you are with your moral turpitude.

The chance I'd trust you to provide medical care for me or my family, given your admittedly bad moral character and frequent use of cocaine and crystal meth? Exquisitely low. I'm guessing admissions personnel would probably tend to come down on my side, too.

Hell, you couldn't enlist in the Army with your history; why should you be trusted to be a physician?

 

[sling787]

You need a lot more clinical experience than the 15 hours. Other than that though your E.C's and science GPA are amazing. If you get that 31+ and boost your clinical experience by a lot, you should be golden. Getting 100+ hours of clinical experience shouldn't be hard anyways even with the few months left before the June cycle. Leave out the part about the drug addiction.

 

[BigD311]

Here are some things that popped into my mind reading this:

I congratulate you on your turn around, however, I have my doubts and I think so will an adcom.

You attended no support groups since you cut the drugs out so what do you have in your life right now that is stopping you from starting up again.

There is a fairly high instance of drug use among doctors because of easy access..I feel as though if your drug history is brought up, this will be a worry for some.

I would also question how you handle stress. Med school is a whole different level of stress and in the past, you have not shown a good track record of healthy behavior or a health lifestyle.

To be blunt, you are a recovering drug addict. You have openly admitted this and cited it as your source of struggle. You will be compared to other people who have struggled because their family member got sick or because they had no money to attend school so they worked their way through school while balancing a tough course load. Why should they pick you over them?

I can't answer that because I am not an adcom and maybe you do have a reason why they should choose you. If you would like to share then Id be happy to read and respond, but I think these are all things you need to think about.

 

[amichael2587]

Just curious how you have a 3.9 in sciGPA. Did you not take any science classes freshmen year?

 

[theloveprotein]

Thanks for replying. I appreciate and respect your opinions. It seems that I just need more clinical hours and a decent MCAT store. I know I will still have a stigma associated with my name but I hope that committees will see past that and recognize my potential.

If I understand correctly, the potential is based on MCAT/GPA and the time spent with EC activities. The more hours spent with EC's/volunteer/working, the less time the applicant had to study for class. And if the applicant can spend minimal time and get A's then he or she can manage a harder course load given more time. If I the applicant can show this, even with my stigma, I do not see why they would favor rejecting me.

I understand the concerns adcoms and others would have by allowing a recovering drug addict to matriculate. BUT, what more can I do to prove to adcoms/others that I am a trustworthy and capable candidate?

It's becoming clear to me that discussing any drug related issues in a personal statement is a sure way to get rejected. Maybe it would be best to leave this out completely. This may seem as though I am hiding from my past but I guess if it did not have an impact on my decision to become a doctor then it should be left out.

The 3.96 science GPA was possible because I only took 1 math course my freshmen year. So, after freshmen year I took mainly BCPM courses which fit right into my B.S - Biology major with Chemistry minor track. But my AO GPA is hurting because of freshmen year and the degrees I choose to pursue.

 

[mmagnett]

is it not true that doctors help people to get off drugs to do positive things with the rest of their lives? i would think it hypocritical for an adcom to not admit you for your drug abuse. doctors always make it seem like "hey, we're all on the same level here" but then when it comes to joining their ranks, all of a sudden there is a higher moral code (which i kinda agree with to be honest)

That being said, it is a bit of a jump to allow you access to writing prescriptions for highly addictive or illegal drugs. after all, a doc can write a script for cocaine/marijuana etc.

you are in a unique spot and the only way to know is to apply. if you dont get in, there are other careers out there that might suit you. if you enjoy counseling and communicating with people, why not clinical psychology? you would have a unique bond with other recovering drug addicts and would not be allowed to prescribe drugs (thats a really crazy thing to say, but hey.. thats why you posted here i guess) & its damn interesting stuff.

 

[megamega]

I think the OP should be honest about the drug use.

 

[starfishprime]

By the way, I am under the impression that felony convictions (involving moral turpitude?) preclude one from obtaining a medical license in many states. So then, Mr. Protein, did you ever get popped for anything, including misdemeanors, that mummy and daddy did not get dismissed/expunged?

 

[theloveprotein]

No I have a clean record except two speeding tickets and an academic dismissal.

This dismissal will be cleared by 'immature and thoughtless behavior over the course of my freshmen year'. And then I will move on to more attractive qualities and experiences.


I guess being the atypical applicant is advantageous now-a-days with so many mundane candidates.


Thank you for your opinions!

 

[Mobius1985]

The application process will become a business expense, , so I will apply to probably 50+ schools.

Is that legal?

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

Is that legal?

no, but neither is illicit drug use.

that kind of mentality/history would make the OP a great fit for a job on Wall St.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I don't know whether I love or hate the OP.

I think there definitely is something to be said for those who have seen the dark side and have repented. Doctors have the same rate of psychosis as the general population, and who is to say if once someone becomes a doctor, having never drank or tried drugs, and they start then, that they would go down the same path the OP did, albiet earlier in his/her life.

On the other hand, trust fund babies who trip ballz and go to their wealthy parents second/third/fourth homes nauseate me to the ends of this earth.

Those who have so much given to them, have that much more expected of them.

Sorry OP, I'll pass...

 

[anoncurious]

hmm..well, if you don't talk about the drug addiction, then you're going to have to come up with some pretty great story about your first year grades..and if you slip up and they find out that you are lying..then that = automatic rejection.

On the other hand..drug addict + 25 mcat = automatic rejection to even DO and Caribbean schools

it'll be very tough to say the least..

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

hmm..well, if you don't talk about the drug addiction, then you're going to have to come up with some pretty great story about your first year grades..and if you slip up and they find out that you are lying..then that = automatic rejection.

On the other hand..drug addict + 25 mcat = automatic rejection to even DO and Caribbean schools

it'll be very tough to say the least..

calling it "an addiction" might even be a stretch of the imagination in itself... perhaps to make the OP seem victimized/powerless??? usually it takes more than being spanked by daddy for a real addict to get/stay sober.

 

[starfishprime]

usually it takes more than being spanked by daddy for a real addict to get/stay sober.

I smell a publication.

starfishprime42, WeAreNotRobots: Parental flagellation in management of habitual drug abuse in adolescents: a case-control study. N Engl J Med, 2009.

 

[megamega]

I don't know whether I love or hate the OP.

I think there definitely is something to be said for those who have seen the dark side and have repented. Doctors have the same rate of psychosis as the general population, and who is to say if once someone becomes a doctor, having never drank or tried drugs, and they start then, that they would go down the same path the OP did, albiet earlier in his/her life.

On the other hand, trust fund babies who trip ballz and go to their wealthy parents second/third/fourth homes nauseate me to the ends of this earth.

Those who have so much given to them, have that much more expected of them.

Sorry OP, I'll pass...

I totally agree

 

[Upgrayedd]

I guess being the atypical applicant is advantageous now-a-days with so many mundane candidates.

Atypical like being in a Broadway play or running in the Olympics, or surviving a life-altering disease. All those are advantageous to the admissions process.

Doing drugs and failing out of school is a bit of a stretch by any measure.

Your GPA is below average, so unless you can get an MCAT well above the average for accepted medical students, you could apply to 100 schools, but your still way to much of a liability.

 

[chief illiniwek]

your application is quite strong other than the academic dismissal, so if you can manage to skirt the situation, you definitely have a chance at med school. however, if you want to bring this up your troubles in applications, you must do it very, very carefully. adcoms are typically uptight and want perfect candidates, so you will definitely get some immediate rejections for this. however, if you can prove to them that your addiction is 100% behind you and that you learned something important from it or that it made you stronger, it would turn into a positive in my eyes.

regarding some of the comments people have posted here, i dont see why you would make light of the situation or take shots at the OP - he was just trying to seek advice from his peers to help make a serious life decision.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

your application is quite strong other than the academic dismissal, so if you can manage to skirt the situation, you definitely have a chance at med school. however, if you want to bring this up your troubles in applications, you must do it very, very carefully. adcoms are typically uptight and want perfect candidates, so you will definitely get some immediate rejections for this. however, if you can prove to them that your addiction is 100% behind you and that you learned something important from it or that it made you stronger, it would turn into a positive in my eyes.

regarding some of the comments people have posted here, i dont see why you would make light of the situation or take shots at the OP - he was just trying to seek advice from his peers to help make a serious life decision.

it's a serious decision with serious consequences, yes, and he wants to be dishonest about his past (which you and others have recommended...wow!) and cheat the system by taking advantage of his father's business. doctors aren't perfect people, but that doesn't mean we should encourage immoral/unethical behavior and irresponsibility. have you noticed the economy?

 

[Nanon]

From the description you've provided here, it also sounds to me like you were a heavy drug user, but not necessarily a drug addict. In either case, avoid talking about it directly on your application. I'm far more perturbed by the fact that you would brag about where you had your binges on an open internet forum (summer homes, etc.). It doesn't sound like you've learned much about yourself in the process. But who knows?

 

[chessknt]

Gj SDN, you just helped this guy (an addict who self-recovered but still exhibits profound moral immaturity) figure out how to lie his way into med school. I pity the patients who will one day be under his care should his goodwill toward people ever bend or break during the harsh residency years.

 

[BigD311]

why medicine anyway?

 

[chief illiniwek]

it's a serious decision with serious consequences, yes, and he wants to be dishonest about his past (which you and others have recommended...wow!) and cheat the system by taking advantage of his father's business. doctors aren't perfect people, but that doesn't mean we should encourage immoral/unethical behavior and irresponsibility. have you noticed the economy?

first of all, he is not required to bring up the situation in his application, so i dont see how that constitutes dishonesty. also, the adcom will be curious about his academic dismissal and is free to ask questions, so its not like he would be erasing the situation from his history completely. finally, i wasnt encouraging unethical behavior, im simply stating that people should be granted a second chance - anyone else here would expect the same.

 

[starfishprime]

im simply stating that people should be granted a second chance - anyone else here would expect the same.

That is a deeply unrefined view; there are plenty of people who don't deserve a second chance, people like murderers and rapists. I'm not saying that the OP should be locked up for the rest of his life, but I am saying that he's aiming for a certain profession. Medicine is a special case; physicians are (and should be) expected to be of exemplary moral character. Exemplary moral character does not preclude a single joint at a party one time, but you should damn well believe it precludes habitual, unapologetic hard drug users.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

first of all, he is not required to bring up the situation in his application, so i dont see how that constitutes dishonesty. also, the adcom will be curious about his academic dismissal and is free to ask questions, so its not like he would be erasing the situation from his history completely. finally, i wasnt encouraging unethical behavior, im simply stating that people should be granted a second chance - anyone else here would expect the same.

of course the adcom/interviewers will ask "what happened that year?" and this is where the honesty/ethics comes into play. no one expects him to list "elicit drug use" as one of his 15 activities.

second chances should not be granted to anyone that tries to "skirt" (your word) around their mistakes. usually second chances are given to those that come to terms with what they did wrong, accept the responsibility of what they did wrong, and plan to take action to prevent such things from happening again. none of which the OP has shown any signs of doing. hence, he has received the attitude/comments he has received.

 

[coffeebythelake]

"Drug abuse" but probably not "drug addict". If it ever comes up in an application essay or interview, careful using the appropriate medical terms.

 

[anoncurious]

your application is quite strong other than the academic dismissal,

lol, what are you talking about? low gpa + really low mcat does not equal 'quite strong'..I doubt this guy ever become a doctor

 

[chief illiniwek]

That is a deeply unrefined view; there are plenty of people who don't deserve a second chance, people like murderers and rapists. I'm not saying that the OP should be locked up for the rest of his life, but I am saying that he's aiming for a certain profession. Medicine is a special case; physicians are (and should be) expected to be of exemplary moral character. Exemplary moral character does not preclude a single joint at a party one time, but you should damn well believe it precludes habitual, unapologetic hard drug users.

there are plenty of physicians out there that have less than the exemplary moral character you are referring to - but that doesn't mean they are bad physicians.

 

[chief illiniwek]

second chances should not be granted to anyone that tries to "skirt" (your word) around their mistakes. usually second chances are given to those that come to terms with what they did wrong, accept the responsibility of what they did wrong, and plan to take action to prevent such things from happening again. none of which the OP has shown any signs of doing. hence, he has received the attitude/comments he has received.

i didn't say i condoned skirting the issue on applications. in fact, if i were in this situation, i would come right out with it...and then explain as thoroughly as possible what what actions i took to rectify the problem and what i learned from it. its not completely clear from his posts whether the OP has overcome this problem or not, but im assuming there are things that he didn't divulge here that would allow an adcom to see the truth.

lol, what are you talking about? low gpa + really low mcat does not equal 'quite strong'..I doubt this guy ever become a doctor

he's done alot of research, has an obvious upward trend in grades, and hasn't even taken the MCAT yet. while that might not be great based on SDN standards, I would say if he can get a 30+ on the MCAT, a little bit of clinical experience, and some good LORs (which is all very possible), that would make for a pretty strong application.

 

[987]

I would tell anyone who thinks they can't get in no matter what apply!!!! I thought it was impossible and I found out yesterday I got in!!!!! You can do it if you have the passion and drive to do it! My stats were stacked against me!! Good luck to everyone!

 

[mmagnett]

the past few leaders of the free world had a little blow... why not give this guy a chance, ya know??

<---withdrawing from the application process to pursue a degree in Rapping at the University of Dr. Dre

 

[Crazyday]

From a purely pragmatic point of view, do not mention the previous drug addiction anywhere, anytime if you want to have any hope of getting in. Not only is a previous drug addiction an automatic black mark, you don't seem to have really overcome that moral depravity. If you mention it, and they inquire about why you're suddenly free from this addiction, and you tell them what you told us, they'll laugh and kick you right out the door.

While you think overcoming a drug addiction is a good case of overcoming adversity, it's really not. Moreover, it's a sign of weakness. When they're choosing between someone with a perfect moral and personal record, and someone who once succumbed to illegal substance use (and could very likely relapse), who do you think they're going to pick?

When they're choosing between someone who overcame an adversity forced on them, and not one they took upon themselves, and someone who overcame a drug addiction, who do you think they'll pick?

Now on an ethical level, we don't know how often you smoke and drink (I'm assuming you mean smoking marijuana). You certainly don't radiate an aura of "I was bad and now I'm holy", but more like maybe you didn't learn too much from your experience. But I don't think any of us can read into you well enough to really determine that, so I don't think any of us are qualified to say "oh you're a bad person, you should never become a doctor", and that's not what these forums are for either.

Since you don't have a criminal record, there should be no way for anyone to know that you were a previous substance abuser unless you reveal it yourself (or if they can find out your identity on here I suppose). And I think you can see the foolishness that would be.

Good luck.

 

[BluntSurgeon]

Dr. Dre

Well OP, if Dr. Dre can be a doctor (especially with a song like **** the police) then you probably can be one too.

 

[Handinhand]

So you still smoke? Weed? I hate to sound like a jackass because personally I don't think pot is anything terrible to do, but it is illegal in this country, and it just doesn't sound like you're serious about breaking your ties with the past.

 

[theloveprotein]

Thanks for all the input! However, I feel that alot of responses were hits at my past drug use and ultimately, how that would make me a bad physician. I know some people here on SDN are just angels and have not been exposed to such matters. These are the same people who had a litany of reasons why I am unethical, immature, not ready, no hope and don't bother applying to medical school. I understand why people respond that way, and that's ok.

Thankfully, I know people who have drug use in their past and are physicians/medical students. The doctor I know mentioned it in his PS and my friends in medical school did not. I was just wondering what the SDN community thought...

Wow, I really wish I would have just skipped the details and asked 'What are my chances' and listed the facts. I would like advice on getting into medical school, not comments questioning my character. Sorry, just a little fired up. Thanks for even taking the time to read this!


What are my chances? What do I need improvement on?

B.S - Biological Sciences - Plant Pathology
Minor - Chemistry
Working towards second degree in Biochemistry
Working towards Math Minor

GPA PAST 4 Years = 3.9 GPA and 3.9 BCPM

3.45 AMCAS GPA - my first year of college (i was a little lost/immature/unethical/horrible person)

First practice MCAT - 25
Second practice MCAT - 31
actual MCAT - June 17th 2pm

*****
Work
Graphic and Web page Design: 10 Years - 1000 + hours

Production Manager (tech. based): 5 years - 3000+ hours

Research:

Plant Biology Research: 3 years - 1000+ hours

Biochemistry Research: 5 months
Behavioral Ecology Research: 6 months

Awards/Honors:
2 monetary research awards
University Honors
Other honor societies
Dean lists for 4 years

For fun:
Wildlife Society: 2 years - Officer
Biology Honors Society: 2 years - Member

Clinical:
ER just observing: 10hrs
Unit Volunteer in Hospital: 70 hrs

Applying to 30+ Schools ( all state, low tier, carib schools)

 

[chessknt]

Thanks for all the input! However, I feel that alot of responses were hits at my past drug use and ultimately, how that would make me a bad physician. I know some people here on SDN are just angels and have not been exposed to such matters. These are the same people who had a litany of reasons why I am unethical, immature, not ready, no hope and don't bother applying to medical school. I understand why people respond that way, and that's ok.

Actually many of us have but had the moral fortitude to not succumb to self-destructive practices that impact other people around us negatively as well.

Your character is more important than your grades in this process since a doctor is not a robot that computes prescriptions, but rather a provider that is, in most cases, implicitly trusted to have the patient's best interests at heart. Adcoms are responsible for selecting individuals that display both the moral and intellectual caliber required for someone in a position of power over another person's life. Given that you have failed to demonstrate (or provide some sort of explanation that you have) this type of moral strength, you are an unfit candidate to enter this profession no matter what your MCAT/GPA are (sorry, but your dad beating the **** out of you is not a convincing argument that you wont go back to using drugs when you are surrounded by them and have easy nearly undetectable access to them).

 

[TieuBachHo]

theloveofprotein,

Don't get discourage with your past. You should from now on try to focus more on your future rendering that you are a new person. Some of advices here may be blunt and harsh but that's how they interpret it from your tone. The SDN members' views probably allign pretty much closely with what you will be confronted with. You should be humble and honest when being asked about your school dismissal. Be prepared with discreet answers. Most importantly, they need assurance that you've grown out of it.

However, would you give yourself up or work harder just because someone says you can't? Good luck!

 

[chief illiniwek]

Wow, I really wish I would have just skipped the details and asked 'What are my chances' and listed the facts. I would like advice on getting into medical school, not comments questioning my character. Sorry, just a little fired up. Thanks for even taking the time to read this!

you must be new here.

have you ever heard the line, "the stick up that guy's butt must have a stick up its butt"? (from some TV show/movie but I can't remember what right now) that's the SDN crowd in a nutshell. there is some truth in what has been said here, but there's definitely no need to get worked up about it.

edit: that quote is from the simpsons. more specifically, superintendent chalmers referring to principal skinner. great episode.

 

[chessknt]

Clearly cocaine and speed are harmless and have no effect on your life. Dont get so worked up man!

 

[chief illiniwek]

Clearly cocaine and speed are harmless and have no effect on your life. Dont get so worked up man!

Thanks for illustrating my point. At no point have I condoned the use of hard drugs like you are talking about, but I was simply responding to the OPs comment about everyone questioning his character. Basically, the majority of med students are conservative and strictly opposed to any illegal activity. So, even though none of us have met the OP or could possibly understand his situation, this reaction should have been expected.

 

[billybob69]

chsknut...you are an idiot

 

[chessknt]

Thanks for illustrating my point. At no point have I condoned the use of hard drugs like you are talking about, but I was simply responding to the OPs comment about everyone questioning his character. Basically, the majority of med students are conservative and strictly opposed to any illegal activity. So, even though none of us have met the OP or could possibly understand his situation, this reaction should have been expected.

Telling people not to get worked up about history in hard drug use is akin to condoning it.

 

[Depakote]

please keep the discussion in this thread civil. thanks.

 

[chief illiniwek]

please keep the discussion in this thread civil. thanks.

ill tone it down it a little, but honestly, i didn't think we had gotten that bad.

 

[student1799]

[...]you don't seem to have really overcome that moral depravity. [...]

While you think overcoming a drug addiction is a good case of overcoming adversity, it's really not. Moreover, it's a sign of weakness.

I agree that it will be quite difficult for the OP to get into med school if he admits a drug history. But beyond that, I was really struck by all the moral judgements in your post: "Moral depravity"? "Sign of weakness"? You seem to be unaware of the fact, but the doctors are supposed to TREAT their patients, rather than JUDGE them. What are you going to do as a medical resident when you may have to treat drug addicts as patients? Will you refuse to treat a diabetic for complications because they ate candy and didn't take their insulin? After all, that's a sign of weakness.

Moreover, you don't seem to realize that alcohol and drug dependence are now widely recognized as medical disorders. According to Wikipedia, JAMA classifies alcoholism as a "primary, chronic disease," while alcoholism and substance abuse are both listed in the DSM-IV manual of psychiatric disorders. Notice I didn't say "the DSM-IV manual of moral depravity."

I have never used drugs, nor do I condone their use. But as a grown-up who is decades older than you, Mr./Ms. High School Junior, I strongly suggest that you live a lot more life with your eyes open and your mouth shut before you presume to judge the lives of others.

 

[rHinO1]

I agree that it will be quite difficult for the OP to get into med school if he admits a drug history. But beyond that, I was really struck by all the moral judgements in your post: "Moral depravity"? "Sign of weakness"? You seem to be unaware of the fact, but the doctors are supposed to TREAT their patients, rather than JUDGE them. What are you going to do as a medical resident when you may have to treat drug addicts as patients? Will you refuse to treat a diabetic for complications because they ate candy and didn't take their insulin? After all, that's a sign of weakness.

Moreover, you don't seem to realize that alcohol and drug dependence are now widely recognized as medical disorders. According to Wikipedia, JAMA classifies alcoholism as a "primary, chronic disease," while alcoholism and substance abuse are both listed in the DSM-IV manual of psychiatric disorders. Notice I didn't say "the DSM-IV manual of moral depravity."

I have never used drugs, nor do I condone their use. But as a grown-up who is decades older than you, Mr./Ms. High School Junior, I strongly suggest that you live a lot more life with your eyes open and your mouth shut before you presume to judge the lives of others.

Well said. People make mistakes. The OP may not have presented himself in the best possible way on this thread, but atleast he was honest. I agree, you should learn from how people have responded here and not bring up your drug addiction in interviews. I would explain my past grades/withdrawals as a product of my immaturity and lack of commitment to school. Which is true, no dishonesty in that statement. I would tell the adcom's that I have since grown as a person and my more recent course work reflects that. Good luck.

 

[chessknt]

I find it interesting that so many people find it morally acceptable to dance around the drug use just because he didnt get caught. Just tell part of the truth and youll be fine AND be able to sleep at night what a deal!

And to the other poster--judging future doctors is not the same as judging patients. The OP isnt asking for medical advice, he wants to become a person that gives other people medical advice. Citing JAMA labels for "conditions" that are the result of a lapse in personal responsibility does not absolve the "victim" of fault.

 

[student1799]

And to the other poster--judging future doctors is not the same as judging patients. The OP isnt asking for medical advice, he wants to become a person that gives other people medical advice. Citing JAMA labels for "conditions" that are the result of a lapse in personal responsibility does not absolve the "victim" of fault.

I was not addressing the OP's personal situation at all. Rather, I was reacting the language of Crazyday's post, such as "previous drug addiction ...that moral depravity," which suggests that s/he views drug addiction as a form of moral depravity. My point was that applying moral judgments to medical conditions is a poor attitude for a prospective physician--even more so when you don't even know the person or the circumstances involved.

I am absolutely not defending the OP's behavior--my whole point is that I don't know a thing about that behavior, so I don't feel qualified to judge. But it's pretty surprising to me that many others here have no such reservations.

Citing JAMA labels for "conditions" that are the result of a lapse in personal responsibility does not absolve the "victim" of fault.

I don't make up the diagnostic criteria, and neither do you. If you have a problem with the "conditions" that are defined in JAMA or the DSM-IV, I suggest you write to them and state your objections.

I also find a very interesting double standard here. If someone who is labeled a "patient" walks in the door suffering from substance abuse, medical ethics tells us that said patient has a medical disorder, and that they must be treated with dignity, compassion and respect. Yet if a person labeled a "prospective physician" has the exact same disorder, they are to be morally judged and treated with scorn.

Again, I am not presuming to comment on the OP's personal situation or application to medical school. But it amazes me that no one here sees the inherent contradiction in stripping human beings of any right to humane and compassionate treatment once they declare their desire to be in a "helping profession."

 

[virusgirl]

Chessknt and Student, I actually think you're both right. The OP's drug use -- and apparent lack of insight in reflecting upon it -- is concerning. If I were on an adcom, ANY significant drug use would be a big red flag, and if the applicant hadn't demonstrated significant personal growth and accountability subsequent to the drug use, I would almost certainly err on the side of caution and reject them. Given the high rate of relapse, the applicant in question would have to make a VERY STRONG case for themselves -- and evidence of personal integrity would be key.

But student, you are right in that we shouldn't necessarily vilify the OP. The original post definitely makes me worried, but since I don't have the complete picture, it isn't really my place to judge. However, since the OP's drug use could potentially impact upon their ability to safely treat patients (and loveprotein, I don't mean that as a personal attack; I simply don't know you, and in light of relapse data I have no idea how strong your committment to staying clean is). When I treat patients who make poor decisions, of course I'm going to give them the same compassionate care that I would anyone else. But when I encounter a doctor, or someone who wants to be a doctor, who makes bad decisions that could potentially harm patients, I would feel compelled to voice my strong concern.