? for KCOM students

[NKMU]

i was fortunate enough to be accepted to KCOM for the class of 2007. my experience with KCOM so far has been great-- they just sent me a "we're here for you, don't panic" card today, and everyone went out of his/her way to make me feel comfortable at the interview. they even sent me a christsmas card before i was invited for an interview!

question: does this supportive attitude toward students continue throughout the medical school years? i've heard a couple times (on SDN and elsewhere) that more than a few first-year students fail out of KCOM, and i wonder why that is. even my interviewer told me "our curriculum is very challenging-- a several students fail out every year."

i'm sure that students fail out of all schools for various reasons, but i wonder why i've heard about it at KCOM and not at other schools. were i to choose KCOM, i doubt i'd be in danger of failing, but i'd like to hear what current students have to say about the issue.

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[murphman]

I am not @ KCOM but....
I was accepted there, and the only reason I did not go was b/c i was admitted to my state school also (lower tuition).
I know three KCOM grads and three students there now. When i decided not to go to KCOM my wife was devestated b/c of the reputaion that it has such a suportive and nuturing environment. But, don't kid yourself... KCOm is the original. You better believe it is tough. People fail out of every school, but i do believe that KCOM is serious. Example: One of my good friends left KCOM getting a 93rd percentile or USMLE and better than that on COMPLEX. The other fiend of mine is entering a ortho residency. He wasn't even the top guy in his class. He is in a MD EM residency now. Anyway, KCOM is a great education. Don't be nervous about failing, just give it your all and you will de fine.
later

 

[John DO]

KCOM has most definitely been supportive of MY education. I am an MSII at KCOM and have been very pleased with how friendly and supportive the administration and faculty are.

Have I had difficulties? Oh, yes!
Have I disagreed with administrative decisions? Most certainly!

This IS the real world, however, and I understand that these circumstances will arise. I think that KCOM bends over backwards to make this a pleasant experience, even as they make it a challenging one. The previous poster was correct in that KCOM maintains the highest average score on COMLEX and our USMLE scores are above the national average for allopathic schools. Our grads go on to residencies at some of the best programs in the country. However, what matters most is what fits for YOU. I am happy here because I have forged excellent friendships with my colleagues and because my wife is happy with the supportive environment she has encountered.

Don't let the anecdotal stories of "failing out" scare you. I have checked (out of my own concern) and KCOM's attrition rate is comparable to other schools when you consider only the students who actually failed out (those are the students other schools count, too). We do seem to have students who just choose to leave, for one reason or another; but, you can avoid that situation by making sure you fit well. For example, if you can't stand being in a small town, Kirksville is not for you! I have friends in Osteopathic and Allopathic schools elsewhere and have compared our attrition rate, failures and inclusive, and we compare to both types of schools.

Everyone may not agree, but I can say that MY experience has been extremely positive and that I have always found the support I needed on this journey.

 

[rbassdo]

I'm an MS-I and would have have to second the above poster. KCOM is tough, but the faculty are super supportive. Most of my fellow students are genuinely kind, non-competitive, helpful, and easy to befriend. It's a "family" type of atmosphere. Sure, I don't like everything the powers that be choose to do, but you get the feeling that they've been doing things right for a long long time and they know what's best. Board scores are second to none, and I'm looking forward to taking the COMLEX and USMLE. Apparently, there have been more KCOM grads going to allopathic residencies than osteopathic - over the last few years combined. I think that's positive. Also, I spoke with a dean just a couple of days ago and he informed me that KCOM is working closely with the University of Kansas Medical School, on initiating a 3rd and 4th year rotation site at the U of K Medical Center. If you're hard core osteopathic, you might not like that, but I think it's great.

Lastly, I know that a about 5 people have left KCOM for a variety of reasons since the fall. A few students were "5th yeared" which means they didn't pass a class, but did well enough to be given a chance to take it again next year. Lastly, the word on the street is that 3rd (spring) quarter is the one where the most students fail out. I guess we'll see. Okay...that's enough.

Best wishes NKMU,

Ryan

 

[OldManDave]

I am about to graduate from KCOM and YES, their supportive attitude continues throughout your time there. I had to cope with several outside issues: missed 2 weeks of class incl 4 daysin the hosp due to asthma & pneumonia, my father-in-law was dx's & subsequently died of AML to name two. Throughout those issues, I was afforded the time off I needed and the support of the faculty & Admin to prevent my having to extend or otherwise be penalized.

That said, it is not a perfect place nor is it Oz. But, this brings up the most impressive feature for me. My perception is that KCOM actively solicits student input and tries to improve things by taken this input into account. No, they do not run out and change everything dependent upon every student whim...but they do make an effort to incorporate student input with institutional & faculty needs/opinions to direct changes.

Folks flunking out of KCOM? Of course they do -- and if a school claims to have a zero flunk out rate, I would like hell from them...cause they are not stringent enough. I know from personal experience that if you demonstrate the maturity & professionalism to seek assistance in advance and are willing to put in the extra work to offset extenuating circumstances, then KCOM will bend over backwards to accommodate. However, if you do not or if you simply cannot survive the academic rigors of medical school, that you will likely not finish and that is how it should be be. If you are not capable of making it or do not possess the professinalism & maturity of a physican, then it would be an immense disservice to you and, more importantly, your future patients to not flunk you out.

Nationwide, the loss rate is approximately 10%. That is, 1 of every 10 of your classmates will likely not make it to year 2. I've never read anything about the loss rate for the second year, only that it is drastically less than for year 1. I have read though that for the folks who finish year 2, the graduation rate is 98%. So, not only will you loose folks in the first year, it is possible to loose them throughout.

Med school ain't easy!! Getting in, as complex and capricious as it is, is actually far easier than surviving to graduate. Look at it this way -- that "YES letter" is only a hunting license...it allows you in the woods; but whether you kill anything or not is up to you and your level of effort & dedication. No one will spoon feed it to you...this is not high school or college on steroids.

 

[NKMU]

thank you for honest and helpful replies. my experiences thusfar with the school have been quite positive, but i just wanted to hear that the fail-out rate is not extraordinarily high at KCOM.

i agree that students should fail if they don't display the maturity and work ethic necessary to practice effective, compassionate medicine. i think i'm prepared to meet the challenges of medical school, and i get the feeling that KCOM faculty--and fellow students--will be there to support those who struggle.

oldman, your comments were particularly helpful. i like the idea of the acceptance letter as a hunting license-- definitely the first time i've heard that!

 

[dobonedoc]

For you, and anyone else worried about failing out of KCOM . . .

The above comments are right on the money. KCOM is tough, but the reputation and education are great.

As for students who fail, I can confirm that KCOM does EVERYTHING within it's power to help every student accepted to receive a diploma. Some students do fail, but they are the vast minority, and they are those who wait until it is way too late to ask for help.

KCOM has, on full time staff, an education resource professional who's job is to make resources available to any student who may need more help in a particular area. Students who are strong in one area (a student earning >93% in the class) may be asked if he or she would be interested in tutoring other students, while earning work study money. This system benefits both the strong and weak students at the same time. Other resources are also often used.

3-4 full time fellows (students taking a year out of their DO training) are employed by the school in both the anatomy and the OTM departments, two of the most difficult departments in the school. Part of their jobs are to provide personal tutoting for students who feel they may need extra help.

The individual departments are aware of who may be having trouble, and they take a very personal interest in helping them master the topics.

Using the tools at KCOM, struggling students are helped to master the information. If you get in trouble, (say not passing the first test in anatomy, and doing poorly on the lab quizzes) Get help right away! Those who fail are those who feel that they can handle their problems without help.

I believe that all of the "weeding out" occurs in the application process. Once in, KCOM wants every student to pass, and to do well.

On a personal note, my mother passed away in my first year of school, during a very busy time. The dean of student affairs simply told me to take care of my family needs, and to worry about school when everything else was finished. I was free to take off as much time as I needed. He promissed that "I would not fail over this." When I returned to school "we would sort everyting else out." He was true to his word. When I returned I had work to catch up on, but ended up doing well, and remained with my class. I know several others in a similar position.

Good luck, and WORK hard. If you do this, you will graduate in 4 years!