All Branch Topic (ABT) For HPSP Applicants, Don't Pick Air Force or Navy

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USAFHPSP

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Hi Potential HPSP Applicants,

I'm writing this thread to give you some important information in making the decision to apply for the HPSP program. If you've already decided that you are going to apply for HPSP, you may be wondering which branch you should apply to. I'm recommending that you don't pick the Air Force or Navy and consider the Army as the sole option. As an Air Force HPSP graduate myself, I have experienced the worst of it and have some credibility to make this statement.

First of all, the Air Force sends a lot of its HPSP graduates into the civilian world to do residency training. When you do residency training in the civilian world, most of the positions are classified as civilian deferred which basically means you'll get paid by the civilian hospital (you get paid crap) and you don't earn any years towards retirement (horrible for any prior military service). For the few lucky people that get an Air Force residency position, you'll get paid well and earn retirement years but there's a good chance that the residency program isn't very good (San Antonio Military Medical Center residency programs may be an exception). Also, if you're going for a competitive specialty, there's a really good chance that you won't get into the program, will have to do a 1-year internship and then a 2-year tour as a flight surgeon (basically you perform the duties of a family practice doc but without formal residency training), and then can reapply for residency training. If you follow this path, remember you're probably going to increase your commitment to the Air Force (they will own you for many more years).

From what I've seen, it seems the Army treats their HPSP graduates much better. Almost every one of them, if not all of them, are active duty and make a decent salary during residency training. In addition, most of them go straight into residency training programs and don't do the flight surgeon/GMO tours (GMO is similar to the Air Force flight surgeon idea) like the Air Force/Navy does. For this reason, I recommend trying for an Army HPSP position and I wouldn't even consider the Air Force or Navy. Honestly, I can't recommend anybody go into the Air Force or Navy HPSP program for the reasons I've already mentioned. In addition, the Army probably has better residency programs than the Air Force (in my opinion).

So if you do decide to apply for the HPSP program, realize that the branches of the military do differ and this is an extremely important decision to make. You don't want to be miserable during residency. Unfortunately I know too many Air Force HPSP students who are unhappy with their situation - whether it's because they didn't get the residency they wanted, will have to do a flight surgeon tour, aren't getting paid well in the civilian world, aren't earning retirement years in the civilian world (primarily for prior active duty enlisted/officers), have an increased commitment (more years owed to the Air Force), or for many other reasons.

Thanks of listening to my discussion. I've provided you with some things to think about when applying for the HPSP scholarship. My hope is that the Air Force and Navy will eventually wake up and fix the problems that plague military medicine so that morale improves. I wish I could be in position of power to fix these things myself but it looks like my fate has been sealed....I'll serve my time and get out ASAP!

Good luck!

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So you take your experience with one to two aspects of the HPSP residency experience within the Air Force and extrapolate that to the Navy and Army.

If you look at the tendencies of this particular forum my take is that the Navy folks tend to be the happiest, and the Air Force slightly more happy than 3rd place Army. You talk about going straight into training (ie No GMO) but then completely miss the fact the Army loves to send their residency trained (and not uncommonly fellowship trained) folks to do what are essentially GMO-like jobs outside of their specialty.

There are many nuances between the services and that is why there are tons of threads about it. Some would consider the chance of doing civilian training a plus, especially if they are like many HPSP'ers who plan on getting out at first chance.

I think your post has validity in regards to your Air Force experience, but I would be cautious in extrapolating that into a blanket recommendation for a different service.
 
As an Army HPSP graduate, I recommend you ignore that advice and don't do the Army. Here's why: you will end up in a part of the country that God forgot, your command is utterly dominated by non-providers who haven't the foggiest what you do, nor do they care because patient care isn't on their radar, and because every bit of the Army exists for the sole purpose of preventing you from doing your job as a physician.

Seriously, though, what backrow said. Individual experiences are helpful, but do not extend to the other services. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence - especially when the USAF owns the property because those guys have money coming out the whazoo.
 
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If the whole plan is to get out asap...you've completely missed the point of serving. The Army is the service least likely to allow you to go flight medicine, which I believe is the best gig that milmed has to offer.
 
I am an Army GMO doing flight. I get to play around with medevac, others work with drones or apaches and get zero flight activities. When I apply for residency I get looked at like a screw-up since previously few army people did GMOs. It was also during the time when residency slots went unfilled regularly. however, the number of HPSPers has increased and it is rare that spots stay unfilled for anything so more people are doing GMO in the Army now.

I will completely counter the OP. The Airforce and navy are both more enjoyable careers then so far what I have seen for myself and fellow GMOs and friends in other branches.

The Airforce is the prime way that a person could do a civilian residency. Yeah it doesn't count towards retirement, but if you are not staying for a career it doesn't matter at all. Over half of the HPSP people split well before 20 years. Also the Navy and Airforce have the premo GMO spots and better locations. I would so willingly switch with any AF GMO at the soonest opportunity.
 
well crap...now here I am already applied to Army HPSP....Now I'm reconsidering. I heard Chair Force just sucks overall, I hear navy is GMO land, and well army has the most specialties and residency programs which is a plus. Am i missing something here?
 
well crap...now here I am already applied to Army HPSP....Now I'm reconsidering. I heard Chair Force just sucks overall, I hear navy is GMO land, and well army has the most specialties and residency programs which is a plus. Am i missing something here?

You are missing that the Army likes to get their pound of flesh after you finish your residency and the Navy likes to get theirs before. The Air Force has a little before and not as much after.

Every service has its pluses and minuses and one should do extensive research prior to signing.
 
I'm recommending that you don't pick the Air Force or Navy and consider the Army as the sole option. As an Air Force HPSP graduate myself, I have experienced the worst of it and have some credibility to make this statement.

Nice try @USArmyHPSP... nice try...
 
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Have you seen where the middle of the ocean is?
I'm 13 years post med school in the Navy and have spent a grand total of 2 weeks on a ship. (It was fun, but two weeks was enough.) My story is typical in that regard.

Navy guys who want to serve on a ship can usually make it happen, but those positions are often not very clinical, so most of us aren't interested.

These days the most common way a Navy physician finds himself on a ship (without asking for it) is a humanitarian cruise on a hospital ship. The Comfort is out right now.
 
I'm 13 years post med school in the Navy and have spent a grand total of 2 weeks on a ship. (It was fun, but two weeks was enough.) My story is typical in that regard.

Navy guys who want to serve on a ship can usually make it happen, but those positions are often not very clinical, so most of us aren't interested.

These days the most common way a Navy physician finds himself on a ship (without asking for it) is a humanitarian cruise on a hospital ship. The Comfort is out right now.
sooo I take it you love the navy and would recommend HPSP?
 
sooo I take it you love the navy and would recommend HPSP?

If you want to have a real military experience, not have life completely suck, and are willing to put up with the general headaches of milmed...I don't think that there is any question that Navy is the best route. I am bias though.
 
sooo I take it you love the navy and would recommend HPSP?
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not.

I don't know the first thing about you and it would be ridiculous for me to presume to recommend anything at all to you.

On balance, I am more happy than unhappy with my time in the Navy. I think I'd have been less happy in the AF or Army.
 
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I can't tell if you're being facetious or not.

I don't know the first thing about you and it would be ridiculous for me to presume to recommend anything at all to you.

On balance, I am more happy than unhappy with my time in the Navy. I think I'd have been less happy in the AF or Army.
well crap...maybe I should switch now...
 
How can you base your decision on someone's experience? It's not like you're drawing on a wealth of experiences yourself to jump to conclusions.
true. im just confused, im hungry, and idk what to do!!!! ughhh
 
First of all, the Air Force sends a lot of its HPSP graduates into the civilian world to do residency training.

How is that a bad thing? You get to do the specialty you want at the hospital of your choice. The civilian hospitals generally offer better training than the Air Force does anyway.

you'll get paid by the civilian hospital (you get paid crap)

As does every other civilian doctor out there. Residency is a right of passage.

you don't earn any years towards retirement (horrible for any prior military service)

Doesn't matter. The majority of Air Force doctors leave way before retirement. The only useful part of doing an active-duty residency is to get time counted toward the post-9/11 GI Bill, so that you can get the benefits transferred to your dependents.

Also, if you're going for a competitive specialty, there's a really good chance that you won't get into the program, will have to do a 1-year internship and then a 2-year tour as a flight surgeon

This is true. Also, the Air Force has fewer specialties available than the Army, Navy, or civilian world. Want to do physical medicine and rehabilitation? Not going to happen in the Air Force.

If you follow this path, remember you're probably going to increase your commitment to the Air Force (they will own you for many more years).

That's only if you do an Air Force residency after your flight surgery tour. You can just as easily go the civilian route and get out.

From what I've seen, it seems the Army treats their HPSP graduates much better.

You don't read SDN very often do you?

most of them go straight into residency training programs and don't do the flight surgeon/GMO tours

They do something worse called Battalion surgeon tour, where they act as a GMO outside of the scope of their training. Imagine doing residency and then a fellowship in gastroenterology, only to practice as a GMO. What a waste of skills and training.

You don't want to be miserable during residency.

I'm not sure how getting a civilian deferral automatically makes one miserable during residency. All of your co-residents have to go through the same training, pimping, and low salaries together.

Unfortunately I know too many Air Force HPSP students who are unhappy with their situation

True, lots of people do end up unhappy at one point or another with the military.

My hope is that the Air Force and Navy will eventually wake up and fix the problems that plague military medicine so that morale improves.

Not going to happen. Congress has been calling for over a decade to end flight surgery/GMO tours.

I'll serve my time and get out ASAP

Well then I guess trying to get years counted toward retirement didn't matter after all.
 
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