FM in Quebec...is there something i don't know?

[Unch]

I'm considering applying for an FM residency in Quebec and a friend cryptically advised me against it. On the CARMS site, there do seem to be a lot of IMG spots, many of which seem to go unfilled. Leaving aside language issues, is there a reason that Quebec isn't seeming to be more desireable?

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[DocRocker]

quebec requires that you complete MCCEE, MCCQE 1 & 2 before applying to residency and also goes through an equivalency process (www.cmq.org). The other provinces only require MCCEE before applying to residency. I'm from Montreal and I don't think I will even apply in Quebec.

 

[NGiorgi]

quebec requires that you complete MCCEE, MCCQE 1 & 2 before applying to residency and also goes through an equivalency process (www.cmq.org). The other provinces only require MCCEE before applying to residency. I'm from Montreal and I don't think I will even apply in Quebec.

Actually, you're also forgetting the ECOS exam, so you actually need EE, Q1, Q2 and ECOS; atleast according to the college de medecin du quebec when i called them up. The ECOS is ONLY given ONCE a year, in august by the way; so that pretty much burns you one year of matching since it's way to late for the march date.
so yeah... on the one side you can already start to do some paper work and matching with 1 exam (MCCEE) on the other side you need 4 exams to start the paper work and matching...
Yup, i'm from Montreal and I'm not even looking to do anything here
(and the irony is, it is estimated quebec needs around 800 FMs extra to provide good care...)
Take the advise of your friend (unless you've got some time to burn)

 

[DocRocker]

If you pass the MCCQE 2, you do not have to take the OSCE... But even so, Quebec is not making it easy. Good luck.


"You must successfully pass one of the two following examinations:
- the Medical Clinical Sciences Examination of the Collège des médecins du Québec (OSCE: This is an objective structured clinical examination)
or
- the Medical Council of Canada Qualifying Examination (MCCQE) part II"

 

[NGiorgi]

If you pass the MCCQE 2, you do not have to take the OSCE... But even so, Quebec is not making it easy. Good luck.


"You must successfully pass one of the two following examinations:
- the Medical Clinical Sciences Examination of the Collège des médecins du Québec (OSCE: This is an objective structured clinical examination)
or
- the Medical Council of Canada Qualifying Examination (MCCQE) part II"

Oh, ok, my bad, sorry about that. That was what I was told when I called the college, maybe the person answering my questions was full of ... (well, you know); but yes, we can agree quebec does not make it easy.

 

[CanGas]

What school are you looking at for FM?

I am assuming since you are writing in English you mean McGill.

Let's just say that the different schools have different attitudes toward FM. Take a look at how many McGill grads went into FM last year compared to the country average (something like 17% vs 28%). That gives you an idea of the faculties importance they place on FM. You will always be the "FM" resident on all specialty services. Also look at how many McGill grads passed their Quebec licensing exam in 2008. It's not saying that they are bad doctors but if 50% of the class fails it means the program is doing a piss poor job of preparing them.

Look elsewhere or on the French side.

P.S. If you want to work in a major center (Montreal, Quebec City) as a FM you better graduate from a Quebec residency if you want a chance at a PREM (Yes, Quebec restricts how many and where you can practice). Without a PEM you can still work in Montreal but you will only be paid 70% of billings for something like 5 years for the privilege.

CanGas

 

[NGiorgi]

P.S. If you want to work in a major center (Montreal, Quebec City) as a FM you better graduate from a Quebec residency if you want a chance at a PREM (Yes, Quebec restricts how many and where you can practice). Without a PEM you can still work in Montreal but you will only be paid 70% of billings for something like 5 years for the privilege.

CanGas

what is the PREM ? (sorry, i have no idea, i supose it is the permit for medical practice, right ?)
so if i get this straight, if for exemple I get accepted to a FM program in manitoba pass the board exam and wish to go back to montreal to practice; even being a canadian residency graduate there's a chance I won't be able to practice there ?
every day i believe less and less that quebec has a doctor "defficit". Oddly enough, this growing disbelief is inversly proportional to my dissapointment.

 

[Giemsa]

every day i believe less and less that quebec has a doctor "defficit".

Quebec does; Montreal doesn't.

It's like saying that because British Columbia needs doctors you can't imagine why they won't hire you in Vancouver. Everybody wants to work in the big city; they need people in the sticks. That's basically what PREM is - trying to even out the distribution of physicians between the desirable (Montreal, Quebec city) and less desirable areas.

To answer the original question, in general, physicians (particularly specialists) earn less in Quebec than they do elsewhere. I understand that this is offset, partially, by lower housing costs, etc.

PS - If you can survive residency training in the gang-ridden, mosquito swarmed hell hole that is Winterpeg, ANY PLACE in Quebec will be like paradise. You won't need to live in Montreal. Focus on getting the residency (it's hard for IMGs to land a spot in Canada, particularly in provinces like Manitoba that don't have any IMG spots) and worry about the rest afterwards.

 

[pattycanuck]

PS - If you can survive residency training in the gang-ridden, mosquito swarmed hell hole that is Winterpeg,

It's attitudes like this that I hope the CPSM and UofM Dept of FM finally get it through their heads to make their residency programs have associated ROS as mandatory and deter the abuse of the Manitoban tax payer of these "dine and dash" individuals - they the tax payer puts you through your residency and then they get shat on.

I don't say that specifically about the OP, but many people here are there right now or are considering it just for that. I know a few people who have done that and told it to me personally. Poor attitude, but I guess people have to survive.

To those of you there at the UofM (some of you and you know who you are), be grateful that you actually have a spot as there are all of those other provinces that most likely didn't want you.

 

[NGiorgi]

It's attitudes like this that I hope the CPSM and UofM Dept of FM finally get it through their heads to make their residency programs have associated ROS as mandatory and deter the abuse of the Manitoban tax payer of these "dine and dash" individuals - they the tax payer puts you through your residency and then they get shat on.

I don't say that specifically about the OP, but many people here are there right now or are considering it just for that. I know a few people who have done that and told it to me personally. Poor attitude, but I guess people have to survive.

To those of you there at the UofM (some of you and you know who you are), be grateful that you actually have a spot as there are all of those other provinces that most likely didn't want you.

I supose the whole dine and dash attitude is "kinda irritating", but medicine in Canada is built that way. For example, in the CARMS match, only two spots were available for orthopedic surgery, you have NO OTHER OPTION than to dine and dash if you do not wish to be in either of those two provinces. You just can't go around it. You don't like the "dine and dash", open up more options and opportunity for residencies.

I also suppose universities take into concideration where you live when chosing you for a match giving an "unfair" advantage to the locals, so the "dine and dash" is probably not that big a percentage.

Personally I don't mind the ROS, hell, I even think it's correct. But once you've paid your dues... well... you have paid your dues.

Now, back to Quebec vs Montreal needing doctors. According to the people I have talked to on the island (Montreal), the majority of them (friends of mine, acquaintances or friends of the family) do not have a family doctor, and it is hell for them to find one (can't imagine what it is like outside the city ). My father (who's actually practicing here) was offered/asked to posponed his retirement because they had noone to replace him with.

But yes, bottom line, it seems to be quite hard for an IMG to get a spot here (anywhere in Canada actually), getting into a residency is my prime objective... the rest will be seem in due time.

p.s. anyone else feel frustrated at how hard it is here for an IMG ?

 

[NGiorgi]

In responce to the original poster; I am wandering, are you an IMG ?
If so, check out this website, might help you understand what your friend meant when he advised against going to quebec.

http://www.medecinsdailleurs.com/

 

[Acherona]

I'm considering applying for an FM residency in Quebec and a friend cryptically advised me against it. On the CARMS site, there do seem to be a lot of IMG spots, many of which seem to go unfilled. Leaving aside language issues, is there a reason that Quebec isn't seeming to be more desireable?

I think it's a combination of the lower salaries, prems, and french issue. The french schools basically have no desirability for anyone outside quebec -- why would an anglophone from another province want to move somewhere they will not only make less money, have to deal with the annoyances of working in the quebec system, but also have language/culture issues as well? Especially if it's in the middle of nowhere rural quebec? U de Montreal probably fares the best because it's in the city and has a strong program. McGill as someone else pointed out suffers from a lack of emphasis on primary care but still manages to get great residents from the graduating class who want to stay close to home.

Even if it is not as bad as rural areas, people are still unable to find family docs on the island.

Also, why did your friend "cryptically" advise against it? Can't you just ask him?

 

[Unch]

Thanks. Yes, I am an IMG. I guess my friend wasn't actually that cryptic but he didn't give details. There's always a reason lurking somewhere. I guess I'll proceed on a province-by-province basis and forego Quebec.