Finding Strength

[MayJuneJulie]

Hi guys,

Once again posting here because no one in my life can relate to what I'm going through. I didn't get into a Clinical Psyc PhD program this year. I am about to graduate from undergrad this May, and I have been working hard for the last 4 years towards acquiring research experience, clinical experience, obtaining high scores on the GRE, and keeping a high GPA. All while working a part time job 25+ hours a week every week of the semester. I thought I was doing everything right and yet I still didn't accomplish my goal of going straight into a PhD after undergrad. I know this is typical; clinical psyc PhD programs are the most competitive doctoral programs and I know so many qualified applicants don't get in. I was so ecstatic when I got one interview, and the interview day went really well and I thought that I was a great fit for the program and I thought my POI felt the same. And then I find out that I'm not even the first or second alternate.

I've applied to a couple of Master's programs but now I'm not even sure about being offered a spot in either of those. I still intend on obtaining my doctorate but I am so scared that I am once again gonna waste $600+ and too many hours on the application process just to find out that I once again did not make the cut. I know I'm just whining and that countless other individuals have went through this, but for those of you who didn't make it in the first time and later secured a spot, please tell me about your experience. I really would like to know how other people cope with this disappointment and still strive to achieve their dreams.

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[glowstick]

As you say, many people don't get in to Ph.D. programs the first time around. Many advisors – especially in Ph.D. programs – don't seriously consider students who don't have at least one year of post-undergraduate research experience. A master's isn't a terrible idea – but if you have a strong undergrad GPA and good GRE scores, the thing you should be doing now is finding a (paid!) research assistant position and focusing on that for at least a year before applying again. It delays the process, but the fact of the matter is that it helps you get into a program when you have solid evidence of research skills.

 

[neurobain]

As you say, many people don't get in to Ph.D. programs the first time around. Many advisors – especially in Ph.D. programs – don't seriously consider students who don't have at least one year of post-undergraduate research experience. A master's isn't a terrible idea – but if you have a strong undergrad GPA and good GRE scores, the thing you should be doing now is finding a (paid!) research assistant position and focusing on that for at least a year before applying again. It delays the process, but the fact of the matter is that it helps you get into a program when you have solid evidence of research skills.

I second this. I did a year in a neurophysiology lab before applying. This helped and I got into a very solid program with the training opportunities I desired. Although in retrospect 2-3 years in the lab probably would have been more helpful in securing a spot in a program with better funding. From my time in the lab, all of the papers I was on as a co-author, including a first author paper, started getting published a year or two into my PhD program. This was helpful for internship and postdoc, but could have been extremely helpful for grad school applications.

If it is a clinical degree you are after, I would also recommend trying to observe clinical work, volunteering in a hospital on a psychiatry unit, or paid work as a psychometrician for a neuropsychologist. This, in conjunction with the research, will significantly strengthen your application.

 

[PsychPhDone]

Thirded. Go get a full time job as a research assistant and enjoy a couple years off from school.

I didn't get on my first try either. So so so many people shared the same experience with me after my first round. Let yourself sulk a little and then carry on!

 

[SmallTownPSY]

Yes definitely find a research assistant position and start applying now.


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[neurobain]

Yes definitely find a research assistant position and start applying now.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Also, your college professors may be looking, or they may have colleagues that are looking as well. Use your connections to your advantage!

 

[MayJuneJulie]

Thanks for all the advice guys. The M.A. program I really wanna get into apparently has great financial aid options, and if I actually am accepted and find that I only have to take out a few thousand in loans, that's the route I'm going. Of course, if I don't get in or find that it's super expensive, I will be looking into finding a research assistant position. I don't think I'm going to find those opportunities at my current university, where I'm like 90% sure that such positions are only offered to current students, but I will talk to my adviser about it. I'm still feeling super bummed out but I know I just need to be persistent.

 

[deleted343839]

Thanks for all the advice guys. The M.A. program I really wanna get into apparently has great financial aid options, and if I actually am accepted and find that I only have to take out a few thousand in loans, that's the route I'm going. Of course, if I don't get in or find that it's super expensive, I will be looking into finding a research assistant position. I don't think I'm going to find those opportunities at my current university, where I'm like 90% sure that such positions are only offered to current students, but I will talk to my adviser about it. I'm still feeling super bummed out but I know I just need to be persistent.

If your GRE and GPA are strong then I'd highly recommend seeking out a research assistant job. If you'd be willing to relocate for a master's then you might consider looking more broadly for jobs too.

 

[PeterAnthony9254]

Perhaps you could volunteer in a research lab or clinical setting and then progress forward from there. I know many people who did that and obtained paid research/clinical positions which helped when applying to doctoral programs.

 

[EmotRegulation]

A research assistant job will look better to potential faculty members than a masters degree in most cases. I recommend masters degrees to people who do not have sufficient undergrad research experience to be able to get an RA job or who have a poor GPA they need to "make up for." But these don't sound like your situations--so get an RA job. You'll make money, get work experiences, and get good research experience...this is generally better than a masters program. Check out this site: http://clinicalpsychgradschool.org/pbacc.php and HR websites of hospitals (they often post research positions there for PIs working on grant money in academic medical center settings.

 

[RejectClinical]

Hi guys,

Once again posting here because no one in my life can relate to what I'm going through. I didn't get into a Clinical Psyc PhD program this year. I am about to graduate from undergrad this May, and I have been working hard for the last 4 years towards acquiring research experience, clinical experience, obtaining high scores on the GRE, and keeping a high GPA. All while working a part time job 25+ hours a week every week of the semester. I thought I was doing everything right and yet I still didn't accomplish my goal of going straight into a PhD after undergrad. I know this is typical; clinical psyc PhD programs are the most competitive doctoral programs and I know so many qualified applicants don't get in. I was so ecstatic when I got one interview, and the interview day went really well and I thought that I was a great fit for the program and I thought my POI felt the same. And then I find out that I'm not even the first or second alternate.

I've applied to a couple of Master's programs but now I'm not even sure about being offered a spot in either of those. I still intend on obtaining my doctorate but I am so scared that I am once again gonna waste $600+ and too many hours on the application process just to find out that I once again did not make the cut. I know I'm just whining and that countless other individuals have went through this, but for those of you who didn't make it in the first time and later secured a spot, please tell me about your experience. I really would like to know how other people cope with this disappointment and still strive to achieve their dreams.

Honestly, if you're looking to get into a competitive clinical program, doing a research assistant position is the best way to make you way more competitive. I know some faculty members won't look at applications of people without research experience post undergrad. I also know some really competitive faculty members that won't accept a student without a publication. You're more likely to get both of those things as an RA (and $ too) than you would in a master's program. I wouldn't considering doing a master's program unless you had a low undergrad GPA (and you don't). Plus, the master's program will probably wear you out more (and you'll most likely end up retaking the same classes you did in your master's program once you get into a PhD program). I found my time off in between undergrad and grad school to be really refreshing. It can be really frustrating to get rejected, but I'm so glad I did as I never would have met my husband and the program I was waitlisted on the first time didn't have nearly the reputation, resources, and connections as the program I was accepted into eventually. I know it can sting (it did for me), but keep up hope. I'm betting you'll have better luck the next go-around. The only other recommendation I have would be maybe with regards to your personal statements. It sounds like everything else in your application is pretty competitive. I had a recent PhD grad from a highly competitive program look over my personal statement the second time around. That, combined with the research experience, helped me get interview offers at every single school I applied to (minus 1).

 

[PeterAnthony9254]

A research assistant job will look better to potential faculty members than a masters degree in most cases. I recommend masters degrees to people who do not have sufficient undergrad research experience to be able to get an RA job or who have a poor GPA they need to "make up for." But these don't sound like your situations--so get an RA job. You'll make money, get work experiences, and get good research experience...this is generally better than a masters program. Check out this site: http://clinicalpsychgradschool.org/pbacc.php and HR websites of hospitals (they often post research positions there for PIs working on grant money in academic medical center settings.

Well, obtaining a master's degree can certainly help. There are many master's programs in Clinical Psychology that are designed to enhance preparation for doctoral level training. Some programs will offer valuable research and clinical experience to help boost a student's credentials. I know many who had very good undergrad GPAs and research experience but opted to pursue a master's first before determining if doctoral studies was right for them. However, an MA by itself is not sufficient for employment in the area of Psychology and some might be worried that a terminal degree won't be worth the investment especially if it does not result in admission into a doctoral program

 

[psyched2graduate]

I strongly agree with what the above posters have written about pursuing a FT RA position versus earning your master's. Your situation sounds a lot like my own. I was an RA since my freshmen year of college and believed getting in straight out of undergrad was the best option for beginning this seemingly never-ending process. When I was waitlisted at a couple of clinical programs, I applied to funded master's programs with reputations of producing PhD students, because it felt like the best way to move forward. In the end, I got off the waitlist and attended a fully funded, middle-of-the-road PhD program in an undesirable area. There are pros and cons, of course, but attending a top program will make every step of the process a little bit easier for you. I say a little bit easier, because how hard you're willing to work is probably the greatest predictor of success at most programs. Nevertheless, a top program will have better training, more resources, a good reputation with top internships, etc, and being a FT RA will put you in a better position than a master's would to attend such programs.

Regarding coping with discouragement, I think you would become excited about RA positions if you began interviewing for them. Particularly positions that are invested in both your development as a researcher and getting you into graduate school. There are some amazing opportunities out there! Plus, I'm sure you would be a very competitive candidate, which can always feel nice after a disappointing application cycle. Best of luck, and keep us posted on your decision!

 

[EmotRegulation]

Well, obtaining a master's degree can certainly help. There are many master's programs in Clinical Psychology that are designed to enhance preparation for doctoral level training. Some programs will offer valuable research and clinical experience to help boost a student's credentials. I know many who had very good undergrad GPAs and research experience but opted to pursue a master's first before determining if doctoral studies was right for them. However, an MA by itself is not sufficient for employment in the area of Psychology and some might be worried that a terminal degree won't be worth the investment especially if it does not result in admission into a doctoral program

My point here is simply from a faculty member's viewpoint. I can speak from my own and those of my colleagues. Can a masters help a student get some research experience and an idea of graduate level work? Yes, definitely! But it's not looked at more favorably than an RA job by most faculty I know.

One other thing. Sometimes families serve a pressuring role in this area, because they want their son or daughter to continue their education, and are worried what it will "look" like if they take time off. I should consider writing something for APS about this, because I hear this a lot from undergrads I mentor. The thing is...it's NOT viewed as a negative from the faculty reviewing applications. Someone with job experience, who has had to show up to work and gets paid for actual responsibilities, can be a huge advantage over someone who's primary role has always been school (note: I'm aware plenty of people work--sometimes even full time--and do school on top of that, which definitely shows something useful about balancing responsibilities). I wish there was something I could point to to say "Print this and show this to your parents to appease their worries" but I don't have that. Not saying this is a factor with this OP, but it is a factor sometimes.

 

[JacktheWolf]

I have grad students and faculty alike tell me that the PhD in clinical psychology is probably one of the only degree programs where you can do everything you're supposed to do and still not get in. Applying to clinical psych is an awful and soul crushing process, I would know because I did it twice and now going to my top choice program. I agree with all the posters here that doing some post bacc work will not only strengthen your CV but your personal growth as well, and maturity and grit are things that adcoms look for that you can only get with time. Best of luck.

 

[Marissa4usa]

I've been on this board for a decade, and I am currently in my 4th year as a PhD student. It took me 3.5 rounds of applying to get into a program. I am saying 3.5 because I got into a fully funded, otherwise-solid program during my third round of applications, but it was the program that all along had been on the bottom of my list and when I interviewed there were so many things I disliked about it, I just could not get myself to accept the offer. It was an incredibly hard decision. Although people generally understood why I did not like the program (bad research fit, I did not like the atmosphere of the program, fully funded but stipend was underwhelming for the cost of living), they still thought I was crazy given that this was my third round of applications. On top of that, I was/am an international student and had maxed out ways of extending my visa.

Part of the issues I had was probably due to being an international student - there is always more work involved in accepting international students, particularly, as it pertains to residency status for tuition for state schools (which I honestly still don't quite get, since everybody gets a waiver, but who knows).

However, more importantly, I had a fairly low GRE score the first two times I applied. In fact, I had to take it 5 times (!) to get my combined score to be above the threshold. Literally, the moment I saw my (above 1200) score on the screen is probably in the top 5 moments of my life The problem was always due to the verbal section, even though I think, breathe, and dream in English.

When I applied for the third and fourth time, I had a masters, my thesis had been a fairly elaborate project in terms of data collection, I had one 1st-author publication, a couple of pubs in the works, had worked as a research coordinator for an NIH-funded study, I had been networking with the people I was interested (went to their talks, asked questions during their presentations, approached them afterwards, etc.). So, as you can imagine, I was quite disappointed when even the third time around things did not pan out the way I had hoped. My mentor at my RA position, at which I worked after my MA program, is very known in my field - he contacted several of his colleagues to see what their impression was of me, and to the best of my knowledge they had nothing bad to say about me.

I literally begged people to tell me if there is anything that I could do to improve. I asked my mentors if I come off "weird" interpersonally because I was worried that I look good on paper, but then screw things up at the interview....literally nada . Without wanting to sound dramatic, everybody, including me, was at a loss. Although that was frustrating, it also caused me to keep going, and to keep applying ... the rest if history. I absolutely love my program at which I'm now. I am doing exactly what I've been wanting to do, and although I do wish it had worked out a bit sooner, and that I wouldn't have had to spend almost 10K on thesef 4 rounds of application, I have zero regrets. Plus, getting rejected over 50 times has really increased my tolerance for academic rejection (pubs, grants, etc.), so if nothing else it has set me to deal with the reality of academia before I even started grad school.

My point is consistent with what JackTheWolf is saying: You can do everything right, and still not get in. And if there is nothing outright that you are "doing wrong", then I recommend to really just keep going, and to keep making yourself more competitive. I should add that I actually didn't apply for grad school for the first time until I was 26 years old, and I'll be 36 when I graduate...and I still would do it all again.

 

[Sharewithme]

Hi guys,

Once again posting here because no one in my life can relate to what I'm going through. I didn't get into a Clinical Psyc PhD program this year. I am about to graduate from undergrad this May, and I have been working hard for the last 4 years towards acquiring research experience, clinical experience, obtaining high scores on the GRE, and keeping a high GPA. All while working a part time job 25+ hours a week every week of the semester. I thought I was doing everything right and yet I still didn't accomplish my goal of going straight into a PhD after undergrad. I know this is typical; clinical psyc PhD programs are the most competitive doctoral programs and I know so many qualified applicants don't get in. I was so ecstatic when I got one interview, and the interview day went really well and I thought that I was a great fit for the program and I thought my POI felt the same. And then I find out that I'm not even the first or second alternate.

I've applied to a couple of Master's programs but now I'm not even sure about being offered a spot in either of those. I still intend on obtaining my doctorate but I am so scared that I am once again gonna waste $600+ and too many hours on the application process just to find out that I once again did not make the cut. I know I'm just whining and that countless other individuals have went through this, but for those of you who didn't make it in the first time and later secured a spot, please tell me about your experience. I really would like to know how other people cope with this disappointment and still strive to achieve their dreams.

Hi, I messaged you. I can relate to not being admitted straight out of undergraduate...and now. I'm organizing a support group for graduate school applicants, and my research interests are in grief/loss. Rejection does sting, and all your hard work only to be slammed in the face with rejection is nothing to be minimized or made light of. The support group also offers tips on how to apply for the next round of graduate admissions, too, because support with this is important. If you, or anyone reading this, is interested in the group, please let me know.

Kind Regards,
Sharewithme

 

[LM02]

My point here is simply from a faculty member's viewpoint. I can speak from my own and those of my colleagues. Can a masters help a student get some research experience and an idea of graduate level work? Yes, definitely! But it's not looked at more favorably than an RA job by most faculty I know.

One other thing. Sometimes families serve a pressuring role in this area, because they want their son or daughter to continue their education, and are worried what it will "look" like if they take time off. I should consider writing something for APS about this, because I hear this a lot from undergrads I mentor. The thing is...it's NOT viewed as a negative from the faculty reviewing applications. Someone with job experience, who has had to show up to work and gets paid for actual responsibilities, can be a huge advantage over someone who's primary role has always been school (note: I'm aware plenty of people work--sometimes even full time--and do school on top of that, which definitely shows something useful about balancing responsibilities). I wish there was something I could point to to say "Print this and show this to your parents to appease their worries" but I don't have that. Not saying this is a factor with this OP, but it is a factor sometimes.

I am also a faculty member (Associate Professor level), and I just have to say "amen" to this reply! I have said the exact same thing to the undergrads at my institution (which is a highly selective, highly competitive undergraduate institution with highly ambitious students and - to a certain degree - overinvolved parents)*. Students are often looking around to their peers, who are headed off to law school or medical school, and view this "time off" as somehow problematic. Yet clinical psychology, as is true for most PhD-level graduate study, is an entirely different beast. FT work within the field prior to continuing your education is highly valuable, and you will likely find that it not only makes you "more competitive" but that it also has a meaningful impact on your own professional development. I completed a 2-year RA position after undergrad, and was still one of the youngest students in my graduate program until probably my 4th year there. And to date, the two years I spent in that position have had a strong impact on my own research program and ideas, as well as on my professional network. For example, two of my RA "friends" are also now Associate Professors in the field and close professional peers, and my mentor from this RA position and I will soon be sitting on a professional development panel together at an upcoming conference - literally 20 years later! Don't give up!!

*I write that characterization as having been an undergrad myself at a similar institution, many moons ago, with similarly impressive classmates and similarly overinvolved parents. ;-)