Femoral arterial line placement during codes

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I'm struggling with these particularly when the body habitus precludes actually palpating the pulse. Things that I do that (I think) help.
  • Using US to find a static target and then just going for it at a steep angle.
  • Using the angiocath needle and sliding the catheter over as soon as I get flash.
With that said, with all the bobbing up and down and collapsed vasculature it's very hit-or-miss. Any pro tips?

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I'm struggling with these particularly when the body habitus precludes actually palpating the pulse. Things that I do that (I think) help.
  • Using US to find a static target and then just going for it at a steep angle.
  • Using the angiocath needle and sliding the catheter over as soon as I get flash.
With that said, with all the bobbing up and down and collapsed vasculature it's very hit-or-miss. Any pro tips?
I haven't placed an a-line during a code since residency. I'm sure there is a select population where this is useful, but for the vast majority of codes I don't see the point. You can use US to check for cardiac activity and for a pulse if they're too big to feel one. If they actually get ROSC and you want to pop in an a-line then, go for it.
 
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End tidal CO2 ftw. Unless you’re in an academic place with a fleet of EM docs there are too many other things worth focusing on during a code than putting in an a-line.
 
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Placing code lines is a good way for you, or one of your staff, to get stuck with a needle.
 
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I only use them when I have a patient who I think will live - like keeps getting rosc and is young.
 
Not sure about all the hate for intrarrest arterial lines. I put a-lines in early during codes routinely, especially if I have a strong suspicion that I'm going to run this code for awhile.

Digital pulse checks are total garbage. I have seen multiple cases of pseudo-PEA (AKA cardiogenic shock) with organized cardiac contractility without a palpable pulse. Arterial lines help me to be more confident in making this diagnosis, and instead of blindly giving code dose epi and continuing CPR may prompt you to obtain central access and pressors for profound shock.

Should this be the focus over high quality CPR and minimizing interruptions? Absolutely not, but I do think there is a role.

End tidal CO2 during a code is also absolute money.
 
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I agree in principle that etCO2 is a better monitor for ROSC, and that there are better things to do when actually running the code. There's also probably a place for actually placing the line reliably in certain settings, which is why I'm still looking for help with technique.
 
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I agree in principle that etCO2 is a better monitor for ROSC, and that there are better things to do when actually running the code. There's also probably a place for actually placing the line reliably in certain settings, which is why I'm still looking for help with technique.
I mean what do you want? It’s a procedure just like all the others. You open the kit and you put it in. Ultrasound can help as you said. Femoral is probably easier because you’re away from the chest so less movement, the vessel is bigger and if you hit venous you can switch over to a cordis or triple lumen.
 
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I agree in principle that etCO2 is a better monitor for ROSC, and that there are better things to do when actually running the code. There's also probably a place for actually placing the line reliably in certain settings, which is why I'm still looking for help with technique.

I also like to place these intra-arrest if I think we're going to be working it for a little while or we have had ROSC at some point.

I usually do these by landmark, US-guided on a vessel that's bobbing up and down with compressions/LUCAS is nauseating.

You're probably trying the thread the wire with too-steep of an angle. Try flattening it out after you get blood return.
 
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Not sure about all the hate for intrarrest arterial lines. I put a-lines in early during codes routinely, especially if I have a strong suspicion that I'm going to run this code for awhile.

Digital pulse checks are total garbage. I have seen multiple cases of pseudo-PEA (AKA cardiogenic shock) with organized cardiac contractility without a palpable pulse. Arterial lines help me to be more confident in making this diagnosis, and instead of blindly giving code dose epi and continuing CPR may prompt you to obtain central access and pressors for profound shock.

Should this be the focus over high quality CPR and minimizing interruptions? Absolutely not, but I do think there is a role.

End tidal CO2 during a code is also absolute money.

EtCO is money if it works...but I would say 1/3 of the ET tubes I encounter during a code have pulm edema or vomitus or other crap in it making it obsolete.
 
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Find the vessels in the inguinal crease with ultrasound and go more distal/pedal. Get away from the pannus. Go below the bifurcation.

This is not where you would choose to place a fem art line under typical conditions, but it is safe short term and much easier during compressions (often not moving at all).

That said, if you go for it near the inguinal crease, I do like the idea of placing a line in any vessel with reliable return (as mentioned by @Tenk above). The needles for fem arterial line that I have come across will all accommodate a wire and then dilator for an aline or venous triple.

HH
 
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Don’t you run the risk of putting a central venous line into the artery though?

At this point the person is dead, so it probably doesn’t matter. But placing a CVL in an artery ain’t ideal.
 
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Don’t you run the risk of putting a central venous line into the artery though?

At this point the person is dead, so it probably doesn’t matter. But placing a CVL in an artery ain’t ideal.

Absolutely. Even with US, during a code a large portion of arterial/venous lines are actually the other one.
 
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What do you think the patient centered outcomes difference is? I'd say minimal at best.
 
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Sure there are difficult patients but with practice you should be able to tell artery vs vein most of the time.

Artery = thicker, rounder, smaller, and next to the nerve.
 
I'm struggling with these particularly when the body habitus precludes actually palpating the pulse. Things that I do that (I think) help.
  • Using US to find a static target and then just going for it at a steep angle.
  • Using the angiocath needle and sliding the catheter over as soon as I get flash.
With that said, with all the bobbing up and down and collapsed vasculature it's very hit-or-miss. Any pro tips?

Placing an a-line during a code is an utter and complete waste of time (except for that one case out of 1000). Spend your time doing more useful activities that have a better chance at improving outcome. The only time I've found it useful is the pt that's completely clamped down peripherally where I'm getting decent squeeze on cardiac US, organized rhythm but can't for the life of me feel a pulse or detect a BP when I know there has to be a workable blood pressure. That really doesn't happen very often.
 
I am beginning to feel like many PEA arrests I see are in fact cardiogenic shock and severe hypotension. I like using the linear US probe over the femoral artery and if you see if bouncing you have a pulse. EtCO2 can help to correlate your suspicion. If you have a pulse on US but can't feel one you either have bad technique, pt with difficult body habitus or severe hypotension. Add in some NorEpi and move on. I have even stepped away from crash fem Cordis access in trauma as I really wonder if getting a unit of blood in 60 seconds sooner is really all that important, and the RIC lines are just as fast and can be converted from a nursing PIV 5 min down the line in a code.
 
I'm also confused by utility of art line in a code. If they are elderly, have been down for more than 20 minutes (usually the case with EMS patients) and no cardiac activity on ultrasound, then time to finish it up, and move on to treat the living.
 
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All I can say is in the past year, out of the 10-15 medical cardiac arrests that I have taken seriously....the handful of times I ended up putting in an arterial line because they have a PEA / HR 42, some cardiac contractility on US, and I can't feel a pulse.......the a-line has a BP of like 60/20 and I end up spending about 1 hour in the room putting in all sorts of lines, this and that....

....and the patient never lived for more than 24 hours. These patient inevitably have ROSC or piss-poor perfusion for like 1 hour.

I felt like I wasted my time.
 
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It's the simple things in codes that can make the biggest difference, not a-lines. Like replacing that combitube that EMS is using to "bag" the pt on arrival where there's minimal chest rise and every time they bag, bits of vomit and food particles fly out of their mouth and nose with an obviously poor seal. "Ok, looks like the combitube is working, let's keep bagging, gimme another epi and keep those chest compressions going and we'll work this for a few minutes!". = "Probably dead" just became "guaranteed dead".
 
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I've never understood FOAMed's obsession with intra-code A-line placement, Weingart being the most prominent proponent. He essentially recommends it on every single code. They are all about EBM, focusing on things with survival benefit, epi and amio don't work for coding pts, don't intubate a coding pt, etc. But despite the lack of literature to demonstrate patient oriented benefit of a-line placement in codes, most newer or academic ICU docs actually decreasing their use of a-lines, the extremely limited clinical utility that an A-line provides in an individual who is dead or peri-death, and adding additional procedures to a situation where we should be focusing on high quality CPR, they continue to recommend it. It makes little sense.
 
I've never understood FOAMed's obsession with intra-code A-line placement, Weingart being the most prominent proponent. He essentially recommends it on every single code. They are all about EBM, focusing on things with survival benefit, epi and amio don't work for coding pts, don't intubate a coding pt, etc. But despite the lack of literature to demonstrate patient oriented benefit of a-line placement in codes, most newer or academic ICU docs actually decreasing their use of a-lines, the extremely limited clinical utility that an A-line provides in an individual who is dead or peri-death, and adding additional procedures to a situation where we should be focusing on high quality CPR, they continue to recommend it. It makes little sense.
Gotta make podcasts about something
 
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I've never understood FOAMed's obsession with intra-code A-line placement, Weingart being the most prominent proponent. He essentially recommends it on every single code. They are all about EBM, focusing on things with survival benefit, epi and amio don't work for coding pts, don't intubate a coding pt, etc. But despite the lack of literature to demonstrate patient oriented benefit of a-line placement in codes, most newer or academic ICU docs actually decreasing their use of a-lines, the extremely limited clinical utility that an A-line provides in an individual who is dead or peri-death, and adding additional procedures to a situation where we should be focusing on high quality CPR, they continue to recommend it. It makes little sense.

Why don't we just start an epi drip and run it wide open during codes? Instead of pushing 1mg at a time.

If they can prove an a-line increases chance of survival WITH being independent of ADLs, or having an mRS < 2, then I'll start doing it (provided the nurses know how to set one up.)

Otherwise, just start the pressors without the a-line. That's what you're gonna do anyway.

Cohort 1: PEA arrest -> no a-line -> early start of vasopressors
Cohort 2: PEA arrest -> place a-line -> start vasopressors if MAP < 65 or still in PEA
 
I'm struggling with these particularly when the body habitus precludes actually palpating the pulse. Things that I do that (I think) help.
  • Using US to find a static target and then just going for it at a steep angle.
  • Using the angiocath needle and sliding the catheter over as soon as I get flash.
With that said, with all the bobbing up and down and collapsed vasculature it's very hit-or-miss. Any pro tips?


Why not place an IO?



Wook
 
7 years out.
Have never placed an A-line in a code.
Even in residency.
I'm not even sure what the "A" stands for.
Aggravating?
 
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the couple of times I've done it had extreme difficulty holding the needle still to pass the wire cos of all the movement. And when it eventually went in not sure it added anything.
 
0 for 6 on tips so far!

I agree in principle that etCO2 is a better monitor for ROSC, and that there are better things to do when actually running the code. There's also probably a place for actually placing the line reliably in certain settings, which is why I'm still looking for help with technique.
We do a lot of femoral lines, dirty doubles usually, during codes at my residency. Things that I have found helpful: I use ultrasound whenever possible to identify the vessel location, and will try to set it up directly across the gurney from me (i.e. going in the right groin, the US will be on the patient's left). I take a slightly more shallow angle than normal, which seems to help minimize the effect of the compressions on my needle tip pulling out/back walling. Really anchoring my probe hand can help to minimize effect of CPR on movement of the groin.

I've never understood FOAMed's obsession with intra-code A-line placement, Weingart being the most prominent proponent. He essentially recommends it on every single code. They are all about EBM, focusing on things with survival benefit, epi and amio don't work for coding pts, don't intubate a coding pt, etc. But despite the lack of literature to demonstrate patient oriented benefit of a-line placement in codes, most newer or academic ICU docs actually decreasing their use of a-lines, the extremely limited clinical utility that an A-line provides in an individual who is dead or peri-death, and adding additional procedures to a situation where we should be focusing on high quality CPR, they continue to recommend it. It makes little sense.
The intra-arrest arterial line seems like a stepping stone for many of the FOAMed talking heads. ACLS management has been pretty stagnant for decades without improvement in outcomes. Arterial blood pressure measurement may help differentiate the cardiac arrest patient into different phenotypes, especially by identifying profound shock with an organized rhythm, aka pseudo PEA. Plus, arterial cannulation is required for ECMO initiation. Intra-arrest placement gets you reps for cannulation during compressions, which is a key skill. Many of the folks advocating femoral line placement are in centers that have ECLS capabilities.
I agree that placing a line on every arrest patient is probably not useful in the vast majority of shops. It may be useful for pushing arrest management forward in places with extra hands and resources.
 
By the time my nurses have found the A-line equipment and hooked it up, the patient either has ROSC, or we've called the code and moved on. This seriously adds nothing, except to docs who get all horned up by doing procedures.
 
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By the time my nurses have found the A-line equipment and hooked it up, the patient either has ROSC, or we've called the code and moved on. This seriously adds nothing, except to docs who get all horned up by doing procedures.

I first ask the nurses, do you know how to set up an arterial line? I'd say 1/2 of them don't know how to do it.
 
I agree that placing a line on every arrest patient is probably not useful in the vast majority of shops. It may be useful for pushing arrest management forward in places with extra hands and resources.

Therein lies the problem. Any procedure that you're doing infrequently in the ED gets lost amongst nursing turnover and nursing skill atrophy. I worked really hard several years ago to get a-line compatibility with a couple of our resus bays because the monitors we had were not compatible at the time. We got all the equipment but it's really just the rare oddball patent where I want to place an a-line and inevitably by the time I got around to wanting one, none of the nurses remembered how to do it or even where the equipment was located. So, our a-line compatible ED died a quick death. I can't even remember the last time I even wanted one during a code these days.
 
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I feel like with CVL and a-lines during out of hospital arrest, and maybe even in-hospital arrest....if there was really a benefit to them we would all be putting them in the moment they hit the door.

Just think about....someone comes in dead. What is the likelihood you can reverse death?

I'm not sure there is much room for improvement with people coming in dead. It's not like if we change our technique we would be saving 20% more people. That probably would have already been discovered.
 
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I've never understood FOAMed's obsession with intra-code A-line placement, Weingart being the most prominent proponent. He essentially recommends it on every single code. They are all about EBM, focusing on things with survival benefit, epi and amio don't work for coding pts, don't intubate a coding pt, etc. But despite the lack of literature to demonstrate patient oriented benefit of a-line placement in codes, most newer or academic ICU docs actually decreasing their use of a-lines, the extremely limited clinical utility that an A-line provides in an individual who is dead or peri-death, and adding additional procedures to a situation where we should be focusing on high quality CPR, they continue to recommend it. It makes little sense.

Weingart works in an academic ICU with tons of staff. They like placing A lines. Also, I think he just likes to mix things up without sufficient evidence. He has walked back several suggestions.
 
I think we are all getting at the same truth-- for us in community practice, out-of-hospital cardiac arrest (especially PEA in poor protoplasm) is going to go poorly until there is a sea change in our treatment modalities. The ONLY reason for A-lines in this population is for practice (which IS a valid though limited reason, IMHO).

Now, I can certainly image their utility during in-hospital or in-ED arrests, Vfib storm, "mega-codes" where the patient is in-and-out repeatedly, cases where ECMO may play a real role, and centers with 4+ MDs (residents, fellows) at bedside. These cases are a little piece of the pie, but even without a RCT I can believe the arguments in favor of a quick fem A line to help guide your treatment, as long as it isn't messing up any other aspects of your care.

Personally, the great majority of codes I resus are me + 2RN + RT, and sometimes a PA as well. I feeling like with continuous end-tidal CO2 on the ETT and 5 second or less echo's during compression-change-over / rhythm check I get pretty much all the info I would need from an intra-arrest A-line without spending a few minutes distracted in the groin with a needle. I frequently see pseudo-PEA on echo (i.e. brady PEA but with organized squeeze on the screen with EF of <5%... I'm sure if I had a fem A-line it would read 40/10 or something horrid). Until I have a new/meaningful special technique to fix this, aside from fluid / blood / ACLS / pressors I'm not clear as to what an A-line would add for me?
 
Well, since few people are answering your question, I'll try. I believe there can be benefit to an art line during a code, but not for every patient, and ONLY if you are not the physician running the code. For anyone that has run a code on a patient that already has an arterial line, you know that it makes decision making less burdensome, and I'm all for cognitive offloading.

Anyway, here's my approach.

I almost never use ultrasound if I'm placing it with active compressions, it is just too difficult to maintain a static view, not to mention find your needle tip. At most, if it's already at bedside I will take a quick peek before donning sterile gloves to identify the general location of the vessels. If I can't get access blind then I will abandon the procedure until ROSC is achieved.

Open both a femoral arterial line kit (NOT the integrated seldinger arrow kit, but the kit that has an 18gauge hollow bore needle and you have to thread the wire separately), and a central line kit. Chances are you will miss and then you can just put in the correct line.

I try to abduct the leg slightly, widely chlorhex (takes 10 seconds), find the crease and be confident about the location of the inguinal ligament before stabbing. Attempt to palpate a pulse with my non-dominant hand, and if I feel it, enter about 2cm caudad at a 45 degree angle and slightly medially to where I palpate. If I can't palpate a pulse, I enter typically more medially than my brain wants me to, as I find most people tend to miss because they are going too lateral. I don't go at a steep angle, I find this leads to a higher chance the wire doesn't thread. It also doesn't make sense to go steep and "flatten out" in a code situation, because it's just too likely you'll get outside the lumen when you attempt this with the entire patient bouncing. After I get flash, I swap hands and hold the needle stable (my nondominant hand is firmly on the crease prior to this to try to limit the "bouncing" from compressions and so I can immediately swap hands. The other key is having your wire immediately next to your dominant hand so you can enter as fast as possible, as well as having the wire "pre-loaded". What I mean is I extend the wire about 6cm out from the spool before I do anything so that once I get flash I can push it through the needle in a single motion with my arm, rather than awkwardly putting it up to the needle hub and scrolling it in with my thumb, inevitably losing my needle position in the lumen in the meantime. I also enter with the J tip pointing up (so the tip of the curl faces towards the ceiling), because it will enter the vessel more smoothly this way.

If I get flash and think it's venous, perfect, now you have a marker... I thread the CENTRAL LINE wire and remove the needle and just leave the wire flopping there (well, not quite flopping, I allow about 10cm to be out of the skin), and then stick about 1cm lateral to this floating wire with my art line needle, and you tend to quite easily find the artery at this point, thread the ART LINE wire, now you have two wires sticking out of the patient, make a couple nicks and you throw both lines in.

One other thing I thought of, if I get flash and can't thread and I think it's because there's too much movement so I'm not able to be steady enough, I will get through the skin with my dominant hand, but then switch to my nondominant, with my wrist resting firmly on the crease I'll try to find the vessel with this hand while hovering the wire at the hub with my dominant hand, so I can enter within a second or two of obtaining a flash.

Hope this is helpful if you choose to do a code art line. One last thing, it makes everything safer if you have an assistant gloved up to hand you the scalpel and take your sharps, as I agree that this is a risky procedure, and should only be undertaken if you're confident in your team to help you stay safe and if you are meticulous with handling sharps.
 
We should just start them all on ECMO out there.
I only wish the other people arguing for this were joking like I am.

One of the docs I work with works part time at University of Utah. They apparently do a ton of ECMO. I can't imagine any community hospital doing this, as it would essentially take an ED doc out of circulation for at least an hour every time a code came in. Plus not many of us are good at putting in large bore arterial catheters.
 
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The utility is to guide your hemodynamic resuscitation, e.g. so you don't give 1000 mcg of epi q3-5 mins to your patient who only needs 50-100 to maintain an adequate MAP + diastolic pressure. Also helps to minimize interruptions in chest compressions, which actually does make a difference in survival, as your pulse checks can be less than 2 seconds long to see if you have a pulsatile waveform. Lastly it will help you to bridge to ECMO for selected patients. But it probably doesn't make a real difference so I'm not aggressive with doing them, but they do come in handy in the patient who has an art line and then arrests.
 
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A femoral arterial line is easy enough to place during a code. I don't get what the hubbub is if you're going to legit work it for 20-30 minutes instead of calling it after 2 cycles.
 
1. my Nurses can’t set it up
2. I have no ECMO at my hospital
3. Potential waste of resources (those kits cost $$$)
4. No RCT to actually prove utility toward meaningful outcome (I.e., neuro intact departure from hospital).

change The last one and I’m sure 1. And 3. will change.
 
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