Fellowships in no-resident hospitals

[byungwooy]

I'll be starting to apply for fellowships this summer and I would like to know if anyone has experience or inputs about fellowship programs in cancer centers where there are no residents. MD-Anderson, Memorial Sloan-Kettring etc..
I've heard that fellows have to work and function as a resident there but will learn alot. A little different story but Ackermans institute for Dermpath also doesn't have residents. I guess for derm it is a different story.
I'm basically interested in these placecs to apply for a fellowship either in Surgepath or Dermpath. Does anyone have experience with these places or any inputs ?

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[PathOne]

I'll be starting to apply for fellowships this summer and I would like to know if anyone has experience or inputs about fellowship programs in cancer centers where there are no residents. MD-Anderson, Memorial Sloan-Kettring etc..
I've heard that fellows have to work and function as a resident there but will learn alot. A little different story but Ackermans institute for Dermpath also doesn't have residents. I guess for derm it is a different story.
I'm basically interested in these placecs to apply for a fellowship either in Surgepath or Dermpath. Does anyone have experience with these places or any inputs ?

I have experience from two of the three institutions you mention. Basically, all three will give you a truly world-class training experience.
Scut-work isn't really a big issue. There's an extraordinary amount of money, experience and support structures at all three. Also, bear in mind that A LOT of what they look at is second-opinion stuff, so you'll see more special and difficult stuff than basically anywhere else on the planet - and it's all cut and fixed when you get it.
However, at all three substantial research in your fellowship year is more or less a requirement. So hours can be VERY long. And the work is highly demanding. If you don't adequately prepare for your slide reviews, or otherwise disappoint the attendings, they CAN and WILL refuse to certify you for your boards exam.

Also, I think you have to make up your mind if you want to do surg path/oncology or dermpath. For various reasons, MD Anderson and Sloan-Kettering aren't obvious choices for dermpath, While Ackerman obviously is dermpath only. If you want to keep your options open, I'd recommend Brigham & Women's in Boston. They have far and away the best mix of BOTH surg path and dermpath. (but behind MDA, MSK and AAD in respectively surg path and dermpath, and only truly #1 in soft tissue pathology). UCSF are also generally pretty strong in both surg path and dermpath.

 

[LADoc00]

I applied to both Sloan and MD Anderson and didnt go to either place. I wasnt a big fan of returning to "water boy" status after 3 years as an upperclassman if that makes any sense.

 

[byungwooy]

Thanks for the input ! Wow I had no idea that the attendings had the power to not certify someone for the board exam ! I mean.. even if they had the power, how can they be so mean to their fellow who has worked so hard day and night for them ? I don't know what their expectation for the fellow is but as PathOne said, it must be really high. As is the case in many programs, I've heard both good and bad stories about MDA & MSK. I was considering doing Surgepath in one of these places and apply for Dermpath fellowship at Akerman institute. Even if I don't get the dermpath position, surgepath training in MDA or MSK hopefully will suffice for finding a job in private practice.

 

[PathProspect]

Excellent post -- not much is usually mentioned here about fellowships. Do you know what most of the fellows at sloan end up doing career wise after completing a subspecialty fellowship there.

Do you know where the best fellowships for head/neck or endocrine?

thanks

I have experience from two of the three institutions you mention. Basically, all three will give you a truly world-class training experience.
Scut-work isn't really a big issue. There's an extraordinary amount of money, experience and support structures at all three. Also, bear in mind that A LOT of what they look at is second-opinion stuff, so you'll see more special and difficult stuff than basically anywhere else on the planet - and it's all cut and fixed when you get it.
However, at all three substantial research in your fellowship year is more or less a requirement. So hours can be VERY long. And the work is highly demanding. If you don't adequately prepare for your slide reviews, or otherwise disappoint the attendings, they CAN and WILL refuse to certify you for your boards exam.

Also, I think you have to make up your mind if you want to do surg path/oncology or dermpath. For various reasons, MD Anderson and Sloan-Kettering aren't obvious choices for dermpath, While Ackerman obviously is dermpath only. If you want to keep your options open, I'd recommend Brigham & Women's in Boston. They have far and away the best mix of BOTH surg path and dermpath. (but behind MDA, MSK and AAD in respectively surg path and dermpath, and only truly #1 in soft tissue pathology). UCSF are also generally pretty strong in both surg path and dermpath.

 

[PathOne]

Not really sure a MD Anderson/Sloan-Kettering fellowship will help with Ackerman (long story)... Also, be aware that MSKCC often wants you to stay for two fellowships: Oncologic Pathology + subspec fellowship=2-3 years. Not sure about MD Anderson.

Re. endo/H&N fellowships: I think the key to a lot of the fairly specific sub-fellowships is that it's more about the man (or woman) than the name of the institution. In the specific subspecialities, there's usually a few people who stand out, and thus attract a lot of special stuff and are (sometimes) good to be around.

Wouldn't claim to be an expert (very far from it in fact) in either of the two you mention, but both M.D. Anderson and MSKCC has a fairly large amount of head-and-neck stuff, endocrine is a bit more rare. But just to throw in some alternatives, you could think about Bruce Wenig at Einstein/Beth Israel for head/neck and Douglas Gnepp at Brown for endo.

HOWEVER, if you're not looking to go into academic pathology as a career, I think that both MD Anderson and MSKCC would be overkill. Honestly, if you go private you: A) Usually don't really spend your time publishing, so why train at a very research-oriented institution? B) Send the really difficult stuff to ... MSKCC, MD Anderson etc. Ackerman is different. There, the majority of fellows move into private practise.