All Branch Topic (ABT) Fellowship and Retention Bonus

[jsmittyund03]

To you well informed and educated persons,

I am currently serving as an active duty dermatologist in the Army, ADSO to 2018. I recently have been selected for a fellowship which I applied through MODS, and am due to apply to civilian fellowship programs, Army sponsored, as it is not currently offered in military facilities. The timing was right, as I will be starting fellowship when my ADSO comes to an end, and thus I was under the impression I would be eligible for a concomitant retention bonus to be served with the well known "loophole" during fellowship and afterwards during my service obligation for the training. My special pay personnel at my facility are worthless (they have repeatedly told me the new contracts for the new special pay doesn't go into effect until October, my BCP stopped in January and they have yet to reinitiate it, etc) but when discussing with them, they told me the retention bonus payback would occur after my training ADSO, not concurrently. Am I crazy or is this accurate? I will check my email as I'm certain I received a MEDCOM email with an attachment confirming the retention of this "loophole." Any help would be appreciated.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Homunculus]

you can certainly sign your bonuses now and realign them to 1 July. you'll repay a chunk (3 months) of last Octobers old ISP

the problem with their logic is you can sign the retention bonus (formerly Multiyear special pay) prior to obligating yourself to the fellowship. your obligation for fellowship doesn't start until you start your fellowship on 1 July. so if you sign your retention bonus june 30, at the time you sign it, you are agreeing to serve 4 more years. then the next day, lo and behold, you start a 3 year fellowship that does incur an obligation that is served concurrently with the RB.

i attached the navy document and quoted the applicable text with emphasis on the meaty part:

(2) When no education and training ADSO exists at the time of an RB contract execution, the RB ADSO shall be served concurrently with the RB contract period and all non-education and training ADSOs. Also, if the RB contract is executed before the start date of residency/fellowship training and no other education and training ADSO exists, the RB ADSO shall be served concurrently with the RB contract period. However, if the RB contract is executed on or after the start date of residency/fellowship, the Physician is obligated for the full residency/fellowship period and the RB ADSO shall begin 1 day after the residency/fellowship ADSO is completed. Once a Physician has begun to serve an RB ADSO, he or she shall serve it concurrently with any future ADSO, including obligations for other special pay agreements or medical education and training obligations incurred after the execution date for that particular RB contract.

the army slide set is here: https://hr.mods.army.mil/SpecialPay/About/Index the presentation states

Requires agreement for 2, 3, or 4-yr ADO; served after completion of any education/training ADO


(i.e. HPLRP, Residency, Fellowship)

if you parse it out it means you have to have completed any *current* obligation, not potential future obligations.

the dates are EXTREMELY important. screw the dates up and your 4 years is tacked on to the end.

good luck and if you have issues go to the branch specific pay people

--your friendly neighborhood this is where details matter caveman

 

[SeminoleFan3]

you can certainly sign your bonuses now and realign them to 1 July. you'll repay a chunk (3 months) of last Octobers old ISP

the problem with their logic is you can sign the retention bonus (formerly Multiyear special pay) prior to obligating yourself to the fellowship. your obligation for fellowship doesn't start until you start your fellowship on 1 July. so if you sign your retention bonus june 30, at the time you sign it, you are agreeing to serve 4 more years. then the next day, lo and behold, you start a 3 year fellowship that does incur an obligation that is served concurrently with the RB.

i attached the navy document and quoted the applicable text with emphasis on the meaty part:



the army slide set is here: https://hr.mods.army.mil/SpecialPay/About/Index the presentation states



if you parse it out it means you have to have completed any *current* obligation, not potential future obligations.

the dates are EXTREMELY important. screw the dates up and your 4 years is tacked on to the end.

good luck and if you have issues go to the branch specific pay people

--your friendly neighborhood this is where details matter caveman

But if his ADSO is until 01JUL then it's moot, right? Since his fellowship would start 01JUL, and thus he'd roll right in to back to back obligations without even a day in between them?

 

[Homunculus]

But if his ADSO is until 01JUL then it's moot, right? Since his fellowship would start 01JUL, and thus he'd roll right in to back to back obligations without even a day in between them?

no. my wife was in this scenario. I suspect it is because people with 1 July ADSOs are not education/training ADSOs. the education/training timer really runs out in june-- when most people graduate residency. the obligation from the prior MASP contract (the 1 July-30 June "doctor bonus" obligation) is what nails people to july-- not education or training-- just money. I'm don't have any sources but I vaguely recall all those entry dates coming into play. so don't quote me on that.

bottom line, ultimately there is a window of a couple of weeks at the end of june you can do this. my wife had paid off her HPSP time and had her multiyear dated sometime toward the end of june- like the 25th or so. her fellowship started july 1. even if you signed your fellowship contract back in march /april (which you normally have to do to accept it to get orders cut to PCS) you technically haven't started and incurred an obligation until 1 July. the multiyear doesn't even have to be *approved* in june, it just must be time stamped/submitted in june. that's why you have to really make sure your contract/pay person is on the ball.

would be interesting if anyone else has any experience with this, but I don't think anything has really changed.

--your friendly neighborhood if they take this away we'll only be left with the GI bill caveman

 

[SeminoleFan3]

no. my wife was in this scenario. I suspect it is because people with 1 July ADSOs are not education/training ADSOs. the education/training timer really runs out in june-- when most people graduate residency. the obligation from the prior MASP contract (the 1 July-30 June "doctor bonus" obligation) is what nails people to july-- not education or training-- just money. I'm don't have any sources but I vaguely recall all those entry dates coming into play. so don't quote me on that.

bottom line, ultimately there is a window of a couple of weeks at the end of june you can do this. my wife had paid off her HPSP time and had her multiyear dated sometime toward the end of june- like the 25th or so. her fellowship started july 1. even if you signed your fellowship contract back in march /april (which you normally have to do to accept it to get orders cut to PCS) you technically haven't started and incurred an obligation until 1 July. the multiyear doesn't even have to be *approved* in june, it just must be time stamped/submitted in june. that's why you have to really make sure your contract/pay person is on the ball.

would be interesting if anyone else has any experience with this, but I don't think anything has really changed.

--your friendly neighborhood if they take this away we'll only be left with the GI bill caveman

I think in the Navy it's 01JUL, not June. A friend submitted his packet a few weeks late and instead of getting out in July (like most) he had to push back to august. That wouldn't have happened with a June end to his ADSO. Also, I had some maternity leave in residency and had to stay 2 extra weeks, which pushed my date into August (when it otherwise would have been July).

 

[SeminoleFan3]

Although I guess the OP is Army, so the Navy issue is extraneous.

 

[ishii123]

To you well informed and educated persons,

I am currently serving as an active duty dermatologist in the Army, ADSO to 2018. I recently have been selected for a fellowship which I applied through MODS, and am due to apply to civilian fellowship programs, Army sponsored, as it is not currently offered in military facilities. The timing was right, as I will be starting fellowship when my ADSO comes to an end, and thus I was under the impression I would be eligible for a concomitant retention bonus to be served with the well known "loophole" during fellowship and afterwards during my service obligation for the training. My special pay personnel at my facility are worthless (they have repeatedly told me the new contracts for the new special pay doesn't go into effect until October, my BCP stopped in January and they have yet to reinitiate it, etc) but when discussing with them, they told me the retention bonus payback would occur after my training ADSO, not concurrently. Am I crazy or is this accurate? I will check my email as I'm certain I received a MEDCOM email with an attachment confirming the retention of this "loophole." Any help would be appreciated.

Does your FTOS fellowship start in Summer 2018?
If yes, if you signed up for the Retention Bonus (formerly called Multiyear Special Pay - MSP) BEFORE the start of your fellowship, then I think you should be okay (with payback being concurrent). I've heard rumors that the "fellowship loophole" still exists in the new medical special pay system, but I have not verified whether or not this is true.

I was in a similar situation as you. I did a military residency, was doing a utilization tour, and applied and got accepted to a 1-year FTOS fellowship. My military service obligation was to be "Zero" when I started my FTOS Fellowship in July 2011. I signed a 3-year MSP just BEFORE the start of my 1-year FTOS fellowship, which resulted in my payback being concurrent. Since my payback was concurrent, this meant my 3-year MSP would expire around the same time my fellowship obligation requirement ended (Under military FTOS rules, you owe 2-years for a 1-year fellowship). So I could have resigned from active duty military life in July 2014.

 

[ActiveDutyNavy]

Does your FTOS fellowship start in Summer 2018?
If yes, if you signed up for the Retention Bonus (formerly called Multiyear Special Pay - MSP) BEFORE the start of your fellowship, then I think you should be okay (with payback being concurrent). I've heard rumors that the "fellowship loophole" still exists in the new medical special pay system, but I have not verified whether or not this is true.

I was in a similar situation as you. I did a military residency, was doing a utilization tour, and applied and got accepted to a 1-year FTOS fellowship. My military service obligation was to be "Zero" when I started my FTOS Fellowship in July 2011. I signed a 3-year MSP just BEFORE the start of my 1-year FTOS fellowship, which resulted in my payback being concurrent. Since my payback was concurrent, this meant my 3-year MSP would expire around the same time my fellowship obligation requirement ended (Under military FTOS rules, you owe 2-years for a 1-year fellowship). So I could have resigned from active duty military life in July 2014.

The fellowship "loophole" still exists in the new CSP, the only difference is they have done away with the 8 years of service clause. Now the only way to sign an initial RB is have completed your "initial" educational commitment (USUHS, HPSP, HSCP).

 

[Slevin]

The fellowship "loophole" still exists in the new CSP, the only difference is they have done away with the 8 years of service clause. Now the only way to sign an initial RB is have completed your "initial" educational commitment (USUHS, HPSP, HSCP).

I'm getting ready to start residency after being a GMO for 4 years. Even though I'm currently in residency could I potentially sign a retention bonus?

 

[backrow]

I'm getting ready to start residency after being a GMO for 4 years. Even though I'm currently in residency could I potentially sign a retention bonus?

There's no RB for residents. You have to be residency trained to sign an RB as the amount is based on your specialty.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app