Feeling Bad about Dentistry 400k?

[Cold Front]

Hence why you budget. You need to know what you can afford and what you cannot. That couple got to do plenty of things in their youth. They didn't live like automatons. So your point is moot. If you meant Did they have to sacrafice not going into debt to pay for a 250k yacht? Well yes they did. did they sacrafice not going on vacations? No they did plenty of that because they budgeted for it.

Keyword: BUDGET

If you can't afford 4 kids you can't afford it.

Moot? I don't understand. There is no silver bullet (or budget) for anyone to zoom through life. There are so many variables from one person to another, let alone from one couple to another. You may have control over your bank account, but you have no control over your spouse developing depression if she has miscarriage, or your kids are born with high cost conditions, or even you hating dentistry in the real world when you practice.

As the saying goes from the duo Outkast, "you can plan for a perfect picnic, but you can't predict the weather".

Did I mention divorce? Even the married couple with kids who are most in love today could have a great start to their life, which is great, doesn't make them financially immune to the ups and downs of life later on. The wind may not even blow the same direction for you when you get there either.

Advise... Worry about those things later, get your dental diploma first.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Moot? I don't understand. There is no silver bullet (or budget) for anyone to zoom through life. There are so many variables from one person to another, let alone from one couple to another. You may have control over your bank account, but you have no control over your spouse developing depression if she has miscarriage, or your kids are born with high cost conditions, or even you hating dentistry in the real world when you practice.

As the saying goes from the duo Outkast, "you can plan for a perfect picnic, but you can't predict the weather".

Did I mention divorce? Even the married couple with kids who are most in love today could have a great start to their life, which is great, doesn't make them financially immune to the ups and downs of life later on. The wind may not even blow the same direction for you when you get there either.

Advise... Worry about those things later, get your dental diploma first.

Anybody else sing those Outkast lyrics in their head?

 

[Incis0r]

This is such a great thread. Lots of wisdom from all perspectives. Thank you for posting, each of you.

 

[schmoob]

Anybody else sing those Outkast lyrics in their head?

Oh my gosh it's scary. I was in high school when that song came out.

I am fo real.

 

[Likkriue]

You plan your budget around your life, not the other way around.

I completely disagree with this and everything else written against me so far.
I'll do me and you guys can do you.

You are much more in control of your life than you guys believe. Life isn't as random as you would like to think.

 

[cacajuate]

I completely disagree with this and everything else written against me so far.
I'll do me and you guys can do you.

You are much more in control of your life than you guys believe. Life isn't as random as you would like to think.

Forgive me for being a prick but you just sound like a kid that doesn't have the experience to understand what everyone is saying.

 

[Likkriue]

Forgive me for being a prick but you just sound like a kid that doesn't have the experience to understand what everyone is saying.

I don't care what strangers on the Internet think about me. Thanks for the concern however.

 

[znny19]

Things are getting fiesty in here lol^

Anyway one of my friends sent me this. May be of some use to people. Also 4 more months till that i get that sweet DDS

 

[distressstudent]

Things are getting fiesty in here lol^

damn nice video. I was planning to do one for my school, but I guess some other dental student got the jump on me. This was the plan I have been talking to people about (after picking it up on DT) and wanted to present it to the class. Just skimmed through parts of the video and it seems pretty good so far; will critique it later when I find the time.

 

[Faux]

 

[Likkriue]

Lol I think we are all fine in here. Just a tiny disagreement.

 

[JHIBB]

Because PAYE/IBR is by no means a a slavery trap?

It is not enslaving you a debt that you weren't already bound to. There's no "trap". It is a very viable method of repaying your loans if you're smart about it

You shouldn't enter a 400k school thinking IBR/PAYE is going to fix your problem. But relying on IBR/PAYE is not a financial mistake, and on the contrary can save you a buttload of money

You have that much faith in the government to run up your debt hoping that legislation is unchanged before you get out by simply paying your “tax bomb” ?

 

[JHIBB]

I'm living proof of someone who had 400k debt 3 years ago. yea its not fun. I had to move to a rural place to make money. if i had no debt, I probably would have bought a practice in an area where I could really put my roots down, a place where I would feel comfortable raising my future children.

Can I ask where you located too?

 

[Robbin]

Two years are less, you will be under stress.

 

[ProspectivePostPreDent]

i would not do dentistry for 400K, not even for 350K. 300K is pushing it. You have to think of the lost income potential while you are in school, plus the interest and tuition increases that will happen through the four years you are in school. this is why it's always a good idea to keep your options open. Medicine has always been the better alternative imo. Great pay and solid job prospects pretty much anywhere in the country and not as expensive as dental school. Dentistry is becoming a dime a dozen like lawyers with all these new schools opening. I've been practicing for 9 years. 400K = not worth it in so many ways.

You're right that the cost is ridiculous, but the lawyer comparison is way off.

The barriers to opening law schools are tiny in comparison - there are hundreds, many of which boast matriculant GPAs in the mid 2s.

It is incredibly common for JDs from these low end schools to be working little county jobs for 55k, whereas any full time dentist who isn't doing something dumb like associating in a California metro will make at least triple that sooner than later.

Finally, the ratio of dental grads to us population is actually lower than it was 40 years ago, so the trend has been positive on the whole.

 

[theleatherwalle]

You're right that the cost is ridiculous, but the lawyer comparison is way off.

The barriers to opening law schools are tiny in comparison - there are hundreds, many of which boast matriculant GPAs in the mid 2s.

It is incredibly common for JDs from these low end schools to be working little county jobs for 55k, whereas any full time dentist who isn't doing something dumb like associating in a California metro will make at least triple that sooner than later.

Finally, the ratio of dental grads to us population is actually lower than it was 40 years ago, so the trend has been positive on the whole.

The trend may be positive. I don't believe it it is unless you have data, but reimbursement is down.

 

[ProspectivePostPreDent]

The trend may be positive. I don't believe it it is unless you have data, but reimbursement is down.

Heh. On any other forum, this is the place where you are hit with the sarcastic "let me google that for you" link, but I already know where some numbers are, so I'll share.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2015/088.pdf

The graduates are in that chart, then factor in that the US population in 1978 was 226.5 million, and it is currently 326.8 million.

Yeah, reimbursements are down overall (though you have to factor in some of the frivolous spending going on in the early 2000s which was surely not sustainable), but once again, the comparison to pharmacy would be massive hyperbole, much less law school, which has gone from being seen as a dream job on par with physician to matriculating thousands of students every year who barely survived a communications major (and it's only getting worse as matriculation drops by the thousands every year).

IOW, I mostly attribute the reimbursement to slice-in-time market corrections as opposed to some big, bad trend. You may differ, but looking at our trajectory versus most other high-education jobs, and the numbers are pretty okay.

 

[aggie-master]

If you are borrowing 400k to pay for school that sounds more like 500k of debt when you factor in origination fees and interest while in school.

I would not recommend dental school if the only way to get through is 500k in debt. Most young dentists don’t make anywhere near enough to pay that off in a reasonable time and save for retirement and live the lifestyle they are hoping for.

I am six years out and have averaged 200k in income over those six years which believe it or not is above average for the first six years out. Taxes take a big chunk out of that. Health insurance is really expensive and 100% paid by you. I have kids and up until recently a stay at home wife. If you subtract the 10 year note payment from a 500k loan from that (70k of after tax income) it will kill any chances of saving or enjoying the good things in life like a vacation or a nice car.

If you are smart and hard working enough to get into and through dental school you might kick butt in another career and not have to carry that debt on your shoulders.

I am not a doom and gloom person in general. I think I’ll average closer to 300k in income in the next six years and I am recommending that my nephew go to dental school but he’ll get out with 300k or less in debt and be hooked up with a job making about what I make right out of school. I just wouldn’t recommend it at the 500k plus debt level.

 

[redfish955]

They can charge this amount because the prospects for pre dentistry normally aren't very good. Your likely not picking between Chemical Engineering at Texaco and dentist. If you go to rural you can consolidate your loan and finance 250k to open a practice. You would be in less debt than someone that went to a 250k state school and spent 500k to open a practice in a big city. You will also have inflation on your side. Average inflation is 2.5-3.5%. This means that if you do a 20 year loan plan your base salary of 150k would grow to like 250k and your payments would remain the same.

 

[Drifter_]

Except the loan will be growing at a 7+% interest rate

 

[redfish955]

Except the loan will be growing at a 7+% interest rate

If you have a 650k loan at 7% interest and pay 50k a year on it you will pay it off in 30 years. This amount will never increase. If you earn 175k today you will earn 375k 30 years from now. These are some good tools to see what your actually getting yourself into. CPI Inflation Calculator Loan Calculator | Bankrate.com | Calculate your loan payment today! Basicly if you earned 175k a year in today dollars you could start out giving yourself a 90k salary and after 30 years you would be around a 135k salary. Even if you only earned like 130k you would start off with a 50k salary that would grow to 6 figures. Unless your earning an absurd amount of money it would likely take at least 15 years to live frugally and pay it all off which most people don't want to wait until they are 40 to start a family and ect.

 

[aggie-master]

They can charge this amount because the prospects for pre dentistry normally aren't very good. Your likely not picking between Chemical Engineering at Texaco and dentist. If you go to rural you can consolidate your loan and finance 250k to open a practice. You would be in less debt than someone that went to a 250k state school and spent 500k to open a practice in a big city. You will also have inflation on your side. Average inflation is 2.5-3.5%. This means that if you do a 20 year loan plan your base salary of 150k would grow to like 250k and your payments would remain the same.

Inflation doesn't always make your pay go up. Last year I had my best year as far as my personal production and my pay went down 30k because of inflation on my cost side outpacing insurance reimbursement rates. If you end up in-network with a lot of plans in your office you will see that the insurance companies don't give cost of living adjustments to their rates that they pay. You will have to be a good business person to be able to keep your profits steady and rising. Being a good dentist alone is not enough.

 

[allantois]

They can charge this amount because the prospects for pre dentistry normally aren't very good. Your likely not picking between Chemical Engineering at Texaco and dentist. If you go to rural you can consolidate your loan and finance 250k to open a practice. You would be in less debt than someone that went to a 250k state school and spent 500k to open a practice in a big city. You will also have inflation on your side. Average inflation is 2.5-3.5%. This means that if you do a 20 year loan plan your base salary of 150k would grow to like 250k and your payments would remain the same.

Salaries have not gone up in over a decade despite the inflation

 

[charlestweed]

Salaries have not gone up in over a decade despite the inflation

It's true that my incomes (from both my P/T corp job and from my own offices) have not risen in the last 10 years. The corp offices that I work for are losing patients due to the openings of new competing corp offices nearby. And therefore, my bonuses have gone down. As my kids and I are getting older, I need to spend more time with them. I spend less time doing marketing for my own offices (ie going door to door to meet the GPs and working less hours etc). I don’t hope to grow my practices ….if the production for this year is the same as the prior years, I am happy. To attract more patients and to maintain the success of my business, I have kept the treatment fees same as when I first started my office 12+ years ago. The cost of running the practice (rent, staff salaries, worker comp, property insurance, licensing fees etc) has also increased. Luckily, I can offset such increase by buying less expensive wires and brackets. With experience, I can work with any bracket type.

My “take home” income, however, is much larger now than it was in the past because I no longer have to spend $15-20k every month to pay down my debts (student loan, practice loan, home mortgage, investment properties’ loans etc). With no more debt burden (the only thing left for me to pay now is the home mortgage), I no longer need to work hard like I did in the past, I no longer have fear of losing my P/T job at the corp….and not having to do marketing and to rely on the GPs for referrals really makes my job a lot more enjoyable.

When you are young and healthy, work hard to pay off all the debts ASAP so you can afford to slow down when you are in your 40s, 50s.... and still bring home more $$$.

 

[theleatherwalle]

Reimbursement hasn't gone up, but a more troubling trend is that mouths are getting healthier....Put some damn sugar in the water I'm not gonna get rich at this rate!

To go back to the original question of this thread..

Dentistry under 200k-Fantastic
Dentistry 200k-300k-Okay.
Dentistry 300k+....I personally would need to commit to a rural practice or specialize.

 

[noretsu]

So I just received word that I am placed on an Army HPSP Order of Merits List. I need someone to help me rationalize and derive some motivation for me because I feel really let down and unable to concentrate on my classes knowing I will be 400,000$ in debt. I am in first year and my debt will be a MINIMUM of 400,000 Principal. I am not feeling good about a career in dentistry. I feel worse when people say "If you do it because you love what you are doing you will be fine!. I cant focus on my classes. I have friends who are making 60k no debt and I think by all is said and done, they are promoted we will have broken even $$ wise but I will have burdened my youth with high stress education on a job deemed valuable, with half a million dollar shackle on it. Can somebody bring my spirits up? Can somebody explain some alternatives to paying this beast off? I cannot concentrate or derive motivation at the moment to do well in my classes.

Ill be honest. Not worth it if you will be graduating with more than 300k. Too much weight. I worked my butt off to pay off mine at about 300k. After 6 years of not seeing my loans shrink I decided to focus. I paid it off in 10 months but had to really really really work hard. Wouldnt wish that pain on anyone. I think dental schools are scamming kids nowdays.

 

[schmoob]

Ill be honest. Not worth it if you will be graduating with more than 300k. Too much weight. I worked my butt off to pay off mine at about 300k. After 6 years of not seeing my loans shrink I decided to focus. I paid it off in 10 months but had to really really really work hard. Wouldnt wish that pain on anyone. I think dental schools are scamming kids nowdays.

You paid off $300K in 10 months, I'm not seeing the downside here. Sounds like you're scott-free

 

[2TH MVR]

You paid off $300K in 10 months, I'm not seeing the downside here. Sounds like you're scott-free

$30K a month. Wow. Bitcoin investment work out?

 

[deleted659902]

$30K a month. Wow. Bitcoin investment work out?

My guess is that either he married rich, got out of a relationship, or bought a practice.

 

[InformMe123]

how long does it take to pay off a bread and butter gp practice in a suburb (assuming no student loans) if one wanted to do it relatively quickly?

 

[noretsu]

$30K a month. Wow. Bitcoin investment

My guess is that either he married rich, got out of a relationship, or bought a practice.

My wife and I both come from humble backgrounds. No help from parents or inlaws. Bought a practice that had associates working it and I then decided to work anywhere in US that would pay the most... so I was working another job as well long distance. So 2 incomes basically. According to my debt spreadsheet I paid off 390,465.65 cents after taxes in 10 months. Dental school debt was 325k of that with remaining amnt a practice loan. I would recommend everyone make an excel spreadsheet and live by it. Every time you pay a loan off then you can x it out. Its very motivating way to do it. .

 

[Munks]

Luckily, I can offset such increase by buying less expensive wires and brackets. With experience, I can work with any bracket type.

Now this may have been a while ago, but I thought I remembered you using 3m's Victory pre-pasted so you can bond by yourself tying up an assistant. What are ya using now? Ones off safco or net32 or similar? And are you still solo bonding or was that a young ortho's problem

 

[charlestweed]

Now this may have been a while ago, but I thought I remembered you using 3m's Victory pre-pasted so you can bond by yourself tying up an assistant. What are ya using now? Ones off safco or net32 or similar? And are you still solo bonding or was that a young ortho's problem

3M’s prepasted brackets and one step self etching primer don’t really help reduce the chair time that much. They are marketing gimmicks. Technology and things like fancy self-ligating brackets don’t help reduce the chair time. What really helps reducing the chair time is the orthodontist’s clinical experience, which allows him/her to make treatment decisions quickly and accurately. Proper diagnoses and tx plannings (and not the technology) will help yield better clinical results with shorter chair time and overall tx time.

I still do many of the bondings myself, especially when I am at my own office because I don’t like to make my patients wait (good customer service helps bring more patients). While I go around checking other active patients' teeth and writting down the tasks for my assistants to perform, one of my assistants can isolate, etch, and rinse the teeth on the bonding patient for me. I then come in to make sure these teeth are properly etched and dried (ie each tooth must have a frosty white appearance). I then apply the primer and start placing the brackets and light curing them. I am very big on proper bonding and isolation techniques. Some assistants don’t really care…they just etch, rinse, apply primer, and place the brackets and not checking how well the teeth are isolated and prepared. You can have expensive brackets and still have high bonding failure rate if you don't bond them properly. High bonding failure rate will lead to longer tx time, more angry patients, loss of patients’ trust, and more emergency office visits.

The reason I used 3M prepasted brackets in the past was 3M gave me a good grad order package. I paid the same price as the non-prepasted brackets. Once that deal was gone, I switched to GAC. And when GAC stopped giving me good deals, I switched to Ormco…and then to Forestadent. And now, I use non-brand name brackets that cost many times less. Brackets are simply the handles that allow you to grab the teeth and move them. Since the brackets will be discarded at the end of the tx, there’s no reason to spend a lot of money on them.

 

[yappy]

Marrying a woman who makes 30-40 an hour at a professional job is quite possible.bare you going to tell me she needs to stay at home?

The type of situation I prefer for my family involves one parent being at home full time during kids' crucial developmental years. I realize this is not how everyone sees it and that is fine. IMO foregoing even 100/hr is peanuts compared to taking care of your kids. Each family approaches these things differently and has hopefully ironed it all out before committing

 

[yappy]

So who is stopping you from doing it?

No one. What is your point?

 

[Likkriue]

The type of situation I prefer for my family involves one parent being at home full time during kids' crucial developmental years. I realize this is not how everyone sees it and that is fine. IMO foregoing even 100/hr is peanuts compared to taking care of your kids. Each family approaches these things differently and has hopefully ironed it all out before committing

So all the female dentists have to find stay at home dads.

 

[charlestweed]

Marrying a woman who makes 30-40 an hour at a professional job is quite possible.bare you going to tell me she needs to stay at home?

Having good work ethics and strong determination are exactly what I look for in a woman and my wife fits the description. She spoke very little English when she came to the US at the age of 17. She didn't waste any year. She went to several community colleges to make sure she completed all required classes in 2 years. She then transferred to a 4yr university, got accepted to a dental school and earned her perio certificate at the age of 28. I am sure my wife picked me for the same reason. I studied hard because I didn't want to be a loser..... nobody wants to marry a loser.

Thank to our good incomes (having 2 incomes is always better than having 1), we were able to pay off our $450k student loan in short amount of time. My wife is very good at multitasking. She can be the good mom to our kids while making 6-figure income at the same time. She works while the kids are at school.

Young kids (5 yo or below) don't usually remember what you did for them. So work as many days and save as much as you can while they are still young. Hire a live-in nanny and work 7 days/week, if you have to. By the time your kids enter 2nd and 3rd grades, all your loans should be paid off. You can afford to work fewer hours and spend more time with them.

 

[LGM]

So I just received word that I am placed on an Army HPSP Order of Merits List. I need someone to help me rationalize and derive some motivation for me because I feel really let down and unable to concentrate on my classes knowing I will be 400,000$ in debt. I am in first year and my debt will be a MINIMUM of 400,000 Principal. I am not feeling good about a career in dentistry. I feel worse when people say "If you do it because you love what you are doing you will be fine!. I cant focus on my classes. I have friends who are making 60k no debt and I think by all is said and done, they are promoted we will have broken even $$ wise but I will have burdened my youth with high stress education on a job deemed valuable, with half a million dollar shackle on it. Can somebody bring my spirits up? Can somebody explain some alternatives to paying this beast off? I cannot concentrate or derive motivation at the moment to do well in my classes.

Easy and cheap financial planning? Just walk into a random bank around you (hopefully they have a branch near your new school too), open up a savings account, and ask for the banker for a piece of advice. They might not be the best people in the whole market but they'd know the deals. Btw, don't open an entire packet of checking, savings, CD, mutual funds, etc. on 1 day. Just open 1 that day and save others for later

 

[321931]

Easy and cheap financial planning? Just walk into a random bank around you (hopefully they have a branch near your new school too), open up a savings account, and ask for the banker for a piece of advice. They might not be the best people in the whole market but they'd know the deals. Btw, don't open an entire packet of checking, savings, CD, mutual funds, etc. on 1 day. Just open 1 that day and save others for later

A banker would tell you to not pursue dental school.

 

[321931]

Would it help if there were posters that posted “Theh paid off 700k in 3 years” so it’s worth it?

Everyone’s post is basically seeking validation of the enormous debt... Which tells me a lot.

I guess if someone posted next they paid of 2 mil of debt in 10 years and have it all that would mean dental school is valid price for 1 mil.”

Sorta stupid imo

 

[Debtistry]

You plan your budget around your life, not the other way around.

Agreed.

So pretty much just think about your "wants," at the end of the road (and they might change as the years go on, that's why its important to reassess every so often). Everyone has different opinions because everyone has different things they want to achieve at some point in their lives. Some want to have kids or own a house, while others may just want a couple corgis and would rather live liberally. Debt is definitely something to fear, but at the same time its also an investment into a (yes, costly) career with open opportunities. Welcome to game of adulthood my friend!

 

[321931]

Agreed.

So pretty much just think about your "wants," at the end of the road (and they might change as the years go on, that's why its important to reassess every so often). Everyone has different opinions because everyone has different things they want to achieve at some point in their lives. Some want to have kids or own a house, while others may just want a couple corgis and would rather live liberally. Debt is definitely something to fear, but at the same time its also an investment into a (yes, costly) career with open opportunities. Welcome to game of adulthood my friend!

Have you heard of investing into the Stock Market. Well, if you wanted to tomorrow you could invest into Amazon 1850 at an all time high or other things in the Nasdaq/Dow Jones. Is there open opportunities into investing at that level? yes. But everyone knows we are due for a correction soon. Tuition like dentistry has become a bubble. There are some low lying stocks that have potential like atvi, maybe roku.....just like some trade schools like electrician or plumbing that will give you great returns on investment....or you could go with the all time highs of some big name stocks...just like some big name professions. Whether it all comes tumbling down. Who knows. In the 80's alot of dental schools closed because of it. In the 01/08 alot of people lost everything. Who knows.

We are a at crossroads of where there are tons of dentists... high tuition... corporate taking over and lower reimbursement. Just knows if it all comes crashing down, student loans cannot be forgiven. Your choice of investment.

 

[LGM]

Have you heard of investing into the Stock Market. Well, if you wanted to tomorrow you could invest into Amazon 1850 at an all time high or other things in the Nasdaq/Dow Jones. Is there open opportunities into investing at that level? yes. But everyone knows we are due for a correction soon. Tuition like dentistry has become a bubble. There are some low lying stocks that have potential like atvi, maybe roku.....just like some trade schools like electrician or plumbing that will give you great returns on investment....or you could go with the all time highs of some big name stocks...just like some big name professions. Whether it all comes tumbling down. Who knows. In the 80's alot of dental schools closed because of it. In the 01/08 alot of people lost everything. Who knows.

We are a at crossroads of where there are tons of dentists... high tuition... corporate taking over and lower reimbursement. Just knows if it all comes crashing down, student loans cannot be forgiven. Your choice of investment.

I think Amazon will eat Roku alive tho

 

[LGM]

A banker would tell you to not pursue dental school.

lol that't true but once you start building a good relationship with the bank, the bankers been pretty good financial advisors for me. I have JPM Chase accounts and a guy who works in my town's branch recommended me some free trade/ETF services even though he won't get his cut when I open such services' accounts. But I tried help him too by always useing his ref # whenever I open a new account.

 

[Medin2017]

Have you heard of investing into the Stock Market. Well, if you wanted to tomorrow you could invest into Amazon 1850 at an all time high or other things in the Nasdaq/Dow Jones. Is there open opportunities into investing at that level? yes. But everyone knows we are due for a correction soon. Tuition like dentistry has become a bubble. There are some low lying stocks that have potential like atvi, maybe roku.....just like some trade schools like electrician or plumbing that will give you great returns on investment....or you could go with the all time highs of some big name stocks...just like some big name professions. Whether it all comes tumbling down. Who knows. In the 80's alot of dental schools closed because of it. In the 01/08 alot of people lost everything. Who knows.

We are a at crossroads of where there are tons of dentists... high tuition... corporate taking over and lower reimbursement. Just knows if it all comes crashing down, student loans cannot be forgiven. Your choice of investment.

Knowing all this, if you were back in dental school as a DS1, what would you do differently in today's world? I have good grades, extracurricular activities, and solid research, but I no longer am 100% on any given specialty since I like the stuff we are doing in lab and learning in class. Would hate to go to a specialty just for higher income on average, but I also have heard stories that even going rural is no longer the solution (not to mention corporations screwing over some of the dentists that went as rural as rural can be).

Should I just shadow more specialties to ultimately decide? What can I learn to put myself ahead of the competition in general dentistry if I decide against specializing? Everyone has access to dentaltown and podcasts and such, would it just come down to speed and becoming more personable?

 

[321931]

Studentdent00: I dunno those are a lot of questions. Should redirect them to tanman or charlestweed who seem to have a better outlook on the field.

Knowing all this, if you were back in dental school as a DS1, what would you do differently in today's world? I have good grades, extracurricular activities, and solid research, but I no longer am 100% on any given specialty since I like the stuff we are doing in lab and learning in class. Would hate to go to a specialty just for higher income on average, but I also have heard stories that even going rural is no longer the solution (not to mention corporations screwing over some of the dentists that went as rural as rural can be).

Should I just shadow more specialties to ultimately decide? What can I learn to put myself ahead of the competition in general dentistry if I decide against specializing? Everyone has access to dentaltown and podcasts and such, would it just come down to speed and becoming more personable?

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend dental to anyone and I consider myself semi-successful. BUT if you are in it...you have to make the most of it. And by that, I would say that applying for Army repayment- work in the army and have everything forgiven, and or keep grades up to have the OPTION of specializing if you needed to.

Regarding getting ahead in GP...well thats honestly a crapshoot. Can't predict the future that far out and buying a practice takes alot of hard work and also...luck. I would say that if you had parents in the established field you are miles ahead of your classmates...but I don't think you do. Just go with the flow, and try to get that army scholarship/keep grades up for the "OPTION" of specializing.

 

[2TH MVR]

Lets all remember that specializing isn't the golden ticket that it once was. I believe we all agree that OMFS still has it pretty good since technology isn't trying to put that specialty out of business like Ortho. Yes ... there are fewer specialists, but with all this talk about specializing .... the specialties are getting saturated as well. Orthos on every block. Pedos everywhere. Fewer referrals since GPs are trying to do anything to keep revenue in house. Can't blame them. It's economics.

Smart pre-dents/dents.... plan to go military or have high stats to go in-state cheaper schools and plan on practicing in less popular, saturated areas. This will give you the best chance of success. Even if you have dentist parents .... this doesn't always end well. You still have to pay an enormous debt if you went to a private DS. Buying into a parent's practice can be a nightmare for both you and your parents. Many times the parents are not ready to retire. And when they are ... they believe the practice is worth more than you think. I've seen this play out many, many times.

For pre-dents/dents asking business, entrepreneurial questions about dentistry. That's fine. At least you're thinking about the reality of running a dental business. A word of caution. In the real world re: Corp dental chains .... you will be competing from a business perspective with individuals who are experts in business/marketing. This is what large Dental Corps do. They are business 1st ... dentistry 2nd. You went to DS to become a dentist, not a hedge fund manager.

Keep your DS debt low. Kind of common sense.

 

[321931]

Lets all remember that specializing isn't the golden ticket that it once was. I believe we all agree that OMFS still has it pretty good since technology isn't trying to put that specialty out of business like Ortho. Yes ... there are fewer specialists, but with all this talk about specializing .... the specialties are getting saturated as well. Orthos on every block. Pedos everywhere. Fewer referrals since GPs are trying to do anything to keep revenue in house. Can't blame them. It's economics.

Smart pre-dents/dents.... plan to go military or have high stats to go in-state cheaper schools and plan on practicing in less popular, saturated areas. This will give you the best chance of success. Even if you have dentist parents .... this doesn't always end well. You still have to pay an enormous debt if you went to a private DS. Buying into a parent's practice can be a nightmare for both you and your parents. Many times the parents are not ready to retire. And when they are ... they believe the practice is worth more than you think. I've seen this play out many, many times.

For pre-dents/dents asking business, entrepreneurial questions about dentistry. That's fine. At least you're thinking about the reality of running a dental business. A word of caution. In the real world re: Corp dental chains .... you will be competing from a business perspective with individuals who are experts in business/marketing. This is what large Dental Corps do. They are business 1st ... dentistry 2nd. You went to DS to become a dentist, not a hedge fund manager.

Keep your DS debt low. Kind of common sense.

Well this sums it up pretty well. The amount of time... debt... work invested for a opportunity to make it is quite a lot. Honestly I have patients in my practice that are gov workers and retire at 50 with pensions. Way less stressful jobs and much more straightforward lives. Everyone clambering about dentistry opportunity this and that honestly hasn’t even worked or owned a practice yet. I don’t even bother replying to that, because There’s no reasoning with that. Tweed and 2th mover has been in these shoes and understand a bit about the difficulties facing dentistry. Tweed and tanman a good outlook. I prefer the opposite. 2th mover seems neutral. It’s not easy.

In my 1-2 years of ownership I had 3 os move into my area. I have a choice of 6 omfs to refer to. 5 orthos... 6 endos... 3-4 pediatric... and well my schedule is slow today so I’m doing all specialty in house today. Oh and I just got an insurance paper stating that my reimbursement is down 15% across the board. Oh well just gotta keep trudging on.

 

[Shunwei]

Rainee’s post is very level-headed and certainly better than some of the others who seem to be cheerleading or simply deceiving. The field currently has a dark cloud over it and probably will get much worse as time goes on. But hey, no matter, all the predents want is to hear the good things, right? So carry on.

 

[Medin2017]

Studentdent00: I dunno those are a lot of questions. Should redirect them to tanman or charlestweed who seem to have a better outlook on the field.



Honestly, I wouldn't recommend dental to anyone and I consider myself semi-successful. BUT if you are in it...you have to make the most of it. And by that, I would say that applying for Army repayment- work in the army and have everything forgiven, and or keep grades up to have the OPTION of specializing if you needed to.

Regarding getting ahead in GP...well thats honestly a crapshoot. Can't predict the future that far out and buying a practice takes alot of hard work and also...luck. I would say that if you had parents in the established field you are miles ahead of your classmates...but I don't think you do. Just go with the flow, and try to get that army scholarship/keep grades up for the "OPTION" of specializing.

Well that's unfortunate to hear. Guess I'll continue what I'm doing and find something I really enjoy then since financial is no guarantee anywhere