FAILED STEP 2 CS TWICE...HELP!!!

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Nistelrooy

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Hey guys, i really need your advice concerning the dilemma i find myself. I am a 4th yr AMG who just recently matched into my top choice anesthesia program. I took step 2 CS my first time in ATL, i marginally failed the ICE portion with above average performance in the CIS and SEP portions. I worked hard and practiced everyday for 2 and half weeks. I took it again in philly, i passed the ICE and SEP but failed the CIS in the lower performance range. It really does not make any sense to me, how could my communication skills and the way i interact with patients change so drastically within a short period of time. I am really distraught and frustrated. I have no idea what to do. It is the end of April and i am at a real risk of losing my residency position. I have already sent in a score recheck and written to the NBME. PLS guys, i need some word of advice and encouragement. I am completely lost...

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I was in the same position. Took it in LA and failed CIS, then took it in Philly after the score change and failed both CIS and SEP. My school requires passing Step 2 CS to graduate and my residency requires a passing score to start working so I sucked it up and paid for the USMLE academy in Chicago. I got a passing score Wednesday and I graduate next week so I was cutting it close. I would say that if it is at all financially feasible sign up for the academy and then take the test within a week of finishing the academy. You can set up email alerts for when dates open and people drop last minute all the time. My biggest regret was not signing up for the academy after failing the first time, but I was just so in disbelief that I failed and thought that it must be a fluke. After taking the academy course I realized that the exam is extremely formulaic and not at all the like a normal patient encounter. Also, Philly is known as a terrible center and it fails the most people. Don't go there again. Does your residency require Step 2 CS to start working and does your school require it to graduate? If so can your school delay your graduation "date" in order for you to pass the exam? (Mine told me they would if I couldn't land a testing spot in early March like I did). I also know somebody whose residency allowed him to start a month late so that he could re-take CS and have a passing score in hand. Also, it was interesting talking to the people who staff the academy that over the past year or so they have seen a huge shift from having mostly FMG's to IMG's to having way more AMG's taking their course because so many people are failing.
 
I was in the same position. Took it in LA and failed CIS, then took it in Philly after the score change and failed both CIS and SEP. My school requires passing Step 2 CS to graduate and my residency requires a passing score to start working so I sucked it up and paid for the USMLE academy in Chicago. I got a passing score Wednesday and I graduate next week so I was cutting it close. I would say that if it is at all financially feasible sign up for the academy and then take the test within a week of finishing the academy. You can set up email alerts for when dates open and people drop last minute all the time. My biggest regret was not signing up for the academy after failing the first time, but I was just so in disbelief that I failed and thought that it must be a fluke. After taking the academy course I realized that the exam is extremely formulaic and not at all the like a normal patient encounter. Also, Philly is known as a terrible center and it fails the most people. Don't go there again. Does your residency require Step 2 CS to start working and does your school require it to graduate? If so can your school delay your graduation "date" in order for you to pass the exam? (Mine told me they would if I couldn't land a testing spot in early March like I did). I also know somebody whose residency allowed him to start a month late so that he could re-take CS and have a passing score in hand. Also, it was interesting talking to the people who staff the academy that over the past year or so they have seen a huge shift from having mostly FMG's to IMG's to having way more AMG's taking their course because so many people are failing.
yes both my school and program require it, its a really tricky situation.
 
yes both my school and program require it, its a really tricky situation.
I would petition your school to delay graduation and secure a test date ASAP. MY school was able to fast track approving my permit application. Then sign up for the academy once you secure a test date. Assuming you start work July 1st and your school can delay graduation until June 30th, you would have to re-take the test by May 19th for the June 20th score release, which is cutting it close. I know the thought of possibly losing your residency spot is also terrifying though. Either way, take some time to grieve. I almost passed out when I found out I failed a second time. But pick yourself back up and get this solved ASAP. I realised there were nuances to the test that I just was not going to understand on my own so I paid for the success academy and passed with flying colors. Your school admin may advise you as to the best course of action, but I personally would try to finagle a test date by the 19th so I don't have to inform my residency program, but it might be better for them to not have a resident for a month, than not have a resident for a whole year.
 
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I would petition your school to delay graduation and secure a test date ASAP. MY school was able to fast track approving my permit application. Then sign up for the academy once you secure a test date. Assuming you start work July 1st and your school can delay graduation until June 30th, you would have to re-take the test by May 19th for the June 20th score release, which is cutting it close. I know the thought of possibly losing your residency spot is also terrifying though. Either way, take some time to grieve. I almost passed out when I found out I failed a second time. But pick yourself back up and get this solved ASAP. I realised there were nuances to the test that I just was not going to understand on my own so I paid for the success academy and passed with flying colors. Your school admin may advise you as to the best course of action, but I personally would try to finagle a test date by the 19th so I don't have to inform my residency program, but it might be better for them to not have a resident for a month, than not have a resident for a whole year.
Thank you very much, just got a test date for may 14th. I told my program dir about the situation and she was actually quite supportive. success academy is fully booked at the moment.
 
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Good on you for securing another date so quickly. I know the academy has a waitlist and I think Kaplan offers its own course. Otherwise you should contact your school for further resources to assess your performance during the exam. Best of luck to you!
 
Good on you for securing another date so quickly. I know the academy has a waitlist and I think Kaplan offers its own course. Otherwise you should contact your school for further resources to assess your performance during the exam. Best of luck to you!
Thank you very much! Where did you take your exam?
 
I took mine it Atlanta, and I know this is subjective but I felt the cases were way more chill and straight forward than the other 2 sites I tested at, and not just because I had taken the success academy. I actually hard good things about Chicago as well but it seems to be the most popular site and it is very difficult to get a date there without paying a service. I don't know much about the Houston site.
 
I took mine it Atlanta, and I know this is subjective but I felt the cases were way more chill and straight forward than the other 2 sites I tested at, and not just because I had taken the success academy. I actually hard good things about Chicago as well but it seems to be the most popular site and it is very difficult to get a date there without paying a service. I don't know much about the Houston site.
ok
 
Hey guys, i really need your advice concerning the dilemma i find myself. I am a 4th yr AMG who just recently matched into my top choice anesthesia program. I took step 2 CS my first time in ATL, i marginally failed the ICE portion with above average performance in the CIS and SEP portions. I worked hard and practiced everyday for 2 and half weeks. I took it again in philly, i passed the ICE and SEP but failed the CIS in the lower performance range. It really does not make any sense to me, how could my communication skills and the way i interact with patients change so drastically within a short period of time. I am really distraught and frustrated. I have no idea what to do. It is the end of April and i am at a real risk of losing my residency position. I have already sent in a score recheck and written to the NBME. PLS guys, i need some word of advice and encouragement. I am completely lost...
Did you take a mock exam?
 
OP, my heart truly goes out to you as this is one of the most terrifying things to happen to a 4th year AMG. I’m so glad your PD is supportive and definitely sign up for classes and study on top of that. The key is having unlimited access to SPs. They dont even have to know medicine that well. They just have to be able to understand the situation to give the illness script and you can check your week. If you have that, you’re golden
 
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OP, my heart truly goes out to you as this is one of the most terrifying things to happen to a 4th year AMG. I’m so glad your PD is supportive and definitely sign up for classes and study on top of that. The key is having unlimited access to SPs. They dont even have to know medicine that well. They just have to be able to understand the situation to give the illness script and you can check your week. If you have that, you’re golden
thank you! yea this is really depressing.
 
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You passed your school's mock exam 2nd time, but failed the exam? I thought mock exams are reliable? I'm confused now.
I passed both my school's OSCE with flying colors. No red flags at all. It didn't keep me from failing twice. The problem is that the USMLE is not transparent about how the exams are graded so school's don't really know either. I don't know how the USMLE Academy gets their information, but if my school graded us and trained us based on the materials they use, I probably would have passed the first time. Also, I promise i'm not a shill for the academy, I just am frustrated that it took me paying the test twice and paying for the academy to figure out how this damn exam is graded.
 
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Thank you very much, just got a test date for may 14th. I told my program dir about the situation and she was actually quite supportive. success academy is fully booked at the moment.

Hey what are you planning to differently for CS this time around?? I also failed CIS part of it, and have no idea where I might've gone wrong.
 
Hey what are you planning to differently for CS this time around?? I also failed CIS part of it, and have no idea where I might've gone wrong.
i am trying to see if i can take a prep course, i already watched some of the success academy videos on youtube. Im trying to practice as much as I can to nailed down those CIS points.
 
I passed both my school's OSCE with flying colors. No red flags at all. It didn't keep me from failing twice. The problem is that the USMLE is not transparent about how the exams are graded so school's don't really know either. I don't know how the USMLE Academy gets their information, but if my school graded us and trained us based on the materials they use, I probably would have passed the first time. Also, I promise i'm not a shill for the academy, I just am frustrated that it took me paying the test twice and paying for the academy to figure out how this damn exam is graded.

Any tips on what you did differently after taking the success academy course?
 
Any tips on what you did differently after taking the success academy course?
The test is super formulaic. Stick to the formula. Use whatever mnemonics work for you for HPI and social history but ask every thing every time. This is important to do each time because a lot of counseling points come up in the social history. There are also special mnemonics for system specific complaints such as gyn, GI, GU, etc. Learn and memorize them so you can ask them on top of your regular ROS. I also took a minute outside the door before every room to write down the menominics for each case that I would use and it helped gather your thoughts in addition to a few differentials based on the face sheet. I also always wrote down abnormal vitals on that sheet. ALWAYS MENTION ABNORMAL VITALS. Also for a general ROS what helped me was to just go from head to toe after asking about systemic things such as fever, weight loss, chills, etc. Always summarize and give a differential with specific plans for workup. Give a chance to ask questions. Counsel as soon as you hear about something because otherwise you might run out of time or forget to at the end.
 
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The test is super formulaic. Stick to the formula. Use whatever mnemonics work for you for HPI and social history but ask every thing every time. This is important to do each time because a lot of counseling points come up in the social history. There are also special mnemonics for system specific complaints such as gyn, GI, GU, etc. Learn and memorize them so you can ask them on top of your regular ROS. I also took a minute outside the door before every room to write down the menominics for each case that I would use and it helped gather your thoughts in addition to a few differentials based on the face sheet. I also always wrote down abnormal vitals on that sheet. ALWAYS MENTION ABNORMAL VITALS. Also for a general ROS what helped me was to just go from head to toe after asking about systemic things such as fever, weight loss, chills, etc. Always summarize and give a differential with specific plans for workup. Give a chance to ask questions. Counsel as soon as you hear about something because otherwise you might run out of time or forget to at the end.

thank you!
 
Any tips on what you did differently after taking the success academy course?

I memorized all of these (Best USMLE Step 2 CS Mnemonics - Medical Institution) for the most common signs/symptoms someone would present with. I went through all of the cases in First Aid and UWorld, these mnemonics + the PAMHUGSFOSS covered 95% of those 80 cases plus every single one of my cases on the real exam.

For CIS, I really recommend making small talk with patients on appropriate topics (no politics/religion/etc). I think this really helped in making my CIS score a * to the right. For example

1) Person sold furniture for a living (not related to case at all); I told him I might need to talk to him about buying a new couch afterwards because my puppy destroyed the one I have right now (I don't have a puppy)
2) Person said they worked at a famous retail store (not related to case); I said something about you must have a lot of friends because of that discount
3) Person said her husband worked as a mechanic (not related to case); I said doing laundry must be a pain with all of that grease
4) Person said he should have listened to his wife more often; I said I've yet to meet a husband that listens to their wife enough
5) Person said they celebrated a milestone anniversary; I said congratulations, what did you do to celebrate?
6) Person got promoted for some club; I said congratulations for sticking with it to make it to that level

IMO if I could sum up the difference between ICE and CIS; I would say you need to approach every case like you're in the ER (get the history/physical/labs/note/diagnosis) for the ICE points. You need to approach every case like your a FM doc and take a genuine interest in them as a person and their longterm health (counseling) for the CIS points.

Best of luck!
 
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I was in the same position. Took it in LA and failed CIS, then took it in Philly after the score change and failed both CIS and SEP. My school requires passing Step 2 CS to graduate and my residency requires a passing score to start working so I sucked it up and paid for the USMLE academy in Chicago.

My heart goes out to you and the OP. This test makes absolutely no sense.
 
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Just to add to my previous post, I think making small talk can help with the ICE portion too. The two scenarios I mentioned above (#3 and 4) laughed and stopped acting as they were supposed to and just basically recited their script. One of the patients reminded me to do a physical exam and volunteered information I didn't ask for that was relevant to the case. The other patient said don't worry about it when I initially started my physical and forgot to use sanitizer. I apologized again as I left and he made sure to mention that I would be fine. Developing rapport in a short time on an exam can be tricky, but it can help with CIS and ICE
 
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Just to add to my previous post, I think making small talk can help with the ICE portion too. The two scenarios I mentioned above (#3 and 4) laughed and stopped acting as they were supposed to and just basically recited their script. One of the patients reminded me to do a physical exam and volunteered information I didn't ask for that was relevant to the case. The other patient said don't worry about it when I initially started my physical and forgot to use sanitizer. I apologized again as I left and he made sure to mention that I would be fine. Developing rapport in a short time on an exam can be tricky, but it can help with CIS and ICE
thank you
 
The test is super formulaic. Stick to the formula. Use whatever mnemonics work for you for HPI and social history but ask every thing every time. This is important to do each time because a lot of counseling points come up in the social history. There are also special mnemonics for system specific complaints such as gyn, GI, GU, etc. Learn and memorize them so you can ask them on top of your regular ROS. I also took a minute outside the door before every room to write down the menominics for each case that I would use and it helped gather your thoughts in addition to a few differentials based on the face sheet. I also always wrote down abnormal vitals on that sheet. ALWAYS MENTION ABNORMAL VITALS. Also for a general ROS what helped me was to just go from head to toe after asking about systemic things such as fever, weight loss, chills, etc. Always summarize and give a differential with specific plans for workup. Give a chance to ask questions. Counsel as soon as you hear about something because otherwise you might run out of time or forget to at the end.

Great points to note! Thank you!!

Just need clarification regarding ROS. Let's say for Chest pain, after asking Pain mnemonic,
I rule out other organs like esophagus by asking do you have difficulty swallowing? lungs-do you have cough or breathing difficulty? heart- sweating? increased heart rate? sob?- musculoskeletal - pain with movement?
so after all of this you want me to ask questions from head to toe?
and then fever+chills, weight+appetite changes, numbness+weakness, N/V, travel, sleep changes? then go to Allergies, meds, PMH/PSH, FH?
 
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Great points to note! Thank you!!

Just need clarification regarding ROS. Let's say for Chest pain, after asking Pain mnemonic,
I rule out other organs like esophagus by asking do you have difficulty swallowing? lungs-do you have cough or breathing difficulty? heart- sweating? increased heart rate? sob?- musculoskeletal - pain with movement?
so after all of this you want me to ask questions from head to toe?
and then fever+chills, weight+appetite changes, numbness+weakness, N/V, travel, sleep changes? then go to Allergies, meds, PMH/PSH, FH?
Yes, basically. But trust me you get really fast at doing it. I would say I'm going to list a bunch of symptoms and say yes if you have them. That way they wouldn't have to answer every single one. But generally allow 1 minute outside the door to gather your thoughts, 7 min for interview, 5 for physical exam, and 2 minutes to wrap up/explain plan and ddx/allow for questions
 
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The test is super formulaic. Stick to the formula. Use whatever mnemonics work for you for HPI and social history but ask every thing every time. This is important to do each time because a lot of counseling points come up in the social history. There are also special mnemonics for system specific complaints such as gyn, GI, GU, etc. Learn and memorize them so you can ask them on top of your regular ROS. I also took a minute outside the door before every room to write down the menominics for each case that I would use and it helped gather your thoughts in addition to a few differentials based on the face sheet. I also always wrote down abnormal vitals on that sheet. ALWAYS MENTION ABNORMAL VITALS. Also for a general ROS what helped me was to just go from head to toe after asking about systemic things such as fever, weight loss, chills, etc. Always summarize and give a differential with specific plans for workup. Give a chance to ask questions. Counsel as soon as you hear about something because otherwise you might run out of time or forget to at the end.

So I took the exam again in May(ATL) after taking the kaplan course. I thought this time was better than the first 2 times and the cases were straight forward IMO. I missed a couple of PE steps and forgot to include some things in my PN, but in all I finished all my notes. As the release date draws near, i've being freaking out and having nightmares about failing this for the 3rd time. I sincerely apologize for bothering you but given that you were in the same position, im just reaching out for some comfort and word of encouragement.
 
So I took the exam again in May(ATL) after taking the kaplan course. I thought this time was better than the first 2 times and the cases were straight forward IMO. I missed a couple of PE steps and forgot to include some things in my PN, but in all I finished all my notes. As the release date draws near, i've being freaking out and having nightmares about failing this for the 3rd time. I sincerely apologize for bothering you but given that you were in the same position, im just reaching out for some comfort and word of encouragement.
Honestly, the best advice that I can give is to just try to distract yourself. That being said, I didn't sleep for about a week before the results came out and especially not the night before. As I said earlier, I definitely felt that Atlanta was an easier and more straight forward test site than Philly or LA. Best of luck! I'm rooting for you!
 
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Honestly, the best advice that I can give is to just try to distract yourself. That being said, I didn't sleep for about a week before the results came out and especially not the night before. As I said earlier, I definitely felt that Atlanta was an easier and more straight forward test site than Philly or LA. Best of luck! I'm rooting for you!

Thank you very much for your prompt response! This is really rough...
 
Thank you very much for your prompt response! This is really rough...

Just wanted to say hang in there man. I'm about to write cs myself and this beast is so random and subjective I feel you even though I'm not in the gawdawful waiting for scores stage yet
 
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How much counseling are we expected to do? I realized that I only told them what I thought the diagnosis was, what my plan was, if they agreed to the plan, and asked what questions they had and answered those...
 
How much counseling are we expected to do? I realized that I only told them what I thought the diagnosis was, what my plan was, if they agreed to the plan, and asked what questions they had and answered those...

I think counselling is what you said plus if a pt tells you they smoke etc and you counsel them on the dangers of smoking and ask if they want to quit ect. I don't think you can do alot beyond that or it would turn into a therapy session.
 
I missed so many counseling opportunities... illegal drug use, not exercising... I remember doing a "great job" sort of thing for healthy behaviors but I don't know if it was enough. The post CS freak out session is real
 
I missed so many counseling opportunities... illegal drug use, not exercising... I remember doing a "great job" sort of thing for healthy behaviors but I don't know if it was enough. The post CS freak out session is real

I can imagine. I'm writing it soon and it seems like everyone makes a ton of little mistakes but no one knows how many little mistakes translates to a fail. Especially not looking forward to studying and writing ck while I wait/freak out about cs.
 
I think counselling is what you said plus if a pt tells you they smoke etc and you counsel them on the dangers of smoking and ask if they want to quit ect. I don't think you can do alot beyond that or it would turn into a therapy session.

I was told that you should be doing some counseling for every face to face encounter and that you should address it as soon as it happens so that you don’t forget or run out of time at the end.
 
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I was told that you should be doing some counseling for every face to face encounter and that you should address it as soon as it happens so that you don’t forget or run out of time at the end.

I was told that too. I think it still counts as counselling points as long as at some point you address it.
 
I definitely wish I had counseled better. I just got carried away with the HPI since too often I kept finding pretty significant history. Hopefully, the small amount of counseling meets the cut though...ugh!
 
It's so hard to do a stellar job in every area in 15 min or less. You can't be thorough in one area without sacrificing another. So then no encounter goes perfectly and you get to wonder for months if you did enough to pass
 
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Hey guys, i really need your advice concerning the dilemma i find myself. I am a 4th yr AMG who just recently matched into my top choice anesthesia program. I took step 2 CS my first time in ATL, i marginally failed the ICE portion with above average performance in the CIS and SEP portions. I worked hard and practiced everyday for 2 and half weeks. I took it again in philly, i passed the ICE and SEP but failed the CIS in the lower performance range. It really does not make any sense to me, how could my communication skills and the way i interact with patients change so drastically within a short period of time. I am really distraught and frustrated. I have no idea what to do. It is the end of April and i am at a real risk of losing my residency position. I have already sent in a score recheck and written to the NBME. PLS guys, i need some word of advice and encouragement. I am completely lost...

Did you pass?!?! We’re pulling for you!
 
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I was in the exact same position as OP. Failed CIS first time, barely. Failed ICE second time... significantly. Got passing score today and starting residency orientation tomorrow. What a bs test. I don't really know what I did wrong the first time, but I definitely studied and practiced more. Thinking about asking NBME for my money back.
 
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3rd time was the charm guys....I PASSED, starting residency in july. Sorry for the late reply, on a road trip to my residency location. I want to thank you guys for your unwavering support and encouragement. This nightmare is finally over.
 
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The test is super formulaic. Stick to the formula. Use whatever mnemonics work for you for HPI and social history but ask every thing every time. This is important to do each time because a lot of counseling points come up in the social history. There are also special mnemonics for system specific complaints such as gyn, GI, GU, etc. Learn and memorize them so you can ask them on top of your regular ROS. I also took a minute outside the door before every room to write down the menominics for each case that I would use and it helped gather your thoughts in addition to a few differentials based on the face sheet. I also always wrote down abnormal vitals on that sheet. ALWAYS MENTION ABNORMAL VITALS. Also for a general ROS what helped me was to just go from head to toe after asking about systemic things such as fever, weight loss, chills, etc. Always summarize and give a differential with specific plans for workup. Give a chance to ask questions. Counsel as soon as you hear about something because otherwise you might run out of time or forget to at the end.


Hey! I recently took my CS in philly, and am super worried about CIS. I didn't counsel patients (maybe only 1 or 2 on smoking, briefly, but that's it). Based on your experience do you think this is enough to fail? Did the Academy mention counseling being weighted more heavily?

thanks!
 
Hey! I recently took my CS in philly, and am super worried about CIS. I didn't counsel patients (maybe only 1 or 2 on smoking, briefly, but that's it). Based on your experience do you think this is enough to fail? Did the Academy mention counseling being weighted more heavily?

thanks!
They more emphasized that they are easy points and that there is something to counsel on in every single face to face case (not as much phone). I don't know if not counseling is enough to fail though. Plenty of people on here mentioning forgetting to counsel and still passing.
 
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Hey I took CS yesterday and am concerned about possibly failing as I didnt counsel very much and had an issue with one of my notes. My question is can you match without passing step 2 CS? I saw OP did match into anesthesia and was able to make it all work. I'm just scared because wont get scores back until late January or early February so wont have passing score possibly until after match. Thanks for any advice or input.
 
CIS needs a careful and sequential flow of mnemonics of each symptom. Good summaries and empathetic notes as you speak through. Addressing every concern raised from patient's perspective not your super knowledge!!!
 
Hey guys, i really need your advice concerning the dilemma i find myself. I am a 4th yr AMG who just recently matched into my top choice anesthesia program. I took step 2 CS my first time in ATL, i marginally failed the ICE portion with above average performance in the CIS and SEP portions. I worked hard and practiced everyday for 2 and half weeks. I took it again in philly, i passed the ICE and SEP but failed the CIS in the lower performance range. It really does not make any sense to me, how could my communication skills and the way i interact with patients change so drastically within a short period of time. I am really distraught and frustrated. I have no idea what to do. It is the end of April and i am at a real risk of losing my residency position. I have already sent in a score recheck and written to the NBME. PLS guys, i need some word of advice and encouragement. I am completely lost...
I just found out i failed for the second time, did you have a positive outcome with the recheck, how do i get the contact to email NBME
 
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I just found out i failed for the second time, did you have a positive outcome with the recheck, how do i get the contact to email NBME
So sorry to hear that! Don't waste your money, It wouldnt come to anything and I can almost guarantee that. I would take a prep course at this point and register for the test again if you're applying now for residency. Lemme know if you have anymore questions.
 
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