Failed APPE Pharmacy Rotation

[WVUPharm2007]

I failed a rotation. As soon as you graduate, nobody cares. I still get paid a lot of money to stand in an air conditioned room and count by 5s. I think back on the bevy of troubles I had in school and just chuckle at it. Primarily because of how ridiculous academia itself is...but also because of how little my performance in school actually affects me in the real world. In hindsight, I wouldn't have even gotten worked up over it.

It will all be fine. Shake it off, move on to the next torture. Just a handful of months more of this nonsense and it's over.

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[Tommy1234]

This is first time I heard someone failed retail rotation. it supposed to be much easier than hospital/clinical rotation.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

You failed a retail rotation?

Yes. 1st one.

 

[Son_Goku]

Yes. 1st one.

Do you go to a private school?

You should count your blessings. Most schools would delay your graduation for failing a rotation.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Do you go to a private school?

You should count your blessings. Most schools would delay your graduation for failing a rotation.

I do yes. And most schools will make it up on off block or delay graduation and then make it up.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

This is first time I heard someone failed retail rotation. it supposed to be much easier than hospital/clinical rotation.

I feel that it all depends what preceptor you have. My preceptor for my block now is easy going and 100 times easier than my failed one. Same rotation type and everything. And I am learning more and doing more pharmacist tasks. And I am finally learning some of the chapter in Rxprep, which is what we need for Naplex prep.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

I failed a rotation. As soon as you graduate, nobody cares. I still get paid a lot of money to stand in an air conditioned room and count by 5s. I think back on the bevy of troubles I had in school and just chuckle at it. Primarily because of how ridiculous academia itself is...but also because of how little my performance in school actually affects me in the real world. In hindsight, I wouldn't have even gotten worked up over it.

It will all be fine. Shake it off, move on to the next torture. Just a handful of months more of this nonsense and it's over.

What was your reason for failing your rotation?

 

[owlegrad]

Actually anecdotally I have heard more stories of students failing retail rotations than failing other types. Probably has something to do with the mindset or attitude than knowledge or aptitude I would bet.

I know one person who failed two retail rotations (the first one and the make-up) and the school required him to get a mental check up before reattempting it. In that case the person was long on excuses and short on accountability/responsibility. I couldn't understand it personally, even if everything he said was true, he was still the one who graduated a year late. I can't really understand that mindset. Just do whatever you need to do to pass and graduate.

 

[owlegrad]

In hindsight, I wouldn't have even gotten worked up over it.

It will all be fine. Shake it off, move on to the next torture. Just a handful of months more of this nonsense and it's over.

Good advice. I think this is the correct mindset, if you aren't getting anything from your rotations just think of them as obstacles to overcome. Don't let anything delay graduation.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Actually anecdotally I have heard more stories of students failing retail rotations than failing other types. Probably has something to do with the mindset or attitude than knowledge or aptitude I would bet.

I know one person who failed two retail rotations (the first one and the make-up) and the school required him to get a mental check up before reattempting it. In that case the person was long on excuses and short on accountability/responsibility. I couldn't understand it personally, even if everything he said was true, he was still the one who graduated a year late. I can't really understand that mindset. Just do whatever you need to do to pass and graduate.

It all comes down to like you said, the person's mindset. Students and these pharmacists that get fired think it's never anything they did. It's always someone else.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

What was your reason for failing your rotation?

It was worse than failing retail -- I managed to fail a LTC pharmacy rotation (a pharmacy that was bought out by Omnicare.) The funny thing is that I legitimately don't even remember exactly what it was they failed me for. But it happened after I complained about how all I was doing was tech work for 10 hours a day.

Somehow, I always got better marks for the internal medicine-type of rotations than the "fluff" rotations. Actually, I know how I did. I suck at masking my feelings and I hate having my time wasted. My apathy for pointless rotations likely shined through very strongly.

 

[KARM12]

It all comes down to like you said, the person's mindset. Students and these pharmacists that get fired think it's never anything they did. It's always someone else.

Sometimes it is a combo of both. Some preceptors are jerks and some students are bad. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Glad you are able to make up the rotation and doing well on it, OP.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Sometimes it is a combo of both. Some preceptors are jerks and some students are bad. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Glad you are able to make up the rotation and doing well on it, OP.

Oh I definitely think it's not necessarily always that person's fault. However, if someone tells you something you aren't doing correctly, just listen.

 

[wagrxm2000]

It was worse than failing retail -- I managed to fail a LTC pharmacy rotation (a pharmacy that was bought out by Omnicare.) The funny thing is that I legitimately don't even remember exactly what it was they failed me for. But it happened after I complained about how all I was doing was tech work for 10 hours a day.

Somehow, I always got better marks for the internal medicine-type of rotations than the "fluff" rotations. Actually, I know how I did. I suck at masking my feelings and I hate having my time wasted. My apathy for pointless rotations likely shined through very strongly.

I think there's absolutely no reason an intern can't use their experience where they work to fulfill a rotation. Long time retail interns shouldn't be doing a retail rotation

 

[owlegrad]

It was worse than failing retail -- I managed to fail a LTC pharmacy rotation (a pharmacy that was bought out by Omnicare.) The funny thing is that I legitimately don't even remember exactly what it was they failed me for. But it happened after I complained about how all I was doing was tech work for 10 hours a day.

Somehow, I always got better marks for the internal medicine-type of rotations than the "fluff" rotations. Actually, I know how I did. I suck at masking my feelings and I hate having my time wasted. My apathy for pointless rotations likely shined through very strongly.

Wait, you're saying I can make my interns do tech work for 10 hours a day and fail them if they complain?

Hmmm...

 

[zelman]

Thepharmstudent111, I hate to break it to you, but your English isn’t as good as you think it is. Most of your posts read like you google translated them and then read the result into a speech-to-text program. You need to accept that, work on it, and play to your strengths in the meantime. Good luck!

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Thepharmstudent111, I hate to break it to you, but your English isn’t as good as you think it is. Most of your posts read like you google translated them and then read the result into a speech-to-text program. You need to accept that, work on it, and play to your strengths in the meantime. Good luck!

Ahhhh, that's it!

I was scratching my head

 

[PharmtoCS]

There's usually more to the story if the school actually fails the student based on a preceptor's evaluation. Failing a student is a huge headache for the preceptor, as they have to gather tons of documentation, i.e. student being dangerously incompetent and/or extremely unprofessional. Even then, schools might still pass the student if there is not enough evidence.

 

[zelman]

Ahhhh, that's it!

I was scratching my head

Yeah. It’s not terrible, but it’s certainly off. I’d say xenophobia might play a part.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Doubt it's xenophobia probably just a concern the customers aren't being counseled properly in a way they understand.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

lol not xenophobia. I've always had trouble with vocabulary. But overtime, this has improved quite a bit.

 

[Chriskahn]

Actually, you might get a chance to retaliate when you get older. I certainly got even with one of the three preceptors who made my life hell when I was in rotations. I apparently screwed over another one of the three, but that was in a capacity where I just didn't act on something.

The people who say that revenge is an empty feeling have never done it right, it's phenomenal on a primal level and I still use it as my happy memory when the headaches of power get to me.

The universe doesn't like me. If I retaliate, it will somehow come back and bite me in the ass.

During 2nd year, I had to do 4 hours of real MTMs for class. I showed up and the manager had no idea why I was there, even though it was scheduled ahead of time. She didn't even introduce herself or anything. I told her I was there to do MTMs and she instantly told my to hop on the computer and start doing MTMs on Mirixa (I think), a system I have never used before. It was extremely busy and she was yelling at her techs the entire time. She kept getting annoyed that I kept asking her questions.

I emailed my prof, sharing my frustrations because I basically spent 4 hours trying to learn the system on my own versus actually doing any real MTMs. The prof rescheduled me to re-do the 4 hours so that I can get the proper MTM experience.

Well when I went back, turns out my stupid prof forwarded my email to the manager and the manager was pissed that I told my prof what happened. She grilled TF out of me the next 4 hours, quizzing me on stuff I haven't even learned yet just to make me look incompetent. She told me I was far from ready from ever working in a pharmacy (no ****, it was 1st semester of my 2nd year)

A couple months later, I ran into her at the park and she gave me the biggest glare.

A year later, during my final presentation as a 3rd year student, she was one of the people that graded my presentation. She grilled me with crazy unnecessary questions afterwards, trying to stump me. I ended up getting an 88% on it. Out of the 5 people who graded me, 1 gave me a bad score. I wonder who it was?

APPE rotations at my school is randomized using a program. One of my rotations ended up placing me with that manager as my preceptor. I NOPED outta that quick and requested a transfer.

During APPE, another preceptor I had is best friends with that manager (of course) and I was so scared that I was going to fail because of that.

TLDR: pharmacy is a small world. Too small to burn bridges and make enemies

 

[lord999]

The universe doesn't like me. If I retaliate, it will somehow come back and bite me in the ass.

During 2nd year, I had to do 4 hours of real MTMs for class. I showed up and the manager had no idea why I was there, even though it was scheduled ahead of time. She didn't even introduce herself or anything. I told her I was there to do MTMs and she instantly told my to hop on the computer and start doing MTMs on Mirixa (I think), a system I have never used before. It was extremely busy and she was yelling at her techs the entire time. She kept getting annoyed that I kept asking her questions.

I emailed my prof, sharing my frustrations because I basically spent 4 hours trying to learn the system on my own versus actually doing any real MTMs. The prof rescheduled me to re-do the 4 hours so that I can get the proper MTM experience.

Well when I went back, turns out my stupid prof forwarded my email to the manager and the manager was pissed that I told my prof what happened. She grilled TF out of me the next 4 hours, quizzing me on stuff I haven't even learned yet just to make me look incompetent. She told me I was far from ready from ever working in a pharmacy (no ****, it was 1st semester of my 2nd year)

A couple months later, I ran into her at the park and she gave me the biggest glare.

A year later, during my final presentation as a 3rd year student, she was one of the people that graded my presentation. She grilled me with crazy unnecessary questions afterwards, trying to stump me. I ended up getting an 88% on it. Out of the 5 people who graded me, 1 gave me a bad score. I wonder who it was?

APPE rotations at my school is randomized using a program. One of my rotations ended up placing me with that manager as my preceptor. I NOPED outta that quick and requested a transfer.

During APPE, another preceptor I had is best friends with that manager (of course) and I was so scared that I was going to fail because of that.

TLDR: pharmacy is a small world. Too small to burn bridges and make enemies

You didn't let your revenge age long enough, so the taste is sour. You need about 6-8 years in most cases, though the most delicious versions (one of my colleagues got the Phoenix VA pharmacy director not only fired, but had his retirement revoked and is standing federal trial for official misconduct) took about 21 years to mature. The small world works both ways.

Although, I have been in that position too with someone that I thought was unstoppable, that's why it was even more satisfying to be the person responsible end his career and his livelihood. Then again, if it hadn't been for him, I would have probably been a Walgreens pharmacist for the rest of my career and not thought about higher education.

I'm not saying that I am a better person for knowing those lessons, but it did change my attitude that a successful relationship must also have compatible neuroses as well as strengths.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Out of six rotations, the chance of you getting at least one a-hole preceptor is pretty good. But ask yourself this: why did he pass other students and not you? If he is such an unreasonable preceptor, why does your school keep on sending students to his site?

My first preceptor is a bitter pharmacist. He turned in his resignation letter just prior to my rotation. He didn’t want to do anything. He was barely there because he wanted to use up all of his PTO/sick days so he handed me his last project. He even warned me that if I didn’t do a good job, it would reflect poorly on my grade (aka I am going to fail you). I hated his attitude and his lack of guidance. But what I learned from this project changed the direction of my life. I am sure that wasn’t my preceptor intention. Don’t get me wrong...I still think he is an a-hole but I got this unique opportunity because of him.

The point is...you are going to go thru a lot of crap in your life. How you respond to them will shape you forever. Don’t let bumps in the road become a road block. Reflect, learn from your pain and anger and become a stronger person.




Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Hey I really enjoyed reading your post. I agree with you. When I see mean people in my life i think "God put that person there to test me and to challenge me" and I try to re frame it as a challenge instead of adversity.

 

[Sparda29]

I failed my public health rotation (no other school has these kind of rotations, just Touro). Reasons I failed were because:
#1) I refused to go with the preceptor and other site employees in the organization van to the place we were doing public outreach, I told them I prefer to follow them in my car. Preferred going straight home from the public outreach site instead of returning to the home base to grab my car. Apparently this shows a lack of solidarity with the organization.

#2) I refused to yell "free condoms, free STD tests, free HIV tests, other random slogans about HIV and sexual health" in public.

 

[lord999]

I failed my public health rotation (no other school has these kind of rotations, just Touro). Reasons I failed were because:
#1) I refused to go with the preceptor and other site employees in the organization van to the place we were doing public outreach, I told them I prefer to follow them in my car. Preferred going straight home from the public outreach site instead of returning to the home base to grab my car. Apparently this shows a lack of solidarity with the organization.

#2) I refused to yell "free condoms, free STD tests, free HIV tests, other random slogans about HIV and sexual health" in public.

On 2, lul, what?! I realize this is NYC, but really, advertising at the street-level so primitive that hawking is a thing there?

Ah *#(, I probably know your preceptor from that rotation, did she go to Western? If so, I'm very, very sorry for you as she was a capital C when she was a fellow.

 

[Sparda29]

On 2, lul, what?! I realize this is NYC, but really, advertising at the street-level so primitive that hawking is a thing there?

Ah *#(, I probably know your preceptor from that rotation, did she go to Western? If so, I'm very, very sorry for you as she was a capital C when she was a fellow.

I don't remember her name it might have started with an F. The place was called Harlem United. She used to give me trouble about leaving for 20 minutes to move my car for alternate side parking (even my preceptors at the hospitals and retail pharmacies would let me do that, hell some of them had me move their cars for them also).

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Hello,

So my make-up block ended up being a good and solid grade, which will replace my failing grade from the previous block. So yes, I am happy to say that it was the preceptor's fault for being mean and rotten and failing to work with me during the five weeks. This is what I realized. I am glad I have moved on from that. I so far have 5 more blocks to go til I graduate, then pass the board exams, and then earn my pharmD.

 

[sozetone]

You guys wanna hear a funny story? It was my final rotation, i aced all 8 so far ( you gotta be strange not to right?) Nobody wanted this rotation at a veterinary compounding pharmacy in boca raton florida ok? So my preceptor retires and i get dropped from my last rotation last minute. All i can do is pick up the rotation at this vet compounding pharmacy. I heard the guy was mean and made the chicks cry a lot. At the time I was tired and ready to graduate. He kept pestering me about stuff I couldn't do or know ...etc. Like a boss performance you for stuff you cant control or have nothing to do with. After only 3 days! was 2011, ill never forget. He cursed at me regarding a dye used in compounding that i did not know about yet. I had not had time to even research it. (He openly told me he did not like Nova southeastern students as well). I told him to go F**k himself and walked out. no joke after 3 days. And that is NOT my style to lose my cool like that. Turns out the school had problems with him for years. long history of this. They gave me another one, i aced it again and was done. Sometimes you gotta stand up to people and pick your battles. It was a gamble, but worse case i had to repeat a rotation (which i did) no problem. FYI (do not do this in the "REAL WORLD") lol. your boss and work record will haunt you forever.

 

[sozetone]

Hello,

So my make-up block ended up being a good and solid grade, which will replace my failing grade from the previous block. So yes, I am happy to say that it was the preceptor's fault for being mean and rotten and failing to work with me during the five weeks. This is what I realized. I am glad I have moved on from that. I so far have 5 more blocks to go til I graduate, then pass the board exams, and then earn my pharmD.

Awesome! there is a 32 hour shift available with CVS in nebraska for 45$/hour. Yay... you win! lol

 

[sozetone]

But honestly guys, why are preceptors even bothering now a days? They know what we face? whats the matter with them, they cant just let us slide through ya know? All mine did. I mean , I worked hard, but was simple. some just bust ballz for unknown reasons....really

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Interesting stuff. I had the same issue with my preceptor. The preceptor did not like students from my school and even me. All my next rotations are good preceptors from what I heard from students in my class and some of them are faculty preceptors that I know and are also nice. I feel that if preceptors fail students, they should not even be precepting. Period! They would might as well not take students anymore from my school or something. I learned way more from my make up block than the preceptor that failed me. Being a top student in my class, I've never failed a class or even failed rotation before. I barely have B's in my program, mostly all A's and no C's. After failing my first rotation, I'm thinking that this does not make any sense at all. I feel that with having a preceptor that doesn't like you, there is really no control over your grade. No matter how hard you work. My first 3 years of pharmacy school was all a choice if you wanted an A or an F. But in rotation, it all depends on the preceptor.

 

[lord999]

Interesting stuff. I had the same issue with my preceptor. The preceptor did not like students from my school and even me. All my next rotations are good preceptors from what I heard from students in my class and some of them are faculty preceptors that I know and are also nice. I feel that if preceptors fail students, they should not even be precepting. Period! They would might as well not take students anymore from my school or something. I learned way more from my make up block than the preceptor that failed me. Being a top student in my class, I've never failed a class or even failed rotation before. I barely have B's in my program, mostly all A's and no C's. After failing my first rotation, I'm thinking that this does not make any sense at all. I feel that with having a preceptor that doesn't like you, there is really no control over your grade. No matter how hard you work. My first 3 years of pharmacy school was all a choice if you wanted an A or an F. But in rotation, it all depends on the preceptor.

You should have been briefed to have contacted the experiential education coordinator within the first week. That happens, and we can fix those circumstances (and including taking personnel action against the pharmacist). I had one of those rotations myself, so I'm pretty sensitive to a hostile preceptor. Good thing I was on a P/F rotation grade cycle.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

You should have been briefed to have contacted the experiential education coordinator within the first week. That happens, and we can fix those circumstances (and including taking personnel action against the pharmacist). I had one of those rotations myself, so I'm pretty sensitive to a hostile preceptor. Good thing I was on a P/F rotation grade cycle.

I didn’t really meet with the preceptor my first week. Only 2 days before midpoint and I thought I was doing just fine. Nothing was gone over during midpoint. I should have asked for that. But if I was already failing, the preceptor should have gone over that with me as a requirement.

 

[lord999]

I didn’t really meet with the preceptor my first week. Only 2 days before midpoint and I thought I was doing just fine. Nothing was gone over during midpoint. I should have asked for that. But if I was already failing, the preceptor should have gone over that with me as a requirement.

Reminder that we only hear your side of the story, but if that's true, your grade is immediately appealable. The EC would actually be in violation for letting that stand if that really was true. You are supposed to be warned if your failure is imminent and discussed with the EC and put on a PIP.

 

[Saisri_PharmStdnt]

*disclaimer - I am not a student yet - interview is in 2 weeks, but I work with preceptors and the students on rotations.*

One of the BIGGEST issues that I see from students is their lack of communication skills regardless of their native language.

Students lack confidence, ability to speak in front of small groups, ability to ask the questions that they mean to ask. Those that do well, not only do what is asked of them, but ask what else they can assist with. Or if they finished their given task, they'll branch off and look for even more information that may support what they are doing.

The students have to also make a presentation in front of a small group of pharmacists, other students, and others interested in the topic (they may have to give the presentation more than once in order for everyone to see it). Those that don't do as well use a lot of filler words/sounds (Like, Umm, Uhh, etc..), they are quiet and don't project, and they lack confidence.

Side note - you don't have to BE confident to SOUND confident, but if you are going to be the authority giving the presentation, you need to come across that way.

Not everyone who is going to do a rotation is going to do well all the time.

• Ask questions - Do not wait for the preceptor to bring something to you or ask you to do something. Step up and ask - Show Initiative!
• Ask this very important question - How could I have done this better? Even if they said you did well, there is always room for improvement. Show that you know that.
• Take constructive criticism well - No one likes to hear that they could have done better, or that they didn't appear to do their best work - no matter how hard you think you did work. Learn from what you're told. If you're not told anything, see points 1 and 2.
• Find your voice - If you have something to contribute, speak up! Just remember to be respectful and professional. You are also showing how you act in a professional environment.
• Treat the rotation as a job interview - Be professional, act professional. Even if you are in a rotation that you don't actually want to work in, you're still "working" in a professional environment.
• Learn to work with others - You do not know more than those in charge. You are a student. Absorb. Learn. Put your BEST self forward. Learn to work with all kinds. Learn to work with those you don't particularly care for. Learn to work under someone whose management style you like. Put as much effort into learning how to work under someone whose management style you don't like.

These are life lessons that are going to carry you much farther than just graduating pharmacy school (or any school, really).

 

[Deja]

Actually, you might get a chance to retaliate when you get older. I certainly got even with one of the three preceptors who made my life hell when I was in rotations. I apparently screwed over another one of the three, but that was in a capacity where I just didn't act on something.

The people who say that revenge is an empty feeling have never done it right, it's phenomenal on a primal level and I still use it as my happy memory when the headaches of power get to me.

seems like you have a relatable story for everything

 

[mentos]

OP, this situation sucks but you will run into this in the real world. When I floated, everyone I worked with loved me. Techs, pharmacists, managers. They all told me it was a pleasure to have me and I was better than their staff pharmacists. Then when I became a staff things were good until the PIC left and we got a new dick PIC who would always disparage me and would always find something to be unhappy about. I finally changed stores and my new PIC loves me. I haven't changed a thing, the only thing that changed was the PIC. The only thing you can do is change stores or jobs.

 

[bacillus1]

For every school whose students I've worked with, they had a midpoint and a final evaluation. If you do not receive a midpoint by the end of the 3rd week, you should remind your preceptor. If your preceptor still doesn't give you one, you should bring it up with the school. Also, if you don't receive feedback, it should be your responsibility to ask for it. Not saying that your preceptor was right, but you should also have an active role in soliciting feedback for your rotations.

 

[SomeOneNew]

Interesting stuff. I had the same issue with my preceptor. The preceptor did not like students from my school and even me. All my next rotations are good preceptors from what I heard from students in my class and some of them are faculty preceptors that I know and are also nice. I feel that if preceptors fail students, they should not even be precepting. Period! They would might as well not take students anymore from my school or something. I learned way more from my make up block than the preceptor that failed me. Being a top student in my class, I've never failed a class or even failed rotation before. I barely have B's in my program, mostly all A's and no C's. After failing my first rotation, I'm thinking that this does not make any sense at all. I feel that with having a preceptor that doesn't like you, there is really no control over your grade. No matter how hard you work. My first 3 years of pharmacy school was all a choice if you wanted an A or an F. But in rotation, it all depends on the preceptor.

Thepharmstudent1111m think you need to think of your experience from another prospective. All preceptors were once student and understand what the consequences of failing a rotation will be. It takes a lot of gut to fail a student and not feel guilty or regret it about it by the end of the day. While venting on the forum will help relieve stress, figuring out why a preceptor would actually fail you will benefit you in the long run. If a preceptor did not like all students from a school, they do not and will not stay as a preceptor. Preceptors, for most part, do not get paid and do not receive any type of compensation.

As a student, I had a preceptor that I disliked so much that I still use her as an example to my students to this day. I tell my students, you will not like every preceptor, however, there is always something to learn from them, such as, what NOT to be. I may not have received an A but I still did not fail her rotation. As a preceptor, I am a tough retail pharmacy rotation for P4 students, because my logic is this: In a years time or less you will be sitting in my very position with no one to guide you. People's lives are at your hands and being a retail pharmacist requires more knowledge than just being able to count by 5's. From what you said, you think a preceptor should not fail a student if you feel that student may cause harm as a pharmacist and do harm to the patients in the community?

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

[-

 

[BidingMyTime]

Also not just our school, but we lost so many sites and preceptors from what I heard, so it is not just me.

If I am understanding your correctly (and I'm not sure I am), it sounds like many students from your class failed their APPE and there are many sites saying they won't take students from your school again? Is this correct? Because if it is, that says there is a real problem with the school and its inability to prepare students to practice pharmacy. It it pretty rare for a student to fail an APPE. Just curious, what was your school's rate for passing NAPLEX last year?

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

If I am understanding your correctly (and I'm not sure I am), it sounds like many students from your class failed their APPE and there are many sites saying they won't take students from your school again? Is this correct? Because if it is, that says there is a real problem with the school and its inability to prepare students to practice pharmacy. It it pretty rare for a student to fail an APPE. Just curious, what was your school's rate for passing NAPLEX last year?

Hello BidingTime, it’s not really having to do with failing students. Some preceptors didn’t like it when students don’t show up or misbehave on rotation. Also another is being able to have the knowledge, but not being able to apply it in a clinical way. There might be some things that students may not know that they might have to look things up. Or there is even information that students have to know before coming on rotation. Our Naplex scores have been in the 70s in the past but have gone slightly lower, but hoping with all the changes it will go up.

 

[Saisri_PharmStdnt]

My original post here was very general, because with so many people reading this thread, I wanted to get that info out there. Maybe it could help someone.

As someone who is probably old enough to be the mom of some of the current students in pharmacy school right now, let me say this (and I know it will be unpopular, but mom-hat is on)...

Not only are you going to have tests in school, LIFE is going to test you. Sometimes, the test isn't about You (how good you are, or how well you did). Sometimes, it's how you handle a situation. Taking ownership of how a situation was handled on both sides is part of being an adult and being a professional. Not saying that another person can't be at fault - of course they can.

There is a whole generation that grew up in the "everyone gets a trophy; it isn't your fault, it's the teacher's fault" environment.

Life doesn't hand you a participation trophy and say Good Job! As the student, it is your job to learn what you can in the time you have. Some of the things you have to learn about yourself or about the world might not be the lessons you thought you were signing up for. Those of us who have been around that block a few times know that some lessons taste pretty bitter. There will always someone in life you feel has slighted you or wronged you.. How you pick yourself up and move on is what shows your true character.

Adulting is tough. In this case, the OP had one bad Preceptor... The class was made up and it's done and over. I'm still not quite sure of your original point of this thread other than needing to vent and hoping that everyone would side with you and tell you how you were wronged.

What could YOU have done differently? What did you learn so you know what to do when you come across the next Preceptor, or Boss, or Manager later that you feel treated you poorly? How much of it is really them and how much of it is really you?

If something was truly in the wrong and 100% not on you, then that is something the school will have to handle. But beware of how that makes you look, too.

Personally, I would have approached the Preceptor to ask what I could have done differently and what specifically they took issue with so that I could work on it, and I would have said it in the nicest way possible to be non-confrontational. The reason for that is because you want the feedback. You don't want the person to be on the defensive, or to be antagonized so that they come back swinging. You need that feedback so that you can honestly evaluate it and decide how to approach your next situation / experience.


Sorry, mom-hat is off now.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

My original post here was very general, because with so many people reading this thread, I wanted to get that info out there. Maybe it could help someone.

As someone who is probably old enough to be the mom of some of the current students in pharmacy school right now, let me say this (and I know it will be unpopular, but mom-hat is on)...

Not only are you going to have tests in school, LIFE is going to test you. Sometimes, the test isn't about You (how good you are, or how well you did). Sometimes, it's how you handle a situation. Taking ownership of how a situation was handled on both sides is part of being an adult and being a professional. Not saying that another person can't be at fault - of course they can.

There is a whole generation that grew up in the "everyone gets a trophy; it isn't your fault, it's the teacher's fault" environment.

Life doesn't hand you a participation trophy and say Good Job! As the student, it is your job to learn what you can in the time you have. Some of the things you have to learn about yourself or about the world might not be the lessons you thought you were signing up for. Those of us who have been around that block a few times know that some lessons taste pretty bitter. There will always someone in life you feel has slighted you or wronged you.. How you pick yourself up and move on is what shows your true character.

Adulting is tough. In this case, the OP had one bad Preceptor... The class was made up and it's done and over. I'm still not quite sure of your original point of this thread other than needing to vent and hoping that everyone would side with you and tell you how you were wronged.

What could YOU have done differently? What did you learn so you know what to do when you come across the next Preceptor, or Boss, or Manager later that you feel treated you poorly? How much of it is really them and how much of it is really you?

If something was truly in the wrong and 100% not on you, then that is something the school will have to handle. But beware of how that makes you look, too.

Personally, I would have approached the Preceptor to ask what I could have done differently and what specifically they took issue with so that I could work on it, and I would have said it in the nicest way possible to be non-confrontational. The reason for that is because you want the feedback. You don't want the person to be on the defensive, or to be antagonized so that they come back swinging. You need that feedback so that you can honestly evaluate it and decide how to approach your next situation / experience.


Sorry, mom-hat is off now.

My original post here was very general, because with so many people reading this thread, I wanted to get that info out there. Maybe it could help someone.

As someone who is probably old enough to be the mom of some of the current students in pharmacy school right now, let me say this (and I know it will be unpopular, but mom-hat is on)...

Not only are you going to have tests in school, LIFE is going to test you. Sometimes, the test isn't about You (how good you are, or how well you did). Sometimes, it's how you handle a situation. Taking ownership of how a situation was handled on both sides is part of being an adult and being a professional. Not saying that another person can't be at fault - of course they can.

There is a whole generation that grew up in the "everyone gets a trophy; it isn't your fault, it's the teacher's fault" environment.

Life doesn't hand you a participation trophy and say Good Job! As the student, it is your job to learn what you can in the time you have. Some of the things you have to learn about yourself or about the world might not be the lessons you thought you were signing up for. Those of us who have been around that block a few times know that some lessons taste pretty bitter. There will always someone in life you feel has slighted you or wronged you.. How you pick yourself up and move on is what shows your true character.

Adulting is tough. In this case, the OP had one bad Preceptor... The class was made up and it's done and over. I'm still not quite sure of your original point of this thread other than needing to vent and hoping that everyone would side with you and tell you how you were wronged.

What could YOU have done differently? What did you learn so you know what to do when you come across the next Preceptor, or Boss, or Manager later that you feel treated you poorly? How much of it is really them and how much of it is really you?

If something was truly in the wrong and 100% not on you, then that is something the school will have to handle. But beware of how that makes you look, too.

Personally, I would have approached the Preceptor to ask what I could have done differently and what specifically they took issue with so that I could work on it, and I would have said it in the nicest way possible to be non-confrontational. The reason for that is because you want the feedback. You don't want the person to be on the defensive, or to be antagonized so that they come back swinging. You need that feedback so that you can honestly evaluate it and decide how to approach your next situation / experience.


Sorry, mom-hat is off now.

Then I might as well force every preceptor to give me a midpoint. Idk why a preceptor would not give me a midpoint til the end of my block after asking the preceptor how I am doing before the midpoint week. Couple things she told me I needed to work on and that was really it. But my midpoint grade was a low failing grade and was never told that. But when I get the eval, it was all this other stuff she never went over with me. And some of the midpoint stuff that was graded was never done during the midpoint. This is why I felt screwed over in a way. Midpoint was posted same time as final eval. Another thing too, it really matters what preceptor you have. I know so many stidents who did terrible and still passed their rotation. I also some who never did anything, just showed up and passed. I guess going in for 12 hour days and working with all my effort and turning in my work and performing the best I could went down the drain. I guess that’s just life. I here for any question that I can answer. I really want rising P4 students to choose their preceptor wisely and to choose what their really interested in. If you have an older buddy that went through rotation and had a preceptor that they don’t recommend, then don’t take them. If you have no other choice but to take them, then pray.

 

[Saisri_PharmStdnt]

Then I might as well force every preceptor to give me a midpoint. Idk why a preceptor would not give me a midpoint til the end of my block after asking the preceptor how I am doing before the midpoint week. Couple things she told me I needed to work on and that was really it. But when I get the eval, it was all this other stuff she never went over with me. And some of the midpoint stuff that was graded was never done during the midpoint. This is why I felt screwed over in a way. Another thing too, it really matters what preceptor you have. I know so many stidents who did terrible and still passed their rotation. I also some who never did anything, just showed up and passed. I guess going in for 12 hour days and working with all my effort and turning in my work and performing the best I could went down the drain. I guess that’s just life.

If you are supposed to have a midpoint, I would always take the initiative of asking your preceptor when you could both sit to discuss it (even before getting it) to show that you're interested in your progress.

Communication is a two-way street. Now you know for future situations to not wait and expect things to work themselves out, or to wait and find out you have a problem with no time left to fix it. So while you might feel "screwed over", you should now have some tools on how to avoid it in the future.

 

[owlegrad]

Yes, you should “force” every preceptor to give you a midpoint, assuming you don’t want to find out at the end you are failing.

 

[PharmlyDoc]

Hello,

I am an P4 student and I failed my first APPE rotation. I am a student with above 3.5, always made the deans list, and one of the top in my class. I followed everything that my preceptor told me to do, showed up on time, did everything in my power to learn. I even gave my preceptor my strengths and weaknesses. I felt that my preceptor basically kept knit picking me on stuff that I am weak on and made it as a failure. I feel that I was overworked as if I am an employee for the company, which I did not think this is right. There was no action plan implemented and preceptor did not tell me what were some things I can work on at all during the rotation. A few days before preceptor told me I failed and never told me anything about me failing before that. On my make up block for my rotation, the preceptor I have now thinks I am amazing and I felt like I am learning and I am doing everything that I am told. I as a pharmacy student has never failed a class before or have any problems with rotation. I am also doing my best to fight the grade I earned from that block I failed. I now realized it is definately the fault of the preceptor after going through my make up block. What do yall think?

This isn’t that uncommon. I’ve seen really smart and high performing pharmacy students fail APPE rotations solely because they stepped on someone toes within the organization they’re having rotations with.
Some of these students are so bright one wonders if the preceptors feel insecure or threatened, and fail the student for their own agenda.

Yes there is always two sides to a story but when the student has a record of good grades at other rotation sites then it’s most definitely not all to be blamed on the student. Some preceptors are just bad, and unfortunately the pharmacy education system is built so the student has zero power to defend his or herself, and in the end the school always gets its way, going off what a preceptor dictates.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

If you are supposed to have a midpoint, I would always take the initiative of asking your preceptor when you could both sit to discuss it (even before getting it) to show that you're interested in your progress.

Communication is a two-way street. Now you know for future situations to not wait and expect things to work themselves out, or to wait and find out you have a problem with no time left to fix it. So while you might feel "screwed over", you should now have some tools on how to avoid it in the future.

And that brings up another thing. Every preceptor is basically required to give you a midpoint. Whether you ask or don’t ask. If they don’t and let’s say you failed and are going to get kicked out fo, I would even talk to the dean

This isn’t that uncommon. I’ve seen really smart and high performing pharmacy students fail APPE rotations solely because they stepped on someone toes within the organization they’re having rotations with.
Some of these students are so bright one wonders if the preceptors feel insecure or threatened, and fail the student for their own agenda.

Yes there is always two sides to a story but when the student has a record of good grades at other rotation sites then it’s most definitely not all to be blamed on the student. Some preceptors are just bad, and unfortunately the pharmacy education system is built so the student has zero power to defend his or herself, and in the end the school always gets its way, going off what a preceptor dictates.

This is the same thought I had and I have heard about that too. Also my grades on rotation are even amazing, even more of a gpa booster. The reason why I say this is my good grade I got on my make up block replaced the failing rotation grade. And you are right about the insecurity. Insecurity is one the characteristics of a micromanager. And I went crazy over this after looking even more about what a micromanager does; they grade based on the details of your performance instead of looking at the big picture of your performance (my number#1 issue on why I received an unfair grade on my evaluation). That right there is what happened to me even when I was looking at my evaluation. This is what really made me cringe and angry. I don’t know how a student can change the perception of a micromanager. One student I know who is actually an adult and a mother had a micromanager pharmacist and decided to leave because she could not take it anymore. It was too much on her. A good example would be I know how to talk to patients over the phone, can I please have the chance to talk to them? Also, I am typing in the full directions in the data entry, why in the world do you want me to put all sigs in place of the full directions. I am still doing the right thing and still getting the job done. Also learning how to input the sigs into the system will take some time to learn and getting used to. So why in the world would you want me to put all sigs in the data entry when it is my first week at your store? Here is true statistics I’ve read, 79% Of employers have been micromanaged. 71% Of them had the inability to perform their job. So they lost their confidence and have failed to learn their job. So they decided this is too much and so they decide to leave. But imagine getting a grade for the rotation. I am a bright student that has been degraded by this preceptor. With me being in student council for 3 years and being in academic honor society, I find this being unbelievable. In some way, I did play a leadership role in all my years in Pharmacy school and I’ve had many students thank me for what I have done in my role position.

 

[Saisri_PharmStdnt]

And that brings up another thing. Every preceptor is basically required to give you a midpoint. Whether you ask or don’t ask. If they don’t and let’s say you failed and are going to get kicked out fo, I would even talk to the dean

My point was, you'd avoid the situation completely if you DID ask. Otherwise, you can talk to the school ( said that earlier), but beware of how you come across in that conversation or it'll look poorly on you and it may give unwanted credibility to the preceptor.