facing dismissal

[Bones DO]

I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree. If the OP went to medical school because he wanted to be a doctor (as opposed to doing it for his parents, etc.), then he should try to see that dream through if that's still what he wants. Considering he was just diagnosed with a learning disability that obviously affected his work, he shouldn't allow one school to tell him he doesn't have what it takes. Not without giving himself a decent chance after working with educational coaches to figure out the best study method for him. If it turns out he can't get a handle on this, it might then be time to consider other fields.

If I gave up my dream -- only a month or so after finding the key to what was holding me back -- because I was dismissed, I think I'd be bitter and angry at MYSELF for not giving myself a chance to cope with my disability and maneuver around it to succeed.

I agree 100% with this. I also agree that students previously dismissed from a US school should avoid the Caribbean as a rule. Although it is likely that many of them would take you now, it is equally as likely that if you jump right back into it, another dismissal would result.

Take the time and put in the effort to deal with your problems, correct them, and come back 10x stronger state side. Good luck!

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[Bones DO]

I know LMU has taken students who were dismissed for failing multiple classes multiple times at other med schools. I hear those students are doing ok now, but don't know any particulars other than that.

UNE will let you repeat courses and years you have failed, but I don't think they'll take anyone dismissed from another school (at least I haven't heard of any such students at UNE).

I also recall Bones got into RVU. His trials and attempts to regain admission to med school are documented here on SDN if you do a search.

I don't know of any other med schools that have taken students with previous medical school problems.

A little less than half of the DO schools consider previously dismissed applicants. I PM'ed the op the list.

 

[slick27]

How should I go about reapplying? Should I take more classes? Should I work with a learning disability spealist? What should be my timeline and things to be accomplished?

I would like to be the class of 2015 somewhere, but that only gives me a year.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

How should I go about reapplying? Should I take more classes? Should I work with a learning disability spealist? What should be my timeline and things to be accomplished?

I would like to be the class of 2015 somewhere, but that only gives me a year.

The class of 2015 is applying now. I don't think that's going to work. I think you have to prove that you've got your LD under control and have been working with educational counselors to help you formulate study plans before re-applying. I would say apply next summer for the Class of 2016.

 

[slick27]

Do you think that I should take any additional classes?

I would just have to think that my chances are slim at getting into another us medical school with a learning disability and dismissal on my record.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Do you think that I should take any additional classes?

I would just have to think that my chances are slim at getting into another us medical school with a learning disability and dismissal on my record.

Well, put it in perspective. You were diagnosed with an LD and dismissed before you had a chance to work it through. I mean, is there any doubt that your LD was directly responsible for your poor scores? No. You didn't get a chance to learn how to study with a learning disability. I do think you need to take classes, preferably on the graduate level. Could you take grad level classes in physiology, anatomy, etc. as a non-degree seeking student somewhere? If so, that's what I'd do. But make sure you're working with educational counselors at the same time. They can tutor you and help you formulate a study plan to make A's. If you re-apply and explain the situation -- what got you dismissed in the first place -- and explain that that has now been resolved, as evidenced by your recent A's in graduate classes in the basic sciences, I think some schools would take a chance on you.

 

[Tekar]

this is my thread...lets turn it back to me.

Well said, enough of the pointless healthcare debate.

I wouldn't give up at all. I'm not sure the path though. It would seem that none of your letters of recommendation work at this point as they assuredly talked about how great you would be, but then you'd be going into an interview with the dismissal in front of them. On the other hand, perhaps you could go back to them to discuss what has happened. If they still believe you'd make a good physician, then perhaps they would address the entirely new context that this whole thing has created. You'd probably benefit with a little time away from the medical school application grind though. Perhaps take a year away from it and explore a Masters Degree in Public Health or something similar to expand your knowledge of health care in general. It'd also give you new opportunities for letters. Age doesn't matter either, if you're still in your early twenties, you've lost nothing. I'm 32 and about to start and left a high school teaching position to pursue medical school. I have always been struck by the extent to which the adversities put before me ended up working out just fine in the end. Easy for me to say though, I'm not facing a perception of humiliation of getting tossed out of medical school, but I can relate by nearly being denied entrance into the teaching profession because of a test. I do have to constantly address why I didn't start teaching and it still irks me to this day, but I"m in a better place now because of that experience.

It's pointless to retake the MCAT. You're score is already fine, although it likely will fall out of the recent time requirement many schools have. It is however an opportunity for improvement that you might strongly consider. Safe to say you have increased your biology knowledge in the last year, regardless of what tests say.

I have to say that much of your improvement is going to come in how you build a new personal statement. I'm sure your first was filled with lofty goals and beliefs where now you have cold hard reality to work with. Much of your success would seem to also lay in how you manage to come to terms with this experience. I say that because they are going to ask you about it in future interviews, and how you come across in that moment will likely determine if you are going to be a doctor. I'm not sure what the right answer to that question is though. If I were interviewing, coming from a former Special Education teacher, I know what I would be looking for in that answer, but there aren't very many former Special Education teachers on those adcom's...

I am sorry to hear about your decision. It wasn't your path. Clearly, you are meant to be some place else next fall and perhaps you are meant to become a physician somewhere else later in life. Regardless of the path, this is one of those moments in life where things go one way or the other, both directions are profound. Try not to get wrapped up in this as any type of failure, so much as a change in path.

Hope that helps....

Regards

 

[ShyRem]

If you have been diagnosed with a LD, then you should immediately now find a place to help you cope with said LD. There are coping skills and learning skills that you should be focusing on. Looking into getting help to mitigate and manage your LD would be a big point in your favor I would think. You will likely have to relearn how to learn.

Unfortunately, not having a LD I would have no idea where you would find such help - but I have heard it exists. Kaplan does it for little kids, as do other learning centers for children. I don't know about adult ed though. Perhaps go to your local university and talk to an education PhD professor?

 

[MossPoh]

I get that. And perhaps I'm missing something or doing a poor job of properly framing my question.

If the problem is a difficulty in processing information which is presented to you in auditory fashion, then I take this to mean that when someone talks to you you have difficulty remembering the information, or putting it into a proper context, or some other issue.

So I still wonder what your plan is when you reach residency, and you have to deal with patients who will be explaining their woes to you (verbally) and you will have to quickly (at times) gather and process that verbally delivered information and come up with a proper reaction.

Work ethic is great and will get you very far when time is not an issue, but you often don't have that luxury in medicine... even more so during residency.

You find ways to compensate. I'm really bad at auditory stuff..horrendous really. Patient stories are a little different than lecture things. It takes a tremendous amount of focus and telling myself "pay attention" over and over again. I front load my material a ton compared to others. If I haven't read something before hand then the little bell won't go off in my head as loudly when I encounter a patient reporting symptoms.

Docs are notoriously piss poor at listening to patients, so it should be something EVERYBODY continually works on. But once again, patients telling me stuff is different and requires less processing than some hardcore science lecture.

 

[homeboy]

pardon me for being a prikc, but does getting into medical school guarantee matriculation?
i understand there is a fine line between the people that fail out and the ones that barely pass, but isn't the definition of failing 'having a learning disability'?
kudos, you have a grea GPA and MCAt, and have made it this far, but failing numerous med school courses may also mean an inability to, well, get through med school. I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in my doctor if i knew his standards were lowered to accomodate his inability to pass courses.

i realize i'm perhaps not saying the nicest thing, and will undoubtedly be trashed by the multitudes of sympathizers, but i can't help but play devil's advocate.

getting a waiver for innate disabilities / incapabilities / whatever you want to call them, doesn't guarantee equal outcome by any stretch of the imagination.

if person 'a' cannot lift the required minimum to be a UPS driver, etc, does that mean they have a muscular disability? hey, maybe, and im sure there are plenty of aclu-types that would be willing to defend you under the AWDAct.
BUT getting all the way to med school with supposedly stellar GPA and scores, despite your predilection to "not pay attention in class", seems odd...that now that you're challeneged with a difficult and grueling course load, you can't pass, NOW you have a learning disability?

ok, commence with backlash.

 

[tkim]

pardon me for being a prikc, but does getting into medical school guarantee matriculation?

You meant 'graduation' not matriculation. Admission leads to matriculation. Matriculation leads to graduation.

 

[mmz737]

No admission doesn't guarantee graduation but plenty of people without disabilities fail out and the law entitles people with disabilities to receive reasonable accommodations (ADA Section 504).

 

[singinfifi]

if person 'a' cannot lift the required minimum to be a UPS driver, etc, does that mean they have a muscular disability?

Let me start by saying as far as labor law goes, I'm a reasonably conservative person. I sit in seminars and hear them talking about updating the FMLA to include time for parent/teacher conferences, requiring PTO for companies with 15 people and I think to my self "Sweet God...this'll be the end of American small business". But I guess my liberal streak really shows through when dealing with people with "disabilities".

There's something called dispaired impact...or despaired impact, I really have no idea which off the top of my head. But it basically says that you can't put requirements on getting a job that the job itself wouldn't ABSOLUTELY require you to do. Everyone throws that example around all the time and nobody knows how wrong it actually is. I was working for a store and the manager said that to one girl they were interviewing - "Can you lift 50 pounds? you have to be able to lift 50 pounds for this job" (she was applying to work in floral arranging) that was pretty ridiculous.

If the requirements do (say, having to have a highschool diploma to be a ditch digger, or having to be able lift 50 pounds to drive a UPS truck when you don't HAVE to lift 50 pounds, unassisted, on a regular basis...dollies/ramps/all sorts of aids to help you do that) then they are invalid and the test itself discriminates against those that can't. It's illegal.

You don't have to "dead lift" 50 pounds to be a UPS driver, you have to be able to maneuver a 50 pound box with the help of dollies, ramps and sometimes, even a partner. Lots of people CAN "dead lift" 50 pounds who are UPS workers, and that's awesome for them, but no, it's not a requirement.

Should a mostly deaf person not be allowed to go medical school because they can't hear anything without their hearing aids? What about someone whose missing an arm?

Lots of people CAN get through medical school just going to classes and studying the way they've always studied, but that's not a requirement either. There are resources. It's a shame the OP either didn't have them available or didn't know they needed them until too late.

Most of my classmates have to do something twice MAYBE three times (a few lucky ones only have to do it once), I have to read something 4, maybe 5 sometimes 6 times before it sticks. My grades are average. I work VERY hard. Does that mean I'm less qualified to be a physician then the guy who gets it all after one read through? Does that mean I should be thrown out on my @$$??? I hope not. I could EASILY have seen my grades going the "other way" if I hadn't figured the type of problem I was having out early in my first year. I'm LUCKY I figured out how to adjust my studying approach.

I feel for you OP, I really do. One of my best friends in my class took a leave of absence after failing two classes our first semester, and hasn't come back. She would have been an amazing physician, a much better one then a lot of people who ARE "making it", I think.

I wish you the absolute best of luck. If this is what you want to do , figure out what you need to do to to do it. I think it was ShyRem who mentioned how kaplan and sylvan do programs for kids with learning disabilities, I'm not sure they have them for adults but, if you have a college near by, enroll there (if you can, even for one class) and use their student services dept. A lot of times they have psychologists on staff and professionals who can really help you figure out what's what in terms of how YOU need to best process information.

 

[clift]

When I was a DO student we had a very nice seemingly smart and capable student who was unable to pass most of the first year classes. Luckily for her our school had at the time a very liberal repeat policy, (put in place to help the unqualified children of the board members and university staff who were allowed to enroll for a free DO education) which it has since changed. She was able to repeat her first year, but still failed most of the courses a second time. She then applied to a Caribbean school and was accepted but failed out. She never graduated. She was maxing out her student loans the entire time so she borrowed for the equivalent of four years of private med school. She only has a transcript of failed first year courses to show for it and at least $150,000 in dept.

If she had seen the writing on the wall and given up after one year she would have only been $40,000 in debt and had three year to train for an alternate career.

She would have been an amazing physician, a much better one then a lot of people who ARE "making it", I think.

It seems to keep trying something you have already failed at is just going to get you the same result next time. I would cut my losses and think of something else you want to do other than medicine.

I think the lawyer route is most likely going to be a costly mistake. The lawyer will milk you for thousands of dollars, you most likely will not get any where other than an making sure that you will not be accepted by another DO school. Any DO school that would consider you will call your current school and when they hear about the lawsuit you will be denied admission. If they take a gamble on accepting you they don't want to get sued if you fail out of their school.

 

[singinfifi]

It seems to keep trying something you have already failed at is just going to get you the same result next time. I would cut my losses and think of something else you want to do other than medicine.

Any DO school that would consider you will call your current school and when they hear about the lawsuit you will be denied admission. If they take a gamble on accepting you they don't want to get sued you fail out of their school.

1- agree, if you try to do it the same way.
2- 100% agree. With the idea of a lawyer being a bad idea. Apply elsewhere if you want to be a doctor. Don't sue. Besides, Why go where you aren't wanted?

 

[Rollo]

You find ways to compensate. I'm really bad at auditory stuff..horrendous really. Patient stories are a little different than lecture things. It takes a tremendous amount of focus and telling myself "pay attention" over and over again. I front load my material a ton compared to others. If I haven't read something before hand then the little bell won't go off in my head as loudly when I encounter a patient reporting symptoms.

Docs are notoriously piss poor at listening to patients, so it should be something EVERYBODY continually works on. But once again, patients telling me stuff is different and requires less processing than some hardcore science lecture.

I wonder if it is because the basic science lecturers are not the greatest of orators and lot of them talk in monotone, and add on top of that, they're explaining some of the most mundane scientific details that you will never need to know again in your life.

So now in your case, are you able to access other resources like textbooks, review books, scribe notes, powerpoints, and understand the material just fine?

 

[clift]

1- agree, if you try to do it the same way.

If the OP decides to reapply, they need to evaluate why they failed and have a realistic plan other that to, try harder next time. They need to, at a minimum spend this application year reading step one review books and the basic science text books, for the first and second years classes, for eight hours or more per day. That way when they next step foot in a med school classroom they will be better prepared than the rest of the students.

 

[Dissected]

I agree that a lawyer might be a poor choice at this stage...especially if you are considering other medical schools if yours doesn't work out. It would be a major red flag, and possibly a nail in the coffin. Think about it, the other schools that are willing to consider you in spite of all your struggles see that you took legal action against the school that let you go. I feel like they would run as fast as they could.

Also, utilizing a lawyer at your former institution would cause all matters to be negotiated by the legal counsel of both parties. No more speaking with committees or deans.. and for what? if you did get back into the school, you would have done so with a lawyer that by some feat overturned their original decision, which they probably felt they were right about. Not exactly the atmosphere you want to go waltzing back into.

I would agree with a few of the more recent posters.. I would take a year or so off (as hard as that may be to swallow), tackle this learning disability with counselors and guidance, and come back ready to apply with confidence. You could get EMT or even Paramedic certified and have a steady job in your time off. You would learn some new things about patient care that way too. I'm really bummed about this whole thing, it is a really sad thing to have lost you, I think we lost a few more this term unfortunately. Good luck, know that this isn't the end of the world, life is just taking an unexpected turn.

 

[singinfifi]

If the OP decides to reapply, they need to evaluate why they failed and have a realistic plan other that to, try harder next time.

I kind of thought that was a given, but you're right. Shouldn't assume. (Yes. 100% agree with what clift said)

They need to, at a minimum spend this application year reading step one review books and the basic science text books, for the first and second years classes, for eight hours or more per day.

Well I'm not sure THAT level is *necessary* (Infact, i think that's pretty much impossible, especially since loans will have come due and the OP will probably have a job and that's more time then a full time hourly job will require per week). But I think you're probably right in that reviewing and relearning for this year off would be a VERY good idea.

 

[clift]

Well I'm not sure THAT level is *necessary* (Infact, i think that's pretty much impossible, especially since loans will have come due and the OP will probably have a job and that's more time then a full time hourly job will require per week). But I think you're probably right in that reviewing and relearning for this year off would be a VERY good idea.

If the OP wants to change his results next time. He is going to have to arrive to classes prepared, already knowing the material. This is going to take a herculean effort to learn the material, which if he is serious is what he should be doing during the year he is reapplying to get in to school.
If you work 8 hour per day you still have 8 hour to study and 8 hours to sleep, plus all of Saturday and Sunday to cach up. So if the OP is determined 40 hour a week of study is easily accomplished despite working a full time job. He might even find a job where he can get paid and study at the same time.

Unfortunately sometimes you can try hard, do your best, and your best just isn't good enough. Your best plan may be to cut you loses and try something else.

"You can plan all you want to. You can lie in your morning bed and fill whole notebooks with schemes and intentions. But within a single afternoon, within hours or minutes, everything you plan and everything you have fought to make yourself can be undone as a slug is undone when salt is pured on him. And right up to the moment when you find yourself dissolving into foam you can still believe you are doing fine". -Wallace Stegner

 

[slick27]

I agree that a lawyer might be a poor choice at this stage...especially if you are considering other medical schools if yours doesn't work out. It would be a major red flag, and possibly a nail in the coffin. Think about it, the other schools that are willing to consider you in spite of all your struggles see that you took legal action against the school that let you go. I feel like they would run as fast as they could.

Also, utilizing a lawyer at your former institution would cause all matters to be negotiated by the legal counsel of both parties. No more speaking with committees or deans.. and for what? if you did get back into the school, you would have done so with a lawyer that by some feat overturned their original decision, which they probably felt they were right about. Not exactly the atmosphere you want to go waltzing back into.

I would agree with a few of the more recent posters.. I would take a year or so off (as hard as that may be to swallow), tackle this learning disability with counselors and guidance, and come back ready to apply with confidence. You could get EMT or even Paramedic certified and have a steady job in your time off. You would learn some new things about patient care that way too. I'm really bummed about this whole thing, it is a really sad thing to have lost you, I think we lost a few more this term unfortunately. Good luck, know that this isn't the end of the world, life is just taking an unexpected turn.

Thats what I was thinking. But, maybe a lawyer could get me some of my money back. I think I would try to argue for money compensation rather than to be reinstated as a student. Both, would be best I guess.

 

[singinfifi]

Thats what I was thinking. But, maybe a lawyer could get me some of my money back. I think I would try to argue for money compensation rather than to be reinstated as a student. Both, would be best I guess.

Any lawyer that tells you you have a leg to stand on to try to get money BACK from your school (after you attended the ENTIRE year) is a hack. You should avoid them. The school fulfilled their part of the agreement. They provided you with the same instruction they provided everyone else. That's what they agreed to do and they did it. I'm sure your school has (like mine) a time period during which a refund of tuition is possible. It's not at the end of the year. You still used the service they provided, even if you did not succeed.

Now, compensation might be another matter, but probably not. You're going to have a very hard time convincing anyone that your school acted improperly. SHOULD they have helped you? Yeah, I think they should have (then again, you didn't really know what was wrong, did you?). Did they HAVE TO? no, unfortunately not, unless you are the member of a protected group that you can prove they acted unfairly towards, then you might have a $ case. I'd steer clear of the legal arena for this one , but that's just me.

 

[NJWxMan]

Unfortunately, I will have to also say that moving on to another career choice is the best option at this point. I just completed my COMLEX Level III; preparing for MS-I and MS-II exams was probably the least difficult aspect of my medical education process. If you cannot pass the classes, how are you going to self prepare for Level II or Level III? I, too, have a very difficult time understanding how you could complete college with a high GPA and score highly on your MCAT, only to declare learning disability and hence, the need now for special privileges. I think any other osteopathic adcom would roll its eyes at this situation.

 

[singinfifi]

I, too, have a very difficult time understanding how you could complete college with a high GPA and score highly on your MCAT, only to declare learning disability

Hey, it happens. I promise.

I'm not sure "declare" is the right word, "discover" maybe?
This may or may not be what happened to the OP, I'm just saying that with medical school comes an entirely different ball game. You can't honestly sit there and say that med school (even MS1) was the same as college. It's perfectly plausible to consider someone who is very intelligent and never really had to study/work at anything in highschool/college/mcat prep showing up at medical school and discovering that they just can't grasp things that way and being completely blindsided by it.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

.

 

[Rollo]

Thats what I was thinking. But, maybe a lawyer could get me some of my money back. I think I would try to argue for money compensation rather than to be reinstated as a student. Both, would be best I guess.

Bad idea.

The school doesn't owe you any money. Like the above poster said, they completed their duty...their "job". They didn't know you had a learning disability because you didn't know you had one until the very end. Had they known earlier, they would have made some accommodations. If they had failed to made such accommodations, then you would have had a case.

If you want to go to a medical school in the states again, do NOT involve a lawyer.

And I think you should pay heed to what lot of the residents and attendings posting on this thread are saying. They know how tough medical education gets from year 1 and out. Seriously consider what they have to say.

 

[ShyRem]

There are people who find they have learning disabilities in med school. Girl in my class did quite well, high GPA, high MCAT, honored every first year med school class. Then second year hit and she couldn't pass by memorizing and word vomit anymore. She discovered a "learning disability" regarding putting information together. And she failed several second year classes. Then she failed boards - not once, but twice. Barely squeaked by on her third try.

So it does happen. Unfortunately, biology majors are mostly good for memorization skills which is great for first year, but not for second on up. If you have problems in something other than memorization it may not show up until you have to start putting information together and thinking through the problem rather than just memorizing your answers.

 

[InTheMaking]

Thats what I was thinking. But, maybe a lawyer could get me some of my money back. I think I would try to argue for money compensation rather than to be reinstated as a student. Both, would be best I guess.

And why exactly would you get money back? Its like you bought a boat, and then the boat was sank by a torpedo, so you go back to the guy who sold you the boat and said, I want my money because my boat sank....

 

[homeboy]

If you have problems in something other than memorization it may not show up until you have to start putting information together and thinking through the problem rather than just memorizing your answers.

Ok, so if you realize or discover at age 23 you can't do anything beyond "memorize," does that mean you have a learning disability, or are just like most people who couldn't make it through med school? Or does that mean everyone who can't make it into / pass medical school has a "learning disability"?

Listen, I feel for the OP as much as the next person, so as someone else suggested, take some time off, maybe do some research or EMT or something, try to tackle your issue, and try again. If you still can't do it, well, unfortuntely, not everyone can.

It's not like passing medical school is an innate ability and failing out means you have a deficiency...

So what's the difference between failing out because of a "learning disability" and failing out because you simply couldn't pass the courses, despite your hard work? ...or does everyone who puts their heart into medical school only to fail have a "learning disability"?

A "learning disability" implies a deficiency in "learning"...isn't that what prevents most people (who would otherwise attend were it not for their grades/scores/etc) from going to medical school? Not being able to complete the required coursework to the standard?

I would love to be an astronaut, but have a horrible fear of heights and fail the flight sims repeatedly...should NASA accomodate me?

I would love to be a Delta Force operative, but can't complete the 20 mile road march in the required time...should the government accomodate me?

At what point do the requirements of the job/training trump the inability of the participants to succeed?

I understand there are plenty of bad docs who shouldn't be docs, and there are plenty of unsuccessful applicants who would make great docs. But failing every single class in medical school seems to be suggestive of, just maybe, an inability to pass... Does that mean you have a learning disability? Apparently, becuase your "learning" is not on par with what is required of medical school. Does that mean the standards should be lowered to accomodate your inability to learn medical school coursework? I guess I say no.

It's not going to end at med school...residency, though not as "book" heavy as medical school, isn't any easier, and it doesn't end there...there's RISE exams, boards, re-cert...it never ends.

 

[MN premed]

Ok, so if you realize or discover at age 23 you can't do anything beyond "memorize," does that mean you have a learning disability, or are just like most people who couldn't make it through med school? Or does that mean everyone who can't make it into / pass medical school has a "learning disability"?

Listen, I feel for the OP as much as the next person, so as someone else suggested, take some time off, maybe do some research or EMT or something, try to tackle your issue, and try again. If you still can't do it, well, unfortuntely, not everyone can.

It's not like passing medical school is an innate ability and failing out means you have a deficiency...

So what's the difference between failing out because of a "learning disability" and failing out because you simply couldn't pass the courses, despite your hard work? ...or does everyone who puts their heart into medical school only to fail have a "learning disability"?

A "learning disability" implies a deficiency in "learning"...isn't that what prevents most people (who would otherwise attend were it not for their grades/scores/etc) from going to medical school? Not being able to complete the required coursework to the standard?

I would love to be an astronaut, but have a horrible fear of heights and fail the flight sims repeatedly...should NASA accomodate me?

I would love to be a Delta Force operative, but can't complete the 20 mile road march in the required time...should the government accomodate me?

At what point do the requirements of the job/training trump the inability of the participants to succeed?

I understand there are plenty of bad docs who shouldn't be docs, and there are plenty of unsuccessful applicants who would make great docs. But failing every single class in medical school seems to be suggestive of, just maybe, an inability to pass... Does that mean you have a learning disability? Apparently, becuase your "learning" is not on par with what is required of medical school. Does that mean the standards should be lowered to accomodate your inability to learn medical school coursework? I guess I say no.

It's not going to end at med school...residency, though not as "book" heavy as medical school, isn't any easier, and it doesn't end there...there's RISE exams, boards, re-cert...it never ends.

I was thinking the same thing...

 

[Gabby]

As someone who just finished first year, I think anyone who's smart enough to get INTO med school is smart enough to pass first-year classes. First-year is not rocket science. The material is rather easy, actually. It's the volume of it that's horrible. For someone with a learning disability, I can totally see how difficult it would be to organize the material in a way most conducive to learning it.

 

[slick27]

I didn't bomb any first year classes. I failed by a couple of percent. Plus, I worked for four years prior to going to medical school, thus, my undergraduate was long forgoten.

And who knows if the learning disablity is real or not. I might milk it for as much as it worth though.

 

[slick27]

Ok, so if you realize or discover at age 23 you can't do anything beyond "memorize," does that mean you have a learning disability, or are just like most people who couldn't make it through med school? Or does that mean everyone who can't make it into / pass medical school has a "learning disability"?

Listen, I feel for the OP as much as the next person, so as someone else suggested, take some time off, maybe do some research or EMT or something, try to tackle your issue, and try again. If you still can't do it, well, unfortuntely, not everyone can.

It's not like passing medical school is an innate ability and failing out means you have a deficiency...

So what's the difference between failing out because of a "learning disability" and failing out because you simply couldn't pass the courses, despite your hard work? ...or does everyone who puts their heart into medical school only to fail have a "learning disability"?

A "learning disability" implies a deficiency in "learning"...isn't that what prevents most people (who would otherwise attend were it not for their grades/scores/etc) from going to medical school? Not being able to complete the required coursework to the standard?

I would love to be an astronaut, but have a horrible fear of heights and fail the flight sims repeatedly...should NASA accomodate me?

I would love to be a Delta Force operative, but can't complete the 20 mile road march in the required time...should the government accomodate me?

At what point do the requirements of the job/training trump the inability of the participants to succeed?

I understand there are plenty of bad docs who shouldn't be docs, and there are plenty of unsuccessful applicants who would make great docs. But failing every single class in medical school seems to be suggestive of, just maybe, an inability to pass... Does that mean you have a learning disability? Apparently, becuase your "learning" is not on par with what is required of medical school. Does that mean the standards should be lowered to accomodate your inability to learn medical school coursework? I guess I say no.

It's not going to end at med school...residency, though not as "book" heavy as medical school, isn't any easier, and it doesn't end there...there's RISE exams, boards, re-cert...it never ends.

I can do everything but memorize, that was my med school problem. Yeah, about 3 to 5 percent of medical students have LD's, get over it.

 

[drizzt3117]

I can do everything but memorize, that was my med school problem. Yeah, about 3 to 5 percent of medical students have LD's, get over it.

it's a good thing comlex and step 1 require no memorization...

 

[Rollo]

And who knows if the learning disablity is real or not. I might milk it for as much as it worth though.

No wonder your appeal was denied.

They saw right through you and figured out that you're attempting to cover your lack of a strong work ethic by this ambiguous camouflage of learning disability.

 

[ChrisKnight]

I didn't bomb any first year classes. I failed by a couple of percent. Plus, I worked for four years prior to going to medical school, thus, my undergraduate was long forgoten.

And who knows if the learning disablity is real or not. I might milk it for as much as it worth though.

Homeboy is the sane voice in this thread.

I'm not sure why everybody always rushes to the side of the person who fails multiple classes. The goal of medical school is to create doctors that won't kill people. You've got to have standards, and multiple failures doesn't cut it.

And if the above quote is any indication of Slick as a person, I'm glad your med school dismissed you.

 

[Orthodoc40]

There's a difference b/w someone claiming they have a learning disability and someone being diagnosed w/a learning disability by a qualified neuropsych tester.

OP, there is no harm in simply contacting a lawyer and relaying your situation to get advise on whether or not there is reason to pursue legal action. Good attorneys will usually hear at least a bit of your story and let you know what your rights are. Good attorneys aren't going to waste their time on something that's going to go nowhere. Notice I said, "GOOD attorneys". One can almost always find a lawyer willing to take on their case, whether it be worthwhile to the person or not.

That said, you only have so much time & energy & money to spend, and you might rather spend those on things like deciding whether or not to apply elsewhere and what to do to prepare for that.

Sorry to hear your appeal was denied. From the info you've given us, it seems to me that your school may not have done a whole lot to help you succeed. Unlike some other posters here, my impression of med school administration is that they believe they are making an investment in their students, and try to support their success. Clearly some do this more than others, though none will (or should) offer infinite chances to remediate.

 

[slick27]

There's a difference b/w someone claiming they have a learning disability and someone being diagnosed w/a learning disability by a qualified neuropsych tester.

OP, there is no harm in simply contacting a lawyer and relaying your situation to get advise on whether or not there is reason to pursue legal action. Good attorneys will usually hear at least a bit of your story and let you know what your rights are. Good attorneys aren't going to waste their time on something that's going to go nowhere. Notice I said, "GOOD attorneys". One can almost always find a lawyer willing to take on their case, whether it be worthwhile to the person or not.

That said, you only have so much time & energy & money to spend, and you might rather spend those on things like deciding whether or not to apply elsewhere and what to do to prepare for that.

Sorry to hear your appeal was denied. From the info you've given us, it seems to me that your school may not have done a whole lot to help you succeed. Unlike some other posters here, my impression of med school administration is that they believe they are making an investment in their students, and try to support their success. Clearly some do this more than others, though none will (or should) offer infinite chances to remediate.

This is why I could not recomend my school to anyone. I also agree a school should not offer infinite chances to remediate, but they should make an attemp to help their struggling students. At my school, I was offered no help and continued to struggle. I got the feeling they were waiting for me to fail out. I am disapointed in the choice of school I decided to attend.

 

[slick27]

it's a good thing comlex and step 1 require no memorization...

good thing

 

[futIDdoc]

This is why I could not recomend my school to anyone. I also agree a school should not offer infinite chances to remediate, but they should make an attemp to help their struggling students. At my school, I was offered no help and continued to struggle. I got the feeling they were waiting for me to fail out. I am disapointed in the choice of school I decided to attend.

Highly doubt that. If an M1 fails, their school will not collect about 100-120k in tuition. They have every reason to keep capable individuals in school for the entire four years. As for the lawyer part, I am sure that during your orientation the dismissal policy was laid out to you in plain, matter of fact english, thus you knew the consequences of failing and probably have no real recourse. As for the "I was out of school for four years" excuse, HA! Me too bro, and I killed the M1 material because I knew what it was like to work. If anything being out for four years should have given you a distinct advantage by making you hungrier and more dedicated that your classmates.

 

[drizzt3117]

This is why I could not recomend my school to anyone. I also agree a school should not offer infinite chances to remediate, but they should make an attemp to help their struggling students. At my school, I was offered no help and continued to struggle. I got the feeling they were waiting for me to fail out. I am disapointed in the choice of school I decided to attend.

What was the percentage you needed to pass? 70%? Less? How many classes did you fail? From your posts it sounds like a lot. Seems like you were pretty aware you were struggling and didn't make corrections to fix it. What should your school have done? It's not like you got kicked out for failing one class.

You were complaining that they emphasize what they teach in lecture, when in fact that's a tremendous advantage. At many schools (such as mine) they'll give you a 500 page packet of notes per month, 30-40 50-100 slide lecture powerpoints, and the oral material given in lecture, a suggested textbook (Robbins, Moore's whatever) and anything from any of those sources is fair game for testing so you need to know it all. Seems like if your school told you exactly what you need to know in lecture you're at a huge advantage. If they told students what they would be tested on in most schools people would probably actually go to class.

 

[Parietal Lobe]

What was the percentage you needed to pass? 70%? Less? How many classes did you fail? From your posts it sounds like a lot. Seems like you were pretty aware you were struggling and didn't make corrections to fix it. What should your school have done? It's not like you got kicked out for failing one class.

You were complaining that they emphasize what they teach in lecture, when in fact that's a tremendous advantage. At many schools (such as mine) they'll give you a 500 page packet of notes per month, 30-40 50-100 slide lecture powerpoints, and the oral material given in lecture, a suggested textbook (Robbins, Moore's whatever) and anything from any of those sources is fair game for testing so you need to know it all. Seems like if your school told you exactly what you need to know in lecture you're at a huge advantage. If they told students what they would be tested on in most schools people would probably actually go to class.

I don't know what school the OP goes to, but there are some DO schools that will dismiss you if you fail two classes. This is unlike my school and many other MD schools which allow you to fail one class with summer remediation and two classes with first year remediation.

 

[thepoopologist]

Homeboy is the sane voice in this thread.

I'm not sure why everybody always rushes to the side of the person who fails multiple classes. The goal of medical school is to create doctors that won't kill people. You've got to have standards, and multiple failures doesn't cut it.

And if the above quote is any indication of Slick as a person, I'm glad your med school dismissed you.

Yes, let's kick him while he's down!


I agree with slicks quote. If I was in that position Id use whatever I had to leverage myself back into a school. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen but lets not pretend that you care about anyones situation but your own, so please stop being a piece of ****

 

[homeboy]

a piece of ****

...says "thepoopologist"...

 

[slick27]

yeah, well the "thepoopplogist" is making sense

 

[ChrisKnight]

Poop. My man. It's med school. You must have standards, and the default position should always be in favor of future patients. Period.

All I've heard Slick do is make excuses, and I hate when people make excuses.

Saying you didn't bomb any classes, only failed by a couple of percentage points means nothing. It's like saying you didn't chop off anyone's head, you just killed them by making a small drug error. No biggie, right?

And if you want anyone to be sympathetic towards your cause, you don't flippantly say you'll milk what may or may not be a LD for all it's worth.

Maybe Slick does have an LD, but to be honest, I doubt the entire suggestion of a LD in this case. Saying that the reason you failed out is that you have problems memorizing spoken language is laughable. Really. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Powerpoints, note services, and text books can more than supplement any deficiency in auditory processing. I'm sure his medical school is quite aware of this, and it may the reason for the dismissal.

It sounds more like Slick couldn't handle med school. And that's fine. Like others have said, it's not an innate skill. There's no shame in failing out of medical school. There is shame, however, in not being honest with yourself.

 

[Rollo]

^^ Yep, completely agree with what ChrisKnight said.

This is one of those situations where the system caught somebody who shouldn't make it through.

 

[futIDdoc]

so slick, when patients talk to you, are you going to have trouble processing what they say? Perhaps a powerpoint practice with a note taking service? Agree with chrisknight, you may have an LD (which is nothing to be ashamed of), but if you cannot process auditory information, medicine is probably not your bag. Medical training is not "everybody gets a trophy day." If you repeatedly fail to meet standards, you need to be culled.

 

[slick27]

Poop. My man. It's med school. You must have standards, and the default position should always be in favor of future patients. Period.

All I've heard Slick do is make excuses, and I hate when people make excuses.

Saying you didn't bomb any classes, only failed by a couple of percentage points means nothing. It's like saying you didn't chop off anyone's head, you just killed them by making a small drug error. No biggie, right?

And if you want anyone to be sympathetic towards your cause, you don't flippantly say you'll milk what may or may not be a LD for all it's worth.

Maybe Slick does have an LD, but to be honest, I doubt the entire suggestion of a LD in this case. Saying that the reason you failed out is that you have problems memorizing spoken language is laughable. Really. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Powerpoints, note services, and text books can more than supplement any deficiency in auditory processing. I'm sure his medical school is quite aware of this, and it may the reason for the dismissal.

It sounds more like Slick couldn't handle med school. And that's fine. Like others have said, it's not an innate skill. There's no shame in failing out of medical school. There is shame, however, in not being honest with yourself.

I was unaware of my learning issues prior to being tested. With my new information, I would attack medical school differently. I would not attend class, and receive written transcription of lectures. Granted, I don't know if this new plan of attack would change the outcome of my struggles in medical school, but it would give me the best chance at success.

I basically didn't like the way my school handled the situation. I wish I would have had this testing prior to me being dismissed.

 

[slick27]

so slick, when patients talk to you, are you going to have trouble processing what they say? Perhaps a powerpoint practice with a note taking service? Agree with chrisknight, you may have an LD (which is nothing to be ashamed of), but if you cannot process auditory information, medicine is probably not your bag. Medical training is not "everybody gets a trophy day." If you repeatedly fail to meet standards, you need to be culled.

I never said that I cannot fully process auditory information. I do struggle with oral interaction, but i have learned to compensate to some degree.