"Everyone at ACEP is a CMG shill." Proof?

[AlmostAnMD]

I've been hearing forever that all of the leadership at ACEP is just a shill for CMG's, etc. Logically, they'd also be staffed at CMG sites (versus SDG/hospital employment, etc). Since they're public figures driving our future this information shouldn't be anonymous at all. However it's impossible for me to tell which sites are CMG sites. The purpose of this isn't to "shame" or "out," it's for us to know who is holding the keys.

So my question is, how many of these are really "CMG shills?" Which ones are primarily working at, for example, TeamHealth sites?

Mark Rosenberg - President
St. Joseph's Health. Patterson, NJ

Gillian Schmitz - President-Elect
Brooke Army Medical Center/Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences/University of Texas Health.
Most of those seem legit

Christopher Kang - Chair of the board
Madigan Army Medical Center. Tacoma, WA/Olympia Emergency Physicians, LLC/Providence St. Peter Hospital, Olympia WA.
Seems like army/SDG?

Alison Haddock - vice president
Baylor college of medicine, houston.
Seems like academics. One step below CMG but not as good as having SDG peeps imo

Aisha Terry - Secretary treasurer
george washington university
more academics

William Jaquis - immediate past president
Senior vice president, Envision health/Aventura medical center, FL
SHILL! At least one so far.

Board members

Anthony Cirillo
US acute care solutions
Another shill

John Finnell
Indiana university

Jeffrey Goodloe
Hillcrest medical center

Gabor Kelen
Johns Hopkins Emergency Medicine Services, LLC
SDG?

James Shoemaker
Elite Emergency Physicians, Inc

Ryan Stanton
Central Emergency Physicians

Arvind Venkat -- only board member not riding the old white man train, btw
Allegheny Health Network-- USACS


Off the bat, I only see two people that absolutely shouldn't be there. I can't comment on most of the rest. Anyone know?

EDIT: Now 3

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Rekt]

Proof?

The fact that ACEP has done absolutely nothing for the past 15-20 years to stop the hostile takeover of emergency medicine and the now flooding of the market by CMCs is the proof.

 

[deleted941485]

Looks like a zombie organization at this point

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Proof?

The fact that ACEP has done absolutely nothing for the past 15-20 years to stop the hostile takeover of emergency medicine and the now flooding of the market by CMCs is the proof.

Oh, I wasn't arguing at all the organization is in any way useful. I'm just trying to see how many of them directly receive money from CMGs. I am very, very anti-ACEP but I'm just trying to be objective about their leadership.

 

[RustedFox]

But Rosenberg is quoted as saying that he "doesn't know what a CMG is".

If true, ignorant of the situation.
If false, a very deliberate lie.

 

[Birdstrike]

Scenario:

You're an ER doc that hates CMGs. You work for the last SDG in town. All the others within a two hour drive have been taken over by CMGs. Without warning, your group loses it's contract. You're given the choice to be either unemployed or work for the CMG. Out of desperation you choose to work for the CMG, until you can make other plans. Finding a new non-CMG job turns out much harder than you hoped and your tenure with the CMG drags on longer than you hoped.

Are you now a "CMG shill"?

 

[AlmostAnMD]

If you're on ACEPs board

yes

No one forced them to do that. To clarify, you're describing a hostage, not a shill.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I've been hearing forever that all of the leadership at ACEP is just a shill for CMG's, etc. Logically, they'd also be staffed at CMG sites (versus SDG/hospital employment, etc). Since they're public figures driving our future this information shouldn't be anonymous at all. However it's impossible for me to tell which sites are CMG sites. The purpose of this isn't to "shame" or "out," it's for us to know who is holding the keys.

So my question is, how many of these are really "CMG shills?" Which ones are primarily working at, for example, TeamHealth sites?

Mark Rosenberg - President
St. Joseph's Health. Patterson, NJ

Gillian Schmitz - President-Elect
Brooke Army Medical Center/Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences/University of Texas Health.
Most of those seem legit

Christopher Kang - Chair of the board
Madigan Army Medical Center. Tacoma, WA/Olympia Emergency Physicians, LLC/Providence St. Peter Hospital, Olympia WA.
Seems like army/SDG?

Alison Haddock - vice president
Baylor college of medicine, houston.
Seems like academics. One step below CMG but not as good as having SDG peeps imo

Aisha Terry - Secretary treasurer
george washington university
more academics

William Jaquis - immediate past president
Senior vice president, Envision health/Aventura medical center, FL
SHILL! At least one so far.

Board members

Anthony Cirillo
US acute care solutions
Another shill

John Finnell
Indiana university

Jeffrey Goodloe
Hillcrest medical center

Gabor Kelen
Johns Hopkins Emergency Medicine Services, LLC
SDG?

James Shoemaker
Elite Emergency Physicians, Inc

Ryan Stanton
Central Emergency Physicians

Arvind Venkat -- only board member not riding the old white man train, btw
Allegheny Health Network


Off the bat, I only see two people that absolutely shouldn't be there. I can't comment on most of the rest. Anyone know?

For the last one on the list, AGH is a USACS hospital.

 

[Birdstrike]

If you're on ACEPs board

yes

No one forced them to do that. To clarify, you're describing a hostage, not a shill.

To be clear, I wasn't defending any of the CMG shills. My point is, the CMGs have taken a lot of hostages. And sometimes hostages start to do and say what their captors want them to do and say, which makes it hard to tell the difference.

 

[deleted77919]

…

 

[GeneralVeers]

With apologies to The Undiscovered Country:

I've never trusted CMGs, and I never will. I could never forgive them for the death of my specialty.

Your statement indicts you. The sentence of death is commuted though. I'm going to banish you to Rura Penthe

 

[Birdstrike]

Your statement indicts you. The sentence of death is commuted though. I'm going to banish you to Rura Penthe

Oh, the movie quotes!

 

[bravotwozero]

Your statement indicts you. The sentence of death is commuted though. I'm going to banish you to Rura Penthe

aka freestanding EDs...

kidding.

 

[GeneralVeers]

aka freestanding EDs...

kidding.

Basically true. One of the FSEDs I've been banished to has all of the volume of the mothership, but none of the pay.

 

[Birdstrike]

When you make the decision to sell your soul and go from regular human status to CMG shill, how much does it pay? $10,000 more per year, $100,000 more? Same?

Any idea?

 

[goodoldalky]

This discussion has more to do with the flow of money than the clinical jobs these people have. ACEP has had its hands in the pockets of all CMGs for a long time now, and positions that would be harmful to CMGs are crushed behind closed doors under the power of the almighty CMG dollar.

That’s what really makes acep ineffective.

 

[Birdstrike]

This discussion has more to do with the flow of money than the clinical jobs these people have. ACEP has had its hands in the pockets of all CMGs for a long time now, and positions that would be harmful to CMGs are crushed behind closed doors under the power of the almighty CMG dollar.

That’s what really makes acep ineffective.

"Hands in the pockets" is the definition of . . . ?

 

[RustedFox]

In other words, bribes.

#Birdstruck.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Oh, I wasn't arguing at all the organization is in any way useful. I'm just trying to see how many of them directly receive money from CMGs. I am very, very anti-ACEP but I'm just trying to be objective about their leadership.

I dont think just working for a CMG makes you a shill. It is a requirement for many due to both no SDG job availability and lack of SDG options.

Re those on the list however you have people who have ascended the CMG hierarchy.

Jaquis is a VP of some sort, Cirillo is a national VP of advocacy (vomit) for USACS and apparently really hates EM docs and wants 100% CMG staffing, Venkat is also a USACS leader. I can forgive anyone for working for a CMG but becoming a leader of said CMG means you are working to make the company better and stronger (no conspiracy theories here).

Oh and of the last few ACEP presidents Friedman (team Health VP of governmental something or other), Parker (also a VP at Emcare), Rodgers (who never got to sit because the wisdom On the ACEP councilors was that in this day and age someone who didnt train in EM should be president of ACEP, is a Emcare guy who also has some VP/director title). THis is just one of the reasons. Kivela was with an SDG but now is in academics. Don’t know the story there.

Rosenberg is a clown and out of touch. He thinks the future of EM is so bright that we can do non EM jobs.

 

[DeadCactus]

I don't see the utility in this exercise. Plenty of turds towing the party line from prestigious academic institutions. Plenty of turds reaping the benefits of partnership while churning and burning new grads in "democratic groups" but praising themselves for not being ACEP members. Plenty of people just trying to pay off their loans and provide for their family while working for a CMG.

ACEP is labelled a shill for the CMG because of their policies for the past few decades and their history of being entwined with these entities. The leaders are labelled shills because part of leadership is taking responsibility and ownership of the entity you're leading.

I personally don't believe ACEP is intentionally a shill organization for CMGs. I think it fell into being a shill because the people who tend to obtain these positions are not part of the typical job pool and the struggles of average emergency physicians are foreign and unknown to them. I think this was exacerbated by the fact that the primary goal of any organization is going to inherently be self-propagation and the money these large CMGs can offer for parties, conferences, member benefits, courses, and advocacy help the organization endure, grow, and increase revenue.

 

[Birdstrike]

I don't see the utility in this exercise. Plenty of turds towing the party line from prestigious academic institutions. Plenty of turds reaping the benefits of partnership while churning and burning new grads in "democratic groups" but praising themselves for not being ACEP members. Plenty of people just trying to pay off their loans and provide for their family while working for a CMG.

ACEP is labelled a shill for the CMG because of their policies for the past few decades and their history of being entwined with these entities. The leaders are labelled shills because part of leadership is taking responsibility and ownership of the entity you're leading.

I personally don't believe ACEP is intentionally a shill organization for CMGs. I think it fell into being a shill because the people who tend to obtain these positions are not part of the typical job pool and the struggles of average emergency physicians are foreign and unknown to them. I think this was exacerbated by the fact that the primary goal of any organization is going to inherently be self-propagation and the money these large CMGs can offer for parties, conferences, member benefits, courses, and advocacy help the organization endure, grow, and increase revenue.

No one despises EM and it’s day to day practice more than those who seek out CMG, administrative and society leadership positions. Choosing those jobs is a way to mask their dislike for day to day EM shift work with a veneer of “advocacy.”

The one thing all those positions have in common is a lot less shifts in the ED. It’s a helluva lot easier to tell those lies about how great working in the ED us and will be, if you hardly ever have to do it, isn’t it? It becomes someone else’s problem, and that someone else is someone they don’t view as an equal, but as an underling.

 

[Birdstrike]

Another classic EM recruiting lie:

“In EM, once you finish residency, on day #1 you and everyone else are equal.”

Not true.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Another classic EM recruiting lie:

“In EM, once you finish residency, on day #1 you and everyone else are equal.”

Not true.

I supposedly belong to an equal and democratic group. Except that the guys who've been thee 20 years get a defined benefit plan that was grandfathered in, while the rest of us don't even get an employer 401K contribution. I get to work crappy shifts at our undesirable locations, while the old guys get to pick their shifts and where they work. The rules are unwritten, and no one knows how I can get favored status. Very equal and fair

 

[EctopicFetus]

I don't see the utility in this exercise. Plenty of turds towing the party line from prestigious academic institutions. Plenty of turds reaping the benefits of partnership while churning and burning new grads in "democratic groups" but praising themselves for not being ACEP members. Plenty of people just trying to pay off their loans and provide for their family while working for a CMG.

ACEP is labelled a shill for the CMG because of their policies for the past few decades and their history of being entwined with these entities. The leaders are labelled shills because part of leadership is taking responsibility and ownership of the entity you're leading.

I personally don't believe ACEP is intentionally a shill organization for CMGs. I think it fell into being a shill because the people who tend to obtain these positions are not part of the typical job pool and the struggles of average emergency physicians are foreign and unknown to them. I think this was exacerbated by the fact that the primary goal of any organization is going to inherently be self-propagation and the money these large CMGs can offer for parties, conferences, member benefits, courses, and advocacy help the organization endure, grow, and increase revenue.

I will say that most of the bad democratic groups are gone. Can you point out any current democratic gropups that churn and burn new grads. This is a fairly anonymous forum and most of us speak the gods honest truth. Let’s name names it would be a service to all.

from 2014-2019 was the heyday of groups selling out. The good groups held on due to belief it could be better. I dont know of any SDGs who weren’t at least offered the chance to sell. Hell, you can go to American physician partners and there is a link on their homepage to sell your group today.

ACEP is lost, it will never recover and the damage to its brand is permanent. In my opinion this isnt great but right now with all respect to AAEM we have no trusted organization to fix things. I know AAEM is working on it but unless something meaningful comes out of their work and they can rally membership they will be also rans and the field of EM will be a wayward boat in the ocean of corporate medicine.

 

[Birdstrike]

I will say that most of the bad democratic groups are gone. Can you point out any current democratic gropups that churn and burn new grads. This is a fairly anonymous forum and most of us speak the gods honest truth. Let’s name names it would be a service to all.

from 2014-2019 was the heyday of groups selling out. The good groups held on due to belief it could be better. I dont know of any SDGs who weren’t at least offered the chance to sell. Hell, you can go to American physician partners and there is a link on their homepage to sell your group today.

ACEP is lost, it will never recover and the damage to its brand is permanent. In my opinion this isnt great but right now with all respect to AAEM we have no trusted organization to fix things. I know AAEM is working on it but unless something meaningful comes out of their work and they can rally membership they will be also rans and the field of EM will be a wayward boat in the ocean of corporate medicine.

The only leverage EM physician have is to work, or not to work, as a group. They laugh at anything else. Once they see you've walked in the door and have shown up to work, they smile and know they've won. Anything else is viewed as laughable wimpery, Mr. Rogers kind of stuff, by the Henchmen of Healthcare. I'm not saying you all should go on strike. In fact, I'm saying you should not. However, that is the only thing that will work. All other leverage has been lost or given away.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I dont think just working for a CMG makes you a shill. It is a requirement for many due to both no SDG job availability and lack of SDG options.

Re those on the list however you have people who have ascended the CMG hierarchy.

Jaquis is a VP of some sort, Cirillo is a national VP of advocacy (vomit) for USACS and apparently really hates EM docs and wants 100% CMG staffing, Venkat is also a USACS leader. I can forgive anyone for working for a CMG but becoming a leader of said CMG means you are working to make the company better and stronger (no conspiracy theories here).

Oh and of the last few ACEP presidents Friedman (team Health VP of governmental something or other), Parker (also a VP at Emcare), Rodgers (who never got to sit because the wisdom On the ACEP councilors was that in this day and age someone who didnt train in EM should be president of ACEP, is a Emcare guy who also has some VP/director title). THis is just one of the reasons. Kivela was with an SDG but now is in academics. Don’t know the story there.

Rosenberg is a clown and out of touch. He thinks the future of EM is so bright that we can do non EM jobs.

I remember meeting Cirillo circa 2016 when he told me how dumb I was for working for [insert interchangable CMG here] for $100/hr more than what USACS was offering because #ownershipmatters. I still cant believe they got people hooked with that nonsense.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I remember meeting Cirillo circa 2016 when he told me how dumb I was for working for [insert interchangable CMG here] for $100/hr more than what USACS was offering because #ownershipmatters. I still cant believe they got people hooked with that nonsense.

Cirillo hates EM docs. Unsure if he has Stockholm syndrome or is just such a dildo he believes his own poo doesnt stink. USACS is the worst cause they sell the lie and many of their cronies seemingly believe their drivel.

 

[Birdstrike]

I remember meeting Cirillo circa 2016 when he told me how dumb I was for working for [insert interchangable CMG here] for $100/hr more than what USACS was offering because #ownershipmatters. I still cant believe they got people hooked with that nonsense.

What % of USACS does he own?

 

[EctopicFetus]

What % of USACS does he own?

L. Anthony Cirillo | USACS

L. Anthony Cirillo, MD, FACEP, is a practicing emergency physician and serves as the Director of Government Affairs for USACS. Learn more.

www.usacs.com

I think he makes a ton doing non clinical work. This allows him to look down on the worker bees. Note that ACEP helped set up EMPI (go look up this pay for play nonsense). He makes a bunch of money pimping out young ignorant docs.

 

[RustedFox]

L. Anthony Cirillo | USACS

L. Anthony Cirillo, MD, FACEP, is a practicing emergency physician and serves as the Director of Government Affairs for USACS. Learn more.

www.usacs.com

I think he makes a ton doing non clinical work. This allows him to look down on the worker bees. Note that ACEP helped set up EMPI (go look up this pay for play nonsense). He makes a bunch of money pimping out young ignorant docs.

These "non-docs" in leadership are the worst.
One of the guys that I worked with at my very first job out of residency used to be such a CMG-hating maverick.
Then, he pulled a total Judas on us, and took some admin jobs where he sits on his ass and works on his in-stent restenosis all day, probably making more money.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I met Tony a ton of times. With USACS he does most of the "advocacy" and legislative stuff.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I met Tony a ton of times. With USACS he does most of the "advocacy" and legislative stuff.

And making bank and im sure he pulls a pretty penny from EMPI. He loathes EPs and thinks we are a bunch of idiots who should swoon at the PE gods and those like him and DBag.

 

[southerndoc]

And making bank and im sure he pulls a pretty penny from EMPI. He loathes EPs and thinks we are a bunch of idiots who should swoon at the PE gods and those like him and DBag.

How can an EP loathe an EP?

 

[GeneralVeers]

Tony seemed like a super happy cheerful guy. Though who wouldn't when you no longer work clinical shifts, make 500K, and get to go to multiple free fancy dinners/wine tastings per week.

 

[EctopicFetus]

How can an EP loathe an EP?

The same way a boss loathes their underlings. Its poor form but it exists.

 

[RuralEDDoc]

Does this thread violate TOS? Seems more than a little slanderous. Or is it libel? Don’t know, I’m not a CMG shill.

 

[EctopicFetus]

See my other response. When working for a CMG requires acep membership dont u think there is a coi. Shadiness personified.

 

[southerndoc]

Are they paying for the ACEP membership?

 

[GeneralVeers]

Are they paying for the ACEP membership?

Of course not but you can take it out of your "CME money". My current one requests we join ACEP but I Ignore stupid mandates.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Are they paying for the ACEP membership?

I’ll see if I can find it but it mandates membership. Bunch of bs.

 

[bravotwozero]

I just signed on with envision and nobody is making me get an ACEP membership.

 

[GatorCHOMPions]

I've been hearing forever that all of the leadership at ACEP is just a shill for CMG's, etc. Logically, they'd also be staffed at CMG sites (versus SDG/hospital employment, etc). Since they're public figures driving our future this information shouldn't be anonymous at all. However it's impossible for me to tell which sites are CMG sites. The purpose of this isn't to "shame" or "out," it's for us to know who is holding the keys.

So my question is, how many of these are really "CMG shills?" Which ones are primarily working at, for example, TeamHealth sites?

Mark Rosenberg - President
St. Joseph's Health. Patterson, NJ

Now Past President, but this post didn’t age well with respect to Rosenberg. St. Joseph’s is now having ApolloMD staff their ED. It used to be hospital employed up until a little while ago.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Now Past President, but this post didn’t age well with respect to Rosenberg. St. Joseph’s is now having ApolloMD staff their ED. It used to be hospital employed up until a little while ago.

Anyone with common sense sees what a idiotic joke acep is. Drop your membership if you have been too stupid to do it before now. I was reading how they are robo calling people to attend the scientific assembly. I hope no one shows. On top of that on my recent trip to SF it’s become so much worse than it was. A freaking ghost town and the homeless situation is way worse than before (when it was already really bad).

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

Per the most recent ACEP rag in my email, their president-elect candidate is exactly who you would expect based on the current social media climate within EM and really the entire profession of EM.

A "diverse" appearing candidate who is running unopposed who thinks the biggest problem within EM is its "divisiveness." Great, let's spend the minimal amount of resources that ACEP has on trying to herd ER docs to agree on matters that, while important, mean nothing if we don't even have a steady stream of reimbursement, the ability to practice autonomously, or protection from economies of scale/private equity.

 

[Rekt]

Per the most recent ACEP rag in my email, their president-elect candidate is exactly who you would expect based on the current social media climate within EM and really the entire profession of EM.

A "diverse" appearing candidate who is running unopposed who thinks the biggest problem within EM is its "divisiveness." Great, let's spend the minimal amount of resources that ACEP has on trying to herd ER docs to agree on matters that, while important, mean nothing if we don't even have a steady stream of reimbursement, the ability to practice autonomously, or protection from economies of scale/private equity.

Why spend time on real issues when it's minimal effort to post something on Facebook or Twitter about how woke ACEP is.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Per the most recent ACEP rag in my email, their president-elect candidate is exactly who you would expect based on the current social media climate within EM and really the entire profession of EM.

A "diverse" appearing candidate who is running unopposed who thinks the biggest problem within EM is its "divisiveness." Great, let's spend the minimal amount of resources that ACEP has on trying to herd ER docs to agree on matters that, while important, mean nothing if we don't even have a steady stream of reimbursement, the ability to practice autonomously, or protection from economies of scale/private equity.

Any reason in particular that her being "'diverse' appearing" is a problem? If it's not a problem, why list it among your other criticisms?

 

[EctopicFetus]

Per the most recent ACEP rag in my email, their president-elect candidate is exactly who you would expect based on the current social media climate within EM and really the entire profession of EM.

A "diverse" appearing candidate who is running unopposed who thinks the biggest problem within EM is its "divisiveness." Great, let's spend the minimal amount of resources that ACEP has on trying to herd ER docs to agree on matters that, while important, mean nothing if we don't even have a steady stream of reimbursement, the ability to practice autonomously, or protection from economies of scale/private equity.

Divisiveness about private equity is bad for acep since they are in bed with CMGs and people understanding that is bad for their membership. They have no interest in fighting CPOM or real issues.
instead this dude who got elected is a passive beta (from what I hear) and will tow the party line. The titanic is sinking but it’s cool cause acep is the choir.

 

[RustedFox]

Any reason in particular that her being "'diverse' appearing" is a problem? If it's not a problem, why list it among your other criticisms?

Because identity politics is dumb and just makes people who can think, angry.

The idea that you have to tick the "diversity?" box to be electable is world-class dumb... but this is ACEP, who has the market in "dumb" cornered.

We're all sick of being told that it matters, somehow. It's insulting to everyone, but still undeniably there.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Because identity politics is dumb and just makes people who can think, angry.

The idea that you have to tick the "diversity?" box to be electable is world-class dumb... but this is ACEP, who has the market in "dumb" cornered.

We're all sick of being told that it matters, somehow. It's insulting to everyone, but still undeniably there.

Is it not identity politics on your part to assume that this person was chosen because she "[ticked] the 'diversity?' box to be electable"?

How can someone who looks like her be chosen in a way that is palatable to you? After all, she can't change her physical characteristics.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Lord, here we go.