Can anybody comment on the typical week or month of an ER doctor? What days do you work, when do shifts start/end, what days do you have off? Id love to see a calendar for a month in an ED and see who's working when. anyone has something like that?
Is it possible to work at a hospital only on the weekdays, and not weekends?
Does every EM physcian have to work on the weekends or holidays?
Is it possible to work at a hospital only on the weekdays, and not weekends?
Does every EM physcian have to work on the weekends or holidays?
If you do 8s, 1/3 are morning, 1/3 are afternoon, 1/3 are nights. .
I work 100-144 hours a month. I have partners than work as little at 50. Some of my partners work no nights, but everyone works weekends and holidays.
Here's my October Schedule
1 Off
2 Off
3 7pm-3am
4 Off (recovering)
5 Off
6 6a-2p
7 Off
8 2p-10p
9 2p-10 p
10 10p-6a
11 Off (recovering)
12 Meetings 9a-1p
13 6a-2p
14 off
15 Off
16 11a-7p
17 7p-3a
18 7p-3a
19 7p-3a
20 off (recovering)
21 off
22 off
23 2p-10p
24 off
25 off
26 11a-7p
27 10p-6a
28 off (recovering)
29 off
30 7p-3a
31 7p-3a
Total: 15 shifts, 120 hours + ~10 hours total staying late finishing up + 4 hours unpaid meetings
There are worse ways to earn a living. But don't discount the cost of those "recovery" days.
How do you deal with your family on the recovery days, i.e. do they leave you alone more or are you constantly doing things with/for them even though in a sleep deprived haze?
Get yourself a stay at home mom. Tell her if the kids get near you you might kill one. Try not to be too grouchy after you get up. It helps if you do all your chores the day before before going in for the overnight shift.
I still don't understand a "recovery day." Does this occur after 2-3 consecutive shifts or after a late night shift?
Next time you have 4-5 days off... stay up all night for three of those and play Wii and watch movies. Try going to bed at 7AM...make sure to get up later in the day and do it again that night.
Do this three nights and see how you feel going into the fourth where you are now 'off'.
It will suck a bit...and remember you laid in a bean bag chair watching movies which is a bit different than what you would be doing on a shift...
It will take a day or two before you are back 'normal'.... I hear it only gets worse as you get older.
In the schedule listed above, there are a lot of night shifts, which I assume might be a preference.
I was interested in the 10/12 shifts that I have seen in various job listings that usually start at 6 am. In addition to a few night and weekend calls, will there be a lot of recovery time? Most of the shifts would be during the daytime.
Agreed, thanks for posting schedules.You guys posting your shift schedules has been extremely insightful and helpful. Thank you!
In the schedule listed above, there are a lot of night shifts, which I assume might be a preference.
I was interested in the 10/12 shifts that I have seen in various job listings that usually start at 6 am. In addition to a few night and weekend calls, will there be a lot of recovery time? Most of the shifts would be during the daytime.
This is kind of funny.
This is the second time you've asked if EM can have a day shift schedule like an 8-5pm job M-F (or possibly you are trying to say 6-3pm).
Anything is possible, but to assume that EPs are preferring to work overnight instead of working a M-F day shifts is pretty comical. Have you never heard that EM has to cover over night and work weekends/holidays typically? When do you think more people are willing to work, overnight, weekends, holidays or M-F day shifts?
I'm only a medical student, but I think the attending would back me up in saying, if you want to work M-F day shifts then EM is probably not the best specialty to chose.
One thing I learned from this thread is that I am working too damned hard. Twelve 8s a month? I am scheduled for 16 10 hour shifts this month, not counting meetings, etc. No wonder I'm so tired...
The opinions on this thread have shown me that many work late shifts.
Asking a question two times is to get more opinions, aka bumping the thread.
We're trying to lay it out there - these hours need to be covered, and if you're in EM, you'll do your fair share of it. (not speaking to 'you' - i mean the general 'you.')
PS: Grumpy & nauseated is the best description of the post-overnight experience I've ever read.
I worked nights for 6 years before starting college, then worked nights for my first three years of college. Aside from the last three where I was working full-time and school full-time (hated life), I loved working nights. I thrived.
I have no doubt I will be "that night guy".
You're still gonna have those grumpy days unless you work every day, in which case you'd be pretty grumpy anyway.It doesn't seem like that bad of an option.
No grumpy days and consistent circadian rhythm.
It doesn't seem like that bad of an option.
No grumpy days and consistent circadian rhythm.
So... on the days you are off (about 15-20/month), would you still stay up all night and sleep during the day?
So... on the days you are off (about 15-20/month), would you still stay up all night and sleep during the day?
That's what I do. (What I'm doing right now - it's before 8am in Hawai'i.)
150 is considerably less than 120?Wait, I'm a little confused. Maybe it's because I'm still in my early 20's...I start med school next year and am hoping to go into EM (I have worked in an ED since I was 18), and I'm currently in school full time (16 hrs) at a competitive undergrad. I work ~150 hrs (7p-7a) per month and am in school (day time hours) 2 days/wk for 19 hrs/wk. I don't mind the work at all (and 150 hours is considerably less than 120).
What's with the exhaustion/complaints with working so much? I switch from day to night shift all the time (sleep schedule wise) and while I have to sometimes take an ambien, I don't mind it. I can't imagine just working and not having school...I'd be bored.
Is this just an age thing? Or is it an "I've worked my ***** off through residency and get killed at work, so it takes a lot out of me?" Just curious what I'm in for, I guess... in my mind, it doesn't seem too shabby.
MCAT: BS 7, PS 8, VR 10, R
Overall GPA: 3.49
Science GPA: 3.30
Those stats are very mediocre, so I guess school is pretty easy when all you are getting is mostly B's. I'm sure most of us who've made it into medical school could have skated by with a 3.3 sGPA without studying at all, except the night before the exam. UG even with a 4.0 was easy, UG with a 3.3 is vacation.
This is getting a little uncomfortable here.... who's to say how hard someone worked for where they are? I always agreed with that phrase that says, "Your circumstances in life are half luck. So are everybody else's."
To answer the original question, I don't know that people are complaining about being exhausted by the work schedule so much as the days after a night shift. I think that's inevitable. I think the main point we're trying to drive home is that the EM lifestyle isn't necessarily cush, and that it's hard to join on working no nights or weekends.
Wait, I'm a little confused. Maybe it's because I'm still in my early 20's...I start med school next year and am hoping to go into EM (I have worked in an ED since I was 18), and I'm currently in school full time (16 hrs) at a competitive undergrad. I work ~150 hrs (7p-7a) per month and am in school (day time hours) 2 days/wk for 19 hrs/wk. I don't mind the work at all (and 150 hours is considerably less than 120). What's with the exhaustion/complaints with working so much? I switch from day to night shift all the time (sleep schedule wise) and while I have to sometimes take an ambien, I don't mind it. I can't imagine just working and not having school...I'd be bored.
Is this just an age thing? Or is it an "I've worked my ***** off through residency and get killed at work, so it takes a lot out of me?" Just curious what I'm in for, I guess... in my mind, it doesn't seem too shabby.
Come on, there's no need for you guys to be so mean about it. She asked a question because she's young and she doesn't have any experience with being in med school or residency; she didn't insult you and your mother. Give her a break.
I Hate My Schedule
"The only reason I'm coming out here tomorrow is the schedule says I have to."
-Sparky Anderson
This was my first week back in the ED, and I'd be lying if I said that I was sorry to be done with OB. Yeah, ok, I have to admit that the OB rotation wasn't as bad as I expected. But it still wasn't my idea of fun, either. I also have to admit that working two weeks of night float wasn't as bad as I expected, and I even felt pretty well adjusted to the schedule by the end of last week. So why, then, am I so annoyed about the fact that I had to work nights in the ED this whole week?
I don't really have a logical answer to that question. On the surface, it seems like I should be happier with my schedule. I am working fewer hours (11-12 hours per shift instead of 13-14 hours), and fewer days (4-5 days per week instead of 5-6 days). But somehow, I'm grumpier about it anyway. Maybe it's because the work is much more stressful and intense. Maybe it's because I feel like I'm expected to love it. Or maybe it's because I know that some other people aren't working as many overnights as I am.
Ah, yes, that is the key sticking point. When everyone is working the same overnight schedule as a team, there is a sense of camaraderie born out of shared misery. But when you know that you're working twice as many overnights as one of your fellow interns, suddenly it makes your schedule seem relatively a lot worse, even though it's better in absolute terms. I do feel a little bad about almost biting someone's head off for commenting that it seems like I'm always working nights. But really, I don't need anyone else's sympathy, because I feel sorry enough for myself.
The thing is, everyone hates their schedule. We all feel like we work too many hours. We all wish we had fewer night shifts or morning shifts or afternoon shifts, depending on which one is burning us out the most at the moment. (Personally, I wish I had fewer of all three types of shifts!) We all have a block or two where we get shafted, but other blocks where we come out ahead. And in spite of my pity party about having so many night shifts, there is a significant bright side: I have two fewer shifts overall for the month than the other intern who is working fewer overnights has. Well, when I look at it that way, maybe my schedule isn't quite so bad after all....
I know I'm going to regret bothering to get into this debate with you, but I will anyway. Yes, you were hard on her. It's jerky to post someone's stats from her MDApps and call her out because of them when she's asking an honest question.I don't think I was hard on her. My single point is that you should be doing well at something before telling everyone that it's easy or a light workload.
She wasn't asking you; she was asking people who are working as EPs. You're two months into your M1 year. That means you have exactly two months more experience with medical school than she has, and you yourself have no idea how hard or easy most of medical school is going to be! And how do you know that being a physician is so hard? It's not like you've ever been one. What would you say if I told you that being a resident is easier than being a med student? Because in certain ways, it is. Since you like reading my blog, go back a few entries to the one where I talked about why my residency OB rotation was better than my med school OB rotation was, and there's an example. As another example, it's also nice to be paid for what you do rather than borrowing money and watching your debt go higher and higher.The question was, "why does it not seem so bad?" And the answer is because UG / easy jobs are... easy. Med school / being a physician is hard.
I'm finding it funny that the people who are getting all bent out of shape about a pre-med asking why working overnights is harder than it seems are med students, but the people who are actually working this schedule aren't insulted by it.Edit: I found it funny reading your response to her, then reading your current blog entry: