Looks like Envision lost the lucrative contract at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek CA.
Lost or dropped?
My guess is someone came in and offered to do it for less money...they won't be able to staff it and survive on locums for a few months until it all blows up.
Happening all over as the market adjusts
Vituity
Are you kidding me? Vituity can't even staff its own sites, lolVituity
Many of the current anesthesiologists will choose to stay. Envision has no work for them. It is a desirable area and recruiting will not be as challenging. Vituity has a good reputation.Are you kidding me? Vituity can't even staff its own sites, lol
Many of the current anesthesiologists will choose to stay. Envision has no work for them. It is a desirable area and recruiting will not be as challenging. Vituity has a good reputation.
That would be ideal for the doctors if they don’t have noncompete issues.
How do you know the cut is 35%? Just curious the source of this informationThe Envision 35% of the top cut of revenue is no longer sustainable. Even in excellent payor mix regions.
The courts have struck that down.That would be ideal for the doctors if they don’t have noncompete issues.
20k pre or post tax? 20k post tax take home pay seems pretty decent to me.Who didn't see this coming. After Envision took its cut they were the lowest paid Anesthesiologists in the area. Pure W2, only 19k 401k and if I remember correctly they said most were taking home 20k a month or something like that. Should make more now with a different contract hopefully or more will leave.
It's a big group, productivity based. Covered a lot of sites. There's folks who made 400k, there's folks who made in the 700s. Depends on the work20k pre or post tax? 20k post tax take home pay seems pretty decent to me.
Vituity has a good reputation.
taking home 20k a month or something like that
Sounds like Envision is no longer in the Bay Area. Good riddance.
Vituity's reputation might not be as bad as Envision's (emphasis on *might*), but it's terrible, all the same.
If envisions cut off the top is 30% (as suggested) plus costs they really are in trouble.
They covered a few hospitals in indiana back when I worked there and they were always chronically understaffed and couldn’t make anything work…. But then were weirdly picky about who they hired or made the whole interview process extremely difficult… for permanent or locums. (We used some locums people that had tried them and had similar experiences to that above).
With phymed out, envision next, Napa limping along for now - USAP seems to be in a pretty good spot right now. I know people like to bash USAP but I can’t get any first hand knowledge or anything concrete out of anyone about USAP really “going down” in any place.
MAC/Envision is done w John Muir, San Ramon and Pleasanton Valley Care hospital.
They have several ascs with good payor mix in the Bay Area But John Muir was the big cash cow. Envision corporate overhear will need to shrink to account for that.
I think their days are outnumbered in that region. Fancy business talk and cool powepoints can only take you so far.
Vituity/CEP has had a long relationship with John Muir and dozens of other regional hospitals. Hospital Administration and Physicians are happy. Physician owned and led. They are intrenched as major inpatient player in this area.
I was told that in the original deal envision was getting 50% of the MAC hospital stipends too.
Original partners sold to Sheridan. Payouts varied on seniority. Low to low mid 7 figures. Yes, part of stipends were deducted by Envision.
Current negotiations broke down bc Envision wanted mor hospital support. RFP came out to address this.
Hopefully most docs will stay and won’t have lives disrupted.
Does that mean MAC/Envision doctors at John Muir will become Vituity doctors?
False. I highly doubt anesthesiologists are signing contracts within one day of an announcement being made of a new group winning a bid. Contracts don't even exist at that point.Have a buddy involved in this. Some/many have already signed on with vituity to stay.
I’d be careful to promote usap. Like I stated several times. Most of usap contracts originally were cherry picking the top payor mixes from 2015-forward. This is how mednax (American anesthesiology) grew from 2007-2014. They stopped growing shortly after 2014 cause usap formed and took the remaking nicer contracts.If envisions cut off the top is 30% (as suggested) plus costs they really are in trouble.
They covered a few hospitals in indiana back when I worked there and they were always chronically understaffed and couldn’t make anything work…. But then were weirdly picky about who they hired or made the whole interview process extremely difficult… for permanent or locums. (We used some locums people that had tried them and had similar experiences to that above).
With phymed out, envision next, Napa limping along for now - USAP seems to be in a pretty good spot right now. I know people like to bash USAP but I can’t get any first hand knowledge or anything concrete out of anyone about USAP really “going down” in any place.
I’m not really selling USAP…. All I hear is rumors and conjecture.Wow Amyl selling the pyramid scheme of USAP. Hey don’t blame her -her stock will go up. Of all of these PE groups USAP was most intelligent in the groups they selected -strong economies, strong groups….but with those strong economies now comes insane cost of living increases and inflation for any non MD or non partner MD. Add no increases in rates per the NSA (rumor is USAP accepted a decrease in rate with United in some markets to pad the books for a stock sale). Also, as another person pointed out-USAP is in keep things good for as long as possible mode with #1>>>>#2
1. PE
2. mD partners
Rest of corporation taking a bath. USAP will be last man standing but they’ll lose some of their sites sooner than later and eventually fail (unless they find away to beat the no surprises act-which never say never, private equity are smart folks).
Denver?If envisions cut off the top is 30% (as suggested) plus costs they really are in trouble.
They covered a few hospitals in indiana back when I worked there and they were always chronically understaffed and couldn’t make anything work…. But then were weirdly picky about who they hired or made the whole interview process extremely difficult… for permanent or locums. (We used some locums people that had tried them and had similar experiences to that above).
With phymed out, envision next, Napa limping along for now - USAP seems to be in a pretty good spot right now. I know people like to bash USAP but I can’t get any first hand knowledge or anything concrete out of anyone about USAP really “going down” in any place.
What is now happening at some of the USAP divisions is that they are trying to negotiate revenue guarantee stipends with hospitals to bridge the gap in pay for their associates and partners. With the NSA, I think the writing is on the wall: the hospital will have to absorb the cost of anesthesia services and bring it in-house.I’d be careful to promote usap. Like I stated several times. Most of usap contracts originally were cherry picking the top payor mixes from 2015-forward. This is how mednax (American anesthesiology) grew from 2007-2014. They stopped growing shortly after 2014 cause usap formed and took the remaking nicer contracts.
So usap is falling right into almost the same time line as mednax’s American anesthesiology.
Usap is taking over scraps of contracts these days. There is little or zero room for growth. Most of their “new” contracts aren’t that desirable. My friends 30 year private contract in north east. My friend group actually abandoned the contract cause of hospital demands. Usap is learning the hard way with that contract. They tried to low ball remaining former partners but had to increase their initial pay. So the former partners are getting within 5% GUARANTEED of what they would normally make as private group.
Extremely little cost savings for usap. Add to usap having to pay the junior associates the same (100k) MORE than what they would have made in partnership track. I see very little or zero cost savings.
The numbers make no sense. Of course usap has got to have some side 3 year deal with hospital admin to subsidize any costs. Cause hospital admin fall for all that talk.
Usap is a well oil machine. But only so much you can do when the payor mix is less than 30% true non Medicare advantage commercial.
False. I highly doubt anesthesiologists are signing contracts within one day of an announcement being made of a new group winning a bid. Contracts don't even exist at that point.
Feel free to blow off my post, this is the internet. But if you want to believe me, like I said, I have a friend in the group who told me months ago about Envision losing the contract and many of his coworkers were going to stay at Muir working for vituity when the switch happened. As someone above pointed out, there are no non-competes enforceable in California. And if you think that someone working in said group was surprised by the change in management, you probably haven't been doing this very long.
which states are those? I know texas is one... just curious of the others. and who says these laws cant change going forwardNot all states allow anesthesiologists to be employed directly by the hospital.
not necessarily... as stated some states dont allow this as they think (rightly so) that it may compromise patient care and doctor objectivity. I have never ever had such pressure put on me to do an unsafe case as when I was a hospital employee. I was flatly told "we dont cancel cases here." surgeons bring money in and hospital admin sees nothing but $... they want anesthesiologist that keep the surgeons happy and that they don't hear about.What is now happening at some of the USAP divisions is that they are trying to negotiate revenue guarantee stipends with hospitals to bridge the gap in pay for their associates and partners. With the NSA, I think the writing is on the wall: the hospital will have to absorb the cost of anesthesia services and bring it in-house.
which states are those? I know texas is one... just curious of the others. and who says these laws cant change going forward
not necessarily... as stated some states dont allow this as they think (rightly so) that it may compromise patient care and doctor objectivity. I have never ever had such pressure put on me to do an unsafe case as when I was a hospital employee. I was flatly told "we dont cancel cases here." surgeons bring money in and hospital admin sees nothing but $... they want anesthesiologist that keep the surgeons happy and that they don't hear about.
The value of good arbitration is yet to be seen with the NSA... maybe it will matter... maybe it won't. It may be worth it to the hospital to have a large group with some leverage -like USAP - to handle this for them.