Enquiries

[Felixayariga]

Please I need an honest guidance as to medical school. I have been given an offer to Trinity medical school and I need advice from Trinity alumni.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted889094]

General rule is that Caribbean medical schools are a terrible idea. They tend to prey upon people who aren't able to get into American medical schools, flunking out the ones who don't perform well. They exist as for-profit entities and do not actually care if you finish or just give them a couple year's tuition. Caribbean medical schools will take just about anyone with a pulse.

If you want actual guidance, though, you should tell us more about your resume. What are your GPA's? MCAT? Extracurriculars?

 

[GreenDuck12]

1. If your username if your actual name, make sure you change it to preserve your anonymity.
2. Caribbean medical schools have an extremely low bar for admission due to their for profit nature. Non profit schools have a responsibility to their patients, faculty, and students. For profit entities have a fiduciary responsibility to make money for their shareholders (put another way: if they have an opportunity to make money at the expense of your interests, they will).
3. I would encourage you to look at other options, such as another application cycle or applying DO, since the risks outlined by @gonnif are simply too great to accept. For comparison US MD programs have a 95% match rate.

 

[Goro]

Please I need an honest guidance as to medical school. I have been given an offer to Trinity medical school and I need advice from Trinity alumni.

Here's why this is a bad idea:
The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.
Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine (like Skip Intro or mikkus) into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

The PD's guide below tells you how how leery PDs are at even considering Carib grads:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf



Million $ Mistake

"Why didn't I Match?"

The ugly truth about Caribbean medical schools | Pamela Wible MD

 

[GreenDuck12]

Lets compare apples to apples. The US MD/DO placement rate for GME, which includes prematch, match, and post-match for NMRP, military, and other systems, is 99%+. That is everyone who initially signs for GME, almost always gets a slot. US MD/DO attrition rate, has a been a steady 3%-4% for decades. So, that would mean the success rate of those who start US MD/DO school, earn a degree and get a residency slot is 95%. For Trinity above, it is at best 42% under the most favorable models.

?

 

[GreenDuck12]

The data from trinity was the PLACEMENT rate were you had the MATCH rate, which are not the same thing. Additionally, I had noted the initial enrollment and final placement rate, which would have to account for attrition as well. Hence my apples to apples comment. Your info wasny incorrect, it just wasnt quite complete

It’s an important distinction - thank you for adding it

 

[member named member_name]

Please I need an honest guidance as to medical school. I have been given an offer to Trinity medical school and I need advice from Trinity alumni.

Please I need an honest guidance as to medical school. I have been given an offer to Trinity medical school and I need advice from Trinity alumni.

trinity student here -

first exhaust all options. in my experience.
objective. observation. facts. events.

not to unduely bash the school

for prospective students' sakes, avoid trinity.

facade. advertising. consider the website as a storefront.

expect durations of uncertainty. absent leadership.

if no choice last resort. expect above.

administration disappears. students answer logistical inquiries independently.

[the majority of trinity] students [are routinely left with no choice but to] learn this after inconveniences arise.

a great opportunity for the last option.

if your last option do not expect clarity from higher ups. do not expect support.

know this going in. expect it. become comfortable with it

best of luck to you my friend

-mnm_n

 

[TrinitySoMInsider]

1. If your username if your actual name, make sure you change it to preserve your anonymity.
2. Caribbean medical schools have an extremely low bar for admission due to their for profit nature. Non profit schools have a responsibility to their patients, faculty, and students. For profit entities have a fiduciary responsibility to make money for their shareholders (put another way: if they have an opportunity to make money at the expense of your interests, they will).
3. I would encourage you to look at other options, such as another application cycle or applying DO, since the risks outlined by @gonnif are simply too great to accept. For comparison US MD programs have a 95% match rate.

Having worked for a wide variety of institutions I would challenge your assessment - "Non profit schools have a responsibility to their patients, faculty, and students. For profit entities have a fiduciary responsibility to make money for their shareholders (put another way: if they have an opportunity to make money at the expense of your interests, they will)." I would say that is true of schools who are publicly traded or are backed by a private equity firm. I would also challenge the assumption that non-profit schools aren't concerned with money. Having worked in traditional higher ed for a long time they just don't call it profit, they call it "net tuition revenue." That's why many non-profit schools are closing, laying off staff/faculty, and cutting programs. I've been in enough meeting to know every President at every school - whether it's the Ivies, state flagships, etc - has "net tuition revenue" on their mind. College are a business to a certain extent and they all need money to function properly. If you looked behind the curtain, you'd realize there isn't much difference between how a for-profit and non-profit school runs their business operations. Their are some Ivy League schools who make more money off their "revenue generating" programs (professional ed) than their undergrad programs.

 

[GreenDuck12]

Having worked for a wide variety of institutions I would challenge your assessment - "Non profit schools have a responsibility to their patients, faculty, and students. For profit entities have a fiduciary responsibility to make money for their shareholders (put another way: if they have an opportunity to make money at the expense of your interests, they will)." I would say that is true of schools who are publicly traded or are backed by a private equity firm. I would also challenge the assumption that non-profit schools aren't concerned with money. Having worked in traditional higher ed for a long time they just don't call it profit, they call it "net tuition revenue." That's why many non-profit schools are closing, laying off staff/faculty, and cutting programs. I've been in enough meeting to know every President at every school - whether it's the Ivies, state flagships, etc - has "net tuition revenue" on their mind. College are a business to a certain extent and they all need money to function properly. If you looked behind the curtain, you'd realize there isn't much difference between how a for-profit and non-profit school runs their business operations. Their are some Ivy League schools who make more money off their "revenue generating" programs (professional ed) than their undergrad programs.

I did not state that non profit schools are not concerned with generating revenue. The difference is an obligation to the betterment and preservation of the institution vs benefitting the entities that hold the assets. Your point does not change the crux of my argument above nor does it change the reality of the serious deficiencies that exist at for profit Caribbean medical schools that are not common in US based programs. Thanks for reviving a 5 month old thread though...

 

[TrinitySoMInsider]

I did not state that non profit schools are not concerned with generating revenue. The difference is an obligation to the betterment and preservation of the institution vs benefitting the entities that hold the assets. Your point does not change the crux of my argument above nor does it change the reality of the serious deficiencies that exist at for profit Caribbean medical schools that are not common in US based programs. Thanks for reviving a 5 month old thread though...

So I'm late to the party... 🤷‍♂️ I'm not here to win an argument. You're entitled to stay entrenched in your conclusion. I'm here to encourage folks to do their independent research rather than rely on speculation or assumption. I remember a time DO schools and their graduates were faced with a similar unfair stigma - to a certain extent they still do. Those folks had a hell of a time trying to change that.

I still would challenge you that on your difference to the betterment and preservation of the institutions - many top flagships are bleeding their staff and programs all while charging students full-tuition to attend online courses as if they were in person. You can find the evidence at Inside Higher Ed, the Chronicle, or day I say it - Reddit. Doesn't sound like betterment to me, sounds like a smokescreen. You can't point out a few bad actors because it's convenient to your argument without recognizing they exist in the traditional space as well.

 

[GreenDuck12]

So, what was the point of your response - to make a relatively obvious point that revenue matters?

 

[GreenDuck12]

many top flagships are bleeding their staff and programs all while charging students full-tuition to attend online courses as if they were in person

Also, I get why this is frustrating for students but as an administrator you surely understand that to transition traditional in person classes to an online platform required significant investments in the infrastructure to deliver online instruction - increasing costs. It’s not as though schools can quickly reduce costs because their physical infrastructure isn’t being used... What’s your title or role at trinity? I’m just trying to get a sense if you’re on the academic, admissions, or administrative side of things. I did spend almost a decade in education, after all.

 

[TrinitySoMInsider]

Also, I get why this is frustrating for students but as an administrator you surely understand that to transition traditional in person classes to an online platform required significant investments in the infrastructure to deliver online instruction - increasing costs. It’s not as though schools can quickly reduce costs because their physical infrastructure isn’t being used... What’s your title or role at trinity? I’m just trying to get a sense if you’re on the academic, admissions, or administrative side of things. I did spend almost a decade in education, after all.

Very clever question! I've spent two decades in various roles of higher ed in the various roles you've mentioned. I'd prefer to keep some level of anonymity as folks do on SDN. I agree transitioning to online course posed its challenges for schools. However, it does not require significant monetary investments unless the school didn't have an online learning platform such as Blackboard or Canvas. I'm glad to say Trinity transitioned smoothly with minimal interruption to student education as many of students come from school who used online platforms.

Most traditional schools had the infrastructure in place. Many of the issues dealt with resistance - higher ed sadly is stuck in tradition, unwillingness to offer online, or hybrid, etc. Sadly many secretly added "technology" or "usage fees" to make up for the revenue they would lose from on-campus instruction - dining halls, dorms, facilities costs, etc. To be frank, going online is the most cost effective way for schools to scale education with the least amount of overhead possible. For many schools, it's considered a "cash-cow." If a school is losing money by offering instruction, they are doing it wrong from a business perspective. Student should benefit from some of the savings.

 

[TrinitySoMInsider]

So, what was the point of your response - to make a relatively obvious point that revenue matters?

It was one of my points, but original my intention was to simply inform people to do their research and not rely on speculation or perception. I've encourage every student I've worked with to be a smart consumer of education no matter where the choose to go and find the right fit.

 

[GreenDuck12]

I absolutely agree it is important to do research regarding available options. It happens to be the case that Caribbean medical programs aren’t strong options due to a track record of poor performance at getting students to graduation, residency, and beyond. Unfortunately, it’s a bit deceptive to say students should do their own research when many Caribbean programs do not publish sufficient data regarding student outcomes when compared to their US MD and DO counterparts. For my program I can identify how many students matriculates and graduated. I can find how many students required additional time. I can also find out the residency outcomes and match rates. If you would be so kind, please point us to the comprehensive data at trinity that lists all of this. I would be intrigued to see it.