EM PD - Ask Me Anything

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I am applying AOA and in terms of applications, I have 1 SLOE, and I have another pending. I'm also doing one more EM rotation after this one (my third). However, I heard some people have been receiving interview invites and what not. As such, would you recommend that I upload 2 other letters that aren't SLORS (IM) so that my application is complete or are these not really factors early in the game for interview invites? I was planning on uploading each SLOR as I get them, but wasn't sure if I should just upload 2 more strong letters so I can be complete in terms of letters.

You may want to upload at least one of the IM letters. You will then have two SLOEs soon, with a last SLOE coming mid-interview season. That should be fine.

Also, I have not taken COMLEX 2 CS but completed PE already with a pass. As such, how big of a disadvantage is this? I suspect this is the limiting factor more so then above but wanted to see what you thought about this.

Plenty of people won't have taken CS yet. I think that's a nonfactor right now in terms of who is getting interviews at this point.

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Hey I had a question for yall.
I received a P on my first EM rotation. Have two lined up in September (4 week) and October (2 week)
Would you advise submitting the Pass SLOE so I have a SLOE in early by ERAS or waiting for my next two SLOEs which are hopefully HP/H?
Thanks!
 
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When reviewing applicants SLOEs, how much do you care about the size of the program? I got Honors during my away at a small but well known program and Im worried that big programs might discount this.
 
When reviewing applicants SLOEs, how much do you care about the size of the program? I got Honors during my away at a small but well known program and Im worried that big programs might discount this.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I care less about the name of the institution writing the sloe, and more about the statistical breakdown of the grade given. There are some community programs out there that are very tough graders, and some university-based programs out there that are very top-heavy in their grades. There's not a standard distribution across all the EM programs, which is why the sloe has the section where you have to state how many people got each grade and each sloe rank category each year.

So if I have two different candidates with "top 1/3" SLOEs, the strength of the SLOEs in comparison to one another would be something as follows in terms of impressiveness:
1. Well known place that doesn't inflate their grades
2. Place that doesn't inflate their grades but isn't a big name place.
3. Big name place with grade inflation
4. No name place with grade inflation

That's how, in my mind, I think about the quality of a SLOE, taking into account the prestige of the institution, and how they do or don't over inflate their SLOE scoring. Obviously, this is one persons opinion, take that for what its worth.
 
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More SLOE Woes:
I've requested one from where I am finishing my rotation at now. Unfortunately, I've had little to no interaction with the writer. I was able to tell them in the request which attending I had worked with the most (residents have little say). There's no formal feedback process here, but what I did get was overwhelmingly positive from the residents and the one attending I worked with the most. At any given time, there were 3 students on shift all fighting for patients and 15 total rotating this month.

Do I need to be prepared for a dud?
Is there a good way to see what the overall impression of me has been?
 
More SLOE Woes:
I've requested one from where I am finishing my rotation at now. Unfortunately, I've had little to no interaction with the writer. I was able to tell them in the request which attending I had worked with the most (residents have little say). There's no formal feedback process here, but what I did get was overwhelmingly positive from the residents and the one attending I worked with the most. At any given time, there were 3 students on shift all fighting for patients and 15 total rotating this month.

Do I need to be prepared for a dud?
Is there a good way to see what the overall impression of me has been?
Had essentially the same experience at my last rotation. Also my program gives only passes for every student so it's really hard to gauge performance unless you keep bothering the attending or resident who are already busy.

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More SLOE Woes:
I've requested one from where I am finishing my rotation at now. Unfortunately, I've had little to no interaction with the writer. I was able to tell them in the request which attending I had worked with the most (residents have little say). There's no formal feedback process here, but what I did get was overwhelmingly positive from the residents and the one attending I worked with the most. At any given time, there were 3 students on shift all fighting for patients and 15 total rotating this month.

Do I need to be prepared for a dud?
Is there a good way to see what the overall impression of me has been?

I wouldn't worry about it. This is what happens this time of year. There's just too many students, and residents in brand new rules. It would be easier to stand out if there were less students rotating, but then everyone would be having difficulty getting places to rotate. It's certainly not a perfect system.

As long as the place you rotate has some type of formal evaluation system, its probably fine if you are getting good feedback from the people you work with. I write all the sloes at my program, and there are times when Ive had little experience with a student. That's why ideally sloes should be group sloes. We use post shift evals that get compiled into a database, then have a round table discussion about the students at our faculty meeting before I write them.

The point is, if a place writes group sloes written by one or two people but you barely get to work with that person, dont worry.
 
Personal statement is just over 300 words. Is this too short? I never know what they mean by "fits on one page" when it comes to word counts.
 
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Personal statement is just over 300 words. Is this too short? I never know what they mean by "fits on one page" when it comes to word counts.

Single spaced paragraphs, 12 font in word.... a one page personal statement should have a 500-600 word count I'd imagine. Is there a maximum word count for statements entered into ERAS? I don't remember honestly, its been awhile since I've been on that side of the system.
 
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Personal statement is just over 300 words. Is this too short? I never know what they mean by "fits on one page" when it comes to word counts.
"This personal statement is too short."...said no application reviewer ever.

If you've said all you have to say, don't add words just to fill the page. Make sure somebody who knows what a good PS looks like has a chance to read it, but if all you have to say fits in 300 words, you're done.
 
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Question for you:

I'm applying to a region of the country (Southwest) where I have no ties and I did not rotate and I am from the midwest. What can I do to make myself have a better chance of interviews?
 
Fellowships in EM generally are strictly a means of boosting your academic credentials. I know thats a generalization, but for the most part, its true. They aren't going to get you paid more for the most part. And if you don't want to do academics and just want to work out in the community, you can still be an EMS director without a fellowship. So there is little reason to do EM fellowships outside of academic pursuits. From a pay standpoint, its a bad financial bargain, especially Peds EM, which makes less money than regular EM and is a several year fellowship. That's why 95% of Peds EM docs are Pediatricians not EM docs.

I don't want to come across as being against fellowships, its just you have to want to do them for the right reasons. They aren't competitive at all in EM, just because most people want to just graduate and work.



For full time non-academic EM, I think you'll see most full time ED docs coming in around 30 hours/week or so on average. A little more if they want to make more obviously.
For ACGME, core physician faculty are not supposed to work more than 28 hours/week clinically on average throughout the year. That number is 24/week for an APD.
Those are obviously clinical hours where the faculty are actually on shift. That's not accounting for any education stuff, meeetings, etc.
Residents in EM are capped at 60 hours/week, although at least in my program, no one averages anywhere near that. Most of our residents are working 40-45 hours a week in the ED clinically.
Residency is intense at times, and not terrible at other times.



You want to target the top places you want to go in my opinion. Afterall, most people do wind up matching at a place they were. Most students rank places they are more familiar with higher, and most programs rank students that rotated with them higher. I'm not saying rotating somewhere is a guaranteed high rank spot, you have to do well when you rotate there. But if all else is equal in the application, programs are going to rank the person they know over the person they don't.



Yes. And you wont have any problem having someone give them all to you! I'm a night time person, naturally, I usually would go to bed around 2am or 3am. I absolutely hate mornings. I work all late evening shifts, with my shifts ending at 3am. But I also throw a few 10p-7a's in there. But you will NEVER see me there in the AM unless I have a meeting or I'm at residency conference.



Several hundred. I think this year it was in the 500 range. It's variable year to year.
 
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Although I would agree with almost everything gamerEMdoc has posted (the statistics regarding number of interviews, length of match list, etc will be very program specific and are highly variable) but I have a somewhat different take on the fellowship answer.

Full disclosure: I am an EM residency program director and a fellowship director - which is likely to bias me a bit - but I did not do a fellowship myself.

10 years ago I used to tell people who asked about fellowships "why bother? If you want to be an expert in your field then just complete your EM residency." But I would say that my opinion has changed, and that is largely because the specialty has matured. We are not quite at the point where nearly everyone feels the need to complete a fellowship like internal medicine, but we are also no longer in our infancy. One of the reasons that emergency medicine initially struggled to become recognized by the medical world was it was felt we had no unique body of knowledge and contributed nothing to the advancement of medicine in terms of research or other scholarly activity. We have come a long way and now are often at the forefront of the evolving world of medicine. Take for instance the Standard Video Interview. Love it or hate it, it was EM who decided to try it first. It will not save lives, but the initial research and the way it is used (or not) in the future will be based largely on how we (EM) handle it. Fellowships are a natural part of the evolution that allows our specialty to continue to develop our unique body of knowledge and skill sets.

People who complete a fellowship do not necessary get paid more money. So that should not be the motivator. They are more likely to get director jobs (which might pay more money), but they are also much more likely to get protected time wherever they work if they were hired because of their specialty training. "Full time" work in the emergency department will typically range from 28 to 40 hours per week scheduled to see patients. Protected time means you will be required to work fewer hours seeing patients in order that you may have time to perform other (administrative or educational) activities. You will not likely work less hours overall, but you will have the opportunity to use some of your time away from the clinical arena to do the other things that you enjoy about your job - whether that be teach ultrasound, run a residency, train people in the simulation lab, help direct the operations in the ER or whatever. Without the experience of a fellowship, you can still do any of these activities, but you will be less trained and will most likely have to do it on your own time or at an ER that is less difficult to get a job at.

The fellowship I run is a medical education fellowship. You can gain the skills needed to run a residency without completing a fellowship like mine (I did), but I have heard it said by other fellowship directors that you would, on average, need about 10 years to gain the experience and knowledge that a med-ed fellowship will give you in 2. All of my fellowship graduates have immediately obtained great jobs in residency programs after graduation. Jobs they most certainly would have not gotten without the credentials and training of the fellowship.

Most fellowships will prepare you for jobs at academic centers but many of my former residents have completed fellowships and taken those skills into community based jobs. All else being equal, I would rather hire someone who is fellowship trained than someone who is not. Everyone who graduates from emergency medicine residency (at least for the near future) will be able to get a good job. Those who are fellowship trained are more likely to be competitive at those jobs that are considered great (meaning multiple people are vying for it).

So how does this relate to a medical student who is still years away from completing a residency, let alone a fellowship? It may just be an interesting (or not so interesting) thought, or maybe it will help you plan where you want to do your residency. It is generally easier to get a fellowship that is based out of the residency you are in just like it is easier to get a job at the place your fellowship (or residency) is at (most, but not all of the time). Will you want to do a fellowship after a 4 year residency program? What do you think will make you a more interesting job applicant - completing a 4 year residency or completing a 3 year residency and a fellowship? What will be more fulfilling to you - being a generalist (we are all generalists but I mean a generalist generalist) or having a specialty niche? Would you like to stay in academics? If so, will you be ok with having great skills in treating patients but really no training in teaching (most doctors have close to zero training during their many years of education specifically focused on teaching skills, yet it is an expectation)?

The number of fellowships is exploding. They are still relatively easy to get in to (although some places are much more competitive than others) because the market is keeping pace with the demand. But the demand is growing. 10/16 of my graduates went into academic jobs last year - half of those into fellowships. We spend zero time and effort trying to convince them to take that route, but the residents see what that kind of career will offer them and they gravitate naturally.
 
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SLOE Question:

I finished my first Sub-I today (my school goes super late for third year) and I found out they will not be submitting our SLOE's until the end of the month since 'that's when programs start reading apps'. I'm starting my next Sub-I now, but my predicament is that I will have 0 SLOE's in by Sept 15th now. With 2 coming by early October. Should I even submit my application on Sept 15th now or will it just be screened out as incomplete? I know applying first day is strongly encouraged, so I'm not sure how to approach this?
 
SLOE Question:

I finished my first Sub-I today (my school goes super late for third year) and I found out they will not be submitting our SLOE's until the end of the month since 'that's when programs start reading apps'. I'm starting my next Sub-I now, but my predicament is that I will have 0 SLOE's in by Sept 15th now. With 2 coming by early October. Should I even submit my application on Sept 15th now or will it just be screened out as incomplete? I know applying first day is strongly encouraged, so I'm not sure how to approach this?

I don't think it will matter, one way or the other. Once your letters start to get uploaded, you should hopefully start to get interviews.
 
If I were to apply for residency 4 years after graduating from medical school, after having spent 1 year as an intern and 3 as a GMO in the military, how would I be able to compensate for a lack of SLOEs?

Thanks
 
If I were to apply for residency 4 years after graduating from medical school, after having spent 1 year as an intern and 3 as a GMO in the military, how would I be able to compensate for a lack of SLOEs?

Thanks

Yeah, military people are always in a different situation re: SLOEs. There's a bunch of you every year in the exact same situation, it'll be fine.
 
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In a real bummer of a surprise, I scored 230s on my Step 2. Mid 230s Step 1. If I'm applying with H/H SLOEs and all HP with one H for clerkship grades, how screwed am I based on that Step 2? Thanks!
Other stats: top 25 school, no rankings, above average EC/Research.
 
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In a real bummer of a surprise, I scored 230s on my Step 2. Mid 230s Step 1. If I'm applying with H/H SLOEs and all HP with one H for clerkship grades, how screwed am I based on that Step 2? Thanks!
Other stats: top 25 school, no rankings, above average EC/Research.

Depends on what you want. Want to match in EM. You will with two H/H SLOEs even with 210 boards. Want to match at a super competitive place? Well, it may still be possible, but I wouldn't bank on it. Board scores aren't the leading factor where people match, SLOEs are. You will definitely match.
 
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Depends on what you want. Want to match in EM. You will with two H/H SLOEs even with 210 boards. Want to match at a super competitive place? Well, it may still be possible, but I wouldn't bank on it. Board scores aren't the leading factor where people match, SLOEs are. You will definitely match.

Glad to hear I'm being overly neurotic, thanks for the input! I was originally planning to apply to ~45 programs, pretty broadly with more focus on coasts/competitive places. I was going to add another ~15 programs in the midwest (where my school is located) and those that are considered less competitive. Is that overkill? Thanks!
 
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Hi, thanks for all your advice in this thread. Question for you: how important it is to have 3 letters on my application by the 15th? I will have a strong regular letter (EM related) and a top 10% home SLOE. My away will not be finished until late Oct, and I am trying to figure out if I would be better served by a neutral/positive letter from tox or u/s, or just going with 2 and waiting for my 2nd SLOE.
I'm an otherwise strong applicant: top 25%, 260+ steps, prior advanced degree.

Thanks a lot!
 
First off, thank you gamerEMdoc for being such a great resource.

Question regarding personal statements: Is it frowned upon to include possible interests in a specific fellowship field in a personal statement for a program that does not have that specific fellowship?

Thanks!
 
Glad to hear I'm being overly neurotic, thanks for the input! I was originally planning to apply to ~45 programs, pretty broadly with more focus on coasts/competitive places. I was going to add another ~15 programs in the midwest (where my school is located) and those that are considered less competitive. Is that overkill? Thanks!

Re: the number of programs, thats very individualized and there's not an easy answer. The reason, if you applied to lets say 40 programs, that will be more than enough if they are 40 community based EM programs that aren't big name places. But if you apply to the top 40 programs in EM, that may not be enough. So you cant pick a number that's a safe number, because it depends on the places you actually apply to. Apply to a good mix of the places you'd love to go where you think you have a realistic chance, with a good number of safety places, and you should be fine.
 
Hi, thanks for all your advice in this thread. Question for you: how important it is to have 3 letters on my application by the 15th? I will have a strong regular letter (EM related) and a top 10% home SLOE. My away will not be finished until late Oct, and I am trying to figure out if I would be better served by a neutral/positive letter from tox or u/s, or just going with 2 and waiting for my 2nd SLOE.
I'm an otherwise strong applicant: top 25%, 260+ steps, prior advanced degree.

Thanks a lot!

Very few have 3 SLOEs by mid-Sept. Many don't have two. The goal should be to have one (hopefully good) SLOE by mid Sept when you submit to ERAS. Its expected that most students are still auditioning and that a second SLOE will come later in interview season. I think in the last PD survey I saw, over 80% of PDs extend interviews as long as there is at least one SLOE on the application.
 
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First off, thank you gamerEMdoc for being such a great resource.

Question regarding personal statements: Is it frowned upon to include possible interests in a specific fellowship field in a personal statement for a program that does not have that specific fellowship?

Thanks!

Absolutely not. If you have genuine interest in some sub-field of EM, go ahead and mention it. Programs aren't going to hold that against you.
 
Very few have 3 SLOEs by mid-Sept. Many don't have two. The goal should be to have one (hopefully good) SLOE by mid Sept when you submit to ERAS. Its expected that most students are still auditioning and that a second SLOE will come later in interview season. I think in the last PD survey I saw, over 80% of PDs extend interviews as long as there is at least one SLOE on the application.

That sounds great. My only concern is that my application won't be considered "complete" without 3 LoR submitted. Not really a problem then?

Thanks again!
 
Hi,

I just wanted to hear some thoughts on my situation. So I just got my grade back from my block 2 rotation. Ended up with just a pass which I was shocked by. I emailed the clerkship director and she said that I had positive feedback but wasn't as aggressive as other students and that was what brought my grade down. She reassured me that there wouldn't be any red flags in my SLOE and that it would be a positive (although I assume probably mediocre) letter. I asked to meet with her next week to go over my evaluations in an effort to try to understand how this happened as I had ensured to ask for feedback from every attending after every shift and I had received almost entirely positive feedback outside of one shift with an attending who picked me apart repeatedly.

I just was curious how detrimental this would be for my application and if I should increase the number of programs I am applying too.

I am a pretty average US MD applicant. Step 1 and Step 2 scores right at the national average.
Clinical Grades have been a mix of HP and P during my third year.
Some research, and a good bit of leadership/ECs.

As far as fourth year goes I switched late so my rotations have been:
Medical Toxicology: Honors - Got a letter from this rotation which should be pretty good.
EM SUB-I: Pass - aforementioned case
EM SUB-I: Not completed - but after seeing my evals I am on pace to Honor with some buffer room at the midpoint so worst case should be High Pass.

Letter from Medicine Rotation Third year is also really positive and I have that as well.

My adviser had previously told me to aim for around thirty programs and now I feel really like that might be too little given that I have a Pass with a mediocre SLOE coming in.

I go to medical school in the Northeast and was hoping to stay there in a preferably urban or close to urban program, if that helps give me advice!

If anyone has any thoughts/advice/reassurance that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading.
 
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So I just got my grade back from my block 2 rotation. Ended up with just a pass which I was shocked by. I emailed the clerkship director and she said that I had positive feedback but wasn't as aggressive as other students and that was what brought my grade down. She reassured me that there wouldn't be any red flags in my SLOE and that it would be a positive (although I assume probably mediocre) letter. I asked to meet with her next week to go over my evaluations in an effort to try to understand how this happened as I had ensured to ask for feedback from every attending after every shift and I had received almost entirely positive feedback outside of one shift with an attending who picked me apart repeatedly.

I am a pretty average US MD applicant. Step 1 and Step 2 scores right at the national average.
Clinical Grades have been a mix of HP and P during my third year.

These two things seem contradictory. If you are by your own admission a very average student with average grades and average board scores, but then were shocked and asked for an explanation when you got an average grade? Being a middle of the road student isn't bad. The problem is, clinical grade inflation and many schools/rotations leads to an expectation that a pass (or mid 1/3 SLOE) is bad. Its not. Those students in the middle of the pack match. Most programs match down into the middle of their list or lower. I wouldn't worry.

Re: how many to apply to, you could certainly apply to more. Apply strategically, and if you are worried about your match chances, target less competitive community EM programs to try and maximize your chances. You'll likely be fine.

I asked to meet with her next week to go over my evaluations in an effort to try to understand how this happened as I had ensured to ask for feedback from every attending after every shift and I had received almost entirely positive feedback outside of one shift with an attending who picked me apart repeatedly.

There's some fault in this line of thinking that I see a lot among students. I've heard students tell me before they got great post shift feedback, so why isn't their grade higher. Believe me, I get it, and I know its frustrating. But you have to realize, the evaluations cancel each other out. There are always attendings that are very hard to impress, and others that any student with a pulse will get a great evaluation from. They balance each other out. And some attendings might not be comfortable with giving negative/constructive feedback, so they will say very nice things, then grade you out more as an average candidate. In the end, its not a perfect system, but getting grading opinion from as many voices as possible makes it most likely that a rotations grades are statistically the most accurate, since it cancels out the attendings that grade to high/low. I get that means that students get mixed messages, and that's frustrating, but I'm not sure there is a better way of grading student performance in the ED.

Best of luck!
 
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These two things seem contradictory. If you are by your own admission a very average student with average grades and average board scores, but then were shocked and asked for an explanation when you got an average grade? Being a middle of the road student isn't bad. The problem is, clinical grade inflation and many schools/rotations leads to an expectation that a pass (or mid 1/3 SLOE) is bad. Its not. Those students in the middle of the pack match. Most programs match down into the middle of their list or lower. I wouldn't worry.

Re: how many to apply to, you could certainly apply to more. Apply strategically, and if you are worried about your match chances, target less competitive community EM programs to try and maximize your chances. You'll likely be fine.

I see why that appears contradictory, and I think you are right that it definitely feels like getting an average grade is a red flag for an application when you hear so much talk about the importance of the SLOEs it's hard not go get down on yourself and feel like you've messed up your application/chances. Nevertheless, I really appreciate you taking the time for a response and I will probably apply to maybe 40-50 programs instead of closer to 30 and hope that by adding some more community programs I will sure up my chances of matching in the area I want.

Thanks!
 
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Very bad SVI score but solid clinical evals and board scores with good SLOEs. What do you think the general consenus on the SVI is from PDs?
 
Very bad SVI score but solid clinical evals and board scores with good SLOEs. What do you think the general consenus on the SVI is from PDs?

I think the general feeling is people arent going to put a lot of stock in an unproven score. As always, good sloes will trump all.
 
DO student just received my Step 2CK score as 226.
Step 1: 242
Applied to 65+ programs ACGME programs. First SLOE is probaby mid 1/3. Working on Second SLOE now.
Should I apply to more programs/be concerned for matching?
 
EM hopeful IMG (apologies)

So I have seen quite a few posts on SDN depicting the grim outcome of applying for EM as IMG (US citizen, Caribbean school).
Was wondering if could possibly get a break down of my application a wee bit in advance as I prepare for the all or nothing EM journey?
I read advice on this thread of applying for a more IMG specialty to IMG EM hopeful. Going with EM rotations only for my electives was the original plan but is it wise? Willing to go the extra mile for EM, perhaps Peds then EM would another safer route.
Step 1 - 233
Step 2 - will take this winter
Publication (though i know it doesnt matter too much) - 1
Summers working in US, health care related

Also, should I attempt apply to programs for electives that I have research and confirmed IMG residents, or should I try to apply to programs where I believe I will get more bang for my time (will probably only have two rotations done come applications next fall)?
 
DO student just received my Step 2CK score as 226.
Step 1: 242
Applied to 65+ programs ACGME programs. First SLOE is probaby mid 1/3. Working on Second SLOE now.
Should I apply to more programs/be concerned for matching?

You'll probably be fine, especially if your second sloe is a decent one.
 
EM hopeful IMG (apologies)

So I have seen quite a few posts on SDN depicting the grim outcome of applying for EM as IMG (US citizen, Caribbean school).
Was wondering if could possibly get a break down of my application a wee bit in advance as I prepare for the all or nothing EM journey?
I read advice on this thread of applying for a more IMG specialty to IMG EM hopeful. Going with EM rotations only for my electives was the original plan but is it wise? Willing to go the extra mile for EM, perhaps Peds then EM would another safer route.
Step 1 - 233
Step 2 - will take this winter
Publication (though i know it doesnt matter too much) - 1
Summers working in US, health care related

IMG's have a near impossible uphill battle matching straight out. Some do match, and sometimes its after a prelim year doing something else, but for the most part, the odds are stacked against you.

Also, should I attempt apply to programs for electives that I have research and confirmed IMG residents, or should I try to apply to programs where I believe I will get more bang for my time (will probably only have two rotations done come applications next fall)

I'm not sure what you mean by this question. The two seem like the same thing. The places you are going to get the most "bang for your time" are going to be the places that have matched IMGs. You are not going to do yourself any favors rotating at a big name place who doesn't rank IMGs. I've read SLOEs with all positive things to say about an IMG from a good program, only to see them rate the ranking as a low 1/3 or will not rank, strictly because the program doesn't rank IMGs. If a program does not rank IMGs do not waste one of your precious ED months going there. Not only does it not secure you an interview, but the SLOE they write you could hurt your cause.
 
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Hi

Thanks for doing this!

I'm a non traditional applicant. I'm PGY4, based in UK, have done the initial stages of EM training here. Now myself and my partner are looking to move to US.
 
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Hi

Thanks for doing this!

I'm a non traditional applicant. I'm PGY4, based in UK, have done the initial stages of EM training here. Now myself and my partner are looking to move to US.

I applied to 10 programs last year and was interviewed at a top tier institution who basically pulled me aside shot holes in application in a very constructive way.

Step 1 210s
Step 2 230s
CS PASS
Step3 220s

No fails.

Medical school - mid 1/3.

Decent publications (5) and membership of royal college which is our equivalent of board certification.

Loads of what's considered top notch experience in U.K.

No SLOE, have four dazzling letters from US Prof and UK Profs.

Lot of weaknesses to my application.

I was told by an EM PD that I'll either get into a top program, a not so competitive program or most likely not match at all. Basically the the middle of the match won't have any interest in me.

Have you any experience with similar candidates? Or specific advice?

Thanks again

One piece of information you left out of this post that might help @gamerEMdoc give you advice: How many EM programs are you applying to this year?
 
Hi

Thanks for doing this!

I'm a non traditional applicant. I'm PGY4, based in UK, have done the initial stages of EM training here. Now myself and my partner are looking to move to US.

I applied to 10 programs last year and was interviewed at a top tier institution who basically pulled me aside shot holes in application in a very constructive way.

Step 1 210s
Step 2 230s
CS PASS
Step3 220s

No fails.

Medical school - mid 1/3.

Decent publications (5) and membership of royal college which is our equivalent of board certification.

Loads of what's considered top notch experience in U.K.

No SLOE, have four dazzling letters from US Prof and UK Profs.

Lot of weaknesses to my application.

I was told by an EM PD that I'll either get into a top program, a not so competitive program or most likely not match at all. Basically the the middle of the match won't have any interest in me.

Have you any experience with similar candidates? Or specific advice?

Thanks again

To be honest, I havent. Are you a US citizen? Some progrsms only support some visas. And Im assuming the fact you took usmle means your med school was a US school? People are going to wonder what prompted you to go from a US school to training in the UK to wanting to come back to the US now and train here.

Regardless, with four years of experience in EM you might be an absolute steal for a program.
 
30 programs
If you were applying to IM (which is generally less competitive than EM overall) with a CV like that, I'd tell you that you were applying to about 70 programs too few.

That advice is worth at least double what you paid for it too.
 
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Hi,

Just had a question in terms of strategy. My block 2 SLOE was uploaded today which was a middle 1/3 SLOE. Is there any thought of holding the SLOE till my block 3 SLOE is uploaded and sending both together. My block 3 one should be better seeing as I managed to Honor that rotation.

Granted these are the only 2 SLOEs that I will have, and they are complimented by a Toxicology Letter and a Medicine Letter that are both already uploaded and assigned to schools.

Just curious if you think that there's any benefit in holding the average SLOE till the other one comes out with hopes of sending both together, or if I will miss out on initial rounds of interviews because of not having one at all.

Thanks!
 
Hi,

Just had a question in terms of strategy. My block 2 SLOE was uploaded today which was a middle 1/3 SLOE. Is there any thought of holding the SLOE till my block 3 SLOE is uploaded and sending both together. My block 3 one should be better seeing as I managed to Honor that rotation.

Granted these are the only 2 SLOEs that I will have, and they are complimented by a Toxicology Letter and a Medicine Letter that are both already uploaded and assigned to schools.

Just curious if you think that there's any benefit in holding the average SLOE till the other one comes out with hopes of sending both together, or if I will miss out on initial rounds of interviews because of not having one at all.

Thanks!

I dont think its a good idea to hold out, unless that second sloe is coming very soon. I think you are going to potentially miss out on more interviews because you have no sloe than you would gain by this strategy.
 
Question about contacting PD's: I auditioned and interviewed at my first choice in July and was told to come back for a second look when the new PD comes in in September. I've been communicating with the program coordinator to try to get a day to come back and show my face with no luck. I'm headed out for my last 2 auditions on Saturday and won't be back until December. Should I drop her an email just letting her know who I am, or work through the coordinator and wait until December?
 
Shoot an email to the coordinator, let them know that while you intended to make it back for a second look, you were unable to do so until December when you get back from your aways.

It's completely unreasonable for a program to make a student who spent a month rotating there come back for a second look. Coming back for an interview should be fine IMO. Anything more just doesnt seem reasonable.
 
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Shoot an email to the coordinator, let them know that while you intended to make it back for a second look, you were unable to do so until December when you get back from your aways.

It's completely unreasonable for a program to make a student who spent a month rotating there come back for a second look. Coming back for an interview should be fine IMO. Anything more just doesnt seem reasonable.

The previous PD that interviewed me in July and wrote my SLOE, got promoted within the GME department. Hopefully, their interview impressions, etc. will carry some weight with the new PD.
 
One more questions, do you feel that ACGME programs will disregard AOA SLORS? All my SLORS are from historically (now ACGME) AOA programs.
 
I mean, I just dont get why a SLOE from that very institution, regardless of who is the PD, wouldnt be good enough, and would necessitate a second look. I'm sure the new PD wants to meet everyone, but isnt that what the interview is for?
 
One more questions, do you feel that ACGME programs will disregard AOA SLORS? All my SLORS are from historically (now ACGME) AOA programs.

No. I think there will always be some bias at big name elite places, who are going to want to see SLOEs from other big name elite places. For the average program, as long as the program has a decent grading distribution and they take a decent number of students, I think the SLOE carries a lot of weight regardless of where it is from.
 
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