Educated in Germany, eligible for US licensure?

[DropkickMurphy]

Does anyone know if someone were to go to medical school in Germany if they would be eligible for medical licensure in the US? How would I go about finding this out for definite (i.e. who handles this kind of thing?) Pardon me for the clueless nature of this post but I'm not used to the international approach to things.

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[prefontaine]

After obtaining an ECFMG certificate and meeting the state's GME requirements they would probably be eligible.



QUOTE=Praetorian]Does anyone know if someone were to go to medical school in Germany if they would be eligible for medical licensure in the US? How would I go about finding this out for definite (i.e. who handles this kind of thing?) Pardon me for the clueless nature of this post but I'm not used to the international approach to things.[/QUOTE]

 

[vexa]

Does anyone know if someone were to go to medical school in Germany if they would be eligible for medical licensure in the US? How would I go about finding this out for definite (i.e. who handles this kind of thing?) Pardon me for the clueless nature of this post but I'm not used to the international approach to things.

Hi,
I am studying in Germany. As far as I know the German exam is not sufficient to work in the US as a doctor. You have to pass the US medical exam. I think, though, that this can be done in Europe. I am sorry that I cannot give you more detailed information, but I have never before occupied myself with this matter. However, I could give you information about the different unis in Germany, if you are interested.
Eva

 

[Miklos]

The single best source of information is the ECFMG website.

 

[tlew12778]

You can take the Step 1 & 2 in Europe at any Prometrics center. You have to take the step 2CS in the US. Step 3 you take during residency in the US so you're already there.

 

[f_w]

Does anyone know if someone were to go to medical school in Germany if they would be eligible for medical licensure in the US?

The answer is Yes.

It takes however some work and financial effort. The best place to start is as someone pointed out the ECFMG website. www.ecfmg.org

In short, you have to go through the following steps:

#1 register with the ECFMG (www.ecfmg.org)
#2 get application materials to participate in the US medical licensing exam (www.usmle.org)
#3 apply for admission to the exam providing various documents such as your medical school diploma
#4 take USMLE step1 (can be done in germany)
#5 take USMLE step2ck (can be done in germany)
#6 come to the US, take USMLE step2cs (a practical exam)

#7 Then you have to find a residency program. Look for the 'FREIDA' database on the american medical association website. Check out www.nrmp.org to find information about the centralized process to obtain a residency position.

#8 You have to obtain a visa to be allowed to train here. Either a J1 (exchange visitor) or H1b (temporary specialty worker) visa.

#9 Do your residency training.

#10 After 2-3 years of residency training in the US, you are eligible to obtain a full unrestricted medical license. The medical license is issued by the medical board of the individual state. You can find a list of individual states medical boards at the website of the federation of state medical boards. www.fsmb.org Different states have different rules, but most require pretty much the same stuff: 2-3 years of US residency training, USMLE 1-3 and a valid ECFMG certificate.

 

[llsprings]

please excuse me for bumping this old post, but I have a related question in this topic.
What if the OP had obtained medical licensure in Germany and worked there for 3-5 years already? To make it more complicated, what if the OP had sub-specialty back at Germany as well? What would be the changes in the "exchange" procedures in the nicely detailed post above me?

 

[f_w]

Here is the process if you already have a subspecialty in Germany:

------------------------------

#1 register with the ECFMG (www.ecfmg.org)
#2 get application materials to participate in the US medical licensing exam (www.usmle.org)
#3 apply for admission to the exam providing various documents such as your medical school diploma
#4 take USMLE step1 (can be done in germany)
#5 take USMLE step2ck (can be done in germany)
#6 come to the US, take USMLE step2cs (a practical exam)

#7 Then you have to find a residency program. Look for the 'FREIDA' database on the american medical association website. Check out www.nrmp.org to find information about the centralized process to obtain a residency position.

#8 You have to obtain a visa to be allowed to train here. Either a J1 (exchange visitor) or H1b (temporary specialty worker) visa.

#9 Do your residency training.

#10 After 2-3 years of residency training in the US, you are eligible to obtain a full unrestricted medical license. The medical license is issued by the medical board of the individual state. You can find a list of individual states medical boards at the website of the federation of state medical boards. www.fsmb.org Different states have different rules, but most require pretty much the same stuff: 2-3 years of US residency training, USMLE 1-3 and a valid ECFMG certificate.

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In case you wondered. Yes, it is exactly the same process as if you are fresh out of medschool. The US for the most part doesn't accept postgraduate training done outside of the US and canada. You might have a leg up in looking for a residency, but typically you have to repeat your entire postgraduate training.

The only exception is academic practice. If you have a strong research background and a US medical school hires you on a tenure-track position, you might be able to practice your specialty without having to go through residency again (and depending on the state, sometimes without having to write the USMLE). However, the way from these academic positions into the private practice market is very difficult.

 

[llsprings]

Thanks for the reply.
I am now wondering how high is the leg up if our German friend has finished the respective residency and practiced for five years in Germany (assuming no malpractice ) when he/she applies for US residency in
...competitive field (derm, orthopaedic surgery, etc.)?
...mid-competitive field (ob, em, etc.)?

 

[f_w]

I am now wondering how high is the leg up if our German friend has finished the respective residency and practiced for five years in Germany (assuming no malpractice ) when he/she applies for US residency in
...competitive field (derm, orthopaedic surgery, etc.)?
...mid-competitive field (ob, em, etc.)?

The FMGs that make it into specialties like ortho or derm usually have a research background to make them attractive for a program. Just practice in a specialty abroad doesn't really give a big boost.

OB is highly competitive (again), it just had a little slump in the 2002-2003 match.

Specialties like neuro seem to really love foreign trained candidates. It is so much an experience based specialty that a foreign trained resident is a real asset.

 

[llsprings]

Thanks again; I learn more the more I read your posts.
It sounds like a year or two of good research is better than 4+ years (7 for neurosurg) of training in a competitive residency in another country when applying for residency.

For verification, a foregin trained physician cannot start at an advanced position without a preliminary, right?

Suppose there are two German FMGs with similar stats and LORs applying for US residency, does PD, whom I assume has no depth knowledge of medical school and hospital rankings in Germany, weigh more on...
...the ranking of medical school to which the applicant attended
(suppose one FMG went to #1 and one went to #5)
...the ranking of residency completed (#1 vs #5)
...combination of both?

 

[f_w]

...the ranking of medical school to which the applicant attended

There is no ranking of medical schools in germany.

...the ranking of residency completed (#1 vs #5)

Given the highly disorganized training system, no meaningful ranking of residencies exists in germany.[/quote]

...combination of both?

Neither.
What counts are personal connections, USMLE scores, letters of recommendation from rotations in the US, personal recommendations from the few foreign physicians known in the US.

 

[llsprings]

Given their pharmaceutical industry, I assumed there would be some #1 medical school in Germany. Anyway, moving on, I saw some infoformation about foreign trained physician somewhere on the residency forum, and don't know if what I understand from the post is correct. Is it true that a foreign trained physician, after obtaining the ECFMG certificate, can apply directly to a fellowship?

 

[f_w]

Is it true that a foreign trained physician, after obtaining the ECFMG certificate, can apply directly to a fellowship?

In some specialties this is possible (I know of two for sure).

Internal medicine allows foreign trained physicians to go directly into a fellowship, but in order to become eligible for the board exam they have to do at least 2 years of a residency afterwards. In radiology it is possible to go directly into fellowship. If a foreign radiologist can stay on at the same institution for 3 more years on a faculty position, they are eligible to sit for the board exam.

 

[med_heidelberg]

There isnt a strict ranking of medical schools in Germany like in the US, but some schools are considered better than others. Rankings, like those in Der Spiegel or Die Zeit, do exist, but they are qualitative and rank various factors like research output, facilities, quality of teaching, quality of advising etc.

In terms of research and reputation, Heidelberg is considered by many to be the number one medical school in Germany. This is in large part due to the research institutes that are affiliated with the university, like the Max Planck Institut for Medical Research, the German Cancer Research Center (DKFZ), the European Molecular Biology Laboratory (EMBL), and a few others. Heidelberg is ranked in the top 20 medical schools worldwide by the London Times, for whatever that is worth.

However, a lot of this reputation is based on the history of Heidelberg, at least that is my opinion. Heidelberg, the oldest university in Germany, has a medical faculty that has been around since the 1300s, so it has a lot of history and tradition. Nowadays, all German medical schools have the same curriculum more or less, and I think you can get a good medical education anywhere in Germany. And ironically, the facilities here arent really that amazing, Ive seen better libraries at other universities like Würzburg and Kiel, for example.

However, there are other schools that are also considered top schools (or as the Germans like to say, Elite Unis). Those would be Freiburg, Tübingen, Berlin, and Munich. But to be honest, education in Germany is pretty standarized and aside from minor differences, it will be roughly the same at any university. Location also plays a role in the reputation. Some schools are in more desirable geographical locations, and therefore attract more people. Also, people want the name brand effect and competition is much higher at some places over others.

Plenty of Germans take the USMLE and land good residencies in the US. There are very few US citizens attending medical school here, mainly due to the language barrier. Going to a German university isnt the same as going to a Carribean or offshore school (i.e. English curriculum), because they do not cater to Americans that did not make the cut to get into American medical schools. The competition to get a spot as a foreigner is extremely intense (25 non EU citizens admitted from an applicant pool of 800), right now there is no tuition, but in the summer they will implement tuition of 500 euro per semester, which is practically nothing when compared to a US school.

If anyone has any questions about medical school in Germany, feel free to ask here or in a private message.