"Easy" radonc programs?

[HUCM08]

there has been much discussion about the top radonc programs in the country but i was wondering if anyone knew of programs that are a little less competitive to get into...granted it is insanely difficult to match anywhere but how can i go about getting info about easier programs...thanks for any info

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[HUCM08]

i came across the 2004 match stats stating that 2 spots remained unfilled out of a total of 117 available in radonc for PGY2...the 2 spots were in the southern regions...does anyone know which programs had open spots?
thanks!

 

[radonc]

i came across the 2004 match stats stating that 2 spots remained unfilled out of a total of 117 available in radonc for PGY2...the 2 spots were in the southern regions...does anyone know which programs had open spots?
thanks!

not sure who had open spots, but i remember one year (2002), buffalo had 2 open spots because (apparently) they ranked only 10 students and didnt get any of them. so, they accepted applications (post match, during the scramble). they received about 130ish applications, then held a separate round of interviews, and gave their 2 spots "outside" the match.

having open spots doesnt mean those programs are easier to get into...

 

[RadOncFever]

i came across the 2004 match stats stating that 2 spots remained unfilled out of a total of 117 available in radonc for PGY2...the 2 spots were in the southern regions...does anyone know which programs had open spots?
thanks!

For sure one of those unfilled spots was at U. Virginia. The other is probably Vanderbilt, since they unethically went outside the match to fill the one spot they were offering.

 

[radonculous]

For sure one of those unfilled spots was at U. Virginia. The other is probably Vanderbilt, since they unethically went outside the match to fill the one spot they were offering.

I believe that UVa had an "unfilled" spot because they originally thought they would be approved for 2 spots, but actually only had one approved spot (from whatever powers that may be assign #'s of residency spots - the ACGME?). I remember during my interview there last year the program director saying something about trying to get 2 spots but not being absolutely sure they would have them. Maybe someone actually at UVa can comment on this. And yes, Vanderbilt gave away their spot outside the match. So technically, I don't think there were actually any unfilled spots last year.

 

[Adawaal]

i came across the 2004 match stats stating that 2 spots remained unfilled out of a total of 117 available in radonc for PGY2...the 2 spots were in the southern regions...does anyone know which programs had open spots?
thanks!

Well, I know where the other one was, and frankly it should not have been counted as an unfilled spot. Let's just say it was a highly unusual situation, and the program really had not been intending on having a spot that year. And, yes I guess you could call it a Southern program, though I think of it more as an Atlantic Coast area.

 

[RADGUY]

The post above about Buffalo/Roswell Park is helpful. Pure speculation about other programs is not. I do not have insider information, but before labelling a PD and or program unethical, I would rather have facts. It is certainly plausible (particularly given the program) than Vandy accpeted an applicant into the Holman pathway which I understand (maybe incorrectly?) is done outside of the match since it entails a separate application process, with acceptance or rejection offered by the ABR before the rank list is to be submitted. There may be other reasons as well. Before slamming a program please offer facts.

I believe that UVa had an "unfilled" spot because they originally thought they would be approved for 2 spots, but actually only had one approved spot (from whatever powers that may be assign #'s of residency spots - the ACGME?). I remember during my interview there last year the program director saying something about trying to get 2 spots but not being absolutely sure they would have them. Maybe someone actually at UVa can comment on this. And yes, Vanderbilt gave away their spot outside the match. So technically, I don't think there were actually any unfilled spots last year.

 

[Michael Spiker]

Holman pathway is NOT determined outside of the match. Normally you apply during your internship after it is decided where you will do your residency. Other programs like UPenn with Holman pathway residents all selected these residents through the match.

I don't have any "facts" about what happened at Vanderbilt, but if they indeed made a deal with an applicant outside the match, I do find that... sketchy.

 

[RADGUY]

http://www.theabr.org/Holman.htm

according to the ABR, you apply as a medical student or intern. Since it entails a minimum of a 9 month internship, I have heard of some programs wanting you to apply upfront to maximize the 21-24 month research allotment (since if you match into a 1 year intern program, I imagine you are obligated to finish 12 months of that program).

 

[RadOncFever]

The post above about Buffalo/Roswell Park is helpful. Pure speculation about other programs is not. I do not have insider information, but before labelling a PD and or program unethical, I would rather have facts. It is certainly plausible (particularly given the program) than Vandy accpeted an applicant into the Holman pathway which I understand (maybe incorrectly?) is done outside of the match since it entails a separate application process, with acceptance or rejection offered by the ABR before the rank list is to be submitted. There may be other reasons as well. Before slamming a program please offer facts.

The fact is that all those who interviewed there basically wasted their money since the PD was already decided on the candidate while he was still actively interviewing candidates. He offered me to interview early on but because I was unable to go to the first interview, he offered me another date, but changed the interview dates 2 times, and after all my travel arrangements have been made and paid for, he again cancelled the interview, this time indefinitely, two days before I was suppose to travel. I had to complain before I was called to offer reimbursement for my plane ticket and travel arrangements. I find that very sketchy...and very unethical.

Holman is not unique to Vanderbilt. You can do Holman anywhere, and you can decide while in residency. I know a resident at Stanford who did just that, in the middle of her first categorical year there.

 

[RADGUY]

Thanks for posting your experience. Sounds like they are not too organized at Vandy!

The fact is that all those who interviewed there basically wasted their money since the PD was already decided on the candidate while he was still actively interviewing candidates. He offered me to interview early on but because I was unable to go to the first interview, he offered me another date, but changed the interview dates 2 times, and after all my travel arrangements have been made and paid for, he again cancelled the interview, this time indefinitely, two days before I was suppose to travel. I had to complain before I was called to offer reimbursement for my plane ticket and travel arrangements. I find that very sketchy...and very unethical.

Holman is not unique to Vanderbilt. You can do Holman anywhere, and you can decide while in residency. I know a resident at Stanford who did just that, in the middle of her first categorical year there.

 

[deleted4401]

As far as "easier" goes, it's a relative concept. One thing to think about is that there is a big-time regional bias, and I've seen it firsthand for the midwestern programs. So, the ones in your region will be 'relatively' easier for you. Also, allegedly, if you do rotations at a program, they may be more likely to interview you, although I think that is very program dependent. If you are an MD/PhD, most programs will become 'easier' as well, since that is the rage these days (the Beaumont folks told me that half of their interviewees are MD/PhD). I also think that having a program at your medical school makes it relatively easier to receive an interview there, but that's also program dependent I'm sure.

Other than that, it has been a crapshoot. I thought I was a good applicant, and my dean assured me that things would go alright, yet I haven't received many interviews. The ones I have received have ranged from programs considered to be mediocre to a few that are reputed to be top 20.

I don't envy anyone having to do this process. By the looks of it, it will get even harder next year. Unbelievable. A field that was wide-open to FMGs ten years ago is now pretty much the domain of MD/PhDs, AOA students, people with Steps of 230+++, those with many first author pubs, and finally, the well-connected. The New Derm???

Good luck,

Simul

 

[stephew]

I want to make a note here; do NOT be put off if you dont have 235++ lots of pubs etc. You have to be realistic; if you aren't competitive you may not make it and you should have a back up plan. But I see ALOT of variation in the applicants Ive interviewed in the last couple of years, and a lot of "stars" on paper fall, while "average joes" move up the list because of some quality in their person that they have. Ive seen arrogence make people lose choice spots and a caring personality get folks top spots when their boards were boarderline and the achievements, while decent, didn't change the medical literature exactly.

 

[CaptainJack02]

I want to make a note here; do NOT be put off if you dont have 235++ lots of pubs etc. You have to be realistic; if you aren't competitive you may not make it and you should have a back up plan. But I see ALOT of variation in the applicants Ive interviewed in the last couple of years, and a lot of "stars" on paper fall, while "average joes" move up the list because of some quality in their person that they have. Ive seen arrogence make people lose choice spots and a caring personality get folks top spots when their boards were boarderline and the achievements, while decent, didn't change the medical literature exactly.

steph, this is kind of a vague question, but what do you seek in a colleague? when you interview someone, what makes you say i want to work with this person but not this one? i've always wanted to put this question to a person in power

 

[stephew]

i dont know what a power person would say, but for me, I look for the non-jerk factor. Youre smart. I know it. Youre well -educated. Duh. You may be a real contributor to the field; that's good. BUt how do you feel abotu the patients? Are you too arrogent to work well with colleages? patients? Are you lazy (you'd be surpised at the answer). Do you not yet know that right now, the nurses know more than you? Do you respect others? do you like what you do? Why do you want to do this? Ultimately, would I be proud to work with you? So how does one figure it out? I try to listen to of what and how the person speaks. We also see how candidates interact with each other. I knew of one candidate who pimped the resident. How do I know? I was the resident. This clown was not ranked at hopkins and was blackballed at other places (and yes i know where this individual is now). Another was competing with a person from the same med school for hopkins; every time an attending walked in this person would "wish" their colleage "luck at U of __ since I know you really want to go there!". Basically trying to inform us said candidate wouldn't rank us high/num,ber one. That person isn't at JHH (and knows the first person I mentioned in fact rather well). One jerk was so snotty they got bumped off the rank list in spite of an impressive portfolio. Ive met basic sci people very impressive on paper but they failed to rank well because there was no sense that they even cared about the clinic. That's fine, but go get your PhD or take the one you have and work in a lab. You dont belong taking care of our patients. Ive met people who were "weak" (rememebr this is rad onc: our "weak" is "star!" for most programs) on paper but we're so cool and lovely in person, they've matched *very * well for themselves. Ive seen people bumped down for being bright and cute around attendings (ie the power brokers as you say!) and snub the residents. (dont think we dont see it!). All in all? Dont' be a jerk. If youve got an interview, you're good (and probably better than good academically). Now show me what you belong taking care of my patients.

This isn't just me. Manyof the "greats" in the field are so because this is their view. Be nice. Look like you like what you do and like other people. It looks good for you.

 

[carrigallen]

well-said steph.