Duke vs Yale vs Cornell vs UCLA

[sagetheprofessor]

Hi everyone! Incredibly fortunate to be deciding between 3 schools I'm super excited about. For context, the cost of attending all three schools will be roughly the same. And I’m likely going to match into something not as competitive, but would definitely like to keep my options open in case I have a change of heart. I’ve also put a ** next to the pros and cons that are particularly important to me as I make my decision. Thanks in advance and hope everyone’s staying healthy!

--EDITED to also include UCLA because I was just accepted off the WL. I still need to do more research about the school because I don't know a lot about it, but included a short pro/con list for UCLA.

Duke:

Pros:

• **Curriculum seems great, specifically the 1 year preclinical and full research year
• Strong clinical training/hospital network
• Strong research opportunities
• Interview day was great (probably favorite of the 3) - loved the campus and the people
• Beautiful facilities
• **Seems to have a close-knit student body --> could really see myself fitting in well
• Weather

Cons:

• *Far from home. Especially with second looks canceled I feel a little hesitant moving to a new location I haven’t really spent time in or explored
• May not match as well to the Northeast
• **AOA & shelf exams during clinical years
• **Potentially fewer opportunities for health justice and working with underrepresented minorities (not sure if this is true)
• South probably more conservative? (Not necessarily the medical school/Durham but the surrounding area)

Yale:

Pros:

• Close to home
• Yale system --> lots of flexibility
• **No AOA or shelf exams
• Clinical grading (many students receive Honors)
• Research --> already have contacts through previous work with PIs that I would be interested working with
• Name brand (at least to the general public)
• **Good student-run free clinic / many opportunities to work with the underserved
• **Incredible match list (probably best of the 3)

Cons:

• **Location (not a fan of New Haven) --> this is probably my biggest con
• Many students (seems like 50%+) take a 5th year, which I would not want to do but feel like I could be pressured into it if everyone else around me wanting to go into competitive specialties (if I decide that's what I want to do) is doing it
• *Least favorite interview day of the 3 (was a little off-put by the interviewees and current students I met, but didn’t meet too many)
• Clinical training may be a bit worse than the other two schools?
• *Not 100% sure if the Yale system is for me. Scared that I would get too far behind or not hold myself accountable enough with all the freedom and infrequent testing of the Yale System

Cornell:

Pros:

• **NYC is a huge pull! (Would really enjoy living in a city, especially one that's close to family and friends)
• Enjoyed my interview day and liked students I met a lot
• Great hospital & facilities
• **Many opportunities to work with the underserved / health advocacy
• Great research opportunities
• Easier time matching into the Northeast

Cons:

• Not sure if its med school reputation is as “solidified” as Yale and Duke’s ?
• **I didn’t get this impression from my interview day but have heard from others that it can be a bit competitive (whereas have heard that Duke and Yale are particularly collaborative and supportive). If this is true would definitely want to avoid.
• **AOA/rank and shelf exams

UCLA:

Pros:

• **Location - far from family, but Los Angeles, wow
• **Many opportunities to work with underserved populations
• Stunning hospital and facilities
• Best US News rank (but to my understanding all four schools are of pretty similar levels of prestige, correct me if I'm wrong)
• Large student body --> feel like I could find a friend-group pretty easily

Cons:

• Matches really well, but mainly in California
• Far from family and friends
• **Maybe competitive? (I think has AOA, tough clinical grading, but not too sure about this/their environment? Can anyone weigh in?)
• **I think their curriculum is changing? Again, don't know too much about this.

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[deleted996731]

Sorry I’m not answering your post but where did you hear about Cornell’s student body being competitive? Was it from a current student?

 

[TheDataKing]

Cornell sounds like a solid contender for you as you’d still be closer to home and get to work with underserved groups. I’ve heard the weekly quizzes aren’t bad there. That said, I think you need to figure out if you care about AOA and rank bc that’ll give you Yale vs everywhere else and then decide

 

[The REAL Doc McStuffins]

Yale. That’s your answer.

 

[juliannewman]

Cornell sounds like a solid contender for you as you’d still be closer to home and get to work with underserved groups. I’ve heard the weekly quizzes aren’t bad there. That said, I think you need to figure out if you care about AOA and rank bc that’ll give you Yale vs everywhere else and then decide

Are you saying yale students are at a disadvantage without aoa and rank

 

[blurb_123]

I'd go to Cornell. Manhattan+great institution. It'll be a lot of fun and you'll have great career options too. If you do care about a less stressful competitive environment, I'd go Yale all the way.

 

[Engrailed]

Hi everyone! Incredibly fortunate to be deciding between 3 schools I'm super excited about. For context, the cost of attending all three schools will be roughly the same. And I’m likely going to match into something not as competitive, but would definitely like to keep my options open in case I have a change of heart. I’ve also put a ** next to the pros and cons that are particularly important to me as I make my decision. Thanks in advance and hope everyone’s staying healthy!

Duke:

Pros:

• **Curriculum seems great, specifically the 1 year preclinical and full research year
• Strong clinical training/hospital network
• Strong research opportunities
• Interview day was great (probably favorite of the 3) - loved the campus and the people
• Beautiful facilities
• **Seems to have a close-knit student body --> could really see myself fitting in well
• Weather

Cons:

• *Far from home. Especially with second looks canceled I feel a little hesitant moving to a new location I haven’t really spent time in or explored
• May not match as well to the Northeast
• **AOA & shelf exams during clinical years
• **Potentially fewer opportunities for health justice and working with underrepresented minorities (not sure if this is true)
• South probably more conservative? (Not necessarily the medical school/Durham but the surrounding area)

Yale:

Pros:

• Close to home
• Yale system --> lots of flexibility
• **No AOA or shelf exams
• Clinical grading (many students receive Honors)
• Research --> already have contacts through previous work with PIs that I would be interested working with
• Name brand (at least to the general public)
• **Good student-run free clinic / many opportunities to work with the underserved
• **Incredible match list (probably best of the 3)

Cons:

• **Location (not a fan of New Haven) --> this is probably my biggest con
• Many students (seems like 50%+) take a 5th year, which I would not want to do but feel like I could be pressured into it if everyone else around me wanting to go into competitive specialties (if I decide that's what I want to do) is doing it
• *Least favorite interview day of the 3 (was a little off-put by the interviewees and current students I met, but didn’t meet too many)
• Clinical training may be a bit worse than the other two schools?
• *Not 100% sure if the Yale system is for me. Scared that I would get too far behind or not hold myself accountable enough with all the freedom and infrequent testing of the Yale System

Cornell:

Pros:

• **NYC is a huge pull! (Would really enjoy living in a city, especially one that's close to family and friends)
• Enjoyed my interview day and liked students I met a lot
• Great hospital & facilities
• **Many opportunities to work with the underserved / health advocacy
• Great research opportunities
• Easier time matching into the Northeast

Cons:

• Not sure if its med school reputation is as “solidified” as Yale and Duke’s ?
• **I didn’t get this impression from my interview day but have heard from others that it can be a bit competitive (whereas have heard that Duke and Yale are particularly collaborative and supportive). If this is true would definitely want to avoid.
• **AOA/rank and shelf exams

YALE.
i’ve also heard that Cornell can be on the competitive side.
Yale has all the benefits of AOA/no rank, so called-name recognition if that interests you, proximity to NYC (just a 40 min train ride), with the ease of matching back to the East Coast for residency.

Yale’s flexible curriculum isn’t for everyone—there will be no spoonfeeding of info but if you plan well, I’m sure you’ll adapt to it. Seems like their students match well anyhow.

just my 2c. Best of luck!

 

[Skittsie13]

YALE.
i’ve also heard that Cornell can be on the competitive side.
Yale has all the benefits of AOA/no rank, so called-name recognition if that interests you, proximity to NYC (just a 40 min train ride), with the ease of matching back to the East Coast for residency.

Yale’s flexible curriculum isn’t for everyone—there will be no spoonfeeding of info but if you plan well, I’m sure you’ll adapt to it. Seems like their students match well anyhow.

just my 2c. Best of luck!

I would add an hour to that train time.

OP, you have to know yourself. I know that personally, the flexible curriculum would lead me to crash and burn, and it was the chase of things like honors/AOA at my school that helped me succeed. But some people thrive in a non-competitive environment. It sounds like you liked Duke and Cornell a lot more from your pros/cons list.

 

[9blade]

If you know yourself to be responsible, I'd go to Yale. Heck, you can even find yourself a good study partner and you guys can keep each other accountable. If you don't think you can do that, in that case, I'd go to Cornell since you love NYC and you would be closer to home.

 

[DocKoozmin]

Yale. The way they do grading is a huge plus that I personally think outweighs any of its negatives.

 

[FatherTime-PhD]

Sorry I’m not answering your post but where did you hear about Cornell’s student body being competitive? Was it from a current student?

It’s just what they’re notorious for I guess. Just think about your interview day - hella people from ivy leagues. I’m sure p/f pre-clinical helps with it, but my interviewer said “true colors start to show once clerkships start”. Kind of makes sense because who doesn’t want AOA.

but most current students seem to talk this down and say it’s not the case. You’ll just have to see for yourself.

 

[FatherTime-PhD]

OP-
If you can hold yourself accountable- YALE

If you prefer more structure, come to Cornell. I might be joining you there too and we can be best friends

 

[deleted972488]

Based on your pro/con list I would choose Cornell.

Yale has all the benefits of AOA/no rank, so called-name recognition if that interests you, proximity to NYC (just a 40 min train ride)

Not sure if it makes a huge difference, but the train ride from NH to NYC is closer to 2 hours. On the bright side, it is inexpensive.

 

[birdred23]

Congrats on your acceptances! Extremely impressive! Based on what you’ve said I would go with Cornell! NYC is an amazing city and Weill is highly regarded in the medical community. I have many friends there now and they have only positive things to say about their fellow classmates and the culture!!

 

[sagetheprofessor]

Thanks, everyone for your helpful thoughts and opinions! Can anyone comment on UCLA (was just accepted off the WL!)? I wrote a short pro/con list in the original post but admittedly I don't know too much about the school.

 

[deleted972488]

Based on what you've written I still think you should choose Cornell because its location appeals to you the most. There's no real prestige or opportunity difference between any of these institutions.

 

[glee123]

Agree w/ @PapayaJambalaya , I would personally go with Cornell still based on your list. Congrats on getting off the WL and good luck!

 

[nymedschoolfan]

Are UCLA and Cornell the same price? I think UCLA would be cheaper if you don't qualify for financial aid, but Cornell might be better if you do. Can't go wrong with either.

 

[Yhwach]

Yale because of Yale system

 

[Nerdanese]

I can't say which one is the best for you, but I can provide more info: New Haven isn't as bad as people think it is. It is a really nice city with a lot of restaurants, communities, and neighborhoods in it. There's at least one of everything, and there's so much stuff to do on the med and undergrad campus it's more than enough for a medical student. If you must live in a NYC like place, New Haven isn't for you, but if you like a walkable city with things to do and are fine with doing stuff associated with the undergrad, it's a great place.

Also, the Yale System is insane. I am one of the biggest procrastinators I know, and I am doing fine under the yale system. I used to be a bundle of anxiety and stress, and under the yale system I just have to worry about passing one exam every month or so. And if I fail one exam? Nothing bad happens, you just revise and move on with your life.

Obviously make your choice based on what you'll be happy with, but I just want you to know how great the yale system is because I nearly didn't go with it, and I am so glad that I decided to come haha

 

[Radiata20]

If you have q's about UCLA, take a look at the UCLA c/o 2024 Facebook page, there are something like 90+ current students from MS1-MS4 on a GoogleSheet posted that offered to speak with any accepted students who would like to chat about UCLA! Peruse the list to see which students' bios match your interests best, and reach out to us; it's usually easier and faster for us to chat over the phone rather than here if there are a lot of questions.

To quickly answer a couple of your q's here though:
- Don't worry about USNWR, even if we happen to have the highest one. No one (I ?think lol) uses their US state rankings to determine which state to live in, so why use their med school rankings it to determine which medical school to attend, especially when the spread between your choices is so small.
- We match well in California because regional bias is a thing, from both the applicants' and the residency programs' perspectives, to varying degrees. But you can see our match list this year as always includes your usual MGH, Yale, Hopkins, Mayo, Cornell, etc. etc. for the people who do want to move back East. It's just that most people want to stay in sunny California once they get a taste of it!
- We're not competitive, students share resources and tips all the time, and there is a DGSOM student GoogleDrive containing hundreds of student-made study resources for all four years that students continually add to in order to help classmates/underclassmen. Clinical grades do not have a quota for how many students can honor/high pass. As a sub-I, during one rotation when the MS3s were out of the room, the residents were commenting about how all four currently on the rotation were some of the best they had, so they probably all ended up honoring that one.
- Curriculum is only changing for your year in that you will have more clinical exposure in first two years, otherwise it's the same. It's the following year that is changing to be condensed 1yr preclinical. This will result in an "overlap" clerkship year with more "MS3s" on service, which will likely have pros and cons, but shouldn't be too big a deal really. UCSF just did it 4 years ago, and both of their overlap classes have done fine per both 1st hand accounts from friends/fellow residency interviewees and their match lists.