Dropping Out Of Pharmacy School For Alternative Option?

[Success Seeker]

Hello,

I am currently enrolled in my first year of pharmacy school at a relatively respected institution. I have 4 years of undergraduate coursework completed and gave it a shot to apply to pharmacy school without my bachelor's degree... My undergraduate statistics include a 3.5 GPA as well as a very strong resume filled with community pharmacy experience as well as hospital experience and research, tutoring of Chemistry, working at various locations unrelated to pharmacy as well (I've worked non-stop since I was 16 years old, currently 24).

First, I'd like to mention that I chose to pursue this field since high school because I knew of some successful pharmacists that pushed me to follow their paths. At the time, I was in awe of their lifestyles and fancy cars, etc., and chose to study hard through undergrad. in order to gain acceptance to the pharmacy school of MY choice. I was successful...

Through the past couple of months, I have realized even moreso than I had already known, that this profession is a 'dying profession' and that there is an 'over-saturation of pharmacists'. When I shadowed pharmacists in hospital-settings as well as a community setting, I ignored pharmacists who told me NOT to go to pharmacy school due to the drastic changes that the field is exhibiting at the moment. Still, I decided to keep my tunnel-vision and push to be among those pharmacists who MAKE IT to where they want to be. However, I keep hearing now on a daily basis that new schools are bound to open up, etc. and I can't help but listen to some of what is being said. I understand that even after I graduate that I will potentially land a full-time position SOMEWHERE, regardless of whether or not I'm ABLE to actually be accepted into a residency-program. However, I would prefer to think that I could have the flexibility to move to a non-rural area in order to work and provide for my (future) family. The deadline to drop took without record of enrollment passed approximately two months ago and my Midterm grades suffered tremendously as a result of my lack of motivation for this dwindling field. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I would hope that you could respect and acknowledge that what I have stated include nothing but facts. In addition the terrible market that is bound to only get worse (http://www.post-gazette.com/local/r...rning-out-too-many-grads/stories/201310270094), the profession itself is changing due to all of these chain-pharmacies and due to the Affordable Care Act, etc. I'm starting to feel fed up and I'm not even a practicing pharmacist. In addition to THAT, opportunities to work outside of the USA (only for a couple of years to live abroad and have a change of life) are scarce for pharmacists... Salaries are low outside of the USA.

With approximately 30K in inevitable debt at the moment, I am considering dropping out. Part of the reason that I haven't until now is because I previously felt that I'd feel like I failed myself by leaving, but I now realize that my decision would simply be logical. My alternative choices are Chemical Engineering (I find the field prosperous and interesting with lots of potential) and I considered becoming a Physician or a Dentist as well. I understand that these are contrasting careers, so I'll be precise and mention that my primary alternative option would be Chemical Engineering.

During my undergraduate studies, I majored as a BS in Biology and completed over 130 units (had only a few courses left to graduate, but opted out to go to pharmacy school after acceptance). I am considering an attempt to transfer to a university that offers the Chemical Engineering major, but I fear that my grades during my first Semester of Pharmacy School thus far will hinder my chances. Regardless, I am not sure how much longer it would take to complete a Chemical Engineering degree based on the units and courses that I have completed at the moment (all GE courses completed, at least)... Gen. Chem. I, II, Org. Chem. I, II, Org. Chem. Labs. I, II, Calculus I, Calculus II, and so on.

I am posting on here because I have reached a state of confusion and depression. Friends convinced me that I was over-thinking it when I considered to drop out because I only need to worry about finding ONE position in the future that would provide me with my success as a pharmacist... But I am more interested in clinical pharmacy, which I'm starting to discover is really difficult to come across.

If anyone could please offer some advice regarding anything that I've posted, I'd really, really appreciate it. As for the cynical SDN-posters who are over-reactive and sarcastic, I'd appreciate it if you could refrain from posting as I am in a seriously tough situation mentally at the moment. Thanks in advance for your assistance during this tough time.

I look forward to hearing from anyone that could lend some advice. Thanks.

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[BMBiology]

Can you drop your classes and get a "W"?

 

[YoAyDri]

I understand your frustration, and pessimism about pharmacy. Its a fair assessment and you are making a gut decision. Heres the thing though, have you fully thought over your choice of chemical engineering?

Serious question, and im intrigued ot hear your answer. You are already in debt, and have to go back to school and accumulating MORE debt to graduate in a field that really doesnt offer any spectacular job security either. You will be competing with Bachelors, PhDs, and even Masters candidates in this field. I suggest if you go this route, you try getting into a TOP engineering school in the country. Example Ga Tech, and i guarantee you find a job right out assuming you finish. The money isnt going to be great starting (on average) but down the road you have respectable earning potential. My two cents man. Good luck.

 

[Success Seeker]

Can you drop your classes and get a "W"?

Tomorrow (10/28) is the last day to withdraw.

 

[Success Seeker]

I understand your frustration, and pessimism about pharmacy. Its a fair assessment and you are making a gut decision. Heres the thing though, have you fully thought over your choice of chemical engineering?

Serious question, and im intrigued ot hear your answer. You are already in debt, and have to go back to school and accumulating MORE debt to graduate in a field that really doesnt offer any spectacular job security either. You will be competing with Bachelors, PhDs, and even Masters candidates in this field. I suggest if you go this route, you try getting into a TOP engineering school in the country. Example Ga Tech, and i guarantee you find a job right out assuming you finish. The money isnt going to be great starting (on average) but down the road you have respectable earning potential. My two cents man. Good luck.

I have fully thought about my choice regarding Chemical Engineering. To be honest with you, my alternative for a while was to apply to medical school... And frankly, I could get into medical school. Many of my friends were accepted and my statistics are technically 'better'. However, Chemistry is appealing to me and Chemical Engineering is a good fit - Interesting field, it's in demand, good salary, good outlook, potential overseas as well.

I am in debt, yes. 30K is a lot of wasted time and money... I'm really angry that this debt has accumulated, but there is nothing that I can do except pay it back. Those loan agencies do everything they can to squeeze every penny back... Which field are you in? It doesn't show under your user-name. Yes, I will only have a Bachelor's degree in ChE, but the demand is high for that particular field of engineering based on my knowledge and research. And the job-satisfaction seems to be much higher than that of a pharmacist. I'd definitely try to be accepted to a top-tier Chemical Engineering program. This is if they even accept me after I've already completed 130 units or so.

It's really frustrating too because I used to see pharmacists as really respected healthcare professionals who were highly intelligent and and helped patients, had great salaries, etc. Now, I see a bunch of money-hungry diploma-mills opening up across the country, pumping out students with low GPAs who don't deserve to receive INTERVIEWS to pharmacy school. It's really, really depressing. Then again, you do have students with 4.0 GPAs who pursue pharmacy school, but those students are rare OR have a plan already in mind, such as working with their parents who are pharmacists, etc. Until this day, I haven't met a pharmacy student with a 3.5+ GPA who knew they wanted to be pharmacists since they were younger and worked hard to get in AND ARE SATISFIED with their choice. I know of several students who regret being in pharmacy school already, one of which dropped out primarily due to the rigorous curriculum, which isn't a respectable reason in my opinion (had a 3.9 GPA from a UC in California). But I'm starting to think that he was probably right... And sane, after all.

 

[Success Seeker]

Please keep the responses coming.

 

[rph3664]

My advice is to finish the semester but do not pursue further studies in this program. As for your 30K in loans, the education will not be wasted if you pursue ANY of the fields you're interested in. If you do become a physician or a dentist, the pharmaceutical knowledge you've picked up will be quite valuable, and as for chemical engineering, heck, ANYTHING'S valuable, I guess.

Keep us posted WRT what you end up doing.

 

[Success Seeker]

My advice is to finish the semester but do not pursue further studies in this program. As for your 30K in loans, the education will not be wasted if you pursue ANY of the fields you're interested in. If you do become a physician or a dentist, the pharmaceutical knowledge you've picked up will be quite valuable, and as for chemical engineering, heck, ANYTHING'S valuable, I guess.

Keep us posted WRT what you end up doing.

Wish I had known that today is the last day to withdraw... My pride won't let me make that decision today. I feel like I need to prove that I earned my way here, whereas many students were accepted through connections.

This site used to show ppl's professions... Are you all pharmacists responding? It's frustrating too because nobody tells me I'm wrong. What a joke... Same applies to dentists in certain areas, optometrists, and lawyers. Diploma-mills and money-hungry individuals lie to students telling them that their futures are set, etc. Those students who scrape in wouldn't have made it years ago... We are talking about patient-CARE here. This isn't a game.

 

[fewaopi]

Tough decision, especially because it's life changing. I feel particularly bad for those wanting to do clinical pharmacy or residencies since they're mostly employed in hospitals and there are only so many and they are losing reimbursement from Obamacare with VBP (to be made up by more insured but we'll have to see). I don't think clinical has a good immediate future but 4 years down, who knows what might change depending on if pharmacy can unite and fight for more roles and importance like nursing (uncertain future). Retail might benefit as more insured patients will get more Rx's and more baby boomers retire. Drug spending should go up with Obamacare, but less branded meds maybe. Important to note that there are baby boomers who are pharmacists so those jobs could be freed up. But with all the fees in 401Ks and need to work longer in life, it's hard to gauge for sure if they'll leave their jobs if they haven't already been forced out.

As someone nearing graduation, and if I got to go back into your shoes, and not taking money into account, I think I would change fields. I've sort of realized that pharmacists are either just helping scripts go through or are just walking guidelines. I have definitely seen areas in hospitals where clinical pharmacists do play a role, especially ID, and I've been on medical teams where MDs say they would rather have more pharmacists than nurses to help them because MDs can do what nurses can anyway and nurses can't help them with guiding therapy. Clinical pharmacists are like highbeam headlights maybe then for a doctor? I found clinical pharmacists to have an important role, but I can't see a whole demand for them like in retail because there are only so many hospitals, which is why I feel bad for the many going into residency. Only way hospitals would hire more is if hospitals can prove hiring a pharmacist would save the hospital more money (less ADEs, shorter hospital stay, better outcomes, less readmissions, etc)and they won't hire so many. Retail it's hard to say, they're always understaffed, overworked, but if more people are kept outside hospitals, more are getting meds from retail.

But I can honestly see software and computers replace pharmacy in the future. You could upload all pharmacy knowledge and program it so that there will be minimal drug interactions, side effects, etc, though this is years, decades away maybe. And if that was possible, a lot of medicine can be replaced to, because there are only so many diseases and they'll all have their own presentations.

I can't really speak for engineering as I don't know much about it but I feel like engineers will always be in demand because I imagine it as a more creative process. You're making stuff, creating new things, and it's literally infinite because you're not bound by all the limitations of human bodies, regulations, and ethics so it's much easier and more rapid to make advances. Plus with more focus for American computer scientists and engineers to make robots, etc, it just seems limitless. I don't know much about chemical engineering though, I've heard mixed things. I wouldn't consider dentistry either because I heard it's worse than pharmacy in terms of job prospects but who knows. If dental care is taken more seriously and more are covered, then maybe there's a future for them.

It's hard to make out a clear view for what pharmacy will be like but seems like right now and for a while, it's going to look pretty grim. But the same can happen to other fields as well. Maybe not engineering because so many of us suck at math, but you have to consider outsourcing and immigrants, engineers from other countries who will come in and compete with you too. I understand that it's hard to pick a field because you don't know what the job prospects will be like when you graduate. I entered pharmacy when it seemed great and in 5 years it's all changed. You can't go wrong with doing your best wherever you go, then you'll be bound to land somewhere you're happy with. Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[Success Seeker]

Tough decision, especially because it's life changing. I feel particularly bad for those wanting to do clinical pharmacy or residencies since they're mostly employed in hospitals and there are only so many and they are losing reimbursement from Obamacare with VBP (to be made up by more insured but we'll have to see). I don't think clinical has a good immediate future but 4 years down, who knows what might change depending on if pharmacy can unite and fight for more roles and importance like nursing (uncertain future). Retail might benefit as more insured patients will get more Rx's and more baby boomers retire. Drug spending should go up with Obamacare, but less branded meds maybe. Important to note that there are baby boomers who are pharmacists so those jobs could be freed up. But with all the fees in 401Ks and need to work longer in life, it's hard to gauge for sure if they'll leave their jobs if they haven't already been forced out.

As someone nearing graduation, and if I got to go back into your shoes, and not taking money into account, I think I would change fields. I've sort of realized that pharmacists are either just helping scripts go through or are just walking guidelines. I have definitely seen areas in hospitals where clinical pharmacists do play a role, especially ID, and I've been on medical teams where MDs say they would rather have more pharmacists than nurses to help them because MDs can do what nurses can anyway and nurses can't help them with guiding therapy. Clinical pharmacists are like highbeam headlights maybe then for a doctor? I found clinical pharmacists to have an important role, but I can't see a whole demand for them like in retail because there are only so many hospitals, which is why I feel bad for the many going into residency. Only way hospitals would hire more is if hospitals can prove hiring a pharmacist would save the hospital more money (less ADEs, shorter hospital stay, better outcomes, less readmissions, etc)and they won't hire so many. Retail it's hard to say, they're always understaffed, overworked, but if more people are kept outside hospitals, more are getting meds from retail.

But I can honestly see software and computers replace pharmacy in the future. You could upload all pharmacy knowledge and program it so that there will be minimal drug interactions, side effects, etc, though this is years, decades away maybe. And if that was possible, a lot of medicine can be replaced to, because there are only so many diseases and they'll all have their own presentations.

I can't really speak for engineering as I don't know much about it but I feel like engineers will always be in demand because I imagine it as a more creative process. You're making stuff, creating new things, and it's literally infinite because you're not bound by all the limitations of human bodies, regulations, and ethics so it's much easier and more rapid to make advances. Plus with more focus for American computer scientists and engineers to make robots, etc, it just seems limitless. I don't know much about chemical engineering though, I've heard mixed things. I wouldn't consider dentistry either because I heard it's worse than pharmacy in terms of job prospects but who knows. If dental care is taken more seriously and more are covered, then maybe there's a future for them.

It's hard to make out a clear view for what pharmacy will be like but seems like right now and for a while, it's going to look pretty grim. But the same can happen to other fields as well. Maybe not engineering because so many of us suck at math, but you have to consider outsourcing and immigrants, engineers from other countries who will come in and compete with you too. I understand that it's hard to pick a field because you don't know what the job prospects will be like when you graduate. I entered pharmacy when it seemed great and in 5 years it's all changed. You can't go wrong with doing your best wherever you go, then you'll be bound to land somewhere you're happy with. Hope this helps. Good luck.

Thanks for your reply. So what you're essentially saying is that you are almost a PharmD and that if you could go back, you would not pursue a PharmD. This is something that I've noticed tends to be a strong trend with pharmacists... Why do they regret it so much when it pays so well? I rarely hear of MD's or DDS's, etc. saying that they regret going into their profession because it was their passion. I do not understand why these ****-pharmacy schools keep opening up and why they accept pharmacy school rejects who don't deserve to be our pharmacy technicians, let alone pharmacists. It's really frustrating and it's sickening how inspired I used to be to try to be the best in undergrad. while having pre-medical students always asking me to tutor them and now be in a situation where I'm looking at a field with a "grim" future... And if I'm this disappointed with the field now, there's no telling how I'll feel about it if I stay in pharmacy school and have to put up with this bull-**** for a few more years, only to STRUGGLE TO FIND WORK WITH A DOCTORATE DEGREE (Wtf)... And then basically abide by the rules of individuals from corporate who are accounting-majors, etc.

 

[Chriskahn]

I think you are wrong. I would give my left testicle to get into the pharmacy school of my choice. And once I'm in there's no way in hell I'm screwing it up either. I say stick with it. There are more options than just retail and clinical. I currently work at a privately owned compounding pharmacy and there is so much more to it than just filling vials full of rx. And the whole high gpa thing is BS. The owner of my pharmacy has dyslexia and got into pharmacy school with a 3.2 gpa. The reason he got in is because he is passionate and hard working, not because of his gpa. Look where he is now, he owns his own business and is making millions. He is unlike the majority of people who seek this career just for the salary. If you want to be a pharmacist just because of the high salary then I say go ahead and quit because you will most likely hate your job. But if you are truly passionate about it (sounds like you are by what you are saying) then stick with it.

 

[Success Seeker]

I think you are wrong. I would give my left testicle to get into the pharmacy school of my choice. And once I'm in there's no way in hell I'm screwing it up either. I say stick with it. There are more options than just retail and clinical. I currently work at a privately owned compounding pharmacy and there is so much more to it than just filling vials full of rx. And the whole high gpa thing is BS. The owner of my pharmacy has dyslexia and got into pharmacy school with a 3.2 gpa. The reason he got in is because he is passionate and hard working, not because of his gpa. Look where he is now, he owns his own business and is making millions. He is unlike the majority of people who seek this career just for the salary. If you want to be a pharmacist just because of the high salary then I say go ahead and quit because you will most likely hate your job. But if you are truly passionate about it (sounds like you are by what you are saying) then stick with it.

No offense to you and I don't mean to insult you any way, but based on your post alone, I assume that you have a low GPA. Regarding the rest of your post, I would like to acknowledge the fact that you are shadowing an INDEPENDENT PHARMACIST. This is very rare... Yes, if driven enough, I could become a neurosurgeon... Anyone can if their GPA is high enough and their drive is ridiculously intense. But I like to think that if I'm entering a field which demands 8 years of education (excluding the uncessary diploma-mills who pump out pharmacists in 5, 6 years), then I should be able to be guaranteed a career. Do you ever hear of physicians looking for work? Do you ever hear of surgeons looking for work? Dentists (excluding large metropolitan areas)? NO! There is a reason for this... It's because this profession is ran by money-hungry sell-out pharmacists who trade their self-respect for a dollar in order to feel powerful by controlling new pharmacy-graduates; it is also because this profession is ran by individuals who aren't even that educated. I was at a career-fair recently and a representative of a particular 'pharmacy opportunity' was a lady who didn't even graduate from college. What a joke... Who is she to hire a doctoral-level individual? I'm sure she's a nice lady... Maybe she's brilliant, too... But based on her credentials alone, it's frustrating to see her smug expression while she felt that she had power over us because we're pharmacy students. And they way that she spoke of the profession by saying things like, "Oh, if you work for us, you won't have to count by 5's. We have our pharmacists take time to counsel our patients.", etc. Get out of here with that bull-****... Talking like she owns pharmacists. She knows nothing of what healthcare is all about and I was ashamed for the profession to have her in our presence.

Again, no disrespect to the previous poster. I'm pleased to see that you have proper grammar at least, which indicates that you're potentially a really smart person. Lol. And you sound passionate about the field, but keep in mind that you are working for an independently own pharmacy and as a result, your opinion is (no offense) skewed. I used to feel the same way while shadowing a Primary Care Pharmacist. And I wouldn't believe everything that your multimillionaire pharmacist is telling you either because (no offense), but the field has and will continue to drastically change. Best of luck to you and thanks again for your comment.

 

[Success Seeker]

I agree 100% with this. I too worked at a independent compounding pharmacy and loved it. I hope to own my own someday.

I also agree that hard work and passion trumps GPA. Since when does GPA determine work ethic? Not every person with a low GPA has bad work ethic. My GPA suffered slightly because I had to work 30+ hours a week, volunteer at a hospital, go to school full time (year round), while being involved in sports. I go to a big university with 40,000+ students and see tons of people who have their parents pay for everything. They can get 3.8-4.0 GPA's because they have nothing else to do but study, yet they have no actual work ethic outside of getting a good grade.

Passion and hark work trumps everything.

I respect that you work hard. I, too, worked ~20 hours per week during undergrad. and maintained a decent 3.5 GPA. But you seem to be missing the overall point of this conversation. I never stated that GPA illustrates one's work ethic, nor did I mention that passion wasn't important.

 

[Startupkid]

I respect that you work hard. I, too, worked ~20 hours per week during undergrad. and maintained a decent 3.5 GPA. But you seem to be missing the overall point I'd this conversation. I never said that GOA illustrates one's work ethic nor did I say that passion wasn't important.

I felt like maybe you were implying it though. But i'd say if you're worried about getting a job in the future....stick it out because if you know you're hard working, you'll find something. On the other hand, If you know you won't like the field, decide now. Follow your heart and you'l never regret it.

 

[Startupkid]

I think you are wrong. I would give my left testicle to get into the pharmacy school of my choice. And once I'm in there's no way in hell I'm screwing it up either. I say stick with it. There are more options than just retail and clinical. I currently work at a privately owned compounding pharmacy and there is so much more to it than just filling vials full of rx. And the whole high gpa thing is BS. The owner of my pharmacy has dyslexia and got into pharmacy school with a 3.2 gpa. The reason he got in is because he is passionate and hard working, not because of his gpa. Look where he is now, he owns his own business and is making millions. He is unlike the majority of people who seek this career just for the salary. If you want to be a pharmacist just because of the high salary then I say go ahead and quit because you will most likely hate your job. But if you are truly passionate about it (sounds like you are by what you are saying) then stick with it.

I agree 100% with this. I too worked at a independent compounding pharmacy and loved it. I hope to own my own someday.

I also agree that hard work and passion trumps GPA. Since when does GPA determine work ethic? Not every person with a low GPA has bad work ethic. My GPA suffered slightly because I had to work 30+ hours a week, volunteer at a hospital, go to school full time (year round), while being involved in sports. I go to a big university with 40,000+ students and see tons of people who have their parents pay for everything. They can get 3.8-4.0 GPA's because they have nothing else to do but study, yet they have no actual work ethic outside of getting a good grade.

Passion and hark work trumps everything.

 

[Success Seeker]

I felt like maybe you were implying it though. But i'd say if you're worried about getting a job in the future....stick it out because if you know you're hard working, you'll find something. On the other hand, If you know you won't like the field, decide now. Follow your heart and you'l never regret it.

The field is fine to an extent, but I'm not surprised by the fact that you're not too familiar with some of the negative aspects of the changing field. For example, the growth of all of these chain-pharmacies (who many pharmacists despise) prevent individuals like us to open our own pharmacy.... However, it is possible of course. But good luck beating chain-prices. Your best bet is to take over your independent pharmacist's current location and make money off of his current customers (patients). As far as hospital pharmacy goes, those jobs are scarce and in my opinion, aren't very secure because hospitals have every right to simply cut pharmacists off when they need to cut down on payroll. With a lower GPA (I understand that it's not completely your fault, etc.), pharmacy is a good option if you want money and think that your passion is medications and counting by 5's. But with a higher GPA, more options tend to be available such as medicine, dentistry, PA, and even going back to engineering, etc. When I applied, I had the belief that everyone going in were top-notch students who want to be pharmacists like I did. But now I realize the corruption involved in the field and all of the politics that go into it by accepting students who have lower GPA's and haven't worked a day in their lives. It's frustrating. As far as "following" my heart, I don't think that it's that simple to just turn away from the profession that I worked hard to be involved with for 4 years of undergrad. But it's looking like something I will have to do for the sake of my future kids and family because I don't want to be stuck with 200K in debt and be enslaved by a chain-pharmacy who has the right to cut me off at any given moment or only work me 24 hours/week at which point I will have to take the initiative of looking for another part-time position to make up for 40 hours per week, at least. It's pretty ridiculous out there.

Please read... It's potentially for your own good and for those that you may be required to provide for in the future: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/ind...-14-000-15-000-new-graduates-in-2016.1039258/

 

[Startupkid]

The field is fine to an extent, but I'm not surprised by the fact that you're not too familiar with some of the negative aspects of the changing field. For example, the growth of all of these chain-pharmacies (who many pharmacists despise) prevent individuals like us to open our own pharmacy.... However, it is possible of course. But good luck beating chain-prices. Your best bet is to take over your independent pharmacist's current location and make money off of his current customers (patients). As far as hospital pharmacy goes, those jobs are scarce and in my opinion, aren't very secure because hospitals have every right to simply cut pharmacists off when they need to cut down on payroll. With a lower GPA (I understand that it's not completely your fault, etc.), pharmacy is a good option if you want money and think that your passion is medications and counting by 5's. But with a higher GPA, more options tend to be available such as medicine, dentistry, PA, and even going back to engineering, etc. When I applied, I had the belief that everyone going in were top-notch students who want to be pharmacists like I did. But now I realize the corruption involved in the field and all of the politics that go into it by accepting students who have lower GPA's and haven't worked a day in their lives. It's frustrating. As far as "following" my heart, I don't think that it's that simple to just turn away from the profession that I worked hard to be involved with for 4 years of undergrad. But it's looking like something I will have to do for the sake of my future kids and family because I don't want to be stuck with 200K in debt and be enslaved by a chain-pharmacy who has the right to cut me off at any given moment or only work me 24 hours/week at which point I will have to take the initiative of looking for another part-time position to make up for 40 hours per week, at least. It's pretty ridiculous out there.

Please read... It's potentially for your own good and for those that you may be required to provide for in the future: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/ind...-14-000-15-000-new-graduates-in-2016.1039258/

Im aware of all that. First of all, once I started working, I realized that 80% of people are lazy and don't care about their work. That's in any field whether you believe it or not. It's up to YOU to make a difference in whatever field you decide. I bet when you first did your undergrad you thought everyone around you would be these smart and super motivated people that would be super successful no matter what they did. Then after your first year you realize "Wow, most people here are lazy." At least that's the conclusion I came to.

All that article means is that pursuing pharmacy isn't like it used to be, meaning -> "100% of grads get a job in first year..". Every field is basically really competitive and saturated unless you become a MD/DO or RN. For example, are you familiar with why an RN is always in demand? because it has a high turnover rate.

We have to quit feeling that we are entitled to certain things. I know this because I thought the same exact way. Your going to have to work your butt off to get anything in this world. Will the job market be bad? - Most likely. Are you going to let it determine your fate? - Up to you. "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

 

[Success Seeker]

Im aware of all that. First of all, once I started working, I realized that 80% of people are lazy and don't care about their work. That's in any field whether you believe it or not. It's up to YOU to make a difference in whatever field you decide. I bet when you first did your undergrad you thought everyone around you would be these smart and super motivated people that would be super successful no matter what they did. Then after your first year you realize "Wow, most people here are lazy." At least that's the conclusion I came to.

All that article means is that pursuing pharmacy isn't like it used to be, meaning -> "100% of grads get a job in first year..". Every field is basically really competitive and saturated unless you become a MD/DO or RN. For example, are you familiar with why an RN is always in demand? because it has a high turnover rate.

We have to quit feeling that we are entitled to certain things. I know this because I thought the same exact way. Your going to have to work your butt off to get anything in this world. Will the job market be bad? - Most likely. Are you going to let it determine your fate? - Up to you. "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

LOL. I don't know who you are, but this conversation is depressing because it's as if I'm talking to a version of myself from 1 year ago. If you decide to make it into pharmacy school, which I'm sure you will make it since anyone can these days (even ****-students who don't deserve to touch healthcare), then you'll wake up to a cold reality in pharmacy school because your class of 100-220 students or so will consist of students who fell back on pharmacy as a second career-choice or simply have a plan such as taking over their daddy's pharmacies. And those students will all be at or above your level... All they will do is study while they are awake and they are so fully focused on getting straight A's that it's ridiculous and inhumane. I talk to some of them and ask, "Why pharmacy?". Their response is typically that they shadowed an independent pharmacist, want money, are grossed out by blood and like healthcare, or were told by their parents to choose this field. I really, really hope that you are successful in whatever you choose and I doubt that my posts are going to sway your opinion (because I ignored countless amounts of pharmacists that I shadowed who told me not to apply to pharmacy school and rather, go to medical school), but I'm hoping that you wake up and see the reality. Those students who come out of diploma-mill pharmacy schools will have the same degree as you and their grades will match yours. Maybe you're a hard-worker, but maybe the girl out of pharmacy school will be hotter than you (I'm assuming you're a male, Idk) and the employer will probably take her since the employer is likely not even a pharmacist himself/herself. And the effort that you will be putting into pharmacy school could be poured into ANY major and you'll make bank, so don't let money be a factor. Please don't let money be a factor. Would you do it if it paid 55K per year? Think about that.

 

[Startupkid]

LOL. I don't know who you are, but this conversation is depressing because it's as if I'm talking to a version of myself from 1 year ago. If you decide to make it into pharmacy school, which I'm sure you will make it since anyone can these days (even ****-students who don't deserve to touch healthcare), then you'll wake up to a cold reality in pharmacy school because your class of 100-220 students or so will consist of students who fell back on pharmacy as a second career-choice or simply have a plan such as taking over their daddy's pharmacies. And those students will all be at or above your level... All they will do is study while they are awake and they are so fully focused on getting straight A's that it's ridiculous and inhumane. I talk to some of them and ask, "Why pharmacy?". Their response is typically that they shadowed an independent pharmacist, want money, are grossed out by blood and like healthcare, or were told by their parents to choose this field. I really, really hope that you are successful in whatever you choose and I doubt that my posts are going to sway your opinion (because I ignored countless amounts of pharmacists that I shadowed who told me not to apply to pharmacy school and rather, go to medical school), but I'm hoping that you wake up and see the reality. Those students who come out of diploma-mill pharmacy schools will have the same degree as you and their grades will match yours. Maybe you're a hard-worker, but maybe the girl out of pharmacy school will be hotter than you (I'm assuming you're a male, Idk) and the employer will probably take her since the employer is likely not even a pharmacist himself/herself. And the effort that you will be putting into pharmacy school could be poured into ANY major and you'll make bank, so don't let money be a factor. Please don't let money be a factor. Would you do it if it paid 55K per year? Think about that.

I could say a lot, but I have a simple question first. If your interested in clinical pharmacy (from your first post), why don't you just give it a shot and pursue it? Is it because its " hard to come by"? Is that seriously the only reason? Are you willing to give up just like that because it's hard? There are special jobs out there in any field for people who are driven. Seems to me like your smart but you want things to be easy and handed to you. I'm not trying to tear you down, i'm trying to build you up man.

And why do you care why other people got into pharmacy? What does that have to do with pursuing what you want?

 

[Success Seeker]

I could say a lot, but I have a simple question first. If your interested in clinical pharmacy (from your first post), why don't you just give it a shot and pursue it? Is it because its " hard to come by"? Is that seriously the only reason? Are you willing to give up just like that because it's hard? There are special jobs out there in any field for people who are driven. Seems to me like your smart but you want things to be easy and handed to you. I'm not trying to tear you down, i'm trying to build you up man.

And why do you care why other people got into pharmacy? What does that have to do with pursuing what you want?

Clinical pharmacy is interesting, but opportunities are scarce. Of course it's doable... Like I said earlier, we could become the top-ranked neurosurgeons on Earth if we really want to (I use this career as an example because a friend of mine is applying to medical school to pursue this route)... But clinical pharmacy is interesting in some cases that are already extremely saturated and no longer are open. Pharmacists aren't retiring either. And you can't tear me down or build me up, but I do feel like you have not done your fair share of real research (see the link that I posted earlier for just a glimpse of the reality of the profession).

I don't care about why people are doing it. I care about how they are doing it... Students on the pre-pharmacy forums are posting about having 2.7 GPAs and getting into pharmacy school. This makes me feel like I tried way too hard in undergrad. I gave up my entire social life only to be sitting next to students who don't deserve to be anywhere near the same field as me... Forget that. Again, I understand that GPA doesn't illustrate knowledge or work ethic, but find me multiple examples of such scenarios in the pre-medical or pre-dental forums. There aren't many! Wonder why? It's because this field is saturated, schools are opening up and accepting rejects, and pharmacy schools lie to you until you hit the job market and are stuck with debt and are faced with the reality of it all.

I'm going to challenge you to do something: Go to numerous pharmacists in a random community and walk up to pharmacists of various settings. Tell them you're a prospective pharmacy student and ask them what they think of the profession and where it's heading. You will be surprised that they will offer you real, honest advice that will match exactly what I am telling you. I did not post on here to dissuade others from pursuing pharmacy, but rather, I was looking for advice as to whether or not I should. After reading through some of these forums including my own, I'm starting to feel like leaving would unfortunately be a smarter decision for my future potential family. And it would suck to have an 18-year old kid say that he/she wants to be like me, and I'd have to tell him/her not to pursue my profession because it died down even before I pursued it, but I was too naive to listen to all of the intellectuals who advised me otherwise. And I'd still be paying off my loans while trying to attempt to cover some of my kids' college-tuitions.

 

[yoko07]

I don't know if it's just me but I get the feeling that the OP is trying to get people not to go to pharmacy school. I see these posts from time to time and they always confuse me. I don't understand why an individual would try to steer others away from what they want to do. If you went to pharmacy school and realized that you don't want to be a pharmacist, that is alright. Just accept that and move on with your life. When it comes down to it, that's really the point to this whole story isn't it? You realized that you don't want to be a pharmacist. Now why do you want to try to ruin it for other students? I don't understand why humans have a tendency to do that. Just do what you want to do in your life and be quiet about it. Do not come onto a site with many aspiring pharmacy students and start trashing their profession/goals. It's quite rude and selfish.

For my fellow future pharmacists, he makes some good points. It was unnecessary for him to initiate a harangue on the negative aspects of attempting to become a pharmacist....but still some valid points. The truth is if you're good at what you do, there's always going to be a job for you. People used to bring up the same argument about being a doctor...a nurse...a radiology technician...a pharmacy technician...etc. There will always be individuals trying to steer people away from bettering their lives. Why does that happen? No idea. Pharmacy school is not for the wary, you have to be at least 90% sure this is what you want to do haha. If your dream is to become a pharmacist and you know you can do it, that should be enough. Don't let the doubts of others divert your path.

For the OP, you're right. Pharmacy school isn't for you. Don't waste anymore of your time at this "relatively respected institution". You've already made your decision. Go become a chemical engineer. My brother is actually a chemical engineer. Very lucrative and exciting job. He loves it. Hopefully you will love it.

 

[Success Seeker]

I don't know if it's just me but I get the feeling that the OP is trying to get people not to go to pharmacy school. I see these posts from time to time and they always confuse me. I don't understand why an individual would try to steer others away from what they want to do. If you went to pharmacy school and realized that you don't want to be a pharmacist, that is alright. Just accept that and move on with your life. When it comes down to it, that's really the point to this whole story isn't it? You realized that you don't want to be a pharmacist. Now why do you want to try to ruin it for other students? I don't understand why humans have a tendency to do that. Just do what you want to do in your life and be quiet about it. Do not come onto a site with many aspiring pharmacy students and start trashing their profession/goals. It's quite rude and selfish.

For my fellow future pharmacists, he makes some good points. It was unnecessary for him to initiate a harangue on the negative aspects of attempting to become a pharmacist....but still some valid points. The truth is if you're good at what you do, there's always going to be a job for you. People used to bring up the same argument about being a doctor...a nurse...a radiology technician...a pharmacy technician...etc. There will always be individuals trying to steer people away from bettering their lives. Why does that happen? No idea. Pharmacy school is not for the wary, you have to be at least 90% sure this is what you want to do haha. If your dream is to become a pharmacist and you know you can do it, that should be enough. Don't let the doubts of others divert your path.

For the OP, you're right. Pharmacy school isn't for you. Don't waste anymore of your time at this "relatively respected institution". You've already made your decision. Go become a chemical engineer. My brother is actually a chemical engineer. Very lucrative and exciting job. He loves it. Hopefully you will love it.

Such a rebel. You must feel like a real boss for coming in and talking about how human-beings try to bring others down (I was trying to bring an individual UP into medical or dental school) while you essentially insulted my passion for the profession. As for quoting me with "relatively respected institution", you're damn right. It's one of the top pharmacy schools in the country, but I'd rather keep that anonymous. No, people don't worry about the market for a doctor or nurse. Please do research before you spill false facts on a thread of mine, at least. They're essentially guaranteed jobs right as soon as they grab their degree-certificate. Maybe you'll wake up when you're in pharmacy school with your 90% certainty that this is what you want with your life. And I'd like to re-emphasize that I'm not trying to bring anyone down... I went into pharmacy thinking that I'd actually be able to help people. But now that I realize how powerless they really are, I'm helping people to stay away through this thread. I'm thinking that maybe someone will read these and choose to be successful instead... Unless they have 2.4 GPAs, suck academically, party every weekend, pretend that they have a valid excuse for their sh**** grades, throw that excuse onto their personal statement, apply to pharmacy school, and get accepted to a diploma-mill and feel like they're successful during their White Coat Ceremonies and that their hard work, or lack thereof, paid off. Kudos to your brother for making a great career-decision.

 

[Startupkid]

Clinical pharmacy is interesting, but opportunities are scarce. Of course it's doable... Like I said earlier, we could become the top-ranked neurosurgeons on Earth if we really want to (I use this career as an example because a friend of mine is applying to medical school to pursue this route)... But clinical pharmacy is interesting in some cases that are already extremely saturated and no longer are open. Pharmacists aren't retiring either. And you can't tear me down or build me up, but I do feel like you have not done your fair share of real research (see the link that I posted earlier for just a glimpse of the reality of the profession).

I don't care about why people are doing it. I care about how they are doing it... Students on the pre-pharmacy forums are posting about having 2.7 GPAs and getting into pharmacy school. This makes me feel like I tried way too hard in undergrad. I gave up my entire social life only to be sitting next to students who don't deserve to be anywhere near the same field as me... Forget that. Again, I understand that GPA doesn't illustrate knowledge or work ethic, but find me multiple examples of such scenarios in the pre-medical or pre-dental forums. There aren't many! Wonder why? It's because this field is saturated, schools are opening up and accepting rejects, and pharmacy schools lie to you until you hit the job market and are stuck with debt and are faced with the reality of it all.

I'm going to challenge you to do something: Go to numerous pharmacists in a random community and walk up to pharmacists of various settings. Tell them you're a prospective pharmacy student and ask them what they think of the profession and where it's heading. You will be surprised that they will offer you real, honest advice that will match exactly what I am telling you. I did not post on here to dissuade others from pursuing pharmacy, but rather, I was looking for advice as to whether or not I should. After reading through some of these forums including my own, I'm starting to feel like leaving would unfortunately be a smarter decision for my future potential family. And it would suck to have an 18-year old kid say that he/she wants to be like me, and I'd have to tell him/her not to pursue my profession because it died down even before I pursued it, but I was too naive to listen to all of the intellectuals who advised me otherwise. And I'd still be paying off my loans while trying to attempt to cover some of my kids' college-tuitions.

Again, why do you care HOW or WHY or what or where, etc. someone is doing something??

I'm really not going to waste my time typing a novel here.. You can say whatever you want but it all boils down to one thing - If you want to pursue something, then man up and pursue it. Worried about failing? - don't give up. Worried about debt? - Figure out a way to make more money. Don't be paralyzed by fear.

It's all soooo simple! Yet we want to complicate things so we have an excuse if things don't work out how we planned. I feel sorry for you man, but I hope you know that you can be successful in anything if you set your mind to it. Sounds cliche, but you and me both know it's the truest statement there is.

 

[Success Seeker]

Again, why do you care HOW or WHY or what or where, etc. someone is doing something??

I'm really not going to waste my time typing a novel here.. You can say whatever you want but it all boils down to one thing - If you want to pursue something, then man up and pursue it. Worried about failing? - don't give up. Worried about debt? - Figure out a way to make more money. Don't be paralyzed by fear.

It's all soooo simple! Yet we want to complicate things so we have an excuse if things don't work out how we planned. I feel sorry for you man, but I hope you know that you can be successful in anything if you set your mind to it. Sounds cliche, but you and me both know it's the truest statement there is.

Feel sorry for me? LOL oh man, that's great. Thanks for that, I appreciate it. But I've been through more in the past few years than you have probably in your lifetime, so I'm not surprised that you can't intellectually and realistically comprehend the wise advice that I'm giving you before you f*** everything up for yourself. I guess that's what happens when you care too much. Just like a typical patient... You try to help them and they'll yell in your face and blame you for sh** that isn't your fault... Human-nature.

I'm not complicating anything... You're definitely over-simplifying everything though. Good luck making a 200K investment blindly, really.

I swear to you... I'm sitting in a lecture right now and my professor is saying that our class is the brightest in the country. For the past 21 minutes, she's been talking about our history and throwing in words like provider-status and how we all should strive to be clinical pharmacists. And then an idiot raises his/her hand and asks an irrelevant question to illustrate that they're smart to which the professor replies, "Wonderful question!" and then rambles on about her past-experiences. Then again, although you worked your *** off in undergrad., your GPA is low. I have yet to see an HONEST argument from a prospective medical or dental-level (former pharmacy-school level) applicant that illustrated a true passion for pharmacy with statistics that could get them into any medical/dental/pharmacy school in the country.

 

[yoko07]

Success seeker, I'm not being a rebel. I'm just telling you the truth. This is the last thing I'll say about this. Just in case I had you wrong and you really aren't a troll. We get it, you're a smart guy. You go to "one of the top pharmacy schools in the country". The thing is, just because you are smart doesn't mean you can't also be a jerk. Your thread isn't attempting to help people. It is serving one selfish need to blast the pharmacy profession. Your posts, they don't seem like they come from the mind of an intellectual individual. They come off more like bullying. And if you don't realize that, ask your other intelligent friends to read some of the things you've been posting here as well as in other threads. Ask some of your professors to read how you trash your fellow colleagues (ex-colleagues). Anyway, I'm wasting my time. Good luck to you in your future endeavors. Hope you find happiness that allows you to go through life without the necessity of putting others down.

 

[Success Seeker]

Before I sound like my previous post was insulting in any way, I'm just trying to say that yes, the statistics of applicants matter. Those are our future classmates and colleagues for years to come.When any profession's salaries, demand, and expectations for their professional programs go down, it's not a good thing. And those students who didn't work a day in their lives and have much lower GPAs simply due to partying all the time (which they somewhat continue to do in pharmacy school, which I guess is expected) will compete for YOUR spot. We've been told at career-fairs that 544 pharmacy applications are sent in for 19 positions in the district, etc.

 

[Success Seeker]

Success seeker, I'm not being a rebel. I'm just telling you the truth. This is the last thing I'll say about this. Just in case I had you wrong and you really aren't a troll. We get it, you're a smart guy. You go to "one of the top pharmacy schools in the country". The thing is, just because you are smart doesn't mean you can't also be a jerk. Your thread isn't attempting to help people. It is serving one selfish need to blast the pharmacy profession. Your posts, they don't seem like they come from the mind of an intellectual individual. They come off more like bullying. And if you don't realize that, ask your other intelligent friends to read some of the things you've been posting here as well as in other threads. Ask some of your professors to read how you trash your fellow colleagues (ex-colleagues). Anyway, I'm wasting my time. Good luck to you in your future endeavors. Hope you find happiness that allows you to go through life without the necessity of putting others down.

To be honest with you, you make great points and I see where you're coming from. I realize that my posts may sound demeaning or bully-like, etc., but my tone is completely different than it may appear when reading my posts. If it's really looking like I'm trying to bash the PROFESSION, I apologize. However, please realize that I'm only 'blasting' the fact that application-expectations are decreasing tremendously and that demand is decreasing as a result. Perhaps you are right... Maybe I'll decide to complete this degree and find the job that I initially wanted, maybe not. Regardless, it's still not the end of the world. I could always go back and earn another degree while maybe, just maybe finding a part-time job while doing so and countering debt simultaneously (worst-case scenario). But my posts were initially to seek advice, which I did not receive a substantial amount of, but my posts began to take a turning point in which my frustration for how quickly the profession is changing led to me essentially dissuading an individual from taking on a huge investment without at least understanding the key variables involved with the 'risk'. Thanks for 'wasting your time'. You really showed a great attitude yourself while insulting mine... Loving the hypocrisy there.

 

[Chriskahn]

No offense to you and I don't mean to insult you any way, but based on your post alone, I assume that you have a low GPA. Regarding the rest of your post, I would like to acknowledge the fact that you are shadowing an INDEPENDENT PHARMACIST. This is very rare... Yes, if driven enough, I could become a neurosurgeon... Anyone can if their GPA is high enough and their drive is ridiculously intense. But I like to think that if I'm entering a field which demands 8 years of education (excluding the uncessary diploma-mills who pump out pharmacists in 5, 6 years), then I should be able to be guaranteed a career. Do you ever hear of physicians looking for work? Do you ever hear of surgeons looking for work? Dentists (excluding large metropolitan areas)? NO! There is a reason for this... It's because this profession is ran by money-hungry sell-out pharmacists who trade their self-respect for a dollar in order to feel powerful by controlling new pharmacy-graduates; it is also because this profession is ran by individuals who aren't even that educated. I was at a career-fair recently and a representative of a particular 'pharmacy opportunity' was a lady who didn't even graduate from college. What a joke... Who is she to hire a doctoral-level individual? I'm sure she's a nice lady... Maybe she's brilliant, too... But based on her credentials alone, it's frustrating to see her smug expression while she felt that she had power over us because we're pharmacy students. And they way that she spoke of the profession by saying things like, "Oh, if you work for us, you won't have to count by 5's. We have our pharmacists take time to counsel our patients.", etc. Get out of here with that bull-****... Talking like she owns pharmacists. She knows nothing of what healthcare is all about and I was ashamed for the profession to have her in our presence.

Again, no disrespect to the previous poster. I'm pleased to see that you have proper grammar at least, which indicates that you're potentially a really smart person. Lol. And you sound passionate about the field, but keep in mind that you are working for an independently own pharmacy and as a result, your opinion is (no offense) skewed. I used to feel the same way while shadowing a Primary Care Pharmacist. And I wouldn't believe everything that your multimillionaire pharmacist is telling you either because (no offense), but the field has and will continue to drastically change. Best of luck to you and thanks again for your comment.

My gpa is 3.4 I was just trying to make a point. I know a ton of people with 4.0s who cheated their way through school it proves nothing. Sounds to me like you are trying to find excuses for having terrible grades your first year. You are just another prime example of a student with a nice gpa that cant handle the pharmacy school work load. I would be more sympathetic towards your situation but from reading what you have been saying it just sounds like you are trying to justify your failures by bringing your self up and talking down the profession. Your passive aggressive stabs at people trying to help you in this forum also makes you look like a jerk. So at this point I say you either suck it up and continue, or just drop out and move on with chemical engineering or whatever else. Its as simple as that.

 

[Success Seeker]

If I insulted anyone in any way, I wasn't trying to be personal. If I offended anyone personally, I apologize... But only for that. I stand by everything that I've posted.

My gpa is 3.4 I was just trying to make a point. I know a ton of people with 4.0s who cheated their way through school it proves nothing. Sounds to me like you are trying to find excuses for having terrible grades your first year. You are just another prime example of a student with a nice gpa that cant handle the pharmacy school work load. I would be more sympathetic towards your situation but from reading what you have been saying it just sounds like you are trying to justify your failures by bringing your self up and talking down the profession. Your passive aggressive stabs at people trying to help you in this forum also makes you look like a jerk. So at this point I say you either suck it up and continue, or just drop out and move on with chemical engineering or whatever else. Its as simple as that.

...Making a lot of strong assumptions there, so I'll just tell you that your post is not entirely true. I could definitely handle the curriculum when fully committed. Thanks for your response, though, and I didn't ask for and I definitely do not want your sympathy. Good luck with your future endeavors as well.

 

[Startupkid]

My gpa is 3.4 I was just trying to make a point. I know a ton of people with 4.0s who cheated their way through school it proves nothing. Sounds to me like you are trying to find excuses for having terrible grades your first year. You are just another prime example of a student with a nice gpa that cant handle the pharmacy school work load. I would be more sympathetic towards your situation but from reading what you have been saying it just sounds like you are trying to justify your failures by bringing your self up and talking down the profession. Your passive aggressive stabs at people trying to help you in this forum also makes you look like a jerk. So at this point I say you either suck it up and continue, or just drop out and move on with chemical engineering or whatever else. Its as simple as that.

Thank you

 

[Corpseman]

Please, for everyone's sake, shut up and drop out already. There was no need to create this thread except to bash people's GPAs, which of course should be irrelevant in your choice on whether to drop out or not.

We get it, becoming a clinical pharmacist is hard, no one is going to fault you for giving up before you have even started that rat race. You really need to find an easy-to-get as well as high paying job....then you can be happy.

 

[Success Seeker]

Please, for everyone's sake, shut up and drop out already. There was no need to create this thread except to bash people's GPAs, which of course should be irrelevant in your choice on whether to drop out or not.

We get it, becoming a clinical pharmacist is hard, no one is going to fault you for giving up before you have even started that rat race. You really need to find an easy-to-get as well as high paying job....then you can be happy.

...Traced one of your previous posts to this link: http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/pharmacist/Lies-about-pharmacist-job-market/t264349/p15. Clearly, you tend to agree with my opinion, yet you decide to tell me to "shut up" on the internet... Come on.

Again, I didn't create this thread to bash anyone's GPA. I'm not sure if your last sentence was sarcastic, but I appreciate your concern, regardless of how sincere it really is. Thanks.

 

[dreamshappen]

Success Seeker I will be 100% honest with you. As a upperclassmen and if was in my P1 fall year, I would leave. Please dont put 200,000 in pharmacy. It is not worth it. Its only getting worse and please dont believe professors. Honestly, what do you expect them to tell you? All they can do is encourage the students, its up to you to make up your adult decision and determine weather this investment is worth that. I wonder what those professors are telling their children? Probably the truth.

 

[Success Seeker]

Success Seeker I will be 100% honest with you. As a upperclassmen and if was in my P1 fall year, I would leave. Please dont put 200,000 in pharmacy. It is not worth it. Its only getting worse and please dont believe professors. Honestly, what do you expect them to tell you? All they can do is encourage the students, its up to you to make up your adult decision and determine weather this investment is worth that. I wonder what those professors are telling their children? Probably the truth.

Thanks, I appreciate the comment. But if you don't mind me asking, what are your motives for recommending that I leave? ...Just the market? I actually have a current job-offer for a pharmacy-intern position now, so I think I could technically be set as far as finding a position in the future. Thanks again.

 

[dreamshappen]

I know currently interns who are not getting hired. Ultimately its up to you. If you are comfortable with accruing that much debt for a super saturated profession with decreasing salaries in the future then its your right and judgement. Ultimately its your investment and if you think this the best way to spend your money then good luck to you. Get ready to network, network, network and fight for jobs. And if your still young, this is only the beginning you will deal with mess created by the surplus for a long while. Supply and demand do not get resolved quickly.

My motive for letting you know this is because I was in your shoes, with your worries. People told me to network ect. Thats complete bull because if theres one position and 250 people applied, no matter how you slice it 249 people are going home (pigeonhole) . Honestly, ask yourself what I am learning and what can I do with this degree. If its industry your much better going and of getting a pharmaceutical sciences degree. If its clinical your better off doing medicine,NP, PA ect. Honestly so many things are against pharmacy (technology, automation, public perception, decreased reimbursement ect.) And pharmacy is trying to find an out (clinical specialist, informatics ect).

They also say to you in class "pharmacy most underutilized" is that what you want after 4 years after doctrate degree. Honestly? However, if your so inclined to fight for the profession so you can get more utilized , please stay and do. The best decision is an informed decision. I wish you nothing but luck. And btw this is not just a USA problem its a global problem (UK, Australia) The times have changed. Pharmacists were great and needed before the internet, technology, databases, DI checkers ect. cause we had to put that info in our heads and nobody else wanted to. However, now an MD doesnt NEED us. He/she can do it themselves. What happened to the gas pumpers, assemblies ect.

Decision is yours.

 

[intekmdma]

I've skimmed through the comments and may have an alternative suggestion to you. Seeing as your from a well known school, why don't you convert your Pharm.D to a Ph.D in drug development? I know it's not anywhere near chemical engineering but you seem like someone with ambition. This may work out in your favor. If you speak with your counselor, they may be able to substitute some of your core classes towards your doctorate degree that way you didn't waste your time and all your money.

 

[rederza]

.

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

Redereza, If you don't mind me asking, which pharm school do you attend?

If a student is interested in going the pharm route, do a Masters/PhD - do NOT waste money on pharmacy school. If clinical trials is the interest, then get an MD + fellowship. An MD, like a PharmD, is also 4 years. And to my understanding, the MD doesn't force the ridiculous IPPE curriculum down their students' throats - this, by the way, makes the working pharmacist's life another living hell - dealing with students.

 

[rederza]

Redereza, If you don't mind me asking, which pharm school do you attend? B/c oddly enough, there are also about that number of students in my class, lol...if you're not comfortable revealing your school (understandable), try PMing me!
But yeah, I completely understand your feelings. Our curriculum has some "fluff" courses which convince us that we will be clinicians by teaching us how to use a blood pressure cuff, etc...Pfft, like all 125 of us are going to get jobs at hospitals.
On top of that, they tell us how many opportunities there are for the students, such as pharmaceutical industries. In this economy, a PhD is an absolute must to have a shot at obtaining a job in pharma ... and for those interested in clinical trials, the MD's would certainly be preferred over a PharmD.
On top of the enormous amount of courses that the curriculum forces on the student, we HAVE to network and obtain jobs as a technician and/or intern WHILE taking these courses just to get a jump start on the competition, i.e. Touro 10.0 and University of Phoenix (lol) School of Pharmacy opening soon. Just really unneeded stress - buddies of mine in medical school were SOLELY able to concentrate on studies, as opposed to going through all this unneeded stress.
If a student is interested in going the pharm route, do a Masters/PhD - do NOT waste money on pharmacy school. If clinical trials is the interest, then get an MD + fellowship. An MD, like a PharmD, is also 4 years. And to my understanding, the MD doesn't force the ridiculous IPPE curriculum down their students' throats - this, by the way, makes the working pharmacist's life another living hell - dealing with students.

Everything here is true. Blood pressure cuffs are so obscure not to mention produce inconsistent results to what we do. And who ever heard of a pharmacist manually operating a cuff? This in addition to learning all the various screenings, etc stuff you could do as a high school student. The intern competition is on point.Here we are expected to attend statewide meetings, network, join a million clubs, work, ALL while maintaining grades. Drs and dds do not have to deal with all these bs. And in actuality, CVS and WAGS don't even care how much of a leader you are, they just want some one who will keep their mouth shut and meet quota day after day.

There's really no point wanting to do clinical. With the amt of pharm grads coming out these days, we have to fight to get residency, another 2 years (so why not be a dr? it might only take 1 more year and you double the salary) of ridiculous work hours at half the pay. I've even heard of residency directors who will hire PGY's after PGY's with no intentions of hiring them. And why would they? When people are fighting to work for you, at nearly double the hours, at half the pay, this seems like a very costt and time efficient way to run a business. Downright genius too. And as for phD/pharmD our school goes so far as to cover tuition and pay for the PhD BUT not the pharm D. Just do a PhD at a respectable school. These all seem like twisted convoluted schemes to milk us ever more than ever.

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

Everything here is true. Blood pressure cuffs are so obscure not to mention produce inconsistent results to what we do. And who ever heard of a pharmacist manually operating a cuff? This in addition to learning all the various screenings, etc stuff you could do as a high school student. The intern competition is on point.Here we are expected to attend statewide meetings, network, join a million clubs, work, ALL while maintaining grades. Drs and dds do not have to deal with all these bs. And in actuality, CVS and WAGS don't even care how much of a leader you are, they just want some one who will keep their mouth shut and meet quota day after day.

There's really no point wanting to do clinical. With the amt of pharm grads coming out these days, we have to fight to get residency, another 2 years (so why not be a dr? it might only take 1 more year and you double the salary) of ridiculous work hours at half the pay. I've even heard of residency directors who will hire PGY's after PGY's with no intentions of hiring them. And why would they? When people are fighting to work for you, at nearly double the hours, at half the pay, this seems like a very costt and time efficient way to run a business. Downright genius too. And as for phD/pharmD our school goes so far as to cover tuition and pay for the PhD BUT not the pharm D. Just do a PhD at a respectable school. These all seem like twisted convoluted schemes to milk us ever more than ever.

EXACTLY. I'm a little pissed I didn't do my research before matriculating into school, but whatever. PGY's with PHARMACY have got to be the biggest joke, ever. Who knows, PGY-10 might be coming up REAL soon, LOL! And some of these professors are going to convince many of these poor students that it's ABSOLUTELY the BEST field to go into! Those physicians finishing up their 3rd year of residency in IM are going to be thinking, why the hell is that resident-pharmacist still there?! Poor guy.

So: to those pre-pharmers, think LONG and HARD about joining this field before coming in. If you wanna do retail, I think there's a decent future there for the next two decades - that's just my guess! Yeah, the "machines replacing pharmacists" argument is tempting, but I look at the banks with ATM machines, and still see a good amount of tellers and personal bankers working - so nothing really to worry about, for now. Horrible work conditions, yes, but there's a decent check in the end. And yes, get hired by them as a tech/intern early and you have decent chances of getting a good job with the company after - maybe not at your desired location - but you do have a "reliable" job.

If you want to do something "outside the box," you better make friends, quick.

 

[oldstock]

I know currently interns who are not getting hired. Ultimately its up to you. If you are comfortable with accruing that much debt for a super saturated profession with decreasing salaries in the future then its your right and judgement. Ultimately its your investment and if you think this the best way to spend your money then good luck to you. Get ready to network, network, network and fight for jobs. And if your still young, this is only the beginning you will deal with mess created by the surplus for a long while. Supply and demand do not get resolved quickly.

My motive for letting you know this is because I was in your shoes, with your worries. People told me to network ect. Thats complete bull because if theres one position and 250 people applied, no matter how you slice it 249 people are going home (pigeonhole) . Honestly, ask yourself what I am learning and what can I do with this degree. If its industry your much better going and of getting a pharmaceutical sciences degree. If its clinical your better off doing medicine,NP, PA ect. Honestly so many things are against pharmacy (technology, automation, public perception, decreased reimbursement ect.) And pharmacy is trying to find an out (clinical specialist, informatics ect).

They also say to you in class "pharmacy most underutilized" is that what you want after 4 years after doctrate degree. Honestly? However, if your so inclined to fight for the profession so you can get more utilized , please stay and do. The best decision is an informed decision. I wish you nothing but luck. And btw this is not just a USA problem its a global problem (UK, Australia) The times have changed. Pharmacists were great and needed before the internet, technology, databases, DI checkers ect. cause we had to put that info in our heads and nobody else wanted to. However, now an MD doesnt NEED us. He/she can do it themselves. What happened to the gas pumpers, assemblies ect.

Decision is yours.

very well said !!

 

[TheTao]

The advice to get a MS and/or PhD isVERY ill advised especially coming from people who are NOT Scientists and clearly don't know squat about the field!! You think the market is tight for Pharmacists, it's a DEAD END IMHO for MS and/or PhD holders. At least as a Pharmacist you're pretty certain of a high 5 figure/6 figure salary.

Signed, A Scientist going clinical ASAP!!!

 

[Cardinal10]

Pharmacists will be around for decades to come. And like any profession, those that are good at their jobs will always have a job. People will know it and want you to work with them. You have a decent back-up plan. Only you can make this decision. Sounds like you're lucky to be smart enough to have so many options. Good luck to ya and relax!

 

[deleted390966]

,

 

[oldstock]

Luckily it's only blood pressure cups! lol .. Here at my school, we are quizzed on triage & patient assessment in lab (like in med school). Not only I but my fellow classmates feel weird because as if we were going to be doctors.

Doctors of pharmacy

 

[deleted390966]

.

 

[Humble Sloth]

Thanks, I appreciate the comment. But if you don't mind me asking, what are your motives for recommending that I leave? ...Just the market? I actually have a current job-offer for a pharmacy-intern position now, so I think I could technically be set as far as finding a position in the future. Thanks again.

Yes you are correct. Pharmacy is being over saturated. The unemployment rate for new pharmacists will be around 20% in 2020 according to a few independent sources. Clinical pharmacy never really took off to increase the amount of jobs available. However 80% is still a lot of jobs. These jobs will be around because working retail is pure hell for many people. Stress + insurance problems + customers "patients" complaining + drug seekers ect. Even if the compensation dropped to 50k a year I would still pursue this profession because the economy is still very bad and it's difficult to find high paying occupations.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Even if the compensation dropped to 50k a year I would still pursue this profession because the economy is still very bad and it's difficult to find high paying occupations.

Interesting you say this, since earlier you expressed concern about being able to pay off your student loans. Would $50k/year still be worth it to you if you owe $250k after you graduate?

Accountants, financial analysts, engineers, and computer programmers can earn well over $50k/year with much less student debt and schooling.

 

[Humble Sloth]

Interesting you say this, since earlier you expressed concern about being able to pay off your student loans. Would $50k/year still be worth it to you if you owe $250k after you graduate?

Accountants, financial analysts, engineers, and computer programmers can earn well over $50k/year with much less student debt and schooling.

<spoiler> I have a four year engineering degree and was only able to find work for a year before being laid off and spent the next three years being unemployed. They started me out at 60,000 USD</spoiler>

Computer programming will be outsourced soon. Anyone in India and China can compile source code in notepad++ and then upload it to an internationally accessible sever. Not to mention we are arguably in the middle of dot com bubble 2.0.

You are right though. Maybe 50k would be too low. 60k would be alright though. I would get on Income Based Repayment, pay the minimum balance for 25 years and then the loans go poof. Still have a decent quality of life.

 

[PharmtoCS]

You are right though. Maybe 50k would be too low. 60k would be alright though. I would get on Income Based Repayment, pay the minimum balance for 25 years and then the loans go poof. Still have a decent quality of life.

Your loans that are given are taxed as income. If you have $200k loans forgiven 25 years from now, your taxable income would be $200k plus the amount of money you earn that year. If you earn $125k that year, then your tax rate would be $325k, which you would have to pay roughly a lump sum of about $125k to the IRS and state of New York (assuming that's where you live).