DPM title to MD change = realistic soon?

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The folks here don't seem to be getting what jonwill is saying. The bottom line is be you DPM, DDS, MD, DO or even PA your area of specialty or expertise is what matters the most. You can be a jack of all trades and master of none. A clear example, I went with a friend to visit an MD (OB-GYN) just two weeks ago for my friend's routine exam and she was unfamiliar with myasthenia graivis (MG) a neurological condition that my friend also suffers from. Even with her MD she was unfamiliar with the drug prednisone -- and asked what it is. The point being she is not a neurological specialist. Did I laugh at her , mock her or ridicule her? No. Did I come to SDN to say that MD's and to be more precise OB-GYN's receive subpar training? No. There are MD's and DPM's out there that I know who are unhappy with their specialty of choice, who wished they'd done something else; and I tell you what switching specialties even with the MD isn't as easy as it sounds here on SDN. The higher you go the more humble you become and things like letters begin to assume less significance. How do I know? I've seen this among the docs I've worked with, PhD's, DPM's, MD's, DO's and DDS`.

The guy who may be going to get an MD after a DDS may be wanting to go into oral and maxillofacial surgery or it could be for other personal reasons . The misconception of one medical degree being most prestiguous or most superior is mostly seen here on SDN or among people who have a complex of some sort. In today's real world of medicine it is what you do that counts the most and not necessarily the letters behind your last name. I once had to go to an anatomical exhibit with a few MD's and guess what the ones who didn't specialize in surgery were hesitant to take the lead in explaining the systemic and regional anatomy to the students on the tour. True they knew many of the pathologies but tell you what they clearly acknowledged their limitations . Those who put down other degrees are yet to experience the real world of medicine as jonwill put it. Just as actions speak louder than words, the life changing things you do for your patients or clients will speak greater volumes than the letters following your name. My decision to be a foot, ankle, and leg specialist is well thought out and the DPM represents it well enough. I can't wait to get my DPM.
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"she was unfamiliar with myasthenia graivis (MG) a neurological condition that my friend also suffers from. Even with her MD she was unfamiliar with the drug prednisone"....VERY scary

"The guy who may be going to get an MD after a DDS may be wanting to go into oral and maxillofacial surgery"....Bingo!

You are very mature for a pre-podiatry. Do not let certain experiences during your training ever jade you.
 
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smartman716 said:
The folks here don't seem to be getting what jonwill is saying. The bottom line is be you DPM, DDS, MD, DO or even PA your area of specialty or expertise is what matters the most. You can be a jack of all trades and master of none. A clear example, I went with a friend to visit an MD (OB-GYN) just two weeks ago for my friend's routine exam and she was unfamiliar with myasthenia graivis (MG) a neurological condition that my friend also suffers from. Even with her MD she was unfamiliar with the drug prednisone -- and asked what it is. The point being she is not a neurological specialist. Did I laugh at her , mock her or ridicule her? No. Did I come to SDN to say that MD's and to be more precise OB-GYN's receive subpar training? No. There are MD's and DPM's out there that I know who are unhappy with their specialty of choice, who wished they'd done something else; and I tell you what switching specialties even with the MD isn't as easy as it sounds here on SDN. The higher you go the more humble you become and things like letters begin to assume less significance. How do I know? I've seen this among the docs I've worked with, PhD's, DPM's, MD's, DO's and DDS`.

The guy who may be going to get an MD after a DDS may be wanting to go into oral and maxillofacial surgery or it could be for other personal reasons . The misconception of one medical degree being most prestiguous or most superior is mostly seen here on SDN or among people who have a complex of some sort. In today's real world of medicine it is what you do that counts the most and not necessarily the letters behind your last name. I once had to go to an anatomical exhibit with a few MD's and guess what the ones who didn't specialize in surgery were hesitant to take the lead in explaining the systemic and regional anatomy to the students on the tour. True they knew many of the pathologies but tell you what they clearly acknowledged their limitations . Those who put down other degrees are yet to experience the real world of medicine as jonwill put it. Just as actions speak louder than words, the life changing things you do for your patients or clients will speak greater volumes than the letters following your name. My decision to be a foot, ankle, and leg specialist is well thought out and the DPM represents it well enough. I can't wait to get my DPM.
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Only problem is, there's going to be a whole lot bigger paycheck with the MD. Call ANY ortho group employing DPMs, and straightup ask if ANY DPM brings in as much as ANY MD ortho starting out and 10-1 I'll bet the MD commands a bigger salary. It's WHY DPMs are more lucrative to some businesses because they'll work for LESS. (Does this mean they'll bring home - for equal rigors and education, other than the length of residency - as much as the MD? No.) Its econ 101 and a simple balance sheet. Dollars in vs. dollars out. Perhaps a DPM is a financial asset to some groups though a clear liablity in ways too, as he can ONLY do low leg and have zero versatility as an MD ortho of the group taking night calls, covering, etc.

Think of this equation before you leap so admantly to defend DPMs unequivocally.


PS - As a sidenote as to why he may have chosen the MD vs the DDS. Maybe its just as likely he did it, because he will MAKE more. Equally as plausible as your rationale, yes?
 
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MaseratiGT said:
I want in on the Store of Witchcraftery! But only if it's called The Store of Witchcraftery. Makes it sound less demonic and more like...homemakers with a passion.

Then we can lobby for a degree change to DPW (Doctor of Podiatric Witchcraftery), change all of our school's names to varying degrees of Hogwarts, (i.e. Hogverruca, Piggywarts, Sowexcrescence), write loads of books detailing everything we know nothing about, and open a chain of gyms with a KFC on the first floor.

We'll make oodles $_$
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The AWA would never stand for that!
 
GymMan said:
Only problem is, there's going to be a whole lot bigger paycheck with the MD. Call ANY ortho group employing DPMs, and straightup ask if ANY DPM brings in as much as ANY MD ortho starting out and 10-1 I'll bet the MD commands a bigger salary. It's WHY DPMs are more lucrative to some businesses because they'll work for LESS. (Does this mean they'll bring home - for equal rigors and education, other than the length of residency - as much as the MD? No.) Its econ 101 and a simple balance sheet. Dollars in vs. dollars out. Perhaps a DPM is a financial asset to some groups though a clear liablity in ways too, as he can ONLY do low leg and have zero versatility as an MD ortho of the group taking night calls, covering, etc.

Think of this equation before you leap so admantly to defend DPMs unequivocally.


PS - As a sidenote as to why he may have chosen the MD vs the DDS. Maybe its just as likely he did it, because he will MAKE more. Equally as plausible as your rationale, yes?
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I'm beginning to understand your motives in these forums. If you want to make bank so much and want that MD so bad then go get it!
 
smartman716 said:
I'm beginning to understand your motives in these forums. If you want to make bank so much and want that MD so bad then go get it!
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Ah but its harder and longer. If said DPM can get parity it would be close. I'm trying to motivate powers that be, to get off their butts and ask for more compensation or refuse to sign contracts due to a low salary offer. It's got to be a concerted effort on ALL DPMs to stand their ground, rather than a few scabs working for less and thus justifying (in the eyes of the hiring MDs) a lower salary. Let's face it, who doesn't want to be compensated as much as the next guy if we CLEARLY do the same output of effort, no?
 
Originally Posted by GymMan

I'm trying to motivate powers that be...






:laugh:
 
Medical student here (DO)....who cares guys....I would rather go to a podiatrist than an MD/DO orthropod. You guys are MADE to do this. Its your specialty. I said this in another thread whenever I see a patient with vascular disease of the lower extremities or a patient who needs an BKA for whatever reason I always write orders for podiatry (yes they allow us to right orders...lol). I was scrubbed in on a case where the general surgeon did a BKA. I thought that was bull because that is not his job....its yours
 
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USArmyDoc said:
Medical student here (DO)....who cares guys....I would rather go to a podiatrist than an MD/DO orthropod. You guys are MADE to do this. Its your specialty. I said this in another thread whenever I see a patient with vascular disease of the lower extremities or a patient who needs an BKA for whatever reason I always write orders for podiatry (yes they allow us to right orders...lol). I was scrubbed in on a case where the general surgeon did a BKA. I thought that was bull because that is not his job....its yours
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the military may be different but pods in general typically do not do BKAs.

Most states allow amputations to the mid foot (different levels in different states). Most stated will not allow symes or ankle diarticulations.
 
krabmas said:
the military may be different but pods in general typically do not do BKAs.

Most states allow amputations to the mid foot (different levels in different states). Most stated will not allow symes or ankle diarticulations.
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hey whats the reasoning behind the limitation when it comes to amputations? states like arizont dont allow even toe ampuations yet they have ankle included in the scope? I used to think states with limited scope have restricted amputation but i found out the amputation clause is irrespective of the scope of practice. even states like florida dont allow full ampuation?

is there any deep reasoning behind this?
 
cool_vkb said:
hey whats the reasoning behind the limitation when it comes to amputations? states like arizont dont allow even toe ampuations yet they have ankle included in the scope? I used to think states with limited scope have restricted amputation but i found out the amputation clause is irrespective of the scope of practice. even states like florida dont allow full ampuation?

is there any deep reasoning behind this?
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Money is a pretty deep reason for the limitation in scope of practice. States with a strong ortho and/or vascular lobby want the easy foot and ankle cases as they relate to their modality. If nationalized health care is pushed through, and reimbursments plummet as they're predicted to podiatry will likely not come out on top.
 
smartman716 said:
A clear example, I went with a friend to visit an MD (OB-GYN) just two weeks ago for my friend's routine exam and she was unfamiliar with myasthenia graivis (MG) a neurological condition that my friend also suffers from. Even with her MD she was unfamiliar with the drug prednisone -- and asked what it is. The point being she is not a neurological specialist. Did I laugh at her , mock her or ridicule her? No.
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are you kidding?

...neuro specialist to be familiar with MG or prednisone.... ok :wtf:
 
devilpup said:
are you kidding?

...neuro specialist to be familiar with MG or prednisone.... ok :wtf:
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This wasn't a quid pro quo attempt at harassment, I was making a valid point. The physician in question was unfamiliar with the condition and the drug prednisone. FYI, at the Mayo clinic and others MG is handled (though not always solely) by a neurologist. My friend is currently being treated by a neurologist, and is on prednisone, cellcept, and other medications.
True some CNA's and assistants know about this, but let's not belittle these people by our derogatory utterances.



http://www.mayoclinic.org/myasthenia-gravis/treatment.html

At Mayo Clinic, a neurologist with special expertise in myasthenia gravis coordinates the multidisciplinary team. This specialist collaborates with expert colleagues in the EMG and neuromuscular laboratories to diagnose the condition. If treatment is necessary, the coordinating neurologist provides counseling, education and follow-up care either directly or in partnership with the referring physician. If surgical treatment is an option, a thoracic surgeon with special expertise in treating myasthenia gravis is included in the team of specialists.
Several treatments are available for myasthenia gravis, depending on how the disease affects the patient.
 
I find it very hard to believe that any doctor is unfamiliar with the medication Prednisone or even Myasthenia Gravis. That is something learned in medical school pharamacology. MG is a favorite of USMLE exams I/II/III. Those exams are all taken during medical school and/or intern year (USMLE III). Are you sure that it wasn't a midwife or a NP who works in an OB group? ---------------- Listening to: Marcos Valle - Valeu (4Hero Remix) via FoxyTunes
 
In order to maintain my anonymity, I will be humble about my education and background. I do know who is who and instead of labeling other members of the healthcare team, let us embrace our limitations when applicable and be willing to work upon them.

jabreal00 said:
I find it very hard to believe that any doctor is unfamiliar with the medication Prednisone or even Myasthenia Gravis. That is something learned in medical school pharamacology. MG is a favorite of USMLE exams I/II/III. Those exams are all taken during medical school and/or intern year (USMLE III). Are you sure that it wasn't a midwife or a NP who works in an OB group? ---------------- Listening to: Marcos Valle - Valeu (4Hero Remix) via FoxyTunes
Click to expand...
 
smartman716 said:
This wasn't a quid pro quo attempt at harassment, I was making a valid point. The physician in question was unfamiliar with the condition and the drug prednisone. FYI, at the Mayo clinic and others MG is handled (though not always solely) by a neurologist. My friend is currently being treated by a neurologist, and is on prednisone, cellcept, and other medications.
True some CNA's and assistants know about this, but let's not belittle these people by our derogatory utterances.



http://www.mayoclinic.org/myasthenia-gravis/treatment.html

At Mayo Clinic, a neurologist with special expertise in myasthenia gravis coordinates the multidisciplinary team. This specialist collaborates with expert colleagues in the EMG and neuromuscular laboratories to diagnose the condition. If treatment is necessary, the coordinating neurologist provides counseling, education and follow-up care either directly or in partnership with the referring physician. If surgical treatment is an option, a thoracic surgeon with special expertise in treating myasthenia gravis is included in the team of specialists.
Several treatments are available for myasthenia gravis, depending on how the disease affects the patient.
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Naah dood no one is insulting the doc here. dont know about others but iam just suprised.


there are terms like Predinisone or methotrexate or Hodgkins Lymphoma and many more are very hard to forget after during med/pod school or after the school. When you will start your Pharmacology in 2nd year and come across Cancer drugs. you will be like "is there something that methotrexate cant do..." or "is there any antineoplastic drug which doesnt have a hodgkins lymphoma as SE". iam giving vague and very very stupid examples. there are ofcourse many exceptions but you will find these terms very very common in pharmacology and then subsequently in your medicine courses. Thats why its very hard and surpising that a doc didnt knew about predinisone or MG.
 
cool_vkb said:
Naah dood no one is insulting the doc here. dont know about others but iam just suprised.


there are terms like Predinisone or methotrexate or Hodgkins Lymphoma and many more are very hard to forget after during med/pod school or after the school. When you will start your Pharmacology in 2nd year and come across Cancer drugs. you will be like "is there something that methotrexate cant do..." or "is there any antineoplastic drug which doesnt have a hodgkins lymphoma as SE". iam giving vague and very very stupid examples. there are ofcourse many exceptions but you will find these terms very very common in pharmacology and then subsequently in your medicine courses. Thats why its very hard and surpising that a doc didnt knew about predinisone or MG.
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Well it is what it is and my story is true. It came as a surprise to me too.
 
capo said:
Cool_vkb, he did a good job looking it up didn't he? Ha, that's why there's google. :rolleyes:
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lol the post was so detailed. i had to run to my epocrates to double check my facts. lol.

PS: all prepods when you come to second yr. get a smartphone (blackberry/iphone/palm) and download eprocates. its an awesome tool and save tons of time.
 
cool_vkb said:
lol the post was so detailed. i had to run to my epocrates to double check my facts. lol.

PS: all prepods when you come to second yr. get a smartphone (blackberry/iphone/palm) and download eprocates. its an awesome tool and save tons of time.
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Lol thanks for the info. I actually have a blackberry bold, still trying to get the hang of it so don't be surprised if I type funny. I am about to look at epocrates, in what ways does it come handy?'
 
smartman716 said:
Lol thanks for the info. I actually have a blackberry bold, still trying to get the hang of it so don't be surprised if I type funny. I am about to look at epocrates, in what ways does it come handy?'
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I dont know what school you are going to. but scholl is very tech savvy. imagine this situation:

You are presenting a case to your attending. the patient is 89 yrs old type 2 DM and HTN and currently taking Lyrica , Amaryl, Lasix and atenolol , verampil and sildenafil:love:

The physician looks at you and ask "what is he taking Lyrica for?". You have to know the names of the drugs and what they do before you go infront of the physician. now imagine wasting 3-5 mins searching in the physican desk reference book and the weight of carrying around. You can just open epocrates and type the name and baaam you have the mechanism of action, common reasons why it is prescribed, dose, Sideffecs, contraindications, etc.
it saves a lot of time. especially in 2nd year you are not well worsed with many drug names.

another scenario could be (which is really where epocrates gives you the edge). you are in conference room discussing a case history. there 5-6 students and physician throws out a question. while others are still remembering you can go on epocrates and give the answer in a second :cool: (this happens with me a lot.) epocrates even gives you alternative medications, costs, doses, drug interactions,etc etc. its an awesome tool.
 
cool_vkb said:
I dont know what school you are going to. but scholl is very tech savvy. imagine this situation:

You are presenting a case to your attending. the patient is 89 yrs old type 2 DM and HTN and currently taking Lyrica , Amaryl, Lasix and atenolol , verampil and sildenafil:love:

The physician looks at you and ask "what is he taking Lyrica for?". You have to know the names of the drugs and what they do before you go infront of the physician. now imagine wasting 3-5 mins searching in the physican desk reference book and the weight of carrying around. You can just open epocrates and type the name and baaam you have the mechanism of action, common reasons why it is prescribed, dose, Sideffecs, contraindications, etc.
it saves a lot of time. especially in 2nd year you are not well worsed with many drug names.

another scenario could be (which is really where epocrates gives you the edge). you are in conference room discussing a case history. there 5-6 students and physician throws out a question. while others are still remembering you can go on epocrates and give the answer in a second :cool: (this happens with me a lot.) epocrates even gives you alternative medications, costs, doses, drug interactions,etc etc. its an awesome tool.
Click to expand...

After having looked at the software, I must say that it is a great reference tool. It is amazing what technology can do. I tried downloading the free software but it seems like the link wasn't available. There is another link where you have to pay to download.

OASN (on a side note, for those that aren't too technologically or acronym savvy), I am going to Harvard Pod School ;).
 
cool_vkb said:
hey whats the reasoning behind the limitation when it comes to amputations? states like arizont dont allow even toe ampuations yet they have ankle included in the scope? I used to think states with limited scope have restricted amputation but i found out the amputation clause is irrespective of the scope of practice. even states like florida dont allow full ampuation?

is there any deep reasoning behind this?
Click to expand...

This is not always decided by money. Ankle fx scope laws are deeply seeded in money.

Amputation laws are funny.

Most scope laws were written a long time ago, unless revised recently like Conn. These laws were written by state podiatry associations with bargining with medical societies for passage into law.

It is all political and has little to do with actual education.

If you look at other medical specialties scopes they are given privilages to the max of there scope/training. It is assumed that they are trained to do what they are doing and if not they will not do it.

Pods on the other hand are privaliged to the minimum of their training and have to fight for anything extra. We should be licensed like any other specialty and have the common sense to not do procedures that are beyond our ability. Afte all it is not about prooving to someone that we can do these "big" cases, it is about doing what it right for the patient.
 
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