DOs with 3.4s/30+ MCATs?

[HalfListic]

Are you good at dancing? We should dance the traditional osteopathic dance.....

you know... where we square dance while doing cranial...

Only if you'll...serenade...me.

---

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Only if you'll...serenade...me.

Hawt-Dog!

 

[retro]

Darkskies, you must be smoking something. For the record, my stat was 3.86 / 32, and I'll be attending a DO school this coming fall as well. I didn't get into any MD schools mainly because I had a 6 verbal (came to the states from an Asian country 5 yrs ago blah...)

Am I upset because I'm going to a DO school? Not at all. In fact, I'm grateful that couple of schools were willing to give me a chance to become a physician.

The only way you will overcome this issue is to change your perspectives, and trust me, this does not happen all of a sudden. Personally, I've been through $hit loads of life crisis such as getting expelled from middle school, getting involved in gang fights (almost died in it), losing a friend over it, etc back when I was in Asia. It cost me a tremendous amount of emotional distress and trauma to recover and get back to where I am. My point is...you need some sort of a turning point that'll teach you to appreciate little things we take for granted. For instance, I'm extremely grateful that I was given a chance to study in the states, to eat/breath, and to merely live in this world. You gotta look at the grand scheme of things and see how blessed you are right now.

Second of all, there are numerous bright minds out there in DO schools who performed better than you stat wise. I can attest to this after talking to the candidates during interviews...so don't let arrogance dominate your mind, and keep on moving with modesty.

I don't even know why I'm wasting my time writing this, but I sincerely hope that you could see yourself in a position to embrace an opportunity that not everyone, if not most will ever have in their lives.

 

[Darkskies]

TriagePreMed, I answered why I thought you were delusional in the rest of the paragraph. psychhgirl continues to attack a strawman. Nowhere in my posts have I directly stated any of the things she accuses me of stating.

The one poster who pretty much agreed with all of my points about the DO profession but then remarked that despite all this some students attending DO institutions WANTED to be DOs(despite the fact that 95%+ DOs do not use OMM in practice) did not leave any evidence for his claim. Why would students want to be DOs if in essence they are exactly the same as MDs in practice? You state that the DO curriculum is different from an MDs yet they both learn the same things except DOs also learn OMM. In addition DOs perform well on the USMLE despite not attending an MD institution which also tells me that the curriculum is almost identical.

Here's an experiment that would convince me that students actually WANTED to be DOs. If most of the DO students who claim to only want to be DOs have average stats that mirror/surpass the average student matriculating at an MD institution then I would believe them. If, on the other hand they don't then it's not like they had a chance to be an MD anyway so it's hard to believe. I didn't have a chance at MD this cycle either.

For the record, my AACOMAS GPA is above a 3.6. I am above average for DO both GPA and MCAT wise. If I remember correctly it's more like a 3.63 since my retakes for As replaced a couple of my initial bad grades in a few prereqs.

Retro, I completely agree with you but you can't deny that MDs have better overall opportunities and if I do the SMP(really unlikely now) I might have had better opportunities for my future(but I should be grateful for what I have nonetheless). In your case, all you would have to do is get some instruction for the verbal section before retaking the MCAT.

 

[TriagePreMed]

TriagePreMed, I answered why I thought you were delusional in the rest of the paragraph.

No, you didn't. What you did was call me delusional and then you ascribed upon me what YOU believe that I believe. That is the very definition of a straw man.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well that's the thing, no one is going to deny that MD's likely have better oppertunities in many regards, especially for top tier ACGME residencies. But DO will get you where you want, and in the end that's what really matters.
Yes, there are a few people that are a bit nuts about this and going to basically hate you for openly stating that you would have preferred to be a MD. But that can't be helped, take what you can and go with it.

Towards Triage, you know my opinion. I'm very realistic about things like this and you likewise criticize me for tainting your profession. But you need to stop this, not everyone is going to share your same enthusiasm for being a DO and it's supposed distinctions. You need to be comfortable accepting the fact that many people are going to go to DO schools to become doctors, not martyrs for the legacy of A.T Still.

 

[Ost3oclast]

^^ After reading "The D.O's" it seems like Still would HATE all modern DO's for the simple fact that they prescribe medication anyway.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

^^ After reading "The D.O's" it seems like Still would HATE all modern DO's for the simple fact that they prescribe medication anyway.

I can honestly say that who cares what he thinks?

 

[Ost3oclast]

I can honestly say that who cares what he thinks?

I agree. Its just interesting that there are those who so intensely defend AT Still when, in all reality, he would want very little to do with them if he were still alive to see where the DO profession is now.

 

[Conflagration]

I don't get you, OP. You assure us that your goal is to be a physician, yet you're still whining about not getting into MD school.

DO is not that different than MD, as many on this board have been telling you. They're both pathways, the means to the end, becoming a physician.

Would it make a lick of difference if DO schools averaged higher stats? I mean, really, if they had higher stats, then you might have been without an acceptance this cycle. Would that make you feel better?

Why does it pain you so much to take your acceptance? You aren't getting an MD one this cycle, they both have the same practicing rights, take it and run. Or, if it's for the letters "MD" behind your name, do the SMP. To hold a superiority complex over a whole group of people because of two or three numbers is really stupid and I hope that you look back at this and realize how vain you sound.

 

[HalfListic]

No, you didn't. What you did was call me delusional and then you ascribed upon me what YOU believe that I believe. That is the very definition of a straw man.

That's actually what happened. Just in fairness to reality...

 

[HalfListic]

I agree. Its just interesting that there are those who so intensely defend AT Still when, in all reality, he would want very little to do with them if he were still alive to see where the DO profession is now.

I agree with this. But, I haven't seen anyone defend Still himself? Maybe I missed it, which is a good possibility.

I think there's a disconnect between people critiquing old school osteopaths, and those who see the future of DOs(which is very similar to MDs).

It's all just the future of medicine really.

It's funny because there are two arguments that keep coming up: this one, which is basically criticizing DO for being different. And then the other argument is DOs are no different. Same people on both sides...

 

[circulus vitios]

DO best case scenario: You become a doctor.
DO worst case scenario: You become a doctor.

Post-bac best case scenario: You become a doctor.
Post-bac best case scenario: You waste $10,000+ on a post-bac & another round of applications.

 

[Hemorrage]

this thread is evidence enough that this whole D.O degree needs to be abolished. I'm sorry but if osteopathic medical schools think the addition of ONE single course is reason to grant whole different degrees then they are stupid. Yes we all know M.D = D.O, great. So then instead of having this stupid and useless distinction, why not just grant M.D's and give osteopathic medical students their "osteopathic" designation by simply writing Doctor of Medicine - X School of Osteopathic Medicine. Seriously this simple change would end all of these stupid flame wars between the two groups.

Most, and i mean "most" D.O students simply attended D.O school because they didn't get into M.D- does leave them at fault? Of course not- they simply took what they can get. The whole medical school admissions process alone is a pain in the neck and even with the right numbers/EC's etc. you will still get denied because there simply aren't enough seats. If D.O schools simply converted to granting M.D's instead what would change? They can still preach the A.T philosophy which 95% of the class will just forget but at the end the students get a degree thats more widely recognized and allows an osteopathic graduate to feel proud of their choice to attend an osteopathic institution without having to worry about being looked "down" upon by M.D's

 

[HalfListic]

this thread is evidence enough that this whole D.O degree needs to be abolished. I'm sorry but if osteopathic medical schools think the addition of ONE single course is reason to grant whole different degrees then they are stupid. Yes we all know M.D = D.O, great. So then instead of having this stupid and useless distinction, why not just grant M.D's and give osteopathic medical students their "osteopathic" designation by simply writing Doctor of Medicine - X School of Osteopathic Medicine. Seriously this simple change would end all of these stupid flame wars between the two groups.

Most, and i mean "most" D.O students simply attended D.O school because they didn't get into M.D- does leave them at fault? Of course not- they simply took what they can get. The whole medical school admissions process alone is a pain in the neck and even with the right numbers/EC's etc. you will still get denied because there simply aren't enough seats. If D.O schools simply converted to granting M.D's instead what would change? They can still preach the A.T philosophy which 95% of the class will just forget but at the end the students get a degree thats more widely recognized and allows an osteopathic graduate to feel proud of their choice to attend an osteopathic institution without having to worry about being looked "down" upon by M.D's

This, as well as a dual degree or certification, has been argued.

I've said it before, but I'd love to see an MD, DO option available

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This, as well as a dual degree or certification, has been argued.

I've said it before, but I'd love to see an MD, DO option available

As discussed before, unless we can actively displace power from the AOA in a series of attempts by working with SOMA, practicing DO's, and osteopathic medical school this is a notion that will be dead for the a minimal of 20 years.

 

[Ost3oclast]

As discussed before, unless we can actively displace power from the AOA in a series of attempts by working with SOMA, practicing DO's, and osteopathic medical school this is a notion that will be dead for the a minimal of 20 years.

Taking the AOA down will be extraordinarily difficult.

MD,DO would be cool but unlikely to happen anytime soon. Especially lately with the AMA trying to ban DO's from going through ACGME residency. I doubt the AMA will allow DO's to use ANY form of identification that can be tied to allopaths.

 

[HalfListic]

Again, this is something that would take time, and support.

It's quite a bit more likely than dissolving the DO degree all together.

But, I'm returning to my fondue and bid you all a good weekend.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Taking the AOA down will be extraordinarily difficult.

MD,DO would be cool but unlikely to happen anytime soon. Especially lately with the AMA trying to ban DO's from going through ACGME residency. I doubt the AMA will allow DO's to use ANY form of identification that can be tied to allopaths.

No they aren't trying to ban DO's from ACGME residency. Are you insane? All they've said is they want ACGME residencies for ACGME fellowships. It's stuff like this how we get so many half-truths floating around.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

No they aren't trying to ban DO's from ACGME residency. Are you insane? All they've said is they want ACGME residencies for ACGME fellowships. It's stuff like this how we get so many half-truths floating around.

They particularly also want DO's to not do Osteopathic internships and instead do ACGME PGY-1s.

 

[Ost3oclast]

No they aren't trying to ban DO's from ACGME residency. Are you insane? All they've said is they want ACGME residencies for ACGME fellowships. It's stuff like this how we get so many half-truths floating around.

Sorry for the mistake hahaha i meant fellowship.

 

[MedPR]

To both MedPR and Darkskies and whoever else shares these sentiments:
I'm going to try to be as clear as possible and hopefully it will help settle your personal vendetta against me

Truthfully, I read nothing beyond what I've quoted. I don't have a personal vendetta against you. You and I have differing opinions. You express yours and I express mine. I don't feel like you are attacking me, and I don't think you should feel like I'm attacking. I'm not attacking you. My opinion (in relation to you) is that MD is the easier path. I think most people share this opinion. I also believe that I want to take the easier path if at all possible. Again, I think most people would agree. If you choose to take the more difficult path, that's your prerogative. I disagree. It's really that simple. I don't mean to be disrespectful and I'm certainly not judging you in a negative way. I apologize if it appears otherwise, but I assure you it's as simple and clear as I have made it in this post.

True, but who do the ones writing the laws listen to? The people's prevailing opinion.

If you perpetuate the opinion that DO students are "MD applicant failures and nothing more", which you have implied somewhat in this thread, just be prepared to reap what you sow should you land at an osteopathic institution. Because I guarantee you that you'll go through school KNOWING that you are just as qualified to learn to practice medicine as anyone else; but the opinions you've championed here will be used by others against you.

I agree. People making the laws have to listen to the majority and/or those with the most money/power. If they don't, they won't be reelected and won't have anymore lawmaking ability. It's the way the world works and like everything else, it is what it is.

I made a post on the previous page (or maybe on the top of this page) regarding my opinion and I don't think anyone who accepts facts for facts would or should be offended. I haven't meant to sound like I believe all DO students are "MD applicant failures and nothing more." I believe that many DO applicants and matriculants had MD dreams. Goro, a DO ADCOM, has stated that DO schools know they are often a backup to MD. If a DO ADCOM accepts it and (presumably) is ok with it, why can't pre-meds? I don't find it offensive or negative. It is what it is. I'm trying not to continue addressing this, but if people continue to misquote me or misunderstand what I'm trying to say (despite my now multiple attempts at being clear and respectful about it) I will certainly continue writing replies.

Once again. I do not believe that DO matriculants are failed MD applicants. I believe that many students apply to DO as a backup. I also believe that many of those students will happily attend a DO school presuming their goal is to become a physician rather than to become an MD. I want to be a physician. If MD wasn't the easier path, I wouldn't have a preference.

I don't think MedPR is trying to be an ass though. I think he's just taking realism and making it a bit too rough.

This.

Maybe so...

I kinda think he's just trying to repeat things he's heard from others that he looks up to.


Normally, I haven't seen him be this tactless

I don't look up to anyone on this forum.

Edit: I think a lot of people have great stories. But I don't feel that I can look up to someone I do not know.

 

[TriagePreMed]

They particularly also want DO's to not do Osteopathic internships and instead do ACGME PGY-1s.

Now that would suck. I want to go into Neurology and wanted to do an AOA internship, but oh well, not the end of the world. Do you know when these changes will take effect or if they have voted on it?

 

[HalfListic]

Now that would suck. I want to go into Neurology and wanted to do an AOA internship, but oh well, not the end of the world. Do you know when these changes will take effect or if they have voted on it?

Good question...I'll have to look into this as well. It was brought up in a different thread some time ago, but no one knew too many specifics

 

[TriagePreMed]

I do not believe that DO matriculants are failed MD applicants. I believe that many students apply to DO as a backup. I also believe that many of those students will happily attend a DO school presuming their goal is to become a physician rather than to become an MD. I want to be a physician. If MD wasn't the easier path, I wouldn't have a preference.

Then what are they if not failed MD applicants? You're trying to have your cake and eat it. It doesn't work like that. Let me give my thoughts clearly:

I think nearly everyone wants to go to the best school possible. This means that if you're going to UC San Diego you're going to a "backup MD" because you didn't get into Harvard. If you don't get into an MD school and go to a DO program, you are doing the exact same thing. You're going to a "backup" too, except because it has the letters "DO" then people want to marginalize it. So in the end, your coveted non-HMS MD is as much "backup" as a DO is.

Now, do some people exist that want to go into MD only because they believe there's something wrong with DO schools? Yes. Are they right? To them, yes. No problem. It's like me saying I wouldn't want to go to a school in a really dangerous and racist area. That's my problem. Are there people that genuinely do NOT want to go to an MD school and want a DO school? Yes. Are they right? To them, yes. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe to YOU OMM and the Osteopathic history and philosophy is bull****. Congrats to you, but that doesn't mean everyone else's opinion is the same.

This is it. There's nothing more to say. Go to the school you want/can get into. You don't know the heart-of-hearts of other people, so don't pretend to talk for them or insult them by saying they are inferior. And if they are, so what? Not your problem. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. In my experience, DO's tend to be open about accepting they just didn't get into an MD school and have pretty strong self-esteem because they don't let that dictate who they are as people. The truly weak people would rather abandon medicine than put up with having different initials.

 

[MedPR]

Then what are they if not failed MD applicants? You're trying to have your cake and eat it. It doesn't work like that. Let me give my thoughts clearly:

Essentially you're saying that someone who doesn't achieve their first choice is a failure. I don't think that's true. Not all DO matriculants applied to MD schools. In light of that, it's completely untrue to call DO matriculants "failed MD applicants" as you are.

I think nearly everyone wants to go to the best school possible. This means that if you're going to UC San Diego you're going to a "backup MD" because you didn't get into Harvard. If you don't get into an MD school and go to a DO program, you are doing the exact same thing. You're going to a "backup" too, except because it has the letters "DO" then people want to marginalize it. So in the end, your coveted non-HMS MD is as much "backup" as a DO is.

Not everyone wants HMS or JHU. Lots of people prefer state school because it's cheaper, but that's besides the point. There's nothing wrong with applying to backups. Everyone does it. I don't have a problem with people applying to or attending a back up. You are the only one who continues to talk about it negatively. I don't know how big their classes are, but lets assume 100 students per class at HMS and JHU. That's 200 students. There were something like 45k applicants last year. By your logic, 99.56% of matriculants are attending a backup.

Now, do some people exist that want to go into MD only because they believe there's something wrong with DO schools? Yes. Are they right? To them, yes. No problem. It's like me saying I wouldn't want to go to a school in a really dangerous and racist area. That's my problem. Are there people that genuinely do NOT want to go to an MD school and want a DO school? Yes. Are they right? To them, yes. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe to YOU OMM and the Osteopathic history and philosophy is bull****. Congrats to you, but that doesn't mean everyone else's opinion is the same.

I already said there was nothing wrong with someone choosing DO over MD. Perhaps your tunnel vision focus on certain topics didn't allow you to see it.

To both MedPR and Darkskies and whoever else shares these sentiments:
I'm going to try to be as clear as possible and hopefully it will help settle your personal vendetta against me

Truthfully, I read nothing beyond what I've quoted. I don't have a personal vendetta against you. You and I have differing opinions. You express yours and I express mine. I don't feel like you are attacking me, and I don't think you should feel like I'm attacking. I'm not attacking you. My opinion (in relation to you) is that MD is the easier path. I think most people share this opinion. I also believe that I want to take the easier path if at all possible. Again, I think most people would agree. If you choose to take the more difficult path, that's your prerogative. I disagree. It's really that simple. I don't mean to be disrespectful and I'm certainly not judging you in a negative way. I apologize if it appears otherwise, but I assure you it's as simple and clear as I have made it in this post.

You're trying to act all high and mighty, but you keep harping on points I haven't made and/or have corrected. I didn't say Osteo history or OMM is bs. I said MD is the easier route and hence is my preference. You continue to quote me, but you never actually respond to anything in my post. Do I believe OMM works? Sure, just as much as chiropractic adjustments or acupuncture. Do I care about the history of Osteopathic medicine? No, but I don't care about the history of Allopathic medicine either. I'm not interested in history at all, actually.

This is it. There's nothing more to say. Go to the school you want/can get into. You don't know the heart-of-hearts of other people, so don't pretend to talk for them or insult them by saying they are inferior. And if they are, so what? Not your problem. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. In my experience, DO's tend to be open about accepting they just didn't get into an MD school and have pretty strong self-esteem because they don't let that dictate who they are as people. The truly weak people would rather abandon medicine than put up with having different initials.

I've said from the get go that people are sensitive about "MD > DO" because they have self esteem issues. I've said that, if you truly believe in DO and if you truly prefer DO to MD, then you won't be offended by what people say about it. That is my belief about most things. Lots of people say physicians are money hungry and will order tests just to rip you off and get more cash. Is that offensive to me? Nope. I'll be happy being a physician. I don't care if I'm a DO or MD. I care that I have access to the opportunity (residency/fellowship) that I ultimately want. MD is the safest way to ensure that, but it's also very likely that DO won't prevent me from getting what I want provided I don't want some hypercompetitive specialty. I've never said DO is outright inferior to MD. I said the average DO matriculant has inferior stats to the average MD matriculant and that in terms of quantity and variety of location AOA is inferior to ACGME. Does that make DO students or practicing DOs inferior to their MD counterparts? Of course not. Please be more accurate in what you quote. If I'm not clear, simply ask me to be clear instead of making outlandish assumptions as you have done here.

Lastly, why is someone weak just because they choose a different profession if they can't be an MD? They simply don't want to be a physician all that bad. That doesn't mean they are weak...
Edit: Changed to make it more direct.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Essentially you're saying that someone who doesn't achieve their first choice is a failure. I don't think that's true. Not all DO matriculants applied to MD schools. In light of that, it's completely untrue to call DO matriculants "failed MD applicants" as you are.

The point is YOU are calling all DO matriculates failed MD applicants. You're trying to say one thing and then saying the opposite so that people don't call you out. At least when Mitt Romney flip-flops he holds one position at a time; you try to hold both.

Not everyone wants HMS or JHU. Lots of people prefer state school because it's cheaper, but that's besides the point. There's nothing wrong with applying to backups. Everyone does it. I don't have a problem with people applying to or attending a back up. You are the only one who continues to talk about it negatively. I don't know how big their classes are, but lets assume 100 students per class at HMS and JHU. That's 200 students. There were something like 45k applicants last year. By your logic, 99.56% of matriculants are attending a backup.

No **** not everyone wants to attend HMS, a no **** everyone does it. That's the entire point of what I'm saying. People don't fit into categories easily. And no, it's not "by my logic." It's about extending YOUR logic to its logical conclusions.

Here's my point one more time because you have difficulty understanding: calling schools "backup" is pretty stupid. Only a small minority of people get into their first choice school, be it MD or DO and nearly everyone applies to more schools than their first choice.

I've said from the get go that people are sensitive about "MD > DO" because they have self esteem issues. I've said that, if you truly believe in DO and if you truly prefer DO to MD, then you won't be offended by what people say about it.

God, you're such a blockhead. You act like what you're saying is incredibly insightful and nobody else can figure out that some things come easier as an MD. The point people are making to you is that education-wise getting a DO and an MD is the same thing. That in the end in practice they are both the exact same things. I have yet to see one person argue that a DO has an equal chance in everything, yet you keep attacking this imaginary person that's telling you that being a DO doesn't make it more difficult to get into an ACGME residency (or something of that nature).

Christ, how you got an 11 in verbal baffles me.

 

[MedPR]

The point is YOU are calling all DO matriculates failed MD applicants. You're trying to say one thing and then saying the opposite so that people don't call you out. At least when Mitt Romney flip-flops he holds one position at a time; you try to hold both.

You're (wrongly) implying that from what I've stated. If I, for example, apply to MD and DO and only get into DO then I am a failed MD applicant. Obviously. I've already said that not every DO matriculant applied to MD and DO. In that case, how can that individual be a failed MD applicant if they didn't even try? They can't. What part of that don't you understand?

No **** not everyone wants to attend HMS, a no **** everyone does it. That's the entire point of what I'm saying. People don't fit into categories easily. And no, it's not "by my logic." It's about extending YOUR logic to its logical conclusions.

How is that extending my logic? My logic is simply that people apply to DO as a back up. You're putting a negative spin on "backup," not me.

Here's my point one more time because you have difficulty understanding: calling schools "backup" is pretty stupid. Only a small minority of people get into their first choice school, be it MD or DO and nearly everyone applies to more schools than their first choice.

Christ, how you got an 11 in verbal baffles me.

What would you call it then, if not "backup"? #2-infinity is a backup. I don't think there's anything wrong with attending a backup.. I've never said anything of the sort. I've been saying all along that I would happily go to any of my backups which are made up of both MD and DO schools.

 

[MedPR]

God, you're such a blockhead. You act like what you're saying is incredibly insightful and nobody else can figure out that some things come easier as an MD. The point people are making to you is that education-wise getting a DO and an MD is the same thing. That in the end in practice they are both the exact same things. I have yet to see one person argue that a DO has an equal chance in everything, yet you keep attacking this imaginary person that's telling you that being a DO doesn't make it more difficult to get into an ACGME residency (or something of that nature).

Christ, how you got an 11 in verbal baffles me.

Actually, I brought up that point again because you told me that I was "insulting them by saying they are inferior" when I actually didn't.
I've never said anyone in a DO school is inferior to someone in an MD school.

This is it. There's nothing more to say. Go to the school you want/can get into. You don't know the heart-of-hearts of other people, so don't pretend to talk for them or insult them by saying they are inferior. And if they are, so what? Not your problem. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. In my experience, DO's tend to be open about accepting they just didn't get into an MD school and have pretty strong self-esteem because they don't let that dictate who they are as people. The truly weak people would rather abandon medicine than put up with having different initials.

 

[MedPR]

Edit: That was rude, I guess.

 

[IMDoc607]

TriagePreMed, I answered why I thought you were delusional in the rest of the paragraph. psychhgirl continues to attack a strawman. Nowhere in my posts have I directly stated any of the things she accuses me of stating.

The one poster who pretty much agreed with all of my points about the DO profession but then remarked that despite all this some students attending DO institutions WANTED to be DOs(despite the fact that 95%+ DOs do not use OMM in practice) did not leave any evidence for his claim. Why would students want to be DOs if in essence they are exactly the same as MDs in practice? You state that the DO curriculum is different from an MDs yet they both learn the same things except DOs also learn OMM. In addition DOs perform well on the USMLE despite not attending an MD institution which also tells me that the curriculum is almost identical.

Here's an experiment that would convince me that students actually WANTED to be DOs. If most of the DO students who claim to only want to be DOs have average stats that mirror/surpass the average student matriculating at an MD institution then I would believe them. If, on the other hand they don't then it's not like they had a chance to be an MD anyway so it's hard to believe. I didn't have a chance at MD this cycle either.

For the record, my AACOMAS GPA is above a 3.6. I am above average for DO both GPA and MCAT wise. If I remember correctly it's more like a 3.63 since my retakes for As replaced a couple of my initial bad grades in a few prereqs.

Retro, I completely agree with you but you can't deny that MDs have better overall opportunities and if I do the SMP(really unlikely now) I might have had better opportunities for my future(but I should be grateful for what I have nonetheless). In your case, all you would have to do is get some instruction for the verbal section before retaking the MCAT.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you really are a tool. Stay the hell out of UMDNJ SOM and go to the SMP. You have shown yourself to be a petty immature and downright arrogant nobody. You have not stepped into a medical school as a student yet you have such arrogance. You will be the socially challenged, annoying, and poorly performing medical students because you are so hung up on your stats. I would never want you as a colleague (MD or DO) and would NEVER want you as my doctor. I tried hard to see your side but you have proven yourself to be such a dbag.

 

[IMDoc607]

Edit: That was rude, I guess.

Ditto to you....

 

[GypsyHummus]

I dont know how much help I can be, but I will add my two cents:

I come from a very doctor heavy family, all of my uncles are MDs. A cousin of mine just graduated from undergrad with a 3.7 and a 27 Mcat. He did not get a single interview at an MD school, and his state has alot of med schools. He didnt apply to DO school because he thought it was "beneath him". Now he is spending a year in the americops trying to boost his application. I hope that works out well for him.

my uncle has told me to go to the carribean before going DO. He is a very respected surgeon. As much as I value his advice, I am going to a US med school before ever stepping foot on the islands.

If it were me I would take the DO seat, you never know what the next year holds.

If you want an MD, go get one; be it carribean or SMP.

Going DO: Best case scenario: you become a world renown surgeon who owns a big house
Going DO worst case: you are a general practice doctor who makes six figurez

Going SMP Best case: you become a world renown surgeon who owns a big house but costed you more investment to do so
Worst case: You wasted money (70K) and now you are stuck in a normal american paying job with very little hope of ever being accepted again.

Going carribean best case: you are a general practice doctor who makes six figurez
Worst case: You wasted money (250K) and now you are stuck in a normal paying job with very little hope of ever being accepted again.

Seems like DO seems the less risky to me.

but then again, My area is very DO unfriendly. two people in my school have go to the carribean rather than take thier chances at a DO school here in the states. I wish them the best.

 

[MedPR]

I dont know how much help I can be, but I will add my two cents:

I come from a very doctor heavy family, all of my uncles are MDs. A cousin of mine just graduated from undergrad with a 3.7 and a 27 Mcat. He did not get a single interview at an MD school, and his state has alot of med schools. He didnt apply to DO school because he thought it was "beneath him". Now he is spending a year in the americops trying to boost his application. I hope that works out well for him.

my uncle has told me to go to the carribean before going DO. He is a very respected surgeon. As much as I value his advice, I am going to a US med school before ever stepping foot on the islands.

If it were me I would take the DO seat, you never know what the next year holds.

If you want an MD, go get one; be it carribean or SMP.

Going DO: Best case scenario: you become a world renown surgeon who owns a big house
Going DO worst case: you are a general practice doctor who makes six figurez

Going SMP Best case: you become a world renown surgeon who owns a big house but costed you more investment to do so
Worst case: You wasted money (70K) and now you are stuck in a normal american paying job with very little hope of ever being accepted again.

Going carribean best case: you are a general practice doctor who makes six figurez
Worst case: You wasted money (250K) and now you are stuck in a normal paying job with very little hope of ever being accepted again.

Seems like DO seems the less risky to me.

but then again, My area is very DO unfriendly. two people in my school have go to the carribean rather than take thier chances at a DO school here in the states. I wish them the best.

In before people interested in general practice jump on you for saying surgery > FM/IM.

 

[GypsyHummus]

In before people interested in general practice jump on you for saying surgery > FM/IM.

Oops, ur right, er let me rephrase that:

Best case scenario: You are a physician who makez 700K+
Worst case:....................you are a GP who makes six figurez.

and honestly, everyone knows if IM or FM made the kind of money surgeons made, there would be a lot less empty spots in the match

Such a terrible life, being burdened with a medical school acceptance.

 

[toxicwombat]

Then what are they if not failed MD applicants? You're trying to have your cake and eat it. It doesn't work like that. Let me give my thoughts clearly:

I think nearly everyone wants to go to the best school possible. This means that if you're going to UC San Diego you're going to a "backup MD" because you didn't get into Harvard. If you don't get into an MD school and go to a DO program, you are doing the exact same thing. You're going to a "backup" too, except because it has the letters "DO" then people want to marginalize it. So in the end, your coveted non-HMS MD is as much "backup" as a DO is.

Now, do some people exist that want to go into MD only because they believe there's something wrong with DO schools? Yes. Are they right? To them, yes. No problem. It's like me saying I wouldn't want to go to a school in a really dangerous and racist area. That's my problem. Are there people that genuinely do NOT want to go to an MD school and want a DO school? Yes. Are they right? To them, yes. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe to YOU OMM and the Osteopathic history and philosophy is bull****. Congrats to you, but that doesn't mean everyone else's opinion is the same.

This is it. There's nothing more to say. Go to the school you want/can get into. You don't know the heart-of-hearts of other people, so don't pretend to talk for them or insult them by saying they are inferior. And if they are, so what? Not your problem. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. In my experience, DO's tend to be open about accepting they just didn't get into an MD school and have pretty strong self-esteem because they don't let that dictate who they are as people. The truly weak people would rather abandon medicine than put up with having different initials.

Actually MedPR made a very level-headed and insightful comment. By comparison, your reply comes off as defensive and emotional.

Give the guy a break. MedPR might be a little blunt but at least he doesn't spew BS.

 

[toxicwombat]

The point is YOU are calling all DO matriculates failed MD applicants.

Source? Because I've been following this thread post by post (I know... I don't have a life) and he never once made such a claim.

 

[MedPR]

Oops, ur right, er let me rephrase that:

Best case scenario: You are a physician who makez 700K+
Worst case:....................you are a GP who makes six figurez.

and honestly, everyone knows if IM or FM made the kind of money surgeons made, there would be a lot less empty spots in the match

Such a terrible life, being burdened with a medical school acceptance.

I wasn't offended, I think every specialty has its place.

 

[toxicwombat]

Christ, how you got an 11 in verbal baffles me.

I would guess it has something to do with reading passages carefully and not making erroneous extrapolations. You know, sort of the opposite of what you're doing.

 

[Darkskies]

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you really are a tool. Stay the hell out of UMDNJ SOM and go to the SMP. You have shown yourself to be a petty immature and downright arrogant nobody. You have not stepped into a medical school as a student yet you have such arrogance. You will be the socially challenged, annoying, and poorly performing medical students because you are so hung up on your stats. I would never want you as a colleague (MD or DO) and would NEVER want you as my doctor. I tried hard to see your side but you have proven yourself to be such a dbag.

Wow... How am I arrogant? I've only stated facts and nothing else. You thinking I'm arrogant stems from the fact that you're ascribing emotions to me that are not explicit from what I've written..

 

[JaBoomDay]

Please let this thread die.

 

[Kvothe]

You've stated your opinion and generalizations about DOs and have failed to recognize other perspectives.

I am only applying DO. My stats aren't perfect but I have a background that could get me into an MD school. My father is an MD specialist who attended UCSF, as well as two of his sibilings, and is on multpitle boards dor the school. Why am i not applying MD? Because I have read books on the profession, shadowed many DOs and have concluded that the osteopathic philosophy resonates with me better than MD. Will I use OMM on every patient? No. Will OMM help some people? Absolutely. At worst it is just another tool In the toolkit that can be used as needed. Is it wrong that I want to go into family medicine? I don't think so. Is it wrong that I believe osteopathic schools prepare physicians for primary care better than *many* (not all) MD schools? I don't believe so.

I apologize for being sarcastic and rude earlier; I don't know you or your situation. Please understand that the way you have been posting makes it sound as if DO exists solely as backup for MD.

The best advice I've gotten about times in life when you are at a crossroads is this: never let money stop you from what you believe is best for you. If you get offered a million dollar contract to do something you don't believe in, deny it. If you find a cheap and easy way to do something that may not get you exactly where you want to be, deny it. Never settle based on the fear of financial ruins. It's just money.

No one on this forum can tell you what to do. I hope you use this crossroads as an opportunity to progress as a person. I wish you the best in whatever you decide.

 

[IMDoc607]

Wow... How am I arrogant? I've only stated facts and nothing else. You thinking I'm arrogant stems from the fact that you're ascribing emotions to me that are not explicit from what I've written..

Do you see the way you reply to posts? You pathetically obsessed with stats and love to state how your stats are higher than the average DO student. Are you correct? Yes. Is it fact? Yes, but you come off extremely arrogant. Let me reiterate....you are a no one in medicine yet you love to claim how good and inadequate you are for DO and MD schools respectfully.

Just do your SMP and I fear for the school that ultimately accepts you. Now return with a post with gpa and mcat averages like you and MedPr have been doing. Just do everyone a favor.....stay away from UMDNJ SOM.

 

[costales]

Do you see the way you reply to posts? You pathetically obsessed with stats and love to state how your stats are higher than the average DO student. Are you correct? Yes. Is it fact? Yes, but you come off extremely arrogant. Let me reiterate....you are a no one in medicine yet you love to claim how good and inadequate you are for DO and MD schools respectfully.

Just do your SMP and I fear for the school that ultimately accepts you. Now return with a post with gpa and mcat averages like you and MedPr have been doing. Just do everyone a favor.....stay away from UMDNJ SOM.

Hey doc, don't be too harsh. The secret to win friends and influence people in med school is to put your stats in your email signature and embroider them on your white coat.

 

[psychgirrrl]

Hey doc, don't be too harsh. The secret to win friends and influence people in med school is to put your stats in your email signature and embroider them on your white coat.

BAHAHAHAHHAHA! Thanks for the advice. I will make sure to follow it.

 

[Chiroptile]

OP is really good at getting everybody riled up. This has turned into a very ugly thread that does disservice to both medical degrees. Strange, and somewhat unsettling to think that some of the contributors to this thing are going to eventually represent the medical profession.

 

[MedicMike13]

OP is really good at getting everybody riled up. This has turned into a very ugly thread that does disservice to both medical degrees. Strange, and somewhat unsettling to think that some of the contributors to this thing are going to eventually represent the medical profession.

everytime I read this thread I think about the person next up on UMDNJ SOM's waitlist and how they probably pray everymorning that they will be getting a call.... but instead Darksies will be taking that spot......

 

[IMDoc607]

You've stated your opinion and generalizations about DOs and have failed to recognize other perspectives.

I am only applying DO. My stats aren't perfect but I have a background that could get me into an MD school. My father is an MD specialist who attended UCSF, as well as two of his sibilings, and is on multpitle boards dor the school. Why am i not applying MD? Because I have read books on the profession, shadowed many DOs and have concluded that the osteopathic philosophy resonates with me better than MD. Will I use OMM on every patient? No. Will OMM help some people? Absolutely. At worst it is just another tool In the toolkit that can be used as needed. Is it wrong that I want to go into family medicine? I don't think so. Is it wrong that I believe osteopathic schools prepare physicians for primary care better than *many* (not all) MD schools? I don't believe so.

I apologize for being sarcastic and rude earlier; I don't know you or your situation. Please understand that the way you have been posting makes it sound as if DO exists solely as backup for MD.

The best advice I've gotten about times in life when you are at a crossroads is this: never let money stop you from what you believe is best for you. If you get offered a million dollar contract to do something you don't believe in, deny it. If you find a cheap and easy way to do something that may not get you exactly where you want to be, deny it. Never settle based on the fear of financial ruins. It's just money.

No one on this forum can tell you what to do. I hope you use this crossroads as an opportunity to progress as a person. I wish you the best in whatever you decide.

DO schools do not produce better primary care physicians. I work with MD's and DO's as a resident and future fellow. We all think and practice the same. Are there some exceptions? Of course but it has more to do with the individual's than the degree.

 

[MedPR]

I need to finish that DO book. I can't handle the history lesson it starts off with though.

DO schools do not produce better primary care physicians. I work with MD's and DO's as a resident and future fellow. We all think and practice the same. Are there some exceptions? Of course but it has more to do with the individual's than the degree.

+1. Nobody (MD nor DO) produce better anything. How good you are depends on you, not what type of school you went to.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I need to finish that DO book. I can't handle the history lesson it starts off with though.

Its like that for at least half the book.