don't laugh, just sympathize...I need advice

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doc227

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Here are my credentials
undergrad gpa >3.0
mcat<20 (!!!!!!!!)-even after I attended a summer program, which non-the-less, did not help me
I am currently a senior in college
Do you think I have a shot at DO schools considering my low mcat?

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Doc, I would venture to say that you may want to consider retakin the dreaded MCAT again just to give yourself a little added boost. It's certainly not impossible to get into a DO program with a MCAT under 20, but it does put you a little behind the curve. A good score range to shoot for would be around 22+. While MCAT is only a portion of your application, it's still a pretty big chunk. Your GPA seems like it's in the ballpark (above a 3.0 is good... above a 3.2 is a little better), so great!
 
yikes. Sorry but I concure, I think you are definetly going to have to tackle the MCAT again. Although DO schools do take slightly lower MCAT scores below 20 is too low and would make your application have to be flawless in every other area just to have any chance. Just my opinion. Good luck
 
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The numbers "gap" between allopathic and osteopathic schools is narrowing, unfortunately. Plus, it's not all about the numbers. I know people with numbers good enough to get into any allo school and they were never given an interview at osteopathic schools. It's truly an whole picture kind of thing.

Still, as much I ABHOR the MCAT, I have to concur. You need to do better. I'd say take a year, just work and study gradually for the MCAT. Don't cram. Do a little every day between now and April and/or August (plan to do both sittings of the test so you don't feel like you just have one shot) and kick back a little. Plus, many schools see it as a postive thing to take some time off before going to medical school.

Best of luck. And please....really seriously consider and research the DO degree before you decide to apply. it shouldn't be a "backup". If it is, I think you'll regret your choice. I don't regret mine, but this is what I have wanted to do all along.
 
doc,

we all understand the hardships of the MCAT and what a pain it is. To be honest with you, I echo the posts of the previous people. Unless you are a underrepresented minority, you're chances are very small.

i encourage you to study for the MCAT again and rock it this time! have confidence in yourself and don't let what past score you got get you down...you can definitely do it!

- j
 
Go work in a hospital and see if you even want to be a doctor. You can get your emt-b license and work in an ER. Prior experience goes a long way. Take a couple of classes to boost your sci gpa too. Intro to anatomy or whatever.

Agree with the above about retaking MCAT and researching the DO degree. It may not be what you want. If you retake the MCAT (that test is worse than the USMLE & COMLEX) it will show that you are serious about medicine as a career verses being some person who half-assed applied him/herself and is tepid in determination.
 
Practice tests, practice tests, practice tests. You can review all the material you want, but your problem is probably NOT what you know/don't know. The problem is taking what you know and generating the right answer within the alloted time.

Become a better test taker and you'll improve your score dramatically. It will also benefit you a great deal in med school/taking boards.

Good luck.
 
i fully agreee with ventdependent: experience can make a huge impression and show the adcoms how much you are devoted to medicine, even if you might not have some of the best numbers. D.O. schools from my experience are very open to all kinds of pre-med experience, not just the same ol' stats.
re-taking the MCAT is something to consider, if you think you can get through the studying and practice questions again and evaluate what may have tripped you up the last time.
most of all, don't get discouraged and think it's going to be nearly impossible. do the things that you believe will show your committment to being a physician. they will see it.

i wish you the most luck, and truly hope that you tackle the beast.
 
While I agree that relevant health care experiences might help, the MCAT is still important.

Schools want to know that you can do well on standardized test. In order for you to move on to the 3rd year, to graduate, and eventually to get a license to practice, you must take the COMLEX (all 3 steps).

You have to show that you have the ability to retain a lot of information, and also enough test-taking skills to do well on the COMLEX.

I don't know if there is a direct coorelation between MCAT scores and COMLEX scores. But it is the only standardize test scores (MCAT) available to them (admission committee). Even if you have a great reason for the low scores (I got the flu that day, there was a fire alarm in the middle of testing, I mis-bubbled, etc) ... you still have to show the admission committee that you have the skill to retain a large amount of information ... and also have the ability to do well on high-pressure, timed, standardized tests.

With a MCAT lower than 20, I would suggest you retake the MCAT after you figure out why you did so poorly? Was it one particular section? Are you a poor test-taker? Is English your second or third language? Are you a slow reader?

Once you have figured out and correctly address the issues, then retake the MCAT.

Good luck.

Group_theory
"Giving bad advice and wrong answers since the dawn of time ... or when a singularity expanded"
 
Doc227: I totally sympathize. I did what someone suggested you do -- I got my EMT-B, and I'm working as a tech in a really excellent ER. I'm loving the experience... but I'm still wetting my pants to think of the academic stuff ahead. I'm plenty smart, IQ-wise, but I never got the hang of being a really excellent student. I don't do amazingly well on standardized tests.

So I hope you'll know, I dig where you're coming from. And when I say what I'm going to say, I hope it'll come across in the spirit I intend it, because it's what I would do, and will do, if my own MCAT (in 2005, if all goes to plan) turns out <20.

Study hard, take a practice test every 4 weeks, and also do that real-world-experience thing. More is better, but it's never too late. Then re-take that bad boy, and do your utmost to spank it hard.

And then, if it just isn't coming together in that way that med schools happen to like... think about other healthcare careers. There are always going to be people who would make great doctors, but can't get in the door. Fight like hell to overcome your obstacles, but at some point it's honorable to consider other paths. If my choice was to stand still and retake the MCAT year after year after year, hoping for a seat in med school, or go forth and find another way to contribute, I'd only bang my head against the wall so many times.

Other programs might involve study that works better with the way your brain is programmed. Other schools might not have the need to be so number-centered.

My own research tells me that PA school is no easier to get into than med school, but yuo may find otherwise in your research. And the world needs good nurses in a serious way. Heck, the world is so short of nurses right now that adequate ones can get excellent jobs. And anyway, a good nurse can make a bigger difference in the life of a sick person than anyone else, anyhow. Radiology techs have a pretty kickin' thing going. EMT's and Paramedics have all the best stories. Everybody right up to the guy who restocks the supply room shelves is doing important work, and has the right to feel proud.

Don't feel like you're a failure if you don't happen to fit the med school mode, is all I'm trying to say. The test-taking and GPA stuff may or may not matter when you're a physician, but it definitely matters while you're an applicant and a student. It's a necessary evil, and it tends to inordinately reward poindexters with scary levels of focus and ambition, true. But docs need to hold all that trivia in their heads, and know when and how to perform the right procedure or get the right test, that one time in a thousand it's needed. Not all of us are going to make it to the land of long white coats, and that's cool too. We might belong somewhere nearby.
 
I appreciate all the responses; they have all been very useful to me. I will re-take the mcat, but most likely in August. Where can I get adequate practice test? I found it amazing when I attended the program in the summer-I would score decent on certain sections, but I did poorly on the test. I was there for six weeks, and when I finally arrived home and started to test myself from other materials my score would decrease.

Also, what about postbaccalaureate programs? How would the program help me? Is it too late to apply?
 
Here is a great place to access real, actual, previously given MCAT's put out by the people that give us the actual MCAT. I bought a number of the individual test a few years ago, but I noticed they now give you access to all the tests for only $80, which is a great price. Well worth the money for lots of MCAT practice.

http://services.aamc.org/AAMC_STORE/catalog.cfm

I also used the big Kaplan book found at any book store. Here is amazon's link.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0743241509/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-3454006-5580848#reader-link

I took Kaplan but didn't go to all the classes like I should have. Lots going on in my family. They did help me improve my verbal score by a whole bunch. And they did help me become aware of what taking a test like that felt like, (ex: I learned my neck would start to ache from looking down at the test for so long, so I took advil before the test)

I did get below 20 the first time. A death in my family at the time. I studied on my own at home or at the library, did lots and lots of practice questions and was able to pull my score up, except in the PS section which included physics which I HATE!!!!

It is going to take alot of work on your part for the next months to get ready for April or August. Practice every day.

Good luck. A lot of us know where you are right now and what it feels like.

AS to post-grad - It could help but I don't know if it would be enough to overshadow a low MCAT score. If you are a senior and haven't signed up to graduate, you could continue to take classes, perhapes upper level courses to improve your GPA. There is no rule saying you have to apply for graduation in May. What is your major? Is it a science major?

Some schools let you sign up for upper graduate level courses if you are a senior. Otherwise you could graduate and see if your school has a certificate program that is 1 year long to take upper level courses. Be aware though, some of those programs are very hard and require you to take a lot of very hard courses in a short time.
 
Everyone say you need to retake MCAT, but how to improve?

From your score, you either did not study at all(but still a bit low) or you did not quite understand the materials. My advise for the later one will be get private tutors along with a prep course. Find some really good students to be your tutor to review all science materials. Don't use kaplan private tutor, too expensive. Post you ad at your local schools, there will be someone who wants to earn extra $$$ ( $20/hr). Review every subject chapter by chapter and do all the problems. Make sure you understand every bit of details. It will take you some time, (3-6 month at least, maybe 1 year). MCAT is testing your understanding of materials not your ability to memorize stuff. A good understanding is the basis of a good score. After that or along with it, you can take a prep course to learn and understand the specific topics that will be on MCAT. Also , Kaplan offers good & detailed explanations for all of their practice tests, so you will benefit a lot from reading their answer sheets.

This is my 2 cents, but someone said that I am always wrong. TAKE WITH CAUTION. :) :) :)
 
As much as I hate to, I have to agree with lealf-ye. You take the time between now and April and spend at least one hour a day on MCAT material, especially the basic sciences (over verbal). All the topics that you know will be represented, like genetic pedigrees, electrochemical half-reactions, properties of periodic table should be learned backward and forward, not just glanced over. You will find that this will help you more than trying to get a 'big-picture' ides of the MCAT. Every time you come to a complex topic, think 'how could this potentially be turned into a question?' and go from there. This will help you learn it much better. I have also learned that this is the way to stude for med school and the boards, and it would be advantageous to start studying this way now. Good luck
 
Check out Examkrackers (www.examkrackers.com). They have great materials that leave out the fluff and the unnecessary formulas.

I used Kaplan materials my first time around, and was very disappointed. I then turned to Examkrackers, and was very pleased. Live courses are available in the northeast, and if you aren't in an area where a course is offered you can always post your question on their website. One of the authors will answer it, free of charge, usually within 24 hours.

If you're motivated (and it sounds like you are), and you consistently put in your study time over a period of months, Examkrackers will really pay off.

I second what Amy B said. The practice tests from AAMC for $80 are a great suggestion. Just be sure to print them out and take them by hand rather than on the computer. It's important to get your timing down, and bubbling in your answers on paper should be taken into consideration.
 
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