Doing second residency in radiology

[elanmorin]

Hi all, I'm on track to complete my neurology residency this year and while I enjoy localization and the neuro exam, the day-to-day of dealing with insurances and patients who often have nothing wrong with them tends to become a drag after a while. Radiology seems like a good way to focus on anatomy/localization especially if I can subspecialize in neurorads and also not have to worry about insurance/needy patients.

Anyone have experience with doing a second residency? Curious how I'd be viewed as an applicant having already completed a residency. Would the focus still be on step scores, or more recent performance evals/ITEs? I understand it would be adding another 4-5 years of training (assuming my previous PGY1 year as a IM prelim would count). Would there be issues with obtaining funding for this? I do have some close contacts with neurorads at my institution, but not sure on the best way to approach them about my intentions. Any advice is appreciated.

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[Dave1980]

your prelim would count. the institution wouldnt get any funding for your training. im not sure how big a deal that is.

they would focus on your STEP scores and your performance in neurology residency. you wont get a pass if you have low scores because you already did a residency.

i would talk to the neurorads in your institution but they probably wont be of much help.

have you done any neuroimaging projects during residency? do you have any demonstrated interest in rads? that will be a big hurdle. to convince a program that you actually care about rads

 

[deleted941485]

your prelim would count. the institution wouldnt get any funding for your training. im not sure how big a deal that is.

they would focus on your STEP scores and your performance in neurology residency. you wont get a pass if you have low scores because you already did a residency.

i would talk to the neurorads in your institution but they probably wont be of much help.

have you done any neuroimaging projects during residency? do you have any demonstrated interest in rads? that will be a big hurdle. to convince a program that you actually care about rads

What if your in Rad-onc and have an interest?

 

[Dave1980]

What if your in Rad-onc and have an interest?

i think youre in the same boat. job market is garbage for rad onc i have heard. you need to demonstrate that you have a legit interest in rads.

you will face an uphill battle but it should be possible if you are smart about it

 

[deleted941485]

i think youre in the same boat. job market is garbage for rad onc i have heard. you need to demonstrate that you have a legit interest in rads.

you will face an uphill battle but it should be possible if you are smart about it

Been an Radiation oncologist attending for almost 4 years with a family. I work with radiologists everyday working in a community satellite for obvious reasons. It’s a 4 year commitment but I wouldn’t hesistate to do it considering the opportunity costs are rapidly shrinking.

 

[Dave1980]

Been an Radiation oncologist attending for almost 4 years with a family. I work with radiologists everyday working in a community satellite for obvious reasons. It’s a 4 year commitment but I wouldn’t hesistate to do it considering the opportunity costs are rapidly shrinking.

itll be 5 years as fellowship is essentially mandatory. feel free to PM me if you have any questions

 

[Tiger100]

What if your in Rad-onc and have an interest?

For the most part radiology programs appreciate your interest. You will find a spot if you are flexible and you go for it seriously.

But make sure you are switching fields for good reasons. If you really want to do rads, then definitely do it. You live only once and you have to do what makes you happy and not what people around you say.

 

[Taurus]

When I was applying to radiology, the radiology job market was starting its descent. When I was an R2, the market hit bottom. Med students were afraid to apply to radiology. We even had a resident who switched into IM after being with us for just 1 month (I bet he regrets that decision now). Fast forward 10 years later, we have a hot job market.

I wasn’t terribly worried when I applied to radiology. The bad job market was caused by the 2008 financial crisis which wiped out 401k’s. Older radiologists couldn’t retire. There is a very careful balance of retiring and graduating physicians in any field to maintain a healthy job market.

For anyone who wants to switch, the question you need to ask yourself is: are the problems in my field temporary, ie, radiology, or are there permanent, long-lasting structural changes that will lead to a long term decline of the field, ie, pathology and nuc medicine. Bonus points if the field is innovative and constantly creating new applications, ie, radiology. Negative points if your field actively researches for reasons why they should reduce your bread & butter modality, ie, RadOnc.

 

[Cognovi]

I know several of my attendings who did another residency before radiology: IM, IM, neurology, IM, a few years of neurosurgery, emergency medicine.

Make the jump and don't look back!

 

[collegestud2013]

Hi all, I'm on track to complete my neurology residency this year and while I enjoy localization and the neuro exam, the day-to-day of dealing with insurances and patients who often have nothing wrong with them tends to become a drag after a while. Radiology seems like a good way to focus on anatomy/localization especially if I can subspecialize in neurorads and also not have to worry about insurance/needy patients.

Anyone have experience with doing a second residency? Curious how I'd be viewed as an applicant having already completed a residency. Would the focus still be on step scores, or more recent performance evals/ITEs? I understand it would be adding another 4-5 years of training (assuming my previous PGY1 year as a IM prelim would count). Would there be issues with obtaining funding for this? I do have some close contacts with neurorads at my institution, but not sure on the best way to approach them about my intentions. Any advice is appreciated.

Cutting out administrative tasks and difficult patients be benefit of switching to a field without direct patient care, but switching is obviously a major undertaking and getting into a 2nd residency for those who have done is much harder than getting into your 1st one. And keep in mind that radiology has its own share of downsides as well and the job market in the future can be very uncertain even if its decent right now as historically it has had more fluctuations than many other specialties. Also the financial opportunity cost from extra years of training will be huge. You prelim year will count toward radiology so no need to repeat that, but you will have done 3 more years of training than if you had just went straight into into radiology after your prelim year so that easily over $ 1 to 1.5 million in lost attending income so you would have to okay with that.

But if you still want to switch make sure you Step scores are competitive (Radiology tends to focus by the most on Step 1and recently has been much more competitive to match into than Neurology). Funding for a 2nd residency can be an issue at some programs, as some programs would not get the full Medicare funding amount for all 4 years of your training (though they may be able to get partial funding) while others will, but determining whether a specific program will get full funding is complex matter. But it can definitely hurt your chances at matching, as programs are less likely to take you if their department or institution has to partially fund your salary/benefits. You would need a radiology rotation with a LOR from a radiologist (hopefully you can set up a rotation a radiologist at your current institution), but more importantly your LOR from your Neurology PD will be weighed the most. Med school grades will probably count less at this point (but not completely off the table).

If your current institution also has a radiology residency that may be the best bet and a good starting point. However, for most people I wouldn't count on it and you would then have to apply broadly and be willing to go anywhere in the U.S. And remember that most Radiology positions in the Match are Advanced positions that start the year after you Match so you would have a year off (probably could use that time to work as a Neurology attending).