BOTH Doing poorly in classes to prepare for boards?

[kurite]

Hello,
I am planning on starting to study essentially at the very beginning of second year for the USMLE + COMLEX. I am looking at Derm so I need to do well (to say the least). Is it a bad idea to do somewhat poorly in class in order to prepare for boards for the entire year?
Thank you

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[plasmodium]

If your school has a USMLE-based curriculum, this would be a terrible idea.

 

[kurite]

I dont believe they do, at least they don't for first year. I was thinking of using First Aid + picmonics as well as a question bank or two. Even with this setup do you think its a bad idea to not do very well in classes?

 

[OverlyRomantic]

Well, I'm no expert, but it seems to me that a lot of the people with the really high scores attribute a big part of their success to being on top of their classes. Remember, FA is a review book meant to reinforce concepts you'll learn in class. If you learn well for class the first time (and add in a dedicated study time); I think you can crush the boards and classes. Good luck!

 

[zhopv10]

I think not using class to your advantage would not be helpful. It could be helpful however to use things like FA, firecracker, etc. as outlines to prioritize topics and ideas. I.e these can help you pick out excessive nuance that you are being tested in for classes vs core concept you need down for boards. For my own study for example I would listen to lectures, study those sections in FA/firecracker for a chunk of time and reinforce those concepts with lecture and then a day or two before the test go back through lectures cram details that are obviously not board material but are needed for the test. I haven't taken step yet though so take that with a grain of salt of course but it is working well for classes. Good luck!

 

[Phloston]

The highest scorers are often NOT at the top of their classes.

 

[Transposony]

Based on the exam experiences on this forum doing well in Med school has been the single best predictor of a high score on USMLE.
Makes sense since "you can't review which you never knew" !
Moreover you can't really understand FA without a good knowledge of the subject.

 

[plasmodium]

The highest scorers are often NOT at the top of their classes.

At my school this is not the case. There is a documented positive correlation between GPA and step scores. Unanimously, our third year students, fourth year students, and alum all believe GPA is the most important predictor of success on the boards for students at my school.

I have heard horror stories, however, that many of the U.S. schools do not foster a USMLE-based curriculum, and thus students are forced to scramble and decide between passing class, and studying for the boards.

 

[OrthoRehab33]

Id say shoot for at least class average. Above that is usually really specific details but below average id say your not getting the foundation needed

 

[CyberMaxx]

Id say shoot for at least class average. Above that is usually really specific details but below average id say your not getting the foundation needed

I agree with this. I think if you are doing poorly in class it is a bad sign. If you are talking about dropping from top 20 in your class to top 30 or something like that then I think it is a matter of personal preference and goals - as long as you are actually implementing a solid study plan. But if you are consistently scoring in the bottom half of your class you might be running the risk of not learning things well the first time. What I have found going through second year trying to study for Step along the way is that reviewing is definitely preparing me for Step 1, but if I don't learn new material from class, and at least try to crush the class tests, I end up leaving a block feeling like didn't master the material.

I would also add that the big caveat to my statements above would be if you are a person who has done well in class so far but is very consciously prioritizing Step 1 studying. I think this can be done, and you can come out with a great step 1 score even with poor class performance, but it is likely a lot more difficult than most people assume.

tl;dr learn new material by studying for school and class exams (with the goal of crushing each exam) but implement a smart review plan throughout the year and keep up with it to make sure you are prepared for Step 1

 

[Derivations]

Study hard for your classes but be able to weed out the information that is essential for boards. Frequently, at least at my school, the professors go into too much detail and if you spend hours and hours memorizing the minutia that won't be on step 1 you are essentially wasting your time. There is a balance. A good way to find that balance is to use FA/pathoma along with your classes to find out where you should direct focus.

 

[Phloston]

There are two trusted guys I know from this SDN forum who got 269 and 274, respectively, who were self-proclaimed in the bottom one-third of their class. In terms of students I've tutored as well, if they are too perfectionist about acing class they tend to neglect the step and settle, and it's frustrating to watch.

 

[plasmodium]

There are two trusted guys I know from this SDN forum who got 269 and 274, respectively, who were self-proclaimed in the bottom one-third of their class. In terms of students I've tutored as well, if they are too perfectionist about acing class they tend to neglect the step and settle, and it's frustrating to watch.

Sorry, while I respect your advice and appreciated how you've personally helped me previously, I'm very doubtful that these two anomalies represent the majority of schools' bottom one-third. Kudos to them, though.

 

[malin]

Id say shoot for at least class average. Above that is usually really specific details but below average id say your not getting the foundation needed

I whole-heartedly agree with this.

I scored in the 250s and never really got honors on my school's exams (I think maybe one subject I honored out of like 20). I would score average, but I just didn't feel like spending the extra time needed to learn those silly nitty-gritty details in our school's material. For one I was also spending the extra time I had on some clinical research, but I really wanted to do well on boards.

I focused exclusively on boards, and would really only study for our school's stuff when it was necessary to make sure I passed the exams.

I focused on knowing First Aid and Pathoma inside out, learning UWorld really well, and doing as many practice questions as I could.

MY short answer is yes, in some instances it can be beneficial to forgo focusing on class material and go all out on boards (even if that means you don't get all honors) but it's tough to say if it's what you should do. Grades from MS1-2 still play some role, but not nearly as much as clinical grades, even if it is for a competitive specialty like derm

 

[Phloston]

Sorry, while I respect your advice and appreciated how you've personally helped me previously, I'm very doubtful that these two anomalies represent the majority of schools' bottom one-third. Kudos to them, though.

Many school curricula don't cater to the usmle and waste people's time. This isn't coming from me as my own isolated statement. It's what I hear from many students. If your program teaches to the usmle then 'kudos' to you. But often times class requirements are tangential at best. Not here to bicker. But I've worked with many people and have seen students on this forum for a while now and it's not an anomaly.

 

[tasar1898]

I agree with @Phloston . Step 1 doesnt really test details professors like to talk about , but rather if you have an ''universal'' understanding of the basic sciences and their application..

 

[worldbeater]

Same here, the "dumbest" kids at my school studied hard for a year and did really well. I think it's because they had a chip on their shoulder and used it to their advantage.

 

[ATypicalLymphocyte]

This thread's title is highly misleading. It seems to pose "doing poorly in classes" as a preparation method in and of itself.

 

[PhillyMed777]

Correlation of class grades and step 1 at my school is about 0.8
and its been this way for many years

 

[iamgonnaeat]

There maybe some correlation to class grades and step score, but towards the end of my 2nd year, I didn't even attend classes or view any lectures. I just concentrated on step studying and did really well. I barely passed several of my class exams towards the end though.

 

[rdk322]

There maybe some correlation to class grades and step score, but towards the end of my 2nd year, I didn't even attend classes or view any lectures. I just concentrated on step studying and did really well. I barely passed several of my class exams towards the end though.

Hey @iamgonnaeat I'm at a crossroad finding myself in a similar situation. I have about 3 systems to go through (endo (half way through it), repro, skin/muscle). I stopped going to class so my rank definitely dropped but it's kind of hurting my morale tbh and I don't know what is the right thing to do...

 

[Phloston]

Same here, the "dumbest" kids at my school studied hard for a year and did really well. I think it's because they had a chip on their shoulder and used it to their advantage.

So you're saying people who are passionate and study hard have chips on their shoulders. Interesting conclusion. Curious as to the conclusions you'd draw with actual patients.

 

[worldbeater]

So you're saying people who are passionate and study hard have chips on their shoulders. Interesting conclusion. Curious as to the conclusions you'd draw with actual patients.

Sorry if I offended you, it was just an observation of a couple students from my school. They weren't doing that great in school and really wanted to do well on Step 1, hence they had some extra motivation. A small sample size I guess. Of course I am not making a direct correlation that all students who are passionate and study hard have chips on their shoulders.

 

[Phloston]

This isn't about me and could care less. It just seemed like an unusual statement to make correlating assiduous study habits with people who have issues. If anything this forum is filled with people who work hard and we should all be thankful for that.

 

[worldbeater]

If anything this forum is filled with people who work hard and we should all be thankful for that.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

 

[mymembernames]

Is it just my school or has class attendance dropped dramatically? Less than 1/4 class attendance here and people are mostly focusing on boards and ignoring class material. My only worry/concern is if it will come back to bite us in 3rd year? Or will we come across the necessary info in qbanks/first aid?

 

[allojay]

Is it just my school or has class attendance dropped dramatically? Less than 1/4 class attendance here and people are mostly focusing on boards and ignoring class material. My only worry/concern is if it will come back to bite us in 3rd year? Or will we come across the necessary info in qbanks/first aid?

The way I see it, you've got to pass the beast to even make it into third year so why not just go hard on boards now and focus on 3rd year when it approaches? It's what most people do.

 

[mymembernames]

The way I see it, you've got to pass the beast to even make it into third year so why not just go hard on boards now and focus on 3rd year when it approaches? It's what most people do.

I agree!

 

[malin]

I will say it is a balance. There will be some Step 1 questions which you won't find in UW, FA, and Pathoma but you would find in some places in your school's curriculum. I certainly got a couple of questions right b/c I still looked at my school's curriculum a bit. But I would still place the vast majority of one's focus on boards resources and only very little in the school's stuff if you don't care about getting honors and just want to crush boards.

If your school covers a pathology topic from Robbins that you don't see in Pathoma, it can certainly pop up on your Step 1, so you should probably study it. But if some professor is talking about some random genetics study from last year, it's probably not worth studying inside out for boards, even if it will be on your school's test

Just be careful and don't listen to any school administrators who try to mislead you by saying that you should only study their school's stuff and not any boards resources. Again, it's a balance; do some boards, and learn whatever school-specific lectures you think are important.

 

[apr27]

Hey @iamgonnaeat I'm at a crossroad finding myself in a similar situation. I have about 3 systems to go through (endo (half way through it), repro, skin/muscle). I stopped going to class so my rank definitely dropped but it's kind of hurting my morale tbh and I don't know what is the right thing to do...

I know I'm late to this, but I feel this way exactly!

Edit: Any updates on how everyone has been doing?

 

[mymembernames]

Following lecture material makes things more confusing to me, but it just might be me. Them profs just through all this crap at you at once and it makes me confused quiet quickly...

 

[Mad Jack]

Hello,
I am planning on starting to study essentially at the very beginning of second year for the USMLE + COMLEX. I am looking at Derm so I need to do well (to say the least). Is it a bad idea to do somewhat poorly in class in order to prepare for boards for the entire year?
Thank you

Do Bro's anki deck from day 1 of second year. Learn Sketchy micro and pharm over the summer. Do USMLE Rx if you're a big fan of First Aid (I wish I had- the integration of FA into the answers would have saved me a lot of time and helped me with memorization much sooner). Supplement with class-relevant material if you want to keep your grades up.

Keep in mind that if you fail a class because you're focusing too heavy on the boards, you're giving yourself a red flag. You've got to keep some semblance of balance.

And a LOT of things aren't in FA. It's simply not enough to prepare you for the boards, so get on learning things to their full depth and breadth ASAP. If you didn't master biochem or anatomy yet, get them down by the end of year 1. People say they're low yield topics, but they're (along with the other low-yield garbage) the difference between a 230 and a 260.

 

[HereWeGo21]

Just throwing this out there, but I would NOT recommend doing poorly in classes.

I didn't study obsessively, and I mainly focused on topics that I suspected might be on the USMLE. Eventually, I feel like I gained somewhat of a 6th sense for "boards-worthy" material, and focused on that. Still though, I put considerable effort into my classes. I wound up probably 80th or 85th percentile in my preclinicals (which are pass fail by the way). The fact is, the score I achieved on boards would NOT have been possible if I had slacked off in classes. Classes are where you build a strong base, and that's where a large portion of the heavy lifting gets done, in my opinion. Then, for boards studying you refine your knowledge and your test taking strategies. But I would never slack in class to prepare for boards.

I guess, more specifically, I would never slack on the CONCEPTS. It's ok to slack on some of the details. For example, we learned in depth about management of mild vs. moderate asthma, or guidelines for mammography and when to biopsy breast lesions. This material will NOT be on step 1, and I knew that, so I skipped it. But when we were discussing the HPA axis, or the findings in pituitary vs. adrenal hypocortisolism, I spent a lot of effort trying to achieve deep understanding with that. And that all happened during my classes.

Fact is, FA is just a list of facts. Reading FA and thinking you'll ace boards is like reading the dictionary and thinking you'll have a good vocabulary. The best way to get a good vocabulary is not to try to memorize the dictionary, but to READ A LOT OF BOOKS so you gain a FUNCTIONAL knowledge of how the words work with each other. The brain is much better at learning that way than it is at learning lists. And that functional knowledge is best gained during class.

Sure, you could not study your lecture material at all, and only read FA during preclinical. I heard of a guy who did that. But I don't think that would be effective; that's like reading the dictionary. Instead, focus on class, especially the CONCEPTS, and gain functional knowledge. Then, just refine that during your dedicated study time. Any boards studying done during your preclinical time should just be on top of what you've already mastered from class, not instead of it. Just my 2¢