Does this qualify as working for non-profit?

[donkeykong1]

As a future anesthesiologist, if I plan on working for an Anesthesia managed care company or private practice group contracted by a non-profit hospital does this satisfy the requirement for Public Service Loan Forgiveness?

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[DrMidlife]

nope. if the org that cuts your paycheck is nonprofit then it's nonprofit. in a contract, the hospital is your customer, not your employer.

 

[RangerBob]

Just as DrMidlife said, what matters is who signs your paycheck. In your case your employer would be the private practice group, not the hospital you're working at. (You would need to work FOR the hospital for be PLSF eligible).

In my experience, lots of people don't fully understand this, so it's a good thing you asked.

 

[donkeykong1]

Just as DrMidlife said, what matters is who signs your paycheck. In your case your employer would be the private practice group, not the hospital you're working at. (You would need to work FOR the hospital for be PLSF eligible).

In my experience, lots of people don't fully understand this, so it's a good thing you asked.

Is there a website that lists which health care groups are non profit? Besides the academic ones

 

[donkeykong1]

Basically I have about 250k in loans, about 60k of that is high interest Gradplus. I'm planning on doing 4 years residency plus a 1 year fellowship, which means I will be working 5 years at a non profit by default. Should I start making IBR payments during residency to qualify for PSLF or go into forbearance?

I'm planning on taking a private practice job as an attending..though I'm not 100% sure at this stage. Keep in mind the avg academic anesthesia salary is about 200-300k while a fellowship trained anesthesiologist makes between 350-450k

 

[DrMidlife]

Is there a website that lists which health care groups are non profit? Besides the academic ones

"Health care group" isn't a phrase that gets you very far. I think you are asking if there's a way for you to target anesthesia employers based on tax status, and I doubt you'll find a list. Also the info changes over time as hospitals buy practices and as practices buy each other. In your shoes I'd target a handful of regions, and start building your own list, maybe starting from individual MDs. For instance, pick a hospital, see if anes is one of the specialties by which you can search providers, and then dive deep on each provider to see what practice they're with. For instance, google "anesthesia Milwaukee" to find the anes practices there. I expect that individual practice group websites at least hint at their status, and over time you can get your own mini-MBA by learning how to tease out the info you need. Maybe others can suggest ways to search for tax status of a practice group that includes MD anesthesiologists.

...I will be working 5 years at a non profit by default.

Not necessarily. You'll need to be the grownup in charge of caring about the actual tax status of your actual employer at a residency program. There's no defacto nonprofitness about residency. Not all residencies take the usual Medicare funding.

You also need to be the grownup in charge of knowing whether it's likely or beneficial to stay at your residency site for fellowship. I have no idea if 1 year is the norm for anes fellowships or how competitive/regional the various subspecialties are.

Should I start making IBR payments during residency to qualify for PSLF or go into forbearance?

Let's throw that back at you: what do you perceive as the benefits of doing forbearance vs. starting IBR? Do you anticipate not being able to handle the IB part of IBR during residency, by which I mean do you have valid reasons to not be able to afford the federal loan payments calculated Based on your Income during residency?

I'm planning on taking a private practice job as an attending..though I'm not 100% sure at this stage. Keep in mind the avg academic anesthesia salary is about 200-300k while a fellowship trained anesthesiologist makes between 350-450k

I totally understand the terror of massive student debt, but I suggest that PSLF eligibility may not belong on your top 5 list of decision points in planning your career specifics. As you'll see by reading the PSLF discussions here and elsewhere, the stability of the program and its friendliness for helping those at the top 25% of income in the US is not a given.

And I suggest that you're way off the reservation in trying to combine PSLF, anesthesia, private practice, and income levels over $300k. You're unicorn hunting. If you meet an actual unicorn fitting your parameters (anes MD/DO in practice, successfully maintaining PSLF status through employers that will still be non-profit in your own time frame), then maybe it's more possible than I'm describing.

Best of luck to you.

 

[donkeykong1]

"Health care group" isn't a phrase that gets you very far. I think you are asking if there's a way for you to target anesthesia employers based on tax status, and I doubt you'll find a list. Also the info changes over time as hospitals buy practices and as practices buy each other. In your shoes I'd target a handful of regions, and start building your own list, maybe starting from individual MDs. For instance, pick a hospital, see if anes is one of the specialties by which you can search providers, and then dive deep on each provider to see what practice they're with. For instance, google "anesthesia Milwaukee" to find the anes practices there. I expect that individual practice group websites at least hint at their status, and over time you can get your own mini-MBA by learning how to tease out the info you need. Maybe others can suggest ways to search for tax status of a practice group that includes MD anesthesiologists.

Not necessarily. You'll need to be the grownup in charge of caring about the actual tax status of your actual employer at a residency program. There's no defacto nonprofitness about residency. Not all residencies take the usual Medicare funding.

You also need to be the grownup in charge of knowing whether it's likely or beneficial to stay at your residency site for fellowship. I have no idea if 1 year is the norm for anes fellowships or how competitive/regional the various subspecialties are.

Let's throw that back at you: what do you perceive as the benefits of doing forbearance vs. starting IBR? Do you anticipate not being able to handle the IB part of IBR during residency, by which I mean do you have valid reasons to not be able to afford the federal loan payments calculated Based on your Income during residency?

I totally understand the terror of massive student debt, but I suggest that PSLF eligibility may not belong on your top 5 list of decision points in planning your career specifics. As you'll see by reading the PSLF discussions here and elsewhere, the stability of the program and its friendliness for helping those at the top 25% of income in the US is not a given.

And I suggest that you're way off the reservation in trying to combine PSLF, anesthesia, private practice, and income levels over $300k. You're unicorn hunting. If you meet an actual unicorn fitting your parameters (anes MD/DO in practice, successfully maintaining PSLF status through employers that will still be non-profit in your own time frame), then maybe it's more possible than I'm describing.

Best of luck to you.

Keeping in mind 5 years of post grad training. If IBR covers interest for the first 3 years, can I make IBR Payments for 3 years then make additional payments to cover annual interest for the next 2 years, then refinance and aggressively pay off loans as an attending?

Also if I plan to pay off student loan interest each month, would these payments be tax deductible during the 5 years of residency/fellowship??

 

[donkeykong1]

Seems like as of 12/17/2015 REPAYE over IBR is the future

 

[RangerBob]

Keeping in mind 5 years of post grad training. If IBR covers interest for the first 3 years, can I make IBR Payments for 3 years then make additional payments to cover annual interest for the next 2 years, then refinance and aggressively pay off loans as an attending?

Also if I plan to pay off student loan interest each month, would these payments be tax deductible during the 5 years of residency/fellowship??

IBR only covers unpaid subsidized loan interest for up to three years. I believe REPAYE does the same and covers perhaps half of your unpaid non-subsidized loan interest, but that statement I saw on a separate website--I've yet to see any details from the government about REPAYE.

You can deduct up to $2500 in student loan interest each year, and that's all. And once you're an attending you will almost certainly be phased out of this benefit.

 

[DrMidlife]

studentloans.gov has REPAYE info now.

 

[donkeykong1]

IBR only covers unpaid subsidized loan interest for up to three years. I believe REPAYE does the same and covers perhaps half of your unpaid non-subsidized loan interest, but that statement I saw on a separate website--I've yet to see any details from the government about REPAYE.

You can deduct up to $2500 in student loan interest each year, and that's all. And once you're an attending you will almost certainly be phased out of this benefit.

Do I consolidate after the 6 month grace period? When is the best time to do this?

To be eligible for REPAYE, is it better to consolidate all my perkins and FFEL Stafford into a direct loan, rather than lumping it with the direct grad plus and direct stafford? All my loans except for perkins are under one loan servicer anyways

Does the subsidized status of a loan change after consolidation?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Do I consolidate after the 6 month grace period? When is the best time to do this?

To be eligible for REPAYE, is it better to consolidate all my perkins and FFEL Stafford into a direct loan, rather than lumping it with the direct grad plus and direct stafford? All my loans except for perkins are under one loan servicer anyways

Does the subsidized status of a loan change after consolidation?

No -- if you consolidate, the subsidized part remains subsidized and the unsubsidized part remains unsubsidized. The downside of consolidating everything is that you lose the benefit of paying off higher interest loans earlier.

 

[donkeykong1]

No -- if you consolidate, the subsidized part remains subsidized and the unsubsidized part remains unsubsidized. The downside of consolidating everything is that you lose the benefit of paying off higher interest loans earlier.

Not true with perkins loans which by definition are subsidized, I'm not certain about FFEL Subsidized staffords however:

"Can I consolidate a Perkins Loan?

Yes, it is possible to consolidate Perkins Loans into a Direct Consolidation Loan if borrowers include at least one Direct Loan or Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) in their request. Perkins Loans cannot be included in a Direct Consolidation Loan by themselves. Furthermore, all Perkins Loans consolidated into the Direct Loan Program will be included in the unsubsidized portion of the Direct Consolidation Loan."

http://loanconsolidation.ed.gov/help/faq.html#perkinsloan

 

[RangerBob]

FFEL subsidized stafford loans remain subsidized. I consolidated my FFEL loans into the Direct Loan program a year or two ago and I have a subsidized portion to the loan and an unsubsidized loan. I didn't have any Perkins loans.

Doctor Bagel points out the main drawback to consolidation--in addition your interest rate gets rounded up the nearest 1/8th of a percent, and you no payments made before that were PSLF-eligible will carryover, as you now have a new loan.

The biggest advantage, and the only reason I consolidated, as that it allows you to turn FFEL loans into Direct loans, so that they can be PSLF eligible (should PSLF stick around... which is a pretty big if)

 

[donkeykong1]

FFEL subsidized stafford loans remain subsidized. I consolidated my FFEL loans into the Direct Loan program a year or two ago and I have a subsidized portion to the loan and an unsubsidized loan. I didn't have any Perkins loans.

Doctor Bagel points out the main drawback to consolidation--in addition your interest rate gets rounded up the nearest 1/8th of a percent, and you no payments made before that were PSLF-eligible will carryover, as you now have a new loan.

The biggest advantage, and the only reason I consolidated, as that it allows you to turn FFEL loans into Direct loans, so that they can be PSLF eligible (should PSLF stick around... which is a pretty big if)

I havent yet made any loan repayements. So the main reason I would like to consolidate my 8k of perkins and ffel subsidized stafford into a direct loan is to be eligible for REPAYE. By doing this the interest on the subsidizd portion is covered for 3 years ad there is always the option of PSLF, though i will most likely refiance in 5yrs. Is this a good reason to consolidate these loans?

 

[RangerBob]

I havent yet made any loan repayements. So the main reason I would like to consolidate my 8k of perkins and ffel subsidized stafford into a direct loan is to be eligible for REPAYE. By doing this the interest on the subsidizd portion is covered for 3 years ad there is always the option of PSLF, though i will most likely refiance in 5yrs. Is this a good reason to consolidate these loans?

I don't know anything about consolidating perkins loans, so I can't comment on whether it's smart to consolidate those or note. But certainly consolidating your FFEL loans into the direct loan program so they're eligible for REPAYE and PLSF makes sense--that's the same reason I consolidated my FFEL loans.

 

[donkeykong1]

I don't know anything about consolidating perkins loans, so I can't comment on whether it's smart to consolidate those or note. But certainly consolidating your FFEL loans into the direct loan program so they're eligible for REPAYE and PLSF makes sense--that's the same reason I consolidated my FFEL loans.

oh ok makes sense. so when should i consolidate and start REPAYE? after 6 month grace period post med school graduation?

 

[RangerBob]

oh ok makes sense. so when should i consolidate and start REPAYE? after 6 month grace period post med school graduation?

It depends. Consolidation takes a little while (~2 months), so you usually want to do that 2 months before repayment.

If you're consolidating all of your loans (generally done by those with no gradplus loans, since all their loans will then be at the same interest rate), I know some people that will consolidate their loans right after graduation (you have to no longer be in "in-school status" to consolidate your loans). This gives you the advantage of "legitimate" $0 payments (as your income really is $0 when you apply for the consolidation loan, and your prior year tax burden was almost certainly $0 (unless you have a lot of investments, etc.) Plus, you can get a head start on PSLF since you'll start payments right after your loans are consolidated (vs. having to wait until the grace period ends).

 

[Weltschadenfreude]

I thought you don't qualify for income-driven repayment plans if you consolidate. Am I wrong?

 

[DrMidlife]

consolidate private loans with federal loans, you lose the federal repayment benefits

consolidate only federal loans through federal consolidation, you keep the benes

moral of story: if you want repayment benefits like IBR REPAYE PSLF then keep any private loans SEPARATE regardless of what you're offered to consolidate your federal loans with your privates

 

[deleted718115]

Are doctors always hired through third-party organizations? Are any doctors hired directly by non-profit hospitals? Can private hospitals be non-profit?

 

[DrMidlife]

no, yes and yes. this is very specific to regions & individual institutions. there is no general guideline other than to ask about it at interviews.