Doctor

[Archdelux]

Hello all,

Are physical therapists (with a DPT) addressed as Dr. so-and-so, or is it more like pharmacy where doctors are rarely addressed as such?

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[myr11]

From what I understand, usually physical therapists with a DPT are not called Doctor. In the future it is possible it will become more common I guess.

 

[patrickd223]

Have never met a DPT called doctor. In ten years from now who knows? It seems like this industry is changing so rapidly

 

[mountain man]

Greetings I am from the vet forum; also spend time on Podiatric medical forum (because they have great topics), but this one is good as well. My mom just finished with her transitional DPT and introduces herself as Kathy ****, physical therapy doctor. Some clients call her doctor and so do some of her co-workers and our dentist, and family doctor (who is a DO), all call her doctor. Any professional that earns the highest academic degree within their field of study should be able to call themselves doctor (I am no promoter of communism either). I know most people think: "Who cares if it is tradition to only call MDs doctor...too bad....everyone else works very hard for their academic degree and deserves the title as well"; let the MDs say "hi I'm Dr. X, medical doctor", or DPMs say "I'm Dr. X, podiatric medical doctor, or Ph.D Div. say "I'm Dr. X, Doctor of theology". I agree that many, including the AMA needs to give credit where credit is due and realize these newer or improved professionals are highly trained and provide an element of healthcare that MDs have over-looked or deemed not important. I don't agree that MDs should be MADE to embrace these newly trained medical professionals with open arms, and if they want to keep things seperate that is fine with many folks. Here is the flip side, MDs and the AMA however need to understand that if a group of DCs or DPTs want to get together to open up a physical/preventative health clinic and they want to call themselves "doctors" they should have that right to do so (don't try to control me and I won't try to control you; have respect for me and I will for you, simple, seperate, and autonomous). To say you are a doctor does not mean you are equall to the training of medical doctors, but if you are a DO, or DPM you should be able to say you are a medical doctor (DPMs are in a debate with this now); however I think we all understand where MDs are comming from when they say it confuses people for a DPT to call themselves doctor in a hospital setting, because the "average Jo" thinks they are a medical doctor. Personally I respect people's traditions, and if the MDs and lay people only want to allow themselves to think medical doctors are "doctors" that is fine with me, especially when working in a hospital (where medical doctors are the traditional doctors). I think when other un-equally trained medical professionals (excluding DOs, DPMs, perhaps some DMDs) like DCs, DPTs, PsyD, and others are working in a hospital they (at least till things change, or a compromise is reached) should say what type of "doctor they are" so they will not confuse the lay person; but remember that when an MD steps into the DPT/DC clinic he/she will have to introduce themselves as Dr. X, medical doctor (it is elite to think people should just assume). Sorry for going off into this side note, but I just want to bring in another comparison: this is the same problem we are facing in our cultural war in the USA and medicine is part of it. Every day we see one group of people trying to control another. Everyday we see: debates on legal drug use, gay rights, appropriate ethnic slang, music lyrics, illegal immigration, liberals, conservatives, environment, religion....WOW! Did anyone ever think that is why we have so many world religions, cultures, slangs countries, ect in the first place. People should not think they are better than the next person and they have to stop trying to control eveything. People work best when they are seperated into groups that think and act like themselves, but at the same time have respect for the people in the next group who are different. There is no need to make one group think like the other or control them, every thing should be seperate but work as a whole and healthcare is no exception. My advise to new DPTs is, don't ram "DPT doctor" down the MD's esophagus. When you are in their hospitals say you are a physical therapy doctor, but don't let MDs control you and pass elite laws that say you can't open your own clinic and simply call yourself doctor, plus make them say "hi I'm Dr. X, medical doctor when in your clinic. In the dark ages France and England would fight at every availabe event. To say France was better than England, or vise-versa is bogus! Both have remained seperate through history and should hold their identity, but because they have more respect these days for one another they can both work seperate (in their own way) to achieve a better Europe. Perhaps this notion can be developed in healthcare (as well as other parts of culture) and understanding will result, but a seperate, cooperative and respecting identity is the key. I don't want to be like you, you don't have to be like me, don't try to control me, and I will not control you, but when the time calls for it, lets work together to get the job done! Sorry for the long post! Going mad waiting for accept/reject letter from vet school.

Mountain Man

 

[DOctorJay]

the problem is that the lay public does not understand all these different doctorates and therefore "doctor" to most of them means a physician. if you are willing to take the time to explain the difference in your degree as a DPT compared to a MD/DO then fine, call yourself doctor, but do not misrepresent yourself to your patients.

I have no problem with these doctorates and truly appreciate the training and expertise these practitioners have obtained but I do have a problem with people who misrepresent their level of training (which I have personally seen).

 

[bigdan]

Jay-

My thoughts exactly.

I have no qualms with recognizing the degree earned; like mountain man said - they (everyone with a doctorate) earned it.

The trouble comes with the general public, whom are the consumers of said services.

dc

 

[aphistis]

the problem is that the lay public does not understand all these different doctorates and therefore "doctor" to most of them means a physician. if you are willing to take the time to explain the difference in your degree as a DPT compared to a MD/DO then fine, call yourself doctor, but do not misrepresent yourself to your patients.

I have no problem with these doctorates and truly appreciate the training and expertise these practitioners have obtained but I do have a problem with people who misrepresent their level of training (which I have personally seen).

Then it becomes incumbent upon the physicians--who inappropriately, however nonmaliciously, hijacked the term "doctor" in the first place--to educate the public, not the other professionals who are merely exercising their equal claim to the title.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Even advertising their services saying Joe Shmo Doctor of X could be problematic. The average person can't name all the medical specialties and could assume they were an MD/DO trained in that discipline. For dPT, how would you differentiate the Physicians trained in PM&R?

With time the public will be educated since the degree is relatively new. The burden of educating the public should not fall on the shoulders of the physicians, but those who now wish to call themselves doctors.

 

[Kluver Bucy]

The irony is that you don't need a doctorate to be a physician or a surgeon. There are plenty of physicians and surgeons who received their MBBS, which is a bachelor's degree. This allows them to enter a residency program at which time the letters MD are permanently added to their name. They are expected to be called "doctor" while referring to those with doctoral degrees in other fields by their first name.

 

[spondy14]

Bottom line is people that introduce themselves as DR. so and so and are not MD's or DO's are misleading that person. The layperson has NO idea how much training goes into ANY of those fields. Dr. should always be followed with the real title, for instance I am Joe Smith, a doctor of physical therapy, or I am J.S. a Doctor of philosphy, or J.S. a doctor of dentistry, vet. science, etc. Therefore, an MD or a DO would have no problem stating that they are a medical doctor or a doctor of osteopathic medicine. You can argue origins of the word until you are blue in the face, and those that are "educated" of course respect the level of training a doctoral degree requires. However, those that are un-educated in medical terminology WILL NOT understand what kind of doctor you are until it is explained (such as detailed above).

 

[JadedSurgeon]

Any professional that earns the highest academic degree within their field of study should be able to call themselves doctor (I am no promoter of communism either). I know most people think: "Who cares if it is tradition to only call MDs doctor...too bad....everyone else works very hard for their academic degree and deserves the title as well";

Firstr of all, not everyone works hard as MDs to get their academic career. Not even in the same ballpark.We work longer, harder, and are required to have better GPAs and admission tests.

To be fair, it was the MD that made the term "doctor" so prestigous.


If the title "doctor" isn't so important, then why does every tom, dick, and harry want their professional title to be "doctor."

Stop mooching off our hard work.



(I have to edit this: DVMs also work very, very hard, insanely hard, but the argument of animal vs human life is for another time)

 

[myr11]

I am just a pre-med with a lot of time on my hands...I just want to say that maybe you should rethink what you said. You can't equate what a dentist does to what a pediatrician does, or what a physical therapist does, to what a dermatologist does. There are plenty of bad doctors, plenty of bad physical therapists, plenty of great docotrs, etc. Since this is a DPT forum...THere are plenty of DPTs out there that might work just as hard as some type of physicians. You can generalize this. Should a crappy doctor be entitled to the word doctor? Or is it a disgrace to the profession...It isn't doing as much harm if a physical therapist refers to him/herself as a doctor, then if a crappy physician introduces himself as a doctor to any patient...I can absolutley understand why many physical therapists want the title of Doctor...When I talk to many people about physical therapists, they think that they just do massages and have no clue about their education...However when I mention the doctor of physical therapy they think that they are physicians...It is a hard situation I am sure for practicing DPTs.

 

[mountain man]

Yes I do agree with you on many points. There was a good debate on one such occasion in the podiatry forum and someone stated a good point. They said that much of the attitude toward MDs among some alternative healthcare professionals comes from envy. In any event I guess some of these folks first set their sights on allopathic medical school, fail to get accepted but then get accepted from other medical professional school where they feel slightly inferior and have to settle. I thought that was an interesting point. I add that, while still agitated from this experience of not getting first pick of professions/schools, they employ the infamous "American-blame-someone-for-holding-you-back- method" (as I call it, LOL), where they execute all their efforts to prove they are equal to the best, and others (like MDs) are holding them back and traditions better step aside, ect…. I know some of this stuff sounds loony, but have no doubt there is an element of truth in it. The point I was trying to make before was that the only time new medical professionals with "doctor" titles should fight MDs is when MDs really do try to hold them back (and believe me there are elitist MDs that do try to do this). I truly believe that the new medical professionals with "doctor" titles need to educate the public themselves about their abilities and compete in the open market. If it turns out that these non-MD doctors are competent, and good at satisfying the public and are able to address an element of healthcare MDs don’t cover, then they will have found their place among the healthcare industry and will inevitably win their share of consumers. Now taking all things into account, I also know that many of the new healthcare professions (and some old ones) need MDs to survive (for referral basis, ect) and those who understand that do not try to throw dirt at MDs or claim equality, or try to deteriorate MD practices; they simply want to survive in the healthcare market place and live a co-existence with MDs and others (this is where I see DPMs now, and they are gaining respect by the year from physicians, and many of them don’t want to integrate into MD training but would rather hold their autonomy and identity-Like the Bravehearts of medicine LOL!). This is the attitude that is NEEDED EVERYWHERE. I also like and support many new chiropractors that DO NOT walk into hospitals and tell people they are Dr. Cool and can fix anything, but instead try to network with other medical professionals and educate the public and others about a true “chiropractic case”. Its scary but I know that there are some alternative healthcare providers out there that consider their training to be on par (if not superior) with MDs, and are against anything MD, or pharmaceutical and would like it very much if the federal government would step in and mandate an end to traditional MD degree training, and territory as we know it and eliminate or reduce antibiotics and other drugs (and some folks do think along those lines), control pharmaceuticals, ect. I agree that we should not expect or even promote that everyone with an allied medical/professional degree (even if it is a doctorate) has the right to be able to take over traditional MD territory, but at the same time lets not have MDs as the only medical professionals that are legitimate providers (human and animal health is too dam complex for that). Sometimes it’s just a matter of commonsense, if new non-MD doctors are in a hospital, or other traditional MD territory and introduce themselves as Dr. X period, they are deliberately or unintentionally tricking (taking advantage) lay people into thinking they are medical doctors and that tells many folks (educated ones too) that they are envious and secretly want to be MDs. LOL)

 

[sistermike]

I know there are hospitals that have guidelines as to who can be called "doctor". People have come accustomed to equating "doctor" with an MD/DO, thus it can be problematic if a DPT, PharmD, or some other clinical doctor introduce themselves as doctor.

I think if a DPT were in their own private practice, it would be o.k. for their patients to call them doctor; however, an MD/DO should be the only staff in a hospital setting that can be referred as "doctor".

On a further note, a previous poster had responded that medical doctors can practice with an MBBS (or something like that) and it is equivelant to a bachelors degree. Most people do not realize that medical school, podiatry school, physical therapy school, etc. are all considered to be undergraduate. They are technically not "graduate" school. Rather, they are awarding them clinical doctoral degrees and not doctorate degrees that are equivalent to a Ph.D. Most other countries (aside from U.S. and Canada) actually have a 5-6 year undegraduate degree for physicians, rather than the 4 of undergrad and 4 of medical school.

 

[PT2MD]

Our practice act in Texas expressly prohibits a physical therapist to refer to themselves as "Doctor...".

 

[surf pt]

Im a DPT student and Im very much against having any of my furture patients calling me doctor. One of the greatest parts of physical therapy is being able to make the patients comfortable, something I personally think would be hindered by using formalities and having to explain why I think I should be called doctor. Not to mention the fact that it is confusing. Besides, I dont need someone to remind me of my educational accomplishments every time they greet me in order to feel good about all the work Ive put in.

 

[blast7]

The American Physical Therapy Association is taking the stand that you should introduce yourself as described: "Hello Patient A, I am Joe Schmoe a Doctor of Physical Therapy. This is to prevent confusing the patient. I know I certainly get confused when a patient will tells me Dr. So and So said that this is what is going on with them and then I come to find out they meant their Chiropractor told them. This is much different to me then if they were referring to their PCP.

 

[bigdan]

Blast-

That "chiropractor" thing is going to happen to anyone that introduces themselves as "doctor" to a patient...regardless of what you say after the term. Look at what happens now when you walk into a room. An OT or nurse with a long white coat walks in, and the patients say "Hi, Doctor". Doctor of Whatever will not make that clearer, sorry to say. Hell - even medical students (the only people in the hospital that don't get to wear long white coats) get called doctor.

dc

 

[futuredoctorOD]

The fact is anyone who has put in the dedication and time to earn what is termed a "clinical doctorate" (Au.D.--Doctor of Audiology, D.M.D.--Doctor of Dental Medicine, D.D.S.--Doctor of Dental Surgery, D.O.--Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, D.P.T--Doctor of Physical Therapy, D.P.M--Doctor of Podiatric Medicine, M.D.--Doctor of Medicine, O.D.--Doctor of Optometry, Pharm.D. -Doctor of Pharmacy, Psy.D.--Doctor of Clinical Psychology) have every right to be addressed by "Dr" as their title conferrs upon them. The whole argument about patients being confused is only valid if the doctoral level practioner does not clarify "what" they are. Here is a scenario:

Physician : So patient X, I am referring you to Dr. Smith, a clinical psychologist for therapy.

Scenario 2

Patient : Hi Dr. Williamson, I am here to get an evaluation for my hearing deficit. Are you a medical doctor?

Audiologist: No, I am a Doctor of Audiology (Au.D.) I specialize in treating hearing and balance disorders. I will be evaluating you and prescribing a digital hearing aid to help you hear again.

Patient : Oh ok...thank you doc....

Scenario 3

Patient : I am going to see my Dr. Jones, he is my eye doctor...

Patient's friend: Oh you are going to see your optometrist, cool....I need to see mine to see if I want to get Lasik (OD's do pre and post Lasik care)

Scenario 4

Physiatrist: I am sending you to Dr. Spahr for physcial therapy. Dr. Spahr is a physical therapist (DPT) and she is great.

Patient: Thanks Doctor.

Scenario 5

Patient: I am going to see me Dentist, Dr. Antonelli because I have pain in my incisor.

Scenario 6

Family practice physician: I am sending you to Dr. Linwood, he is an optometrist who specializes in treating this type of problem.

Patient: Thank you....

The fact is, the ONLY reason why any MD would have a problem with other clinical doctorate practitioners using the title "Dr" has everthing to do with discontent with ANYONE else having the respect of that title. When you are in practice professionally and respectfully demand you be adressed by your proper title. If this is DPT then it is doctor--------you earned it!
In reality the only profession that has the "real" claim to that title are Ph.D.'s-------for almost a milenium the "Doctor of Philosophy" degree was the ONLY one that used the title Doctor. Medicine adopted this within the last century and a half and then Osteopathy, Optometry, Chiropractic, Dentistry, and so on followed suit. It is all about marketing a profession and brand value...Allopathic medicine has done a great job in this regard. But things are changing and a lot of professions are converting to clinical doctorates. But don't be fooled the bottom line is this:

All of these degrees including MD, OD , whatever are highly trained, thoroughly educated human body technicians with an academicaly conferred title of "Dr." These are jobs-----------bottom line.

 

[beans&flowers]

The fact is anyone who has put in the dedication and time to earn what is termed a "clinical doctorate" (Au.D.--Doctor of Audiology, D.M.D.--Doctor of Dental Medicine, D.D.S.--Doctor of Dental Surgery, D.O.--Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, D.P.T--Doctor of Physical Therapy, D.P.M--Doctor of Podiatric Medicine, M.D.--Doctor of Medicine, O.D.--Doctor of Optometry, Pharm.D. -Doctor of Pharmacy, Psy.D.--Doctor of Clinical Psychology) have every right to be addressed by "Dr" as their title conferrs upon them. The whole argument about patients being confused is only valid if the doctoral level practioner does not clarify "what" they are. Here is a scenario:

Physician : So patient X, I am referring you to Dr. Smith, a clinical psychologist for therapy.

Scenario 2

Patient : Hi Dr. Williamson, I am here to get an evaluation for my hearing deficit. Are you a medical doctor?

Audiologist: No, I am a Doctor of Audiology (Au.D.) I specialize in treating hearing and balance disorders. I will be evaluating you and prescribing a digital hearing aid to help you hear again.

Patient : Oh ok...thank you doc....

Scenario 3

Patient : I am going to see my Dr. Jones, he is my eye doctor...

Patient's friend: Oh you are going to see your optometrist, cool....I need to see mine to see if I want to get Lasik (OD's do pre and post Lasik care)

Scenario 4

Physiatrist: I am sending you to Dr. Spahr for physcial therapy. Dr. Spahr is a physical therapist (DPT) and she is great.

Patient: Thanks Doctor.

Scenario 5

Patient: I am going to see me Dentist, Dr. Antonelli because I have pain in my incisor.

Scenario 6

Family practice physician: I am sending you to Dr. Linwood, he is an optometrist who specializes in treating this type of problem.

Patient: Thank you....

The fact is, the ONLY reason why any MD would have a problem with other clinical doctorate practitioners using the title "Dr" has everthing to do with discontent with ANYONE else having the respect of that title. When you are in practice professionally and respectfully demand you be adressed by your proper title. If this is DPT then it is doctor--------you earned it!
In reality the only profession that has the "real" claim to that title are Ph.D.'s-------for almost a milenium the "Doctor of Philosophy" degree was the ONLY one that used the title Doctor. Medicine adopted this within the last century and a half and then Osteopathy, Optometry, Chiropractic, Dentistry, and so on followed suit. It is all about marketing a profession and brand value...Allopathic medicine has done a great job in this regard. But things are changing and a lot of professions are converting to clinical doctorates. But don't be fooled the bottom line is this:

All of these degrees including MD, OD , whatever are highly trained, thoroughly educated human body technicians with an academicaly conferred title of "Dr." These are jobs-----------bottom line.

love. this. post.

 

[futuredoctorOD]

PT2MD,

Actually you can ues the "Dr" title as a DPT in texas.

http://www.ecptote.state.tx.us/pt/questions.html


"Use of Title

Can I use the title “doctor” if I have a DPT, PhD, or other doctoral level degree? (The Board revised its position on this question at the November 11, 2006 Board meeting)
The use of the title "Doctor" in front of your name is not authorized by your physical therapy license. Correct licensure designation in the provision of physical therapy is the title “physical therapist” and the initials “PT”. However, the Healing Arts Identification Act states that if a person has an academic or honorary degree, they may use the title granted by that degree as long as they clearly designate the degree as well.

If you use the title "doctor", you must also use your licensure designation as well as your academic or honorary degree designation. Here are some examples of proper usage: If Jane Doe has a DPT, she can put "Dr. Jane Doe, PT, DPT" (licensure designation followed by academic designation) on her business card, signage, or advertisement. In person, for example when introducing herself to a patient, she would need to say something like, "Hi, I am Dr. Jane Doe, and I am your physical therapist." Office staff should be taught how to correctly refer to the PT who has a doctorate degree, so that patients walking in for the first time, and people calling on the phone, are made aware from the initial contact that Jane Doe is a physical therapist who earned a doctorate of physical therapy.
Warning: There are other laws, including the PT Practice Act and the Medical Practice Act, clearly stating that implying you are a physician (when you are not) is a violation of the law regardless of the degree you hold. A PT who chooses to use the title "doctor" in front of his name is responsible for identifying himself as a physical therapist to make sure that no one - patient, office staff, or anyone else – believes that he is a physician.

Ultimately, if a complaint is received by the Board that a PT is representing himself as a physician, the burden of proof will be on the PT. The fact that the complainant believes they were misled could indicate that the PT did not make an adequate effort to identify himself as a physical therapist. 11/06"

As long as the DPT or even PhD identifies him or herself as a physical therapist they can use the term "Dr".

Dr. Jane Doe PT, DPT
Physical Therapist


Just thought you might wanna know!

 

[PT2MD]

Good to know about the change. I think it's a good thing to let patients know we've earned the appropriate degree.

In the context of why we are moving toward the DPT, I would feel more comfortable having folks address me as "doctor" PT2MD if I had direct access on the order of MD's and DO's. I'm not sure we have the will as a profession to accept this title. I remember being appalled at the unfavorable split on this when I was a student. Less than half the class wanted the responsibilities that should come along with a DPT. The majority were content with the status quo.

How many of the current PT membership do you think want to be "doctor"? I think until the answer is over 80-90%, our hopes are dim. It will take alot of old-school PTs retiring coupled with new-school AND willing MPT/DPT's. The second question - how LONG do you think it would take to develop this momentum? The "Vision 2020" theme may be a little optimistic in my book.

I have no problem personally with with being called "doctor". I just would feel more comfortable if our entire profession felt the same way and was willing to fight the battles earning this designation.

 

[LAZYGUY]

All of these degrees including MD, OD , whatever are highly trained, thoroughly educated human body technicians with an academicaly conferred title of "Dr." These are jobs-----------bottom line.

This is the reason why there is so much controversy about the issue. The fact that you have a "doctorate" does not equate you to being a physician. MD/DO continues to be at the top of healthcare team. PTs though highly trained with a doctorate degree will continue to be mid-level providers. Degree changes won't restructure the system. It just means that you had to get more education to do the same job that you could have done with a masters degree.

 

[PT2MD]

This is the reason why there is so much controversy about the issue. The fact that you have a "doctorate" does not equate you to being a physician. MD/DO continues to be at the top of healthcare team. PTs though highly trained with a doctorate degree will continue to be mid-level providers. Degree changes won't restructure the system. It just means that you had to get more education to do the same job that you could have done with a masters degree.

 

[Grue1some]

Well said and to the point.

 

[Buckeye4life]

This is the reason why there is so much controversy about the issue. The fact that you have a "doctorate" does not equate you to being a physician. MD/DO continues to be at the top of healthcare team. PTs though highly trained with a doctorate degree will continue to be mid-level providers. Degree changes won't restructure the system. It just means that you had to get more education to do the same job that you could have done with a masters degree.

Just my two cents. I don't care if people with a DPT get called "Doctor", just as long as me with my MPT get called "Master."

 

[futuredoctorOD]

LAZYGUY,

Obviously you are undergoing (or have underwent) endoctrination at your medical school with allopathic propaganda. You insult every other doctorate level health care providers with your rhetoric. The term "med-level" provider is a term your profession uses to denegrate DPT's, or DNP's, PsyD.'s and so on. Physical therapy doesn't advertise itself as a mid-level provider! I am getting a doctor of optometry degree and becoming an eye doctor. I will have the ability to diagnose and treat visual disorders and eye diseases with oral and topical prescription medications---do all the things you feel only physicians can do. I along with dentists, podiatrists (these are physicians and surgeons of the lower extremities) DPT physical therapists, doctors of audiology (Au.D.'s) are not mid-level providers. If you have any clue about the evolution of health care professions you would know that professionalization (ie. doctoral transendance) is occuring. A doctoring profession is not mid-level. All of these fields have first-contact rights and a physician referral is uneccesary They can all diagnose and treat illness with autonomy. Optometry, Dentistry, Podiatry, etc, have been doctoral professions for over a century whereas Pharmacy---RPh is now Pharm.D, Audiology M.S. is now Au.D, and PT is now becoming D.P.T. None of these professions (outside of podiatry--becase they are physicians) care about being called a "physician" they are proud professions.


PS: another tidbit for you---in many other countries a physician can have a bachelor of medical science, or a masters degree and be a physician!

 

[PT2MD]

LAZYGUY,

Obviously you are undergoing (or have underwent) endoctrination at your medical school with allopathic propaganda. You insult every other doctorate level health care providers with your rhetoric. The term "med-level" provider is a term your profession uses to denegrate DPT's, or DNP's, PsyD.'s and so on. Physical therapy doesn't advertise itself as a mid-level provider! I am getting a doctor of optometry degree and becoming an eye doctor. I will have the ability to diagnose and treat visual disorders and eye diseases with oral and topical prescription medications---do all the things you feel only physicians can do. I along with dentists, podiatrists (these are physicians and surgeons of the lower extremities) DPT physical therapists, doctors of audiology (Au.D.'s) are not mid-level providers. If you have any clue about the evolution of health care professions you would know that professionalization (ie. doctoral transendance) is occuring. A doctoring profession is not mid-level. All of these fields have first-contact rights and a physician referral is uneccesary They can all diagnose and treat illness with autonomy. Optometry, Dentistry, Podiatry, etc, have been doctoral professions for over a century whereas Pharmacy---RPh is now Pharm.D, Audiology M.S. is now Au.D, and PT is now becoming D.P.T. None of these professions (outside of podiatry--becase they are physicians) care about being called a "physician" they are proud professions.


PS: another tidbit for you---in many other countries a physician can have a bachelor of medical science, or a masters degree and be a physician!

Well the problem with that is most of us live in the US...so your point is pretty academic. The fact is I (we) as therapists are mid-level providers right here, right now. If you feel the need to be perceived on the same level as allopathic/oseopathic providers, give it a shot. Don't get nasty with those who are simply stating the current facts regarding our profession. It is what it is right now.

 

[WestcoastMedicine]

The irony is that you don't need a doctorate to be a physician or a surgeon. There are plenty of physicians and surgeons who received their MBBS, which is a bachelor's degree. This allows them to enter a residency program at which time the letters MD are permanently added to their name. They are expected to be called "doctor" while referring to those with doctoral degrees in other fields by their first name.

Several Countries use the Medical bachelor bachelor surgery (MBBS) instead of MD/DO. That is the degree they are granted in their country to become a licensed physician and are able to practice after they do their residency, etc.. in that country. The titel after your name represents the degree granted to you from your medical school and has nothing to do with your residency program. If that were the case DOs enrolling in MD programs would not longer be a DO, which, doesn't happen.

If someone comes to the US to do their residency, it is true that most of them now use MD after their name, however, they are still technically an MBBS. I will be a DO because that is the degree my school grants upon graduation, it is not the title I receive from the US to practice medicine. Therefore even if I go to a country that uses MBBS I still am a DO. Just as those who have an MBBS are still an MBBS in the US, you are not granted a new medical school diploma after doing a residency, they just choose to use MD on their jacket since few patients would know what an MBBS is, just as they always ask us what the heck a DO is. This is a huge controversy as understand it. I would have no problem referring to DPT, OT, PharmD as doctor....but I hope to be on a first name basis with such people who are my colleagues......

 

[futuredoctorOD]

LHUEMT911
"I would have no problem referring to DPT, OT, PharmD as doctor....but I hope to be on a first name basis with such people who are my colleagues......"

I agree with you on this because one the one hand, you are respecting the clinical doctorate they earned and one the other hand having a congenial relationship. One interesting tidbit, I just attend my little brother's med school graduation. He graduated with a DO (Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine) degree. His school graduates the DO's and PharmD's together! They addressed them as Doctors of Pharmacy and Doctors of Osteopathy. Wonderful experience