Doctor of Manual Therapy (DMT Degree)

[SuperKirby]

Has anyone gotten a DMT yet? If so, is it worth it? Pros & Cons?
Are residencies in general worth it? I definitely want my OCS (Orthopaedic Certified Specialist). Can this DMT degree help me prepare for the OCS exam?

for the pre PT's out there, DMT is an optional degree you can earn after completing your DPT.

here is the DMT program that intrigues me:
http://www.olagrimsby.com/index.cfm?pageid=content/cms&content=23

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Hey SuperKirby,

I graduated about 3 years ago. I don't have the DMT, but have taken a few Ola Grimsby classes, and I also know a PT who uses the credential DPT after her name, even though she earned the DMT thru Ola, never the DPT anywhere. Pretty pathetic huh?

 

[TheOx777]

Hey SuperKirby,

I graduated about 3 years ago. I don't have the DMT, but have taken a few Ola Grimsby classes, and I also know a PT who uses the credential DPT after her name, even though she earned the DMT thru Ola, never the DPT anywhere. Pretty pathetic huh?

How is this legal? This is one of the things that is bothersome to me, and it needs to be sorted out. The profession has too much cross-over in other areas of health(athletic training, personal training, even aspects of chiro). I think it is important to be very well versed, but to blatantly misrepresent yourself is just.....BURNS ME UP! I know many clinics want their therapists to be proficient in manual therapy, but to say you are a DPT........... when you are clearly not. Did you call this person out for it Fiveboy?

Also, I did not know that the APTA sponsored the DMT. At least that is how is came across in the advertisement. Doesn't that create a huge conflict of interest for the Vision 2020 for the DPT?

 

[jbizzle]

Hey SuperKirby,

I graduated about 3 years ago. I don't have the DMT, but have taken a few Ola Grimsby classes, and I also know a PT who uses the credential DPT after her name, even though she earned the DMT thru Ola, never the DPT anywhere. Pretty pathetic huh?

Do insurance companies reimburse her for Physical Therapy Services???

 

[Fiveoboy11]

No I didn't call her out on it, I've been considering reporting it to the state board for some time now. She is also an instructor for the Ola Grimsby institute....

Be prepared for this type of thing after you graduate.

 

[TheOx777]

I understand that you have to be a PT and the Ola Grimsby program consists of residencies and continuing education classes for those who want to become orthopedic specialist in manual therapy. So, billing for PT should not be an issue. It's the misrepresenting yourself part that is bothersome.

Fiveboy,

Thanks for the heads up about how life may be once we get out of DPT school. I imagine that it can be awkward coming across certain situations where you are on the spot and have to "check" somebody. BTW, how would you rate the Ola Grimsby program? Have you found that taking the CEU courses there have created value for you and augmented your skill set?

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Thanks Ox. I took two classes, and from that I can say it definitely will improve your manual skills, although at the same time the basis and explanation of how things actually work really isn't that sound. They need to update the evidence backing up what they teach. There is also a lot of bashing other approaches to treatment, and implication that the way you learned to perform manual treatments in school is incorrect.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

I think I will try working with the international academy of orthopedic medicine next. The link is http://www.iaom-us.com/

One could get the COMT through them as well.

There is lots of exciting opportunities with this type of thing, about 110 residency/fellowship programs in orthopedic physical therapy now.

I would love to earn the COMT, OCS, FAAOMPT credentials someday. The great thing is is that it definitely can be done, and the opportunity is right there. And, if one did do this, you would have no problem starting your own clinic and getting referrals, not to mention how much leverage you would probably have for years to come from an insurance reimbursement perspective.

How does everybody else feel about the progression of physical therapy education to require a residency? I would be in favor of it. Residencies would have to be developed better though, and include specialties in 1) Inpatient/acute, HHPT, SNF 2) outpatient peds 3) outpatient neuro.

Maybe this is the direction the profession is heading...

 

[jesspt]

How is this legal? This is one of the things that is bothersome to me, and it needs to be sorted out. The profession has too much cross-over in other areas of health(athletic training, personal training, even aspects of chiro). I think it is important to be very well versed, but to blatantly misrepresent yourself is just.....BURNS ME UP! I know many clinics want their therapists to be proficient in manual therapy, but to say you are a DPT........... when you are clearly not. Did you call this person out for it Fiveboy?

Also, I did not know that the APTA sponsored the DMT. At least that is how is came across in the advertisement. Doesn't that create a huge conflict of interest for the Vision 2020 for the DPT?

The APTA doesn't "sponsor" the DMT. It credentials the Ola Grimsby Institute's Orthopaedic Manual Therapy Fellowship. The institute awards the DMT. In my opinion, they are offering a degree that is not widely recognized outside of the parent institute in an attempt to generate more participants in their series of courses, and thereby more money in their pockets. If a participant graduates from the DMT program, they are elligible to particiapte in the ATPA credentialed Manual Therapy Fellowship program. Not sure why anyone would want to pay for a made-up degree unless they are totally sold on the Ola Grimsby Fellowship program and the only way to matriculate into the Fellowship is to go through the DMT program. The Ola Grimsby web site is unclear about the Fellowship admission requirements.

 

[TheOx777]

The APTA doesn't "sponsor" the DMT. It credentials the Ola Grimsby Institute's Orthopaedic Manual Therapy Fellowship. The institute awards the DMT. In my opinion, they are offering a degree that is not widely recognized outside of the parent institute in an attempt to generate more participants in their series of courses, and thereby more money in their pockets. If a participant graduates from the DMT program, they are elligible to particiapte in the ATPA credentialed Manual Therapy Fellowship program. Not sure why anyone would want to pay for a made-up degree unless they are totally sold on the Ola Grimsby Fellowship program and the only way to matriculate into the Fellowship is to go through the DMT program. The Ola Grimsby web site is unclear about the Fellowship admission requirements.

Thanks for the clarification, jessPT! So, in your opinion, are there ways to become an expert in manual therapy without doing one of these ancillary porgrams?

 

[jesspt]

Thanks for the clarification, jessPT! So, in your opinion, are there ways to become an expert in manual therapy without doing one of these ancillary porgrams?

Of course one can become an expert in manual therapy without going through fellowship training, but if you choose your fellowship wisely, I think that it is probably the fastest and most efficient route.

But, if fellowship training isn't your thing, I think you can get some great exposure to manual therapy through traditional continuing education, and you should already have a very good foundation via your entry-level PT education. But, if you're going to take this route, I think you need to be a discerning consumer and avoid courses which focus a lot on some of the memes within our profession that have not been well supported by anything other than anecdotal evidence.

 

[jesspt]

This degree is an example of the "alphabet soup" problems our profession has. We have three entry level degrees (BSPT, MSPT, DPT), multiple certifications (COMT, CMPT, CSMT, CKTP, etc.), as well as several areas of board certification to which we also attach letters (OCS, PCS, SCS, NCS, etc.). Most therapists don't even know what all of these initials mean, so how can we expect other health care providers or potential patients to understand them? I think this leads to some of the identity crisis we have, meaning that a lot of referral sources, as well as our patients, don't seem to have a very good idea about what physical therapy is and how it can benefit patients.

 

[emericana]

This degree is an example of the "alphabet soup" problems our profession has. We have three entry level degrees (BSPT, MSPT, DPT), multiple certifications (COMT, CMPT, CSMT, CKTP, etc.), as well as several areas of board certification to which we also attach letters (OCS, PCS, SCS, NCS, etc.). Most therapists don't even know what all of these initials mean, so how can we expect other health care providers or potential patients to understand them? I think this leads to some of the identity crisis we have, meaning that a lot of referral sources, as well as our patients, don't seem to have a very good idea about what physical therapy is and how it can benefit patients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine

 

[jesspt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine

Ha!

 

[Danae00]

This degree is an example of the "alphabet soup" problems our profession has. We have three entry level degrees (BSPT, MSPT, DPT), multiple certifications (COMT, CMPT, CSMT, CKTP, etc.), as well as several areas of board certification to which we also attach letters (OCS, PCS, SCS, NCS, etc.). Most therapists don't even know what all of these initials mean, so how can we expect other health care providers or potential patients to understand them? I think this leads to some of the identity crisis we have, meaning that a lot of referral sources, as well as our patients, don't seem to have a very good idea about what physical therapy is and how it can benefit patients.

Personally I'm a big fan of the way our local professional body tells us to sign our names. Basically we do "Jane Doe PT, [put rest of titles here if we choose]". The "rest of titles here" includes our actual degree and any other certifications we want to add. This way it is very clear to the patient and to other professionals that above all else we are PTs first. The actual degree we have and our other designations, continuing education, etc are all just extra "stuff" that really isn't relevant to 99% of people we deal with.

And to be honest, I think most title salads are just an ego boost for the clinician. Not that there is anything wrong with that! We deserve to feel good about ourselves too

 

[jesspt]

Personally I'm a big fan of the way our local professional body tells us to sign our names. Basically we do "Jane Doe PT, [put rest of titles here if we choose]". The "rest of titles here" includes our actual degree and any other certifications we want to add. This way it is very clear to the patient and to other professionals that above all else we are PTs first. The actual degree we have and our other designations, continuing education, etc are all just extra "stuff" that really isn't relevant to 99% of people we deal with.

And to be honest, I think most title salads are just an ego boost for the clinician. Not that there is anything wrong with that! We deserve to feel good about ourselves too

Yes, the American Board of Physical Therapy Specialties instructs board certified specialists to sign their name in the following order: professional designation, highest degree obtained, board specialist credential, other certification. For example: John Doe, PT, MS, OCS, FAAOMPT.

 

[hefe]

The degree looks like one from a diploma mill. They may or may not teach stuff, I haven't looked into it much. But honestly, I think it leads to confusion. I'm also wary of it being "doctoral" anything either. Nursing has enough issues with the alphabet soup string after their name, PT shouldn't have to follow suit.

I'd rather spend my time/money working toward an MDT cert. if I was current out practicing PT.

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

Wow, I never even heard of the DMT until now. (btw to the dimethyltrptamine link haha).

I always thought that I would get some sort of certification for manual therapy, mainly because I want to work with dancers, and having some advanced manual certification would make me more desirable as a PT who would possibly go on tour/travel with dancers/actors/etc who would need those skills. However, I don't know if I would go with the DMT since I don't know much about it/have never heard of it until now. haha.

But, I'm assuming that anything that is accredited by the APTA for CEUs/certification is legit?

 

[jesspt]

But, I'm assuming that anything that is accredited by the APTA for CEUs/certification is legit?

Uh, no.

http://www.ipta.org/events/event_details.asp?id=153237

http://www.myofascialrelease.com/fascia_massage/public/seminars_education.asp

 

[JumpAZ]

Uh, no.

http://www.ipta.org/events/event_details.asp?id=153237

http://www.myofascialrelease.com/fascia_massage/public/seminars_education.asp

I like how the objectives from the course in the first link all have question marks after them???

"Describe the intricate anatomy and function of our complex myofascial system?

Discuss the indications and contraindications for myofascial release?"

And talking about alphabet soup, here is the list after the speakers name "DPT, MS, OCS, LMT, CEAS, CHy, DD" Not sure what those last three are?

 

[SuperKirby]

I guess this degree didn't last long after all!

N/m, I guess it still exists. My fault.

 

[ptisfun2]

Hey SuperKirby,

I graduated about 3 years ago. I don't have the DMT, but have taken a few Ola Grimsby classes, and I also know a PT who uses the credential DPT after her name, even though she earned the DMT thru Ola, never the DPT anywhere. Pretty pathetic huh?

Off topic, but relates to this post...The APTA HOD passed a resolution in June recommending a change in our professional designation (right now PT or P.T. in all states) to DPT regardless of degree earned. This, of course, will require state law changes, so will take a while if at all in some states, but I know some states (i.e., Arizona) are pushing hard to do this right now.
Depending on the state, my guess is the only intervention was if the PT was not using the correct, legal professional designation (PT or P.T.). Using a degree in your signature when you have not earned that degree is unprofessional, but I do not believe it is illegal. Now if the person was not a PT and using PT...that is a whole different situation!

 

[DesertPT]

Off topic, but relates to this post...The APTA HOD passed a resolution in June recommending a change in our professional designation (right now PT or P.T. in all states) to DPT regardless of degree earned. This, of course, will require state law changes, so will take a while if at all in some states, but I know some states (i.e., Arizona) are pushing hard to do this right now.
Depending on the state, my guess is the only intervention was if the PT was not using the correct, legal professional designation (PT or P.T.). Using a degree in your signature when you have not earned that degree is unprofessional, but I do not believe it is illegal. Now if the person was not a PT and using PT...that is a whole different situation!

It definitely gets bogus when personal trainers start putting PT after their name...that's one thing that the move to DPT as the legally protected designation would prevent. I think one of the main things though is that APTA has pushed hard to move PT from a masters profession to a doctoral profession and wants that to be widely recognized. And PTs would have to put PT, DPT after their name, which is a little redundant in my opinion.

 

[DesertPT]

Epic thread resurrection btw, haha.

To me, calling yourself a "Doctor" of manual therapy is a little over the top.

 

[Stiga9]

Bump,
Anyone went through the DMT residency have an insight they'd like to share?

 

[engmedpt]

Off topic, but relates to this post...The APTA HOD passed a resolution in June recommending a change in our professional designation (right now PT or P.T. in all states) to DPT regardless of degree earned.

All Continuing Education is homogeneuous for all practicing therapists right? I have a looooooooooong way to go, but I'm curious to know if CE's focus on what the DPT transition added i.e. imaging, pharmacology, relearning msk stuff and obviously ebp with new things coming up and out.

 

[ptisfun2]

All Continuing Education is homogeneuous for all practicing therapists right? I have a looooooooooong way to go, but I'm curious to know if CE's focus on what the DPT transition added i.e. imaging, pharmacology, relearning msk stuff and obviously ebp with new things coming up and out.

Continuing education could not be more varied if it tried! All CE has been approved by at least one state's professional association (so the MN APTA chapter for example). There are probably some criteria, but I have never been on a CEU committee for the professional association. I have noticed that CE can be very good or very bad, and everywhere in between in terms of quality and use of EBP.

But if you are asking if PTs without a DPT have to take a specific CE in radiology to 'fill in' what they did not get in their entry-level education, then the answer is no. A PT can attend any CE that meets the requirements for the state (for me it must be approved by a state APTA or AMA).

 

[engmedpt]

But if you are asking if PTs without a DPT have to take a specific CE in radiology to 'fill in' what they did not get in their entry-level education, then the answer is no. A PT can attend any CE that meets the requirements for the state (for me it must be approved by a state APTA or AMA).

This makes me feel better about my educational trajectory.

 

[Shugo]

I know this conversation is old but I may be able to ad some useful commentary regarding OGI. I have completed the OGI residency and I am about to test for FAAOMPT credentials. I have worked in a clinic that had many OGI trained therapists. The residency consisted of meeting one time per week with an OGI instructor for a year, completing 2 of their con-ed exercise courses called STEP, one con-ed course on manipulation, and a 5 day course on orthopedic differential diagnoses and clinical reasoning. The residency terminated with a written exam and a practical. Once all of that has been completed you have earned the credentials Certified Orthopedic Manual Therapist (COMT). If during this residency you participate in a research project you earn the credentials Doctor of Manual Therapy (DMT). Absolutely OGI never intended earning the DMT credential to substitute for your DPT credential, any PT who is doing so is not accurately reporting their credentials. Personally, I have never known an OGI trained PT to do this, and I have known many, so it seems like this is an outlier occurrence and not the norm. The residency program does not require that you meet once per week like I did, many people will do the distance education route and meet once per month. The fellowship program has a similar structure to residency but obviously the content of the program changes. So after doing all this what's my opinion of OGI? The program has it's strengths and weaknesses. great instruction on manual techniques, you will certainly build your skills in all joint mobilization, soft tissue work, and manipulation. More than just teaching you a rote technique your instruction will emphasize identification of movement impairments and honing a tissue sense and applying the best technique to achieve your goal, be it oscillation or distraction for tone/pain inhibition, improving tissue hydration, applying a stretch to collagen...etc. What really distinguishes OGI from the rest is the approach they take to exercise, a concept they call Scientific Therapeutic Exercise Progression (STEP). This is a scientific foundation for exercise design, dosage, and progression. With this foundation exercise can be customized to any patient to train a specific tissue with an exact dosage. It is exercise principles rather than a rote protocol so that the PT is equipped to create their own tissue and goal specific exercises. My perceived weakness of OGI is that the exercise dosage can be overly specific and anal with dosage, many of the exercises require pulley equipment which many clinics do not have, OGI in general is overly anal when it comes to anatomy (often asking ridiculously specific questions on anatomy that do not have a great deal of clinical relevance). Keep in mind that I am studying for the fellowship exam RIGHT NOW so maybe I'm a bit frustrated with their anatomy questions . Am I happy I participated in this OGI residency and fellowship? absolutely. The program has developed many skills and knowledge that I will use throughout my career. I believe that achieving clinical mastery is best accomplished by being eclectic in your approach so I plan to use what I have learned from OGI and supplement it with other schools of thought and techniques. In that regard OGI may be a little overly dogmatic, but you are perfectly capable to use OGI's teaching as a platform and not limit yourself to one school of thought. If you are considering doing an OGI residency or fellowship but are not sure if it's for you than I recommend taking a STEP course, it will give you some exposure to what OGI has to offer in weekend course.

In regards to credentials in general. My Dad is an old school PT, been practicing for 45 years. He never did a residency or fellowship because they just weren't very common place as he made his way in his career. Is he a skilled manual therapist and orthopedic PT. He would run laps around me in the clinic. There is no substitute for good ol' experience, having an open and curious mind, and taking lots of con-ed courses that interest you and applying what you have learned into the clinic.

John

 

[Stiga9]

Shugo,

That was very helpful! I am considering the resident part myself as I want the long distance learning (I can't move).

On APTA's website it states OGI is on probationary period and it's been there sometime (over a year or so I think, maybe 2 years), any insight on that? TIA