Do you know anyone who was fired from radiology residency?

[odyssey2]

What were the reasons? Gross unprofessionalism or were there ever competence issues?

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[guytakingboards]

What were the reasons? Gross unprofessionalism or were there ever competence issues?

The few I've seen were usually a combination of both to varying degrees.

Well-liked and professional but incompetent residents tend to get a lot of leeway. Incompetent and unprofessional residents get the hammer pretty quickly.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

The few I've seen were usually a combination of both to varying degrees.

Well-liked and professional but incompetent residents tend to get a lot of leeway. Incompetent and unprofessional residents get the hammer pretty quickly.

OOC how many have you seen? I can’t imagine that it happens often

 

[guytakingboards]

OOC how many have you seen? I can’t imagine that it happens often

None while I was a resident specifically, but two residents junior to me were fired in the two years after I left. I was their chief resident and had constant problems with both of them. Was not at all surprised when I heard they were finally fired.

You are correct: it is not common to fire residents, particularly in radiology. I blame my program as much as those individuals. My program overlooked some in-retrospect red flags in the application process when they took those two.

 

[Cognovi]

I heard of a firing for not getting vaccinated but this is like third hand information.

 

[MadRadLad]

I heard of a firing for not getting vaccinated but this is like third hand information.

That would be an institutional policy not necessarily the residency making that decision.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

I heard of a firing for not getting vaccinated but this is like third hand information.

Person at my prelim got fired for this, but ended up getting picked up for categorical in a state that didn’t care about COVID.

One of the places I interviewed for rads sent an email during the season saying “don’t waste our time by accepting our interview invite if you aren’t vaccinated and don’t plan on being vaccinated because our hospital requires it.

 

[Clean7795]

I've heard of a resident in the distant past getting fired for gross unprofessionalism. Meaning skipping out on work and call shifts frequently.

 

[colbgw02]

I've been around/involved in a number of dismissals for a variety of reasons.

Two were because they just didn't possess the ability to be a radiologist. This is rare, but it occasionally happens that an otherwise intelligent, capable physician just isn't wired to process medical imaging. I was a senior resident for one and the person was permitted to resign because he "missed clinical medicine". I was faculty for the other person, who fought it, but ultimately was kicked out.

Two others were for professionalism. One person lied about passing step 3 and the other made sexual advances toward a radiology attending.

There were four other residents that I believe should have been fired, but weren't, in no small part because the administrative hurdles were considerable. The residency program leadership just didn't have the stomach to fight the system anymore, even though they knew they were training substandard physicians.

In my experience, the PDs and APDs really are on the side of the residents, even when they shouldn't be. I'm not saying that otherwise good residents don't sometimes get railroaded by faculty with an axe to grind, but that's not something I've seen. After having supervised substandard residents and sat in on meetings about them, I take stories about unfairly treated/dismissed residents with a boulder-sized piece of salt.

 

[GadRads]

I'm not saying that otherwise good residents don't sometimes get railroaded by faculty with an axe to grind, but that's not something I've seen. After having supervised substandard residents and sat in on meetings about them, I take stories about unfairly treated/dismissed residents with a boulder-sized piece of salt.

After having to deal with an attending who maligned/harassed me, tried to derail me and turn a whole section against me due to his/her prejudices, I can tell you that this certainly happens. Thankfully multiple other attendings in other sections and my PD knew I was a strong resident. I have seen other capable residents experience the same treatment. It may not be common, but it happens.

 

[colbgw02]

After having to deal with an attending who maligned/harassed me, tried to derail me and turn a whole section against me due to his/her prejudices, I can tell you that this certainly happens. Thankfully multiple other attendings in other sections and my PD knew I was a strong resident. I have seen other capable residents experience the same treatment. It may not be common, but it happens.

I'm not sure why you left out the first sentence of the paragraph you quoted, because it sounds like your experience is in keeping with mine, to wit, you had other people (most importantly your PD) that were on your side. I'm sure the experience was frustrating and anxiety-producing, but it also sounds like the right outcome was reached.

Given the pervasiveness of difficult personalities in academia, unjustified conflicts between solid residents and difficult attendings is a foregone conclusion. I'm just saying that, in my experience, it's not at all an us vs. them mentality among program faculty. To the contrary, residents have strong advocates in these situations, just like you did.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Two were because they just didn't possess the ability to be a radiologist. This is rare, but it occasionally happens that an otherwise intelligent, capable physician just isn't wired to process medical imaging

Is there a way to determine this before residency? I mean we look at MRIs/CTs/X-rays in anatomy but obviously it’s way easier than anything that would be done in residency

 

[guytakingboards]

Is there a way to determine this before residency? I mean we look at MRIs/CTs/X-rays in anatomy but obviously it’s way easier than anything that would be done in residency

Most likely no. Conceptually it's similar to surgical skill. What ever experiences you have in medical school will not adequately simulate the job enough to make that kind of determination that early on.

E.g. plenty of people who have awful hand skills in medical school get into surgical residencies and get trained up to adequate or better technical skill. Only a small number of surgical trainees wash out because they just couldn't handle it technically.

Same thing with radiology. Residency will teach medical imaging interpretation and clinical correlation. Only a handful of people wash out because they can't figure it out.

 

[GadRads]

I'm not sure why you left out the first sentence of the paragraph you quoted, because it sounds like your experience is in keeping with mine, to wit, you had other people (most importantly your PD) that were on your side. I'm sure the experience was frustrating and anxiety-producing, but it also sounds like the right outcome was reached.

Given the pervasiveness of difficult personalities in academia, unjustified conflicts between solid residents and difficult attendings is a foregone conclusion. I'm just saying that, in my experience, it's not at all an us vs. them mentality among program faculty. To the contrary, residents have strong advocates in these situations, just like you did.

There’s a case currently in court re a resident whose fortunes changed after a new PD took over. When I googled the PD, I discovered he was ultimately forced to resign and is no longer at the institution, but he had already inflicted his damage. The PD had a personal vendetta against this resident, and given his influence and power in the institution, he shamelessly orchestrated the situation to get this resident fired. In a blink, a resident with strong evals and performance in the 3 years prior, suddenly became a “terrible” resident, despite no changes in this resident’s personal life or work ethic. In fact, he/she began to work harder but continued to receive even worse treatment. In my case, the attendings on my side had more influence and power, and subsequent performance ultimately vindicated me.

I do agree that these events are uncommon, however it’s worth taking a look at every situation on a case-by-case basis and with an open mind. After my experience (I was lucky to have strong people on my side) and that of others who were not so lucky, my view on this has changed and I no longer assume the resident in question is necessarily bad or incompetent. I was a strong resident, professional and hardworking, and still had some issues consequent to an attending’s whims.

 

[2brads]

I know one guy from residency who I have no idea how he passed his boards, hasn't had his license revoked and/or hasn't been arrested. He was so far from the standard deviation (from both normal human behavior and medical knowledge) I thought he'd never make it. I sometimes google his name to make sure he isn't in my area and to see what new lawsuits he is involved with (3 so far).

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Didn't that anti-Semitic radiology resident from Monte get fired?

Funny thing is that he is Jewish and has a Rabbi father.

 

[Cognovi]

There are a few cases over the years relating to sex/solictation offenses involving radiology residents if you search for arrests.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

There are a few cases over the years relating to sex/solictation offenses involving radiology residents if you search for arrests.

How do residents afford that!