DO vs. Caribbean

[vanillasky123]

My friend has the stats to go to a DO school but she would rather go Caribbean to avoid the wait and uncertainty. Her argument is that first 2 years are mostly self study and all about Step so it doesn't matter where she does them. Also, some of the DO schools she's considering share rotation sites with Caribbean schools so she thinks she'll get the same clinical education anyways. Is she right?

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[DrStephenStrange]

Well, tell your friend she's mostly right except she forgot about the part where the residency match outcome at the end is 99% match rate as a DO vs 50-60% match rate as an IMG. And even if she match, there is still probably a 90+% chance she'll end up in a primary care specialty whether she likes it or not where as a DO you at least have options with a 50% chance of ending up in one of the DO friendly specialties like EM, Neurology, anesthesia, PM&R, pathology, and even mildly competitive specialties like Psych, General surgery, Diagnostic Radiology and OBGYN. Also, other numbers she should care about is DO schools attrition rate nationally is ~5% whereas Carib schools attrition rates are ~30% or more depending on the school.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Just look at the charting outcomes in 2020 and it will be clear as night and day that DO is the hands down better option. Even in primary care there are significantly more programs that never or seldom consider IMG’s then there are those who will do that for DO’s..this is straight from the program director’s survey. A DO will open many more doors compared to carribean MD, and the gap is only widening, places like CC IM, OHSU IM, Case western IM, wake forest and other solid mid tier IM programs routinely take DO’s but will never touch a carribean grad, and this is a rule of thumb for most specialties.. I believe that rapid DO/MD school expansion will kill the carribean schools, residency spots aren’t increasing at a similar pace and the carribean just won’t be a viable option in 4-5 years time. There are soo many MD/DO plus thier branch campuses stateside that not getting into atleast one is going to look like a HUGE red flag for PD’s.

 

[the argus]

residency spots aren’t increasing at a similar pace and the carribean just won’t be a viable option in 4-5 years time. There are soo many MD/DO plus thier branch campuses stateside that not getting into atleast one is going to look like a HUGE red flag for PD’s.

This is just a factually incorrect statement. The ACGME releases this data on a yearly basis.

ACGME Data Resource Book

www.acgme.org

Go to page 82 in the most recent version. The actual data clearly shows the number of IMGs matching into first year residency positions has overall increased over the past 10 years. In fact, 2019 saw the highest number of IMGs starting residency ever.

So reality is actually the complete opposite of what you wrote, residency spots are increasing at a greater pace than AMG school expansion.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

This is just a factually incorrect statement that shows your ignorance about this topic. The ACGME releases this data on a yearly basis.

ACGME Data Resource Book

www.acgme.org

Go to page 82 in the most recent version. The actual data clearly shows the number of IMGs matching into first year residency positions has overall increased over the past 10 years. In fact, 2019 saw the highest number of IMGs starting residency ever.

So reality is actually the complete opposite of what you wrote, residency spots are increasing at a greater pace than AMG school expansion.

A lot of that increase has to do with aoa programs transitioning to acgme by 2020, these programs make the majority of the new programs the real # of new programs is much much lower and that level of new gme won’t be around next year, but the massive school expansion will, my school alone will expand from 100 too 200 first year class size by 2022, this is happening almost everywhere and new DO schools are popping up everywhere. The carribean is an extremely bad idea. Those aoa programs aren’t exactly very carribean friendly either.

 

[the argus]

A lot of that increase has to do with aoa programs transitioning to acgme by 2020, these programs make the majority of the new programs the real # of new programs is much much lower and that level of new gme won’t be around next year, but the massive school expansion will, my school alone will expand from 100 too 200 first year class size by 2022, this is happening almost everywhere and new DO schools are popping up everywhere. The carribean is an extremely bad idea. Those aoa programs aren’t exactly very carribean friendly either.

No. All of the previous AOA positions that were added already came with a DO graduate attached to it (i.e. the positions were added but so were all the DO grads that previously filled them).

There was not a huge number of previously unfilled AOA positions that were added to the ACGME and then snatched up by IMGs.

The facts are, GME growth has outpaced AMG growth over the past years, which is why more IMGs have matched in recent years than ever before. Maybe this will change with increased AMG enrollment, or maybe not. People have been making the same argument you are making for over 10 years and it has not yet materialized. Maybe it eventually will, but certainly not fast enough to significantly alter IMG match rates over the next 5 years.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

No. All of the previous AOA positions that were added already came with a DO graduate attached to it (i.e. the positions were added but so were all the DO grads that previously filled them).

There was not a huge number of previously unfilled AOA positions that were added to the ACGME and then snatched up by IMGs.

The facts are, GME growth has outpaced AMG growth over the past years, which is why more IMGs have matched in recent years than ever before. Maybe this will change with increased AMG enrollment, or maybe not. People have been making the same argument you are making for over 10 years and it has not yet materialized. Maybe it eventually will, but certainly not fast enough to significantly alter IMG match rates over the next 5 years.

Op do you want to risk hundreds of thousands of dollars on a “maybe”?

 

[Ho0v-man]

There’s nothing wrong with doctors from DO schools or the Caribbean. But talking to IMG residents, they faced a lot more bias than DOs. I really thought it was overblown on SDN/reddit and will be the first to admit that the quality of osteopathic clinical ed actually has a lot of overlap with that of Caribbean and DOs aren’t always ahead in this regard. But they really do get shut out of more programs than us DOs. If you see a program with AMGs, DOs, and Caribbean IMGs, the latter almost always had to work harder for the same result.

Tell your friend to google million dollar mistake.

 

[the argus]

Op do you want to risk hundreds of thousands of dollars on a “maybe”?

I'm not disagreeing with your overall message. People should try to get into a DO school before considering the Caribbean route, for a number of different reasons. But you should be able to make your point with real facts and without the fear-mongering.

The Caribbean schools remain a viable path to becoming a fully-licensed board-certified physician for thousands of people every year. That is not going to change much over the next 4-5 years. Over 7400 IMGs started residency in 2019 (2020 data not available yet). No amount of AMG school expansion is going to significantly alter that number in the immediate future. This is especially true because, despite the general SDN groupthink, GME numbers continue to increase significantly on a yearly basis (DO merger or not).

Does purely paying tuition and starting at a Caribbean school guarantee you'll actually become a practicing physician in the US, absolutely not. But it's the failure of the US medical education community that even allows the existence of the Caribbean medical schools. There are literally 1000s of US citizens that are willing, able, and most importantly NEEDED by the US medical system, to become competent physicians. The utter failure of the US undergraduate medical education system to train these individuals is the real issue here.

 

[shouldigomd]

US MD vs DO is no question the better option and before you entertain the idea of going carib you should exhaust all reasonable options in the US.

It also depends on your goals. The "bias and discrimination" largely exists in the malignant US healthcare training system. Once you enter the job force nobody cares about where you went unless perhaps you are trying to land at a high tier academia position. The real world cares about your skill, work ethic and experience.

If you want to do a less competitive specialty than it doesn't matter as much. The more you have to deal with competition and admissions .... the more bias you face.

 

[Thebestofus]

Match rates are one thing and living with a DO behind your name forever is something else.

Me... I'd fight for the MD and go carribean.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Match rates are one thing and living with a DO behind your name forever is something else.

Me... I'd fight for the MD and go carribean.

Not matching and having hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt is also forever..

 

[Thebestofus]

Not matching and having hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt is also forever..

Hence the "fight" part of my statement.

Yea, I'd risk it all and go for the MD. Go big or go home.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Match rates are one thing and living with a DO behind your name forever is something else.

Me... I'd fight for the MD and go carribean.

And no one cares about the 2 letters behind your name passed residency.

 

[Thebestofus]

And no one cares about the 2 letters behind your name passed residency.

Ha! Keep living the lie.

I regularly get patients who left other practices and when I ask why I very very often get "because he's not an MD and I wanted a real doctor".

Is it fair or accurate? No. But it's reality. People care and patients especially care.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Ha! Keep living the lie.

I regularly get patients who left other practices and when I ask why I very very often get "because he's not an MD and I wanted a real doctor".

Is it fair or accurate? No. But it's reality. People care and patients especially care.

Like literally no one believes this dude, get your head out of your *ss, maybe if they were consistently seeing a NP or PA at that practice I get it but a board certified DO(in any specialty) no way, most patients do even know the difference between an NP and a MD or DO much less the difference between a DO and a MD lol, if an MD from a Caribbean LOL is worth it for you, good luck to you.. you will be in a world of hurt when DO's with much lesser apps then you will be sitting with much more interviews than you from far better places... I have actually talked to Ross and SGU grads and they always mention how the DO/MD had much more and better interviews than they did.

 

[Thebestofus]

Like literally no one believes this dude, get your head out of your *ss, maybe if they were consistently seeing a NP or PA at that practice I get it but a board certified DO(in any specialty) no way, most patients do even know the difference between an NP and a MD or DO much less the difference between a DO and a MD lol, if an MD from a Caribbean LOL is worth it for you, good luck to you.. you will be in a world of hurt when DO's with much lesser apps then you will be sitting with much more interviews than you from far better places... I have actually talked to Ross and SGU grads and they always mention how the DO/MD had much more and better interviews than they did.

I'm in private practice in a single specialty group, I know what I'm seeing.

Now if you're cool with it and you're the type of person who truly doesn't care about people recognizing your contributions then do for the DO. But I'm telling you full disclosure, patients have left other practices to come to me because they didn't want the "doc in the box" or they wanted the "real doctor" or someone who went to "actual med school" and I'm actually located in DC, an area with supposedly higher intellectuality. Your business card is not going to say "DR JOHN SMITH DO Harvard Graduate"

It's going to say either DO or MD at the end of your name and that's it.

People have a misconception that going to a do school is like going to a hocus pocus school where you learn how to massage someone and eventually you can become a chiropractor! They also have the misconception that you weren't smart enough to get into an MD school and that's why you went DO. And you will fight against that misconception the rest of your life. If you're cool with that then go DO .

Me, it was worth the risk of the Caribbean to become a "real doctor" in the eyes of my patients whatever that is.

 

[Emmet2301]

I'm in private practice in a single specialty group, I know what I'm seeing.

Now if you're cool with it and you're the type of person who truly doesn't care about people recognizing your contributions then do for the DO. But I'm telling you full disclosure, patients have left other practices to come to me because they didn't want the "doc in the box" or they wanted the "real doctor" or someone who went to "actual med school" and I'm actually located in DC, an area with supposedly higher intellectuality. Your business card is not going to say "DR JOHN SMITH DO Harvard Graduate"

It's going to say either DO or MD at the end of your name and that's it.

People have a misconception that going to a do school is like going to a hocus pocus school where you learn how to massage someone and eventually you can become a chiropractor! They also have the misconception that you weren't smart enough to get into an MD school and that's why you went DO. And you will fight against that misconception the rest of your life. If you're cool with that then go DO .

Me, it was worth the risk of the Caribbean to become a "real doctor" in the eyes of my patients whatever that is.

I'm kinda surprised those patients are ok with someone who studied outside the US vs someone who studied in the US hmm. But then they prolly think SGU or Ross is some random school somewhere in the US.

 

[Damson]

People have a difference in values; some highly value the MD credential due to it being internationally recognized. Some value matching in the US and getting to work in the US more than the letters.

That said, since carib MD and matching in the US is not mutually exclusive, they're willing to take the punt anyway.

Going DO is a lot safer, but due to such difference in values it's a fallacy to say "I made the right call, they made the wrong call".

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I'm in private practice in a single specialty group, I know what I'm seeing.

Now if you're cool with it and you're the type of person who truly doesn't care about people recognizing your contributions then do for the DO. But I'm telling you full disclosure, patients have left other practices to come to me because they didn't want the "doc in the box" or they wanted the "real doctor" or someone who went to "actual med school" and I'm actually located in DC, an area with supposedly higher intellectuality. Your business card is not going to say "DR JOHN SMITH DO Harvard Graduate"

It's going to say either DO or MD at the end of your name and that's it.

People have a misconception that going to a do school is like going to a hocus pocus school where you learn how to massage someone and eventually you can become a chiropractor! They also have the misconception that you weren't smart enough to get into an MD school and that's why you went DO. And you will fight against that misconception the rest of your life. If you're cool with that then go DO .

Me, it was worth the risk of the Caribbean to become a "real doctor" in the eyes of my patients whatever that

I'm in private practice in a single specialty group, I know what I'm seeing.

Now if you're cool with it and you're the type of person who truly doesn't care about people recognizing your contributions then do for the DO. But I'm telling you full disclosure, patients have left other practices to come to me because they didn't want the "doc in the box" or they wanted the "real doctor" or someone who went to "actual med school" and I'm actually located in DC, an area with supposedly higher intellectuality. Your business card is not going to say "DR JOHN SMITH DO Harvard Graduate"

It's going to say either DO or MD at the end of your name and that's it.

People have a misconception that going to a do school is like going to a hocus pocus school where you learn how to massage someone and eventually you can become a chiropractor! They also have the misconception that you weren't smart enough to get into an MD school and that's why you went DO. And you will fight against that misconception the rest of your life. If you're cool with that then go DO .

Me, it was worth the risk of the Caribbean to become a "real doctor" in the eyes of my patients whatever that is.

Absolutely no one believes that DO=chiropractor atleast ,not in this century. Will a few patients leave you because your not a MD simply because your not an MD despite the fact you can prescribe them the same exact meds and do the same exact surgeries? Sure lol? But that would be 1% of 1% of all patients you would potentially come across. This argument is the one that buck Parker made a couple of years ago on his YouTube channel and it was debunked and he sounded like an absolute fool. If you have anecdotal evidence, so do I of patients leaving MD’s and preferring to see DO’s so the opposite absolutely does happen as well, in the end of the day DO’s in private practice aren’t going hungry and there’s no dearth of patients, and trust me once your patients find out you went to some no name school in the carribean(Ross or sgu LOL) there will absolutely be bias against you, this is if you match in a system that’s incredibly more biased against carribean grads than DO’s.. no one thinks occasionally explaining your degree is worth gambling hundreds of thousands of dollars lol. Except those who couldn’t get in to significantly more competitive DO programs obviously, using this argument to justify their decision to go study medicine in a third world country... your argument is nothing more than a childish talking point some of my friends who went the carribean route make when people ask why in the hell would you go to the carribean, they always say it’s cause I wanted the “MD” or wanted to be adventurous and do Med school on an island lol...

 

[Thebestofus]

Absolutely no one believes that DO=chiropractor atleast ,not in this century. Will a few patients leave you because your not a MD simply because your not an MD despite the fact you can prescribe them the same exact meds and do the same exact surgeries? Sure lol? But that would be 1% of 1% of all patients you would potentially come across. This argument is the one that buck Parker made a couple of years ago on his YouTube channel and it was debunked and he sounded like an absolute fool. If you have anecdotal evidence, so do I of patients leaving MD’s and preferring to see DO’s so the opposite absolutely does happen as well, in the end of the day DO’s in private practice aren’t going hungry and there’s no dearth of patients, and trust me once your patients find out you went to some no name school in the carribean(Ross or sgu LOL) there will absolutely be bias against you, this is if you match in a system that’s incredibly more biased against carribean grads than DO’s.. no one thinks occasionally explaining your degree is worth gambling hundreds of thousands of dollars lol. Except those who couldn’t get in to significantly more competitive DO programs obviously, using this argument to justify their decision to go study medicine in a third world country... your argument is nothing more than a childish talking point some of my friends who went the carribean route make when people ask why in the hell would you go to the carribean, they always say it’s cause I wanted the “MD” or wanted to be adventurous and do Med school on an island lol...

Okay. "I shall deny reality as long as possible" seems to be your argument.

Refuse to accept the fact ask you want, the truth is that being a DO means you are more open to biases. Bring an MD carib grad is easier to hide because all that shows is your MD. And don't kid yourself, pts are not leaving MDs because they "prefer DO" LMAO.

Dream on man. Anyways I'm out since you're not saying anything of merit.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Okay. "I shall deny reality as long as possible" seems to be your argument.

Refuse to accept the fact ask you want, the truth is that being a DO means you are more open to biases. Bring an MD carib grad is easier to hide because all that shows is your MD. And don't kid yourself, pts are not leaving MDs because they "prefer DO" LMAO.

Dream on man. Anyways I'm out since you're not saying anything of merit.

I have also worked in private practice with DOs when I was in undergrad, and never did I ever hear a patient resfusing to see them because they were DOs. In fact, their schedules were always full every single day. You really think they care about a few patients not wanting to see them because of the 2 letters behind their names. I have also heard patients say they prefer seeing DOs than MDs because in their mind DOs treat patients more holistically (not that I believe that's true, but it also happens).

You're preaching people to go Caribbean instead of DO and they will end up in a primary care specialty (IM, FM, Peds) 80 to 90% of the time. What about people that want general surgery, or psych, or PM&R, or even something competitive like Ortho, or even something less competitive like EM, you really don't think that going DO is the better option. Go look at the charting outcome for these specialties, DOs have the advantage in all them. Attrition rate in any given Caribbean med school will range anywhere from 25% to 50%, and then if they make it through 4th year after all that, they only have about 60% chance of matching. And you really think these are good odds for anyone. For any given DO school, the Attrition rate is anywhere 4% to 10%, and then they have 99% chance of matching with many specialties open to them.
HOW ARE WE STILL ARGUING THIS IN 2020?

 

[Thebestofus]

I have also worked in private practice with DOs when I was in undergrad, and never did I ever hear a patient resfusing to see them because they were DOs. In fact, their schedules were always full every single day. You really think they care about a few patients not wanting to see them because of the 2 letters behind their names. I have also heard patients say they prefer seeing DOs than MDs because in their mind DOs treat patients more holistically (not that I believe that's true, but it also happens).

You're preaching people to go Caribbean instead of DO and they will end up in a primary care specialty (IM, FM, Peds) 80 to 90% of the time. What about people that want general surgery, or psych, or PM&R, or even something competitive like Ortho, or even something less competitive like EM, you really don't think that going DO is the better option. Go look at the charting outcome for these specialties, DOs have the advantage in all them. Attrition rate in any given Caribbean med school will range anywhere from 25% to 50%, and then if they make it through 4th year after all that, they only have about 60% chance of matching. And you really think these are good odds for anyone. For any given DO school, the Attrition rate is anywhere 4% to 10%, and then they have 99% chance of matching with many specialties open to them.
HOW ARE WE STILL ARGUING THIS IN 2020?

No patient refuses to see a DO. They quietly go somewhere else. That's how that works. Can't believe I'm having to teach this.


The hilarious thing is you continue to talk about how risky it is to go to a carib med school. YES IT IS.we have covered this a thousand times already.

We're discussing how many physicians myself included feel the need to take that risk to avoid the stigma of being a DO. It may not be worth it to you but it is definitely worth it for some people.

Go ahead, come back at me with how bad the attrition rate is despite it being completely irrelevant to the conversation.

 

[Osminog]

Okay. "I shall deny reality as long as possible" seems to be your argument.

Refuse to accept the fact ask you want, the truth is that being a DO means you are more open to biases. Bring an MD carib grad is easier to hide because all that shows is your MD. And don't kid yourself, pts are not leaving MDs because they "prefer DO" LMAO.

Dream on man. Anyways I'm out since you're not saying anything of merit.

Some of the dimwits on SDN might think that you're a troll who doesn't know what he's talking about and is giving lousy advice to desperate strangers online, but it's clear to me that you're just trying to spread the truth.

Most patients carefully research the academic backgrounds of their doctors and go out of their way to avoid DOs. That's why most DOs are unable to attract patients to their practices; all of their patients run away as soon as elite graduates of the American University of the Caribbean move into town. Indeed, as you're probably aware, most DOs have to hustle on the streets to make a living, sometimes even holding up cardboard signs that read "non-MD doc looking for work." I feel sort of sorry for the countless unemployed DOs out there—but at the end of the day, it was their fault for choosing DO school. Nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to choose LECOM or NYITCOM over the top-ranked medical institution in the entire island of Antigua.

Personally, I'd much rather move to a third-world island and invest hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin flip's chance of becoming a practicing physician than have "DO" written on my name badge. There is no worse fate than having "DO" permanently etched into one's professional identity. I'm sure you agree that it's far better to be a Saba MD who works as a full-time Uber driver than to bear the immense shame of practicing medicine as an osteopathic physician.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

No patient refuses to see a DO. They quietly go somewhere else. That's how that works. Can't believe I'm having to teach this.


The hilarious thing is you continue to talk about how risky it is to go to a carib med school. YES IT IS.we have covered this a thousand times already, keep up with the conversation kiddo.

We're discussing how many physicians myself included feel the need to take that risk to avoid the stigma of being a DO. It may not be worth it to you but it is definitely worth it for some people.

Go ahead, come back at me with how bad the attrition rate is despite it being completely irrelevant to the conversation.

This is such a ******* argument. Your giving up the chance to potentially make more money and actually specialize in the field you want rather than just be stuck doing primary care cause let’s be honest the vast majority of carribean grads can’t even match into anesthesia or em.. all because of 2 letters hahaha

 

[Thebestofus]

Some of the dimwits on SDN might think that you're a troll who doesn't know what he's talking about and is giving lousy advice to desperate strangers online, but it's clear to me that you're just trying to spread the truth.

Most patients carefully research the academic backgrounds of their doctors and go out of their way to avoid DOs. That's why most DOs are unable to attract patients to their practices; all of their patients run away as soon as elite graduates of the American University of the Caribbean move into town. Indeed, as you're probably aware, most DOs have to hustle on the streets to make a living, sometimes even holding up cardboard signs that read "non-MD doc looking for work." I feel sort of sorry for the countless unemployed DOs out there—but at the end of the day, it was their fault for choosing DO school. Nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to choose LECOM or NYITCOM over the top-ranked medical institution in the entire island of Antigua.

Personally, I'd much rather move to a third-world island and invest hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin flip's chance of becoming a practicing physician than have "DO" written on my name badge. There is no worse fate than having "DO" permanently etched into one's professional identity. I'm sure you agree that it's far better to be a Saba MD who works as a full-time Uber driver than to bear the immense shame of practicing medicine as an osteopathic physician.

The amount of self defense present here speaks volumes. Peace out.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

The amount of self defense present here speaks volumes. Peace out.

That's the kind of response I expect from someone that has nothing else to say lol. Where is your counter argument to this last one?

 

[Thebestofus]

That's the kind of response I expect from someone that has nothing else to say lol. Where is your counter argument to this last one?

My counter argument is that I went for an MD and left the DO behind and have no regrets. My actions speak for themselves and unlike you, I don't feel defensive or have a need to lash out. But, maybe if I went DO I probably would act just like you.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

My counter argument is that I went for an MD and left the DO behind and have no regrets. My actions speak for themselves and unlike you, I don't feel defensive or have a need to lash out. But, maybe if I went DO I probably would act just like you.

Congrats now go talk about how great your “MD” degree from Ross or SGU or Saba was lol... your nothing but a troll, I highly doubt you even spent one day in medical school, because if you did you would truly know how hard life is for carribean grads and the real stain they carry in American medical system, if you did ACTUALLY graduate from a carribean medical school and mange to match you wouldn’t talk about DO bias because you would KNOW first hand just how bad the carribean bias is, also just so you know, American MD =/= Carribean MD to patients or program directors, and no, it won’t just be MD vs DO, it quite literally takes a patient 0.2 seconds on google to look up your credentials and those patients who are looking for docs who went to prestigious medical schools(like you claim for DO’s) will most definetly leave your practice much less even step foot in your practice hahah.. the biggest flaw in your argument is the “fact”that you say patients who were established with a DO for years just decided to leave that practice and come to you because your carribean degree somehow makes you a “real” doctor but if that was the case why did they even spend one visit with a DO huh? Isn’t that weird lol? Much weirder is that such patients didn’t even bother to check your credentials yet they doubted a DO because of two letters haha(after already being seen by them for months or years)? I call major BS but your a troll soo...

 

[DrStephenStrange]

My counter argument is that I went for an MD and left the DO behind and have no regrets. My actions speak for themselves and unlike you, I don't feel defensive or have a need to lash out. But, maybe if I went DO I probably would act just like you.

Lash out? Where? You're projecting now. Anyway, good luck and congrats on your prestigious MD. I guess I'll just get my DO and go work at a fast food restaurant once all my patients have deserted me and I end up jobless, homeless and bankrupt.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Lash out? Where? You're projecting now. Anyway, good luck and congrats on your prestigious MD. I guess I'll just get my DO and go work at a fast food restaurant once all my patients have deserted me and I end up jobless, homeless and bankrupt.

Dudes out here talking about DO stigma.. it’s not the 1920’s anymore, patients can quite literally look up that your MD is from a no name third world country on an island( especially the patients that care about the DO thing are likely to look this up)...and due to your carribean school your residency is likely to be from just as much of an un-prestigious place.(obviously nothing wrong with that at all) but the entire basis of his argument is flawed haha.

 

[Thebestofus]

Congrats now go talk about how great your “MD” degree from Ross or SGU or Saba was lol... your nothing but a troll, I highly doubt you even spent one day in medical school, because if you did you would truly know how hard life is for carribean grads and the real stain they carry in American medical system, if you did ACTUALLY graduate from a carribean medical school and mange to match you wouldn’t talk about DO bias because you would KNOW first hand just how bad the carribean bias is, also just so you know, American MD =/= Carribean MD to patients or program directors, and no, it won’t just be MD vs DO, it quite literally takes a patient 0.2 seconds on google to look up your credentials and those patients who are looking for docs who went to prestigious medical schools(like you claim for DO’s) will most definetly leave your practice much less even step foot in your practice hahah.. the biggest flaw in your argument is the “fact”that you say patients who were established with a DO for years just decided to leave that practice and come to you because your carribean degree somehow makes you a “real” doctor but if that was the case why did they even spend one visit with a DO huh? Isn’t that weird lol? Much weirder is that such patients didn’t even bother to check your credentials yet they doubted a DO because of two letters haha(after already being seen by them for months or years)? I call major BS but your a troll soo...

I'm in GI. I'm telling you first hand, there's a stigma that comes with a DO. No one is trolling you. This is a forum where exchange of facts is meant to occur. There is absolutely a DO stigma.

Edit: btw, I have news for you. No one gives a **** what school you went to after you finish training but your MD or DO is at the forefront.

 

[Thebestofus]

Lash out? Where? You're projecting now. Anyway, good luck and congrats on your prestigious MD. I guess I'll just get my DO and go work at a fast food restaurant once all my patients have deserted me and I end up jobless, homeless and bankrupt.

Nice straw man argument.

I never said a DO wasn't going to be busy or fulfilled. I'm also personally not claiming that I agree with the stigma or perception. You're attacking the messenger. I have absolutely witnessed discrimination by patients against DOs. If you're a DO you're not likely to have a pt complain to you about your degree. Anyways, for the record I personally think there's no difference between DO AND MD when it comes to quality of care or the caliber of the individual. But patients.... Yea they haven't quite got the memo and I didn't feel like dealing with it so I took the risk of carib and got the MD and even knowing what I know now and how hard it was to get to where I am... I'd still go carribean over DO.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Nice straw man argument.

I never said a DO wasn't going to be busy or fulfilled. I'm also personally not claiming that I agree with the stigma or perception. You're attacking the messenger. I have absolutely witnessed discrimination by patients against DOs. If you're a DO you're not likely to have a pt complain to you about your degree. Anyways, for the record I personally think there's no difference between DO AND MD when it comes to quality of care or the caliber of the individual. But patients.... Yea they haven't quite got the memo and I didn't feel like dealing with it so I took the risk of carib and got the MD and even knowing what I know now and how hard it was to get to where I am... I'd still go carribean over DO.

Your argument is still false, I am sure patients have declined coming to you because they looked up you went XYZ school in the carribean in a few seconds on google, you are either denying it or just oblivious to it, the same patients that are misinformed about the DO thing are most definitely also looking up where their MD doctor went to school, don’t kid yourself, if they won’t see a DO they certainly won’t see a carribean MD either, at the end of the day it’s a moot point because such patients are in the minority of patients, the very vast majority of patients truly don’t care, and the vast majority of DO’s don’t really care that some patient snubbed them lol, as you admittedly said yourself that there isn’t a shortage a patients. Your argument about choosing a much harder medical school experience of carribean MD just because of two letters at the end of the day is nothing more than a childish sdn talk and that leads me to believe that your trolling...

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I'm in GI. I'm telling you first hand, there's a stigma that comes with a DO. No one is trolling you. This is a forum where exchange of facts is meant to occur. There is absolutely a DO stigma.

Edit: btw, I have news for you. No one gives a **** what school you went to after you finish training but your MD or DO is at the forefront.

No one cares about where you went to school huh...? I am sure program directors do and that’s the most important thing.... no one cares about the school expect if you went to a DO school lololol what an idiotic argument... because an MD from XYZ school in the carribean is soo prestigious... this dude probably hides the fact he went to carribean from his patients, hides his medical school degree or prbly burned it...

Also don’t kid yourself... the second anyone sees you went to the carribean they know you couldn’t cut it and make it to an American school(MD or DO) that stigma in my eyes is far far far far worse then going to DO school or the DO degree, carribean md= likely a low undergrad gpa, bad choices in undergrad, low or even no mcat score and mediocre academic performance overall.. oh and btw patients know this too, so do your other AMERICAN MD and DO colleagues... a carribean grad has no right to talk about stigma against DO lol..

 

[gyngyn]

This thread has disintegrated to the point of no return.