DO student matching into allopathic NS residency

[HarveyCushing]

I will be attending KCUMB this fall for med-school. I know it is still early to worry about residency, but I have pretty much narrowed down my interest to neurosurgery after all of my shadowing and clinical experience. This is really what I want to do and I am willing to give whatever I have to. My question is this, I know that the odds of matching into an MD residency as a DO is a slight bit of an uphill battle even if the AMA says that they don't discriminate between MD/DO. However I know that it is rare for DOs to match into MD residencies. I am not sure if that is because there are fewer interested in NS, or if they just weren't as well qualified. I plan on getting involved with local ns when I start medical school, maybe shadow them 1-2 times a month just to learn more about the field. I have also considered continuing research during medical school to some extent. What else is needed? I know I will have to ace step 1, but is there still hope if that happens? If a PD has a DO applicant with a 235-240 score and a MD applicant with a similar score, will the DO applicant get the same look and consideration? Or is my cause hopeless and should I rely on getting into a DO residency?

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[mpp]

I don't think they would be given the same consideration. Just as if one student is from Harvard or Hopkins medical school and the other is from Chicago Med or SUNY-Downstate. It just doesn't carry the same weight. Your opportunities to get letters from known folks in the field might also be more difficult.

There was one DO that matched this year. Most years there are none. It's possible but more difficult. What is needed is strong motivation that shows in your academics, clinicals, and research. You stole my picture by the way...

 

[HarveyCushing]

You stole my picture by the way...

The picture has to go with the name, wouldn't you say.

 

[smgilles]

I don't think they would be given the same consideration. Just as if one student is from Harvard or Hopkins medical school and the other is from Chicago Med or SUNY-Downstate. It just doesn't carry the same weight. Your opportunities to get letters from known folks in the field might also be more difficult.

There was one DO that matched this year. Most years there are none. It's possible but more difficult. What is needed is strong motivation that shows in your academics, clinicals, and research. You stole my picture by the way...

It appears there were 3 DO's that matched this year (oklahoma state, LECOM, and CCOM).

 

[HarveyCushing]

It appears there were 3 DO's that matched this year (oklahoma state, LECOM, and CCOM).

Do you happen to know what programs they matched into?

 

[-Goose-]

http://uncleharvey.com/index.php/wiki/2007_Match_List_for_Neurological_Surgery/

 

[IlliniDO]

SUNY - Syracuse
University of Kansas
I don't know where the third matched.


All three of these guys were good candidates. I met them all on the interview circuit. I applied (DO as well) but did not match, however I am going to a strong osteopathic neurosx program in Michigan. If you are interested you should check out both options.

 

[eldo]

what are the strong NS osteopathic programs? and how do they differ from the allopathic NS programs?

 

[ArcherM2]

It appears there were 3 DO's that matched this year (oklahoma state, LECOM, and CCOM).

Where did the LECOM doc match?

 

[Faraaz23]

From the official January 07 match report someone posted a few days ago, it seems 13 IMG's matched. I would wanna say any NS program that is willing to look at an IMG would be willing to look at a DO too, but who knows.

 

[cremaster2007]

From the official January 07 match report someone posted a few days ago, it seems 13 IMG's matched. I would wanna say any NS program that is willing to look at an IMG would be willing to look at a DO too, but who knows.

Unfortunately most programs will look at IMG's before DO's..............just the nature of the beast

 

[cremaster2007]

what are the strong NS osteopathic programs? and how do they differ from the allopathic NS programs?

Multiple posts about the DO programs are found under this link. I rotated at multiple DO programs and interiewed at quite a few. Please pm if you have specific questions.

 

[Bluemirage]

It looks like someone from an osteopathic school did it this year. According to a posted LECOM matchlist in these forums, somebody there matched into LSU Neurosurgery.

 

[HarveyCushing]

It looks like someone from an osteopathic school did it this year. According to a posted LECOM matchlist in these forums, somebody there matched into LSU Neurosurgery.

I believe there were three:

Kansas University
LSU-Shrevport
SUNNY-Syracuse

 

[PhysicianArtist]

What makes you feel so determined to go into neurosurgery? Can you elaborate on which part of your "clinical" or "shadowing" experience that make you wanting to go into neurosugery? Does prestige play any role in your decision of wanting to go into ns? How do you perform as a student in your undergraduate year? It doesn't hurt to dream, but sometime you need to check your ego and be realistic. (My 2 cents).

 

[MDPhoDollas]

What makes you feel so determined to go into neurosurgery? Can you elaborate on which part of your "clinical" or "shadowing" experience that make you wanting to go into neurosugery? Does prestige play any role in your decision of wanting to go into ns? How do you perform as a student in your undergraduate year? It doesn't hurt to dream, but sometime you need to check your ego and be realistic. (My 2 cents).

Are you for real? Does prestige play a role in your decision to go into aesthetics? Or just money???

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." --Einstein, Albert

kick *** and then take names, HC. Step on those that tell you "you can't" on your way to the top. good luck.

 

[igcgnerd]

edit*

 

[HarveyCushing]

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." --Einstein, Albert

kick *** and then take names, HC. Step on those that tell you "you can't" on your way to the top. good luck.

Thanks for the encouragement. While my limited exposure to NS as a shadowing student has given me a profound interest in the field, I will be interested to see if this desire is still there during 3rd/4th year when I get some hands on exposure to the field. It is only then that I will really know if it is the field for me.

 

[MDPhoDollas]

Thanks for the encouragement. While my limited exposure to NS as a shadowing student has given me a profound interest in the field, I will be interested to see if this desire is still there during 3rd/4th year when I get some hands on exposure to the field. It is only then that I will really know if it is the field for me.

can't argue there...i thought i was gonna be a pill-pusher, say "ah", grad-student-torturing physician-scientist. no longer the case. regardless, in all you do, take no unfounded crap.

 

[HarveyCushing]

regardless, in all you do, take no unfounded crap.

It is hard when you are at the bottom of the totem pole and don't know what is true/false. Hopefully I will find a good mentor while in med-school.

 

[Freshnstylin]

It is hard when you are at the bottom of the totem pole and don't know what is true/false. Hopefully I will find a good mentor while in med-school.

Harvey...

More importantly than a mentor...make your app as good as possible. From what I've found out from people ahead of me...just have the complete application (you know, high gpa, 240+ usmle, some research experience while in med school, good clinical grades, solid letters). Basically just make sure that the only reason allopathic ns programs wouldn't give you an interview is because of your degree (because that is the only thing you cannot do anything about). Then I'm sure you will match somewhere. But don't count out osteo programs. Most are tough to get into and a number, from what I hear, are pretty good.

 

[beastmaster]

I've exchanged emails with a few DOs here on SDN who happened to apply for allopathic ns and allopathic ortho over the years. The ones who would otherwise be strong MD applications (pubs, very good but not great boards) had the most trouble (<5 interviews). Two (or three) guys who had 250+ USMLE scores received more allo interviews than they knew what to do with (close to 20). I believe all were also offered, and ended up happily taking, osteopathic spots very early.

 

[taXi]

Freshnstylin and beastmaster are both spot on. A good mentor is essential, but just part of the equation Fresh describes. Of course, if your mentor is good, they will prove a great asset in achieving other parts of said equation (i.e. research opportunities, letters, connections...).

I will definitely echo the suggestion to look closely at staying the osteopathic course. If you go the allo route, there will certainly be unwarranted prejudices working against you. But more importantly, if the most highly motivated DOs interested in neurosurgery, who could match allo if they wanted, stayed in osteopathy, the field as whole will benefit. Such individuals will be instrumental in elevating the public opinion of an entire population of fully trained doctors who are too often underrespected.

Honestly, I would hedge my bets by applying for both types of residency though. The very limited number of osteo spots would probably cause me as much pause as the anti-DO stigma some MDs subscribe to. Best of luck!