Do Physicians need an MPH/PhD to do research?

[gioia]

As a med student entering year 3, I wonder if a physician obtaining a masters degree or higher is really necessary for a future in research.

I have done research (two projects since med school began) and have been in situations where I wish I knew more statistics, or public health aspects and I have been in situations where a team is centered on a clinical trial and the physician was one of many people dedicated to the project (stats and IRB details were handled by other members).

Is it economically or academically advantageous to pursue another degree if I want to perform future research?

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[docbill]

Some schools require a MS to teach. Some Don't.

The IM-Research Path requirements. This will allow you to do a fellowship or a PhD at the same time as residency.

http://www.abim.org/cert/respath_pp.shtm

I will always look favorably on someone who has a PhD and a DO or MD if they are doing research. The main reason is because research is a skill you learn over the years. It took me 7 and I am still learning it. I see some MD doing research and they lack the mental training or thought process to come up with a good research idea and follow it through... but at the same time, I see PhD who are as stupid as a door.. probably many more than clinicians in research. hhhmmm Either way it depends on the person.

 

[Adcadet]

Personally, I think for MDs doing research an MPH, MS, PhD, etc can all provide necessary background and skills that can often be learned through other routes. For many the advanced degree is a way to more quickly assemble a base of knowledge. I view them a lot like driving lessons - you'll learn the same info as if you were just practicing on your own, but you'll learn quicker and will be less likely to pick up bad habits. An advanced degree is also nice as it's a sign to others that you likely have some clue regarding what you're talking about.

 

[Surg Path]

Is it economically or academically advantageous to pursue another degree if I want to perform future research?

I would say definately not. Do a fellowship with protected research time, and read research journals in the area you want to study everyday.

I'm a research fellow at Memorial Sloan-Kettering (predoctoral by the way- applying to MD/PhD programs). Anyway, unless you want to be a PI, all the physicians here (most with only an MD) do research 3 of 5 days a week in basic and clinical science.

In fact, the president of MSK, Harold Varmus, only has an MD, but is a PI and of course won a Nobel Prize.

So, in short, don't go for another degree- go into a post-grad fellowship or something at a center with excellent clinical or basic or translational research (depending on what you want).

 

[Adcadet]

...or get another degree as part of a fellowship.

 

[Flea girl]

Another way to go is do a post-doc after residency. I know at the NIH some of the big dogs(lab chiefs) only have a MD degree. The ones that I have worked with had little/no clinical responsabilites. One of the post-docs in another lab, did his residency in peds,then fellowship in ID, and did a post-doc at the NIH for 3yrs and when he left he was hired at a med school for an 80/20(80% research/ 20% clinical) position. So, I do not think that you need to get another degree. You can get the experience via an NIH post-doc after residency and they also have a program that will payback $35,000 of your loans each year that you are there for a your post-doc(up to 3-5 yrs).

 

[gioia]

Another way to go is do a post-doc after residency. I know at the NIH some of the big dogs(lab chiefs) only have a MD degree. The ones that I have worked with had little/no clinical responsabilites. One of the post-docs in another lab, did his residency in peds,then fellowship in ID, and did a post-doc at the NIH for 3yrs and when he left he was hired at a med school for an 80/20(80% research/ 20% clinical) position. So, I do not think that you need to get another degree. You can get the experience via an NIH post-doc after residency and they also have a program that will payback $35,000 of your loans each year that you are there for a your post-doc(up to 3-5 yrs).

So, if a person chooses to do the post-doc-post-residency, are they working full time toward that post-doc or are they seeing patients as well? It seems that it could take away from clinical practice?

 

[Surg Path]

So, if a person chooses to do the post-doc-post-residency, are they working full time toward that post-doc or are they seeing patients as well? It seems that it could take away from clinical practice?

Depends on the program. At NIH, the post-residency fellowships can be all bench work, or a combination of bench and clinic research, or all clinical research. Here at Memorial Sloan-Kettering, most onc fellows do 1 year all clinical, then 2nd and third year have protected research time (2 clinic days, the rest research in a shosen area). Other fellowships have 3 or 4 days clinic and less research and resources for research. I think it all depends on the program and the research resources at the center.

That's all from an oncology perspective though.

 

[CostalShowers]

I agree that MDs do not need an MPH or PhD in order to do research. I've worked with a number of MDs who seem to do quality research w/o an extra degree.

That said, I agree with docbill that learning how to do good research is a process that one must devote some time to, either through fellowship or some other designated period of time.