DO Match List Thread 2021

[Scrubs101]

My understanding is they are completely separate. I could be mistaken, @Scrubs101 can you clarify?

Entirely separate! The curriculum is set up drastically different, COM is systems based/lecture orientated and CHM is small group learning type curriculum, with some type of clinicals going on basically all 4 years. We share the same anatomy department, and some professors teach at both. Additionally we share some clinicals sites and dont share others.

The confusion maybe from the different campuses for the DO school, we have 3 campuses (East Lansing, Macomb, and DMC) and we do preclinicals together with lectures broadcasted between sites. The MD school also has two campuses Grand Rapids and East Lansing. The only interaction i had with the MD students even at the east lansing campus was when i TA’ed anatomy, they even have their own seperate building from us which is much nicer (not salty at all… ) lol

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[DarkHorizon]

Entirely separate! The curriculum is set up drastically different, COM is systems based/lecture orientated and CHM is small group learning type curriculum, with some type of clinicals going on basically all 4 years. We share the same anatomy department, and some professors teach at both. Additionally we share some clinicals sites and dont share others.

The confusion maybe from the different campuses for the DO school, we have 3 campuses (East Lansing, Macomb, and DMC) and we do preclinicals together with lectures broadcasted between sites. The MD school also has two campuses Grand Rapids and East Lansing. The only interaction i had with the MD students even at the east lansing campus was when i TA’ed anatomy, they even have their own seperate building from us which is much nicer (not salty at all… ) lol

There was a lot more overlap before CHM moved to Grand Rapids.

 

[Scrubs101]

There was a lot more overlap before CHM moved to Grand Rapids.

Oh I believe it, CHMs unique curriculum style seems pretty new.

Definitely jealous of their GR campus and association with spectrum in GR too, MSUs putting up a bunch of new giant medical research facilities in GR now too.

COM and CHM may start having more overlap again in the future as well now that the two colleges essentially merged and are lead by the same president and that university hospital is being built on campus

 

[deleted1066189]

legitimately asking this, but how are schools allowed to have both an MD and DO program?

 

[Kardio]

legitimately asking this, but how are schools allowed to have both an MD and DO program?

Why would they not be allowed to...?

 

[Cornfed101]

legitimately asking this, but how are schools allowed to have both an MD and DO program?

That’s like asking how schools are allowed to have a law school and a med school. Nothing is stopping them

 

[Ho0v-man]

legitimately asking this, but how are schools allowed to have both an MD and DO program?

Ever make something really good for dinner but have some leftovers and then combined it with some other leftovers to have an okay dinner later in the week? Same thing.

 

[Prehealth1011]

DO is just MD with some extra steps. Off topic but what I wanna know about is how the dual DMD/DO works at Nova. That is an odd combo

 

[Kardio]

DO is just MD with some extra steps. Off topic but what I wanna know about is how the dual DMD/DO works at Nova. That is an odd combo

Includes OMM on teeth

 

[Dr.SPAC3MAN]

Includes OMM on teeth

This it?

 

[Prehealth1011]

Includes OMM on teeth

Is there even FASCIA in teeth?

 

[Scrubs101]

Is there even FASCIA in teeth?

If you believe in our dear savior AT Still hard enough anything can exist and be manipulated

 

[sunshinefl]

DO is just MD with some extra steps. Off topic but what I wanna know about is how the dual DMD/DO works at Nova. That is an odd combo

It’s for OMFS. Or at least the couple classmates that I knew of in the DMD/DO were OMFS.

 

[mwsapphire]

Ever make something really good for dinner but have some leftovers and then combined it with some other leftovers to have an okay dinner later in the week? Same thing.

 

[mwsapphire]

It’s for OMFS. Or at least the couple classmates that I knew of in the DMD/DO were OMFS.

To this day the training for OMFS freaks me out. Why the hell would anyone do that? Do you pay for professional school twice?

 

[deleted1066189]

To this day the training for OMFS freaks me out. Why the hell would anyone do that? Do you pay for professional school twice?

most dental residencies are unpaid, or make you pay tuition

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

 

[sunshinefl]

To this day the training for OMFS freaks me out. Why the hell would anyone do that? Do you pay for professional school twice?

Their med school part was abridged in some way. I don’t fully understand everything about it lol.

 

[mwsapphire]

Their med school part was abridged in some way. I don’t fully understand everything about it lol.

but do they actually pay tuition for all 4 yrs? Huh. Only kids of millionaires can do OMFS I guess.

 

[sunshinefl]

but do they actually pay tuition for all 4 yrs? Huh. Only kids of millionaires can do OMFS I guess.

I think in the case of my classmates, if I understood correctly, they got their dental degree first (?) and then they skipped M1 (?) and then they were doing a hybrid special M2/M3 simultaneously (?) and were already accepted into the OMFS residency (?)

 

[mwsapphire]

most dental residencies are unpaid, or make you pay tuition

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

at least they are shorter. And even dental school costs more! This is insane.

 

[Neopolymath]

To this day the training for OMFS freaks me out. Why the hell would anyone do that? Do you pay for professional school twice?

It's not as bad as it seems. Also the job is amazing.

 

[drstranger]

To this day the training for OMFS freaks me out. Why the hell would anyone do that? Do you pay for professional school twice?

The average OMFS salary is 500k, I know several that make over a million but they all work crazy hours. I remember reading somewhere that wisdom teeth removal is the highest reimbursed surgery for the time it takes (45 minutes). So yeah you pay for dental school and 3 years of medical school but most OMFS are able to pay it back very quickly.

 

[Cornfed101]

To this day the training for OMFS freaks me out. Why the hell would anyone do that? Do you pay for professional school twice?

One of the admins at U MN did dental school, then med school, then plastic surgery with a facial plastic surgery fellowship. He just needs a neurosurgery fellowship (I know not a thing) and he would be master of the head

 

[mwsapphire]

The average OMFS salary is 500k, I know several that make over a million but they all work crazy hours. I remember reading somewhere that wisdom teeth removal is the highest reimbursed surgery for the time it takes (45 minutes). So yeah you pay for dental school and 3 years of medical school but most OMFS are able to pay it back very quickly.

I didn't realize OMFS surgeons where the people who took wisdom teeth out...I'm so dumb, I thought it was some kind of reconstructive/ cosmetic branch of facial surgery. I guess I never realized " Oral surgeon" is short for " OMF Surgeon" . I mean I guess it is good that some people take the risk, bc we do need OMF surgeons.

One of the admins at U MN did dental school, then med school, then plastic surgery with a facial plastic surgery fellowship. He just needs a neurosurgery fellowship (I know not a thing) and he would be master of the head

Did he pay off his debt tho

 

[drstranger]

I didn't realize OMFS surgeons where the people who took wisdom teeth out...I'm so dumb, I thought it was some kind of reconstructive/ cosmetic branch of facial surgery. I guess I never realized " Oral surgeon" is short for " OMF Surgeon" . I mean I guess it is good that some people take the risk, bc we do need OMF surgeons.

Did he pay off his debt tho

They do both Cosmetics are wisdom teeth both of which pay well. Wisdom teeth you get reimbursed from insurance, cosmetics will be a lot of out of pocket. But yeah lots of schools since you still have to do a residency, meaning 4 years undergrad 4 years dental 2/3 years medical 4 years for residency= 14/15 years post-secondary school...

 

[HoneyBadger3]

The average OMFS salary is 500k, I know several that make over a million but they all work crazy hours. I remember reading somewhere that wisdom teeth removal is the highest reimbursed surgery for the time it takes (45 minutes). So yeah you pay for dental school and 3 years of medical school but most OMFS are able to pay it back very quickly.

Met an OMFS resident on his 3rd month of anesthesia rotation. Apparently they need to know how to intubate since it may be necessary in the clinic on rare occasions.

The soft tissue trauma cases that they do are life changing. Looking at postop photos and outcomes, you would've never guessed the severity of the wound they arrived with. A truly rewarding part of OMFS, while easily pulling in 500k+ but the trade off is unpredictable and long hours.

 

[Cornfed101]

Did he pay off his debt tho

He was a lifetime military guy so I don’t think he had much/any

 

[Chicken Bone]

To this day the training for OMFS freaks me out. Why the hell would anyone do that? Do you pay for professional school twice?

To the best of my knowledge, OMFS residents don't pay. They need to pay tuition or something, but at the same time, they receive a stipend or salary something which covers these fees kind like PhD candidates

 

[Chicken Bone]

One of the admins at U MN did dental school, then med school, then plastic surgery with a facial plastic surgery fellowship. He just needs a neurosurgery fellowship (I know not a thing) and he would be master of the head

Eduardo D. Rodriguez, MD, DDS

Dr. Eduardo DeJesus Rodriguez is a plastic surgeon at NYU Langone specializing in reconstructive and cosmetic surgery. Learn more.

nyulangone.org

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Met an OMFS resident on his 3rd month of anesthesia rotation. Apparently they need to know how to intubate since it may be necessary in the clinic on rare occasions.

The soft tissue trauma cases that they do are life changing. Looking at postop photos and outcomes, you would've never guessed the severity of the wound they arrived with. A truly rewarding part of OMFS, while easily pulling in 500k+ but the trade off is unpredictable and long hours.

Last I knew, OMS residents were required to do 6 months of anesthesia training as they do procedures in their office under conscious sedation

 

[HoneyBadger3]

Last I knew, OMS residents were required to do 6 months of anesthesia training as they do procedures in their office under conscious sedation

Not sure how it's spread out through the training but he was quite unhappy that he had to do 3 months of anesthesia consecutively. To be fair... anesthesia department was treating him very poorly.

 

[slowthai]

To this day the training for OMFS freaks me out. Why the hell would anyone do that? Do you pay for professional school twice?

It's like any other surgical sub, they're passionate about the field. What makes things even sweeter is that in private practice, you make more money than derm while working the same or even less hours. I'd consider it the best medical/dental specialty for maximizing lifestyle to money ratio (post-training, of course). Only downsides are that it's the most competitive dental specialty (match rate is like 50%) and the training is brutal (think GS/nsg).

What makes it less difficult than matching something like derm is that you get multiple tries (up to 6) for the CBSE (step 1 equivalent, which is their ticket into the field) and you can do a non-categorical internship (equivalent to a surgical prelim) to really increase your chances, which fields like ortho or nsg don't have.

You don't need to go to med school if you go the traditional, four year route (this pathway makes up about half of the programs in the nation), so you just end up paying for dental school and getting paid as a resident, just like us.

 

[djiboutiman]

DMU Match List posted recently on their website.

 

[kdog024]

What are people's thoughts on DMU's match list?

 

[SurgDoc95]

What are people's thoughts on DMU's match list?

Maybe they self selected out this class, but only 2 gen surg matches for them and all those TY years does not seem like a good outcome

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Maybe they self selected out this class, but only 2 gen surg matches for them and all those TY years does not seem like a good outcome

This. It’s the worst DMU list in a number of years.

Could be self selection, but when the quality across the board is weaker than previous years it does make you wonder if there was something else going on

 

[kdog024]

This. It’s the worst DMU list in a number of years.

Could be self selection, but when the quality across the board is weaker than previous years it does make you wonder if there was something else going on

I heard that this year the residency match was really messy due to COVID due to virtual interviewing and clerkships getting messed with. That could maybe be the reason..

 

[DOVinciRobot]

I heard that this year the residency match was really messy due to COVID due to virtual interviewing and clerkships getting messed with. That could maybe be the reason..

I mean maybe. Other schools still didn’t appear to have the kind of drop off DMU had.

 

[kdog024]

RIP💀 Hopefully, they resolve whatever happened this year, if something happened. I am an incoming DMU student lol.

 

[JW4Gdud]

RIP💀 Hopefully, they resolve whatever happened this year, if something happened. I am an incoming DMU student lol.

There are 12 matched into Advanced PGY2 programs. There are only 3 matched into Transitional or Preliminary programs. I think DO graduates did not match as good as previous years due to the virtual interviews.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Maybe they self selected out this class, but only 2 gen surg matches for them and all those TY years does not seem like a good outcome

Why do we need to measure how good a match list is based on the # of gen surgery matches!? A lot of people don’t want anything to do with gen surgery, there’s nothing flashy about gen surgery lol... the competitive people rather do something better and those that can match it still rather do something else like rads or anesthesia etc.. oh and I don’t mean this to be disrespectful to the field of gen surgery..

 

[SurgDoc95]

Why do we need to measure how good a match list is based on the # of gen surgery matches!? A lot of people don’t want anything to do with gen surgery, there’s nothing flashy about gen surgery lol... the competitive people rather do something better and those that can match it still rather do something else like rads or anesthesia etc.. oh and I don’t mean this to be disrespectful to the field of gen surgery..

It's my personal benchmark, take your ruffled feathers elsewhere

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

It's my personal benchmark, take your ruffled feathers elsewhere

that doesnt mean it's a good metric. One of the smartest people in my class wants to go into Peds, doesnt change the fact that he's gonna be able to match at a good place.

 

[Schwifty]

that doesnt mean it's a good metric. One of the smartest people in my class wants to go into Peds, doesnt change the fact that he's gonna be able to match at a good place.

They may have only had 2 GS, but they had 5 ortho so it was actually a good year

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

They may have only had 2 GS, but they had 5 ortho so it was actually a good year

right, which is why simply saying GS good isn't a particularly useful way of analyzing the quality of the match. For that matter, neither is how prestigious the matched institutions either, but thats a different discussion

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Why do we need to measure how good a match list is based on the # of gen surgery matches!? A lot of people don’t want anything to do with gen surgery, there’s nothing flashy about gen surgery lol... the competitive people rather do something better and those that can match it still rather do something else like rads or anesthesia etc.. oh and I don’t mean this to be disrespectful to the field of gen surgery..

They may have only had 2 GS, but they had 5 ortho so it was actually a good year

2 GS matches in a class that size is not a good number. It just isn’t. There are always a certain percentage interested. Either it was an extreme outlier in interest or something happened.

And 5 ortho isn’t impressive when you put it in the context that they typically have 10-15 apply annually.

Like I said, it could definitely be student interest, but the list as a whole does not hold up to years past IMHO, and if it was interest it is an outlier year for DMU interest wise.

 

[BoneWizard]

2 GS matches in a class that size is not a good number. It just isn’t. There are always a certain percentage interested. Either it was an extreme outlier in interest or something happened.

And 5 ortho isn’t impressive when you put it in the context that they typically have 10-15 apply annually.

Like I said, it could definitely be student interest, but the list as a whole does not hold up to years past IMHO, and if it was interest it is an outlier year for DMU interest wise.

It might just be interest. ACOM had a similar trend. But our pre-soap match was the highest its ever been at 95% with placement at 99%. I've yet to talk to anyone in our class that has a stated interest in GS.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Why can't we judge a school's match list by number of competitive specialties AND prestige of match locations?

 

[BoneWizard]

Because what if I don't want to be a neurosurgeon in Boston?

 

[drstranger]

Just another reason why a match-list has very little to do with the strength of a school or students. Of the top 5 in my class only one of them wants something besides IM or FM. I feel like match rate and placement rate is the most valuable info you can take from a schools match, it shows how many people matched somewhere they wanted.