DO looking into ACGME Residency

[DopaDO]

Hello, I am a current OMS-1 with a really strong interest in ENT. I understand that I am still early in my medical school career but for the purposes of this post, lets assume I won't change my mind. I really want to apply to ACGME residencies, not because of any difference in training per se, but because I want to live in a certain area of the country that does not have any AOA ENT residencies. I understand that I have my work cut out for me in this regard, but I have worked hard to this point and have done fairly well. I understand USMLE will probably be the most important factor in determining my chances, but are there any other things anyone could recommend to me in order to get a leg up on the competition? I was considering doing research this summer at one of the school's where I would potentially want to do my residency. Would this be a good idea? Would it be best to do something specifically with the ENT program there? Should I send the department an email explaining my situation? Also its not just one school, there are about 8 programs in that area that I would be really comfortable with. Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to know what gives me my best shot. I know I have my work cut out for me.

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[neutropeniaboy]

You should read up on this thread.

I don't know of a single DO in an allopathic otolaryngology residency program. In fact, I think they represent <1% of all residents in programs.

Secondly, the chances of matching into an allopathic program are so remote, that I implore you to think twice about your choice, especially if it should ever become apparent that you want to do an allopathic residency because of location.

You will not find an allopathic program that is likely to set a precedent for accepting a DO student.

If you are not convinced of the above, then my suggestions are as follows.
1. Consider transferring into an MD program if possible
2. Locate an MD program with an ENT residency and get to know the faculty ASAP
3. At #2, see if there is research you can do at that place
4. At #2, start shadowing doctors and getting to know the residents
5. Make sure you score above 250 on your USMLEs. That is about 10 points higher than the average MD grad getting into otolaryngology, and, frankly, doing just as well as an MD student isn't going to get you in.
6. Rotate. I hate telling students to rotate, but you have to. Rotate at MD programs.
7. Consider a year or two off for research at an MD program.

You've got your work cut out for you. Make no assumptions about MD programs, and don't gripe and moan about how it's "unfair" that you have to do all this.

If it makes you feel better, this would be what I would tell an MD student these days, except #1 and #7. I recommend #7 for people with low board scores.

 

[DopaDO]

Thank you for your advice, all help is very much appreciated.

I actually looked it up fairly recent to see just how many DO's have matched into ACGME ENT and I found 2... in the last 4 years. No doubt I have my work cut out for me, but I wonder if its as bad as that statistic implies. I believe that most DO's interested in ENT probably match in the AOA match (you'd have to be a crazy good candidate to even consider thinking about skipping the AOA match) so the candidates that have a shot at matching at ACGME programs (stat wise), probably don't even get the chance to try. Maybe I'm way off base here, but its just a thought.

I plan on contacting an MD school that I would be highly interested in doing my residency at very soon. I actually know some of the people at the school already, but no one in the ENT department. Would you consider it more important to do ENT research at said MD school or would shadowing at the ENT department be a better choice?

Once again, I appreciate the honesty and I plan to work extremely hard, hopefully I can be the exception.

 

[neutropeniaboy]

I plan on contacting an MD school that I would be highly interested in doing my residency at very soon. I actually know some of the people at the school already, but no one in the ENT department. Would you consider it more important to do ENT research at said MD school or would shadowing at the ENT department be a better choice?

I would consider it a necessity to do both. This is going to expose you to as many people as possible and expose as much of your abilities as possible.

If you shine clinically, then that's a leg up. If you shine academically and from a research perspective, then that program just might want to take you on board.

 

[tideleonheart]

Thank you for your advice, all help is very much appreciated.

I actually looked it up fairly recent to see just how many DO's have matched into ACGME ENT and I found 2... in the last 4 years. No doubt I have my work cut out for me, but I wonder if its as bad as that statistic implies. I believe that most DO's interested in ENT probably match in the AOA match (you'd have to be a crazy good candidate to even consider thinking about skipping the AOA match) so the candidates that have a shot at matching at ACGME programs (stat wise), probably don't even get the chance to try. Maybe I'm way off base here, but its just a thought.

I plan on contacting an MD school that I would be highly interested in doing my residency at very soon. I actually know some of the people at the school already, but no one in the ENT department. Would you consider it more important to do ENT research at said MD school or would shadowing at the ENT department be a better choice?

Once again, I appreciate the honesty and I plan to work extremely hard, hopefully I can be the exception.

As a 4th year who went through the ENT application cycle this year, it is exceedingly difficult, and I truly would not count on getting into an allopathic residency. Almost all other residencies are viable for DOs except ENT and a couple of others. Even ortho is a cakewalk compared to ENT.

As an average-ish candidate (above average board scores but below ENT average, ENT research, good GPA, and good letters), I applied to 20+ programs in my region and I got 0 interview invites. Even at the institution I did research at, went to shadow, and had a good rapport with the PD and 2 of the other faculty (and got letters).

Along the interview trail, the DO ENT applicants talked about their applications to allopathic programs, and out of the 15ish people I talked to, only 1 person even got an interview invite. It was at a program that he rotated at that automatically interviews anyone who rotates there.

Before this year, I thought similarly to you: the reason DOs don't match allo is because everyone goes for the osteopathic match and doesn't even want to try. Now, however, I definitely think differently.

To be blunt, the only way you even have a shot is to do some heavy hitting research, get significantly above ENT average board scores (242 I think was avg this year), get a high class rank, get excellent letters from prominent ENTs, and network with programs and let them get to know you. As if that wasn't hard enough, you also need to have a desirable personality... EVEN if you do all of this, I still think it's going to be an uphill battle for you. The percentage of students that can actually achieve all of this is very very small no matter what school you go to or what degree you're going to get. If you were my brother, I would tell you that if you really want to do ENT, reconsider the osteopathic programs, or consider another specialty if you must stay in a certain geographical region.

Good luck, and feel free to PM me for more personal details on my experiences.

 

[plauto]

Adding to what everyone else has said already...I think it's important to keep in mind that, whether you go the AOA route or ACGME, you will be applying all over the country hoping to get in. Investing a huge amount of time trying to get accepted in a specific area is not high yield by any means (MD or DO).
To echo everyone else, I have not met a single DO resident in an ACGME program.
It just won't happen. I'd accept the reality and focus on the AOA match, which is very hard as well.

 

[neutropeniaboy]

To echo everyone else, I have not met a single DO resident in an ACGME program.
It just won't happen. I'd accept the reality and focus on the AOA match, which is very hard as well.

You probably should match first yourself and then speak more authoritatively after that...

 

[101441]

Zing!!!

 

[Lipoma]

You should definitely consider going to the DO match for ENT and living in a different area of country for a few years. (You can't always choose where you want to go in competitive specialities). Even the DO ent programs are competitive. You increase your chances of matching ENT if you rotate through the site where you are applying and if you are done a signifiant amount of research. If you want an allopathic spot, then you better have really good usmle scores or else they will not even look at your application. Do research and do rotations at your top choices. You don't need to switch to MD program to match allopathic. Good luck!

 

[sammyguy193]

Don't bother applying MD for ENT... there was ONE DO accepted last year... And that person had already completed an allopathic residency in Family Medicine and was VERY well published....

 

[WDeagle]

Don't bother applying MD for ENT... there was ONE DO accepted last year... And that person had already completed an allopathic residency in Family Medicine and was VERY well published....

Where?

I guess that makes like 3 now. One at UAB and one at Geisenger wherever that is.

 

[XCdude]

To the OP, you need to have the scores, work ethic and some balls to get an ENT position. It has been done and DOs have trained at "highly ranked, prestigious programs."

If you want to obtain an allopathic ENT residency position you will have to have the confidence in yourself to make this happen. Your school isn't going to help you much if at all. You need to find the opportunities, and always stay positive. ENT is competitive for all comers (MD students included), so have a thick skin and work hard. Very hard. Start by getting ahold of an alumni list of all ENTs from your school and see where they trained and see if they have any connections. Have a plan B.

Good luck.