DO ENT... Alternative Routes?

[sammyguy193]

Lets say I can get into Osteopathic GenSurg, but not ENT based on board scores and grades. Is there an alternate route into ENT if I do a year or two of GenSurg and transfer into ENT? Or is it better to do an internship year first and reapply? I'd be willing to add on a year or two before ENT residency, but, if allowed, it would be nice to count internship/prelim year towards ENT residency... Anyone have any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks for your input!
Sam

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[danzman]

I considered ENT and EM and decided on EM in my 4th year. I was told by pretty much everyone that if you don't match your first time around you need to find something else to do. That said, there was a spot that opened up at a program. This place was going through some changes and it was thought that it would close. Essentially, one resident quit/was fired and they initially were not going to fill it, but some funding opened up and they took someone from the same hospital. This was a bit of an extreme case and I imagine that it all but never happens. It is my understanding that a TRI would be the best shot, but would only help you out if you did one at a program and got lots of face time.

 

[sammyguy193]

Sound advice. That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid- not matching. Would audition rotations be enough? I'm pretty good clinically with 5+ years working as a tech in the ED prior to med school, and I've been told I'm quite the schmoozer...

 

[WDeagle]

Sound advice. That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid- not matching. Would audition rotations be enough? I'm pretty good clinically with 5+ years working as a tech in the ED prior to med school, and I've been told I'm quite the schmoozer...

Dont over-schmooze. Not sure if anyone would care about you being an ER tech.

Consider ACGME gen surg then Head and Neck fellowships if you don't match. If you think you're competitive enough for AOA ENT then you're def competitive for ACGME gen surg. If H&N isn't your thing then find something else you like. My recommendation would be to set up a research year if it doesn't work out. Even then your very unlikely to match.

 

[sammyguy193]

ENT is definitely my thing. I know that. If i can't get in, I'll apply for combined EM/FM... Elective rotation with an MD ENT this fall. Super excited! The ER experience provided me a good foundation to work off of and gave me the insight on how to excel on rotations and how to do basic patient care. Not taking the USMLE, just comlex. Anyone know if a transitional year would hurt an ENT application? Let's say I get a 500 on comlex, and grade's are B average. Clinical grade are good, with good LORs, one published article (non-research), and good social and networking skills (which is what was meant by schmoozing). Also- good surg hands with no tremor. Good audition rotations, provided I impress/do well. Chances for ENT residency?

Also, are there any transitional years that approximate a surgical internship like the MDs have?

 

[Dissected]

ENT is definitely my thing. I know that. If i can't get in, I'll apply for combined EM/FM... Elective rotation with an MD ENT this fall. Super excited! The ER experience provided me a good foundation to work off of and gave me the insight on how to excel on rotations and how to do basic patient care. Not taking the USMLE, just comlex. Anyone know if a transitional year would hurt an ENT application? Let's say I get a 500 on comlex, and grade's are B average. Clinical grade are good, with good LORs, one published article (non-research), and good social and networking skills (which is what was meant by schmoozing). Also- good surg hands with no tremor. Good audition rotations, provided I impress/do well. Chances for ENT residency?

Also, are there any transitional years that approximate a surgical internship like the MDs have?

The bolded part made me chuckle

Wait..have you taken step I comlex yet? How do you know if you're competitive for ENT or not??

 

[sammyguy193]

Wait..have you taken step I comlex yet? How do you know if you're competitive for ENT or not??

Averaging 60% on uworld, 31 MCAT, 510 & 500 on COMSAEs... I'm asking if there are alternative routes or ways to make up for my app if my COMLEX score is not commensurate with others applying to the field.

Thx!!

 

[Dissected]

Averaging 60% on uworld, 31 MCAT, 510 & 500 on COMSAEs... I'm asking if there are alternative routes or ways to make up for my app if my COMLEX score is not commensurate with others applying to the field.

Thx!!

I see.

Good luck with the comlex. You might score a lot higher than you think, as is the case with a lot of folks (including myself). The comsae's don't seem to be as predictive as the nbme's. Face time at DO programs can overcome just about anything else on your application, so audition rotations will be key. Especially if you are good at winning people over.

Again, good luck!

 

[Chakrabs]

Wait, you aren't planning on taking USMLE, havent even taken Comlex, and are already planning your ENT rotations and career? Talk about putting the cart before the horse! ENT in general are hard enough to get into, let alone limiting yourself solely to osteo programs. You sound rather sure of yourself and your abilities (certainly to schmooze, maybe not necessarily in terms of testing), so why not maximize your chances and take Step1? Whats the point of doing an MD ENT rotation if you're not going to take the USMLE? You might as well go to more DO ENT programs to increase your chances of DO match.

 

[danzman]

Wait, you aren't planning on taking USMLE, havent even taken Comlex, and are already planning your ENT rotations and career? Talk about putting the cart before the horse! ENT in general are hard enough to get into, let alone limiting yourself solely to osteo programs. You sound rather sure of yourself and your abilities (certainly to schmooze, maybe not necessarily in terms of testing), so why not maximize your chances and take Step1? Whats the point of doing an MD ENT rotation if you're not going to take the USMLE? You might as well go to more DO ENT programs to increase your chances of DO match.

I completely agree. If you don't take the USMLE and make a 240+ then do not waste your time looking at MD programs. Put all your eggs in the DO match or find another field. Also, I don't know how realistic it is to apply to both ent and em. Both are competitive and both will require multiple aways. Not to mention the interview season would be a disaster. I had friends that had to scramble into prelim MD surg spots because they were too good for DO programs. Both had 250s, research, and letters. Don't make that mistake. Also, at my school the feild that had the most scramblers was EM so be careful about using it as a backup.

 

[Chakrabs]

Yes, be careful thinking you can double-apply and just waltz into an EM spot. EM has rapidly become very competitive, and there wasn't a single spot open after last year's MD match (not sure what was the case with the DO programs). Also, now that there is no longer a scramble, its even harder to get any of the open spots following the match. This is important to keep in mind as you go forward.

 

[sammyguy193]

Eff..... COMLEX 470/80. Didn't sleep at all before the exam. How screwed am I?

 

[DanDan17]

Eff..... COMLEX 470/80. Didn't sleep at all before the exam. How screwed am I?

Just got my scores back and I'm in an even worse position..... but I would like to know the same

 

[danzman]

You gentlemen are both in some trouble. At the end of the day, good scores or bad, you have to decide to put all your eggs into one basket and run with it. I am convinced that a good away and a good attitude can make up for bad scores. You gotta decide if this is what you really want and that there is no other way around it. Do all the away's you can, apply to everyplace, and rank all of them. If you don't match, do a TRI for a year at a place with an ENT program and try again next year. I was on the fence between ENT and EM and had pretty good scores. I did some rotations and found that I loved EM. I also realized that not matching for me would have been a financial mess (im a little older) and it became apparent that both fields are very competitive, as such if I didn't match into either one the first time around, I wouldn't likely get in the next year and would be stuck doing IM or FM. It is my opinion that the deck is inherently stacked against med students when trying to pick a field, we get so little real time to experience it and you gotta make your mind up really early on. I think you pick two fields by the start of 3rd year and try to have it narrowed down by Dec of third year. That way you can get all those competitive away rotations in the bag. So my advice, no matter what the board score, is to pick one and run with it. That said, this is a lofty decision and should not be made on a whim. Try to be realistic with yourself.

 

[tryin4ent]

As someone who has tried to reapply for ENT as an intern, let me offer some advice. DO NOT TRY IT. Funding is much tighter in the DO world than in the allopathic world, very few programs want to take anyone that they will get reimbursed less for when there are hundreds of eager 4th years fighting for the same spot. Also it immediately brands you as someone that people didn't want as a 4th year, putting you behind from the start. I decided late and didn't match 4th year and did a traditional internship trying to get into ENT. I literally called every program there was and only found 3 that would consider it and it was a huge uphill battle. I got a offered a 2nd year spot days after signing into an FP program and I'm happy now but it was a miserable year. Also doing allopathic GS will most likely not transfer so don't do that unless you would be happy staying in GS and don't waste time applying for allopathic ENT unless you have connections, like your uncle runs a program connection, there just isn't any crossover.

Comlex 470 is going to be tough too, you absolutely have to rotate at every program you can if you want to be considered with that low of a score.

 

[tryin4ent]

As someone who has tried to reapply for ENT as an intern, let me offer some advice. DO NOT TRY IT. Funding is much tighter in the DO world than in the allopathic world, very few programs want to take anyone that they will get reimbursed less for when there are hundreds of eager 4th years fighting for the same spot. Also it immediately brands you as someone that people didn't want as a 4th year, putting you behind from the start. I decided late and didn't match 4th year and did a traditional internship trying to get into ENT. I literally called every program there was and only found 3 that would consider it and it was a huge uphill battle. I got a offered a 2nd year spot days after signing into an FP program and I'm happy now but it was a miserable year. Also doing allopathic GS will most likely not transfer so don't do that unless you would be happy staying in GS and don't waste time applying for allopathic ENT unless you have connections, like your uncle runs a program connection, there just isn't any crossover.

Comlex 470 is going to be tough too, you absolutely have to rotate at every program you can if you want to be considered with that low of a score. If you do decide to do an internship, apply now and don't scramble b/c it will have to be at a place with ENT.