Dismissed after not passing 2 blocks - what do I do?

[drewskinator]

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[DrStephenStrange]

Yeah, I think that's a typical response for 2 strikes. 1 strike might yield you a second chance for remediation, but 2 failures in a row often lead to dismissal. Now, you could try to appeal and ask for a second chance, but otherwise there's nothing else to do.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

I think there’s likely nothing left to do unfortunately. Hopefully you look back on this experience as a blessing in disguise and can have a successful career in something else

 

[drewskinator]

Yeah, I think that's a typical response for 2 strikes. 1 strike might yield you a second chance for remediation, but 2 failures in a row often lead to dismissal. Now, you could try to appeal and ask for a second chance, but otherwise there's nothing else to do.

I appealed and asked for a second chance, was denied. Thank you for the kind response.

 

[drewskinator]

I think there’s likely nothing left to do unfortunately. Hopefully you look back on this experience as a blessing in disguise and can have a successful career in something else

Appreciate the kind response.

 

[bngli]

Damn, that sucks - sorry to hear that. But it is crazy that they didn't warn you that you were in probation or something after the first fail. As for advice, I really don't know. Did you read the student manual to see if there was anything that could be done besides an appeal? In my manual it says something like people who are dismissed can apply for readmission in like 1 or 2 years, but I don't actually know anyone who tried that even though I know a few people who got dismissed for academic reasons.

As for your question about this being common, at least in my school it isn't. Here, if you fail 2 courses you have to remediate the entire year. But, if you fail any class on your remediation year you get dismissed.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Is this an MD school? I’ve never heard of one that doesn’t do remediation. Look at the handbook policy. Sorry to hear your situation

 

[DarkBluMage]

Hi all. To keep things brief, I am an MS1 and I was recently dismissed from my school because I did not pass 2 of my first 3 blocks during my first year. I was really shocked to learn that my administration went straight to dismissing me and not offering remediation for the courses NOR the possibility of restarting MS1 next year. As far as my grades, I was within 5-10% of passing on my final grades, so I wasn't failing abysmally.
Despite my grades, I never had any issues regarding professionalism, attended class regularly, and got into NO trouble or issues outside of my academic performance.

Is a response like this from administration regarding 2 failed courses common? I have already appealed and was denied. I explained to my deans that I had some personal issues that were stopping me from performing my best, but it did not help my case.

Please help me guys, I am so lost.

Were you MD or DO? I heard DO has stricter policies. It’s confusing that they didn’t offer remediation after your first fail and let you continue onto the second block. I get 2 fails counting as dismissal but usually some type of remediation chance is given before a fail is recorded.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Were you MD or DO? I heard DO has stricter policies. It’s confusing that they didn’t offer remediation after your first fail and let you continue onto the second block. I get 2 fails counting as dismissal but usually some type of remediation chance is given before a fail is recorded.

Some schools don't do remediation until the summer after the academic year has ended. I'm guessing that was probably the plan after the first failure.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Some schools don't do remediation until the summer after the academic year has ended. I'm guessing that was probably the plan after the first failure.

That makes sense. I guess their policy only allows for one remediation attempt. Crazy that OP wasn’t even told prior to 3rd block about dismissal.

 

[operaman]

Check your student handbook but schools are usually good about following their own rules.

10% below the cutoff for failing is pretty huge actually. I think you would need a pretty compelling story as to why giving you another chance would lead to any different outcome. M1 is arguably one of the easiest parts of training other than having to make the initial adjustment from pre med workloads. You would have many years of harder coursework and major standardized exams that you must pass and for which there is no mercy.

The only worse outcome than failing out of med school now would be failing out a few years from now. I think the school may be doing you a favor in the end. I always share the story of my classmate who spent 4 years in Med school but never made it past M2 and step 1.

If you have a great plan for success moving forward and good reasons why you didn’t already do it, then try and articulate that to your admin and see if they will reconsider.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm sorry this is where things have landed. Generally once a appeal has been denied that is that. The school usually has many years of experience with this and has learned when it is in the best interest of them and a student to part ways. What I would look at is where you might want to go from here, and also do an honest self-assessment of what happened. Generally the biggest reason for a multiple block failure in MS1 is a failure to adjust to the volume of material and to put in the enormously increased number of study hours (40-80 a week, early on). If you are putting in enough hours but still having a problem, that is where things like depression, anxiety, or learning disabilities become a question. If none of the above, there are other possibilities but they're generally things the person knows and can address in the future like living situation challenges, relationship problems, etc. I would say once you narrow down what the issue was, use that to perform a realistic assessment of what future paths you might be able to succeed in both if it is and is not addressed and choose from there based on how likely you are to tackle the issue successfully.

 

[Dral]

I'd agree that usually after the appeal it may be best to move on. Did they allow you to have legal counsel at the appeal meeting?

I was curious and read through my school's handbook. It says legal counsel is allowed at the appeal meeting and is allowed to give counsel to the student, but is not allowed to otherwise actively participate in the proceedings.

I doubt if they'd grant you another appeal for some reason, but I'd look into it since you're pretty much at the end of the road with this school it seems. Nothing to lose. However, as Mad Jack said, they should have experience and in their experience, your failure might typically result in failure to be able to keep up or succeed in their curriculum in the future.

I'm sorry this happened to you. Just because you failed courses doesn't mean you're a failure as a person. Try to keep your head up and start thinking about your future directions. You'll likely look back at this later in life and think to yourself that it was meant to work out the way it did.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I completely agree with everything said--it must be very difficult going through this.

I think the advice to read the school handbook is really your one recourse at this point, and that is a longshot. But you may as well make certain you leave no stone unturned. After that, allow some time to grieve, then figure out what else you could do that can still make you happy in life. Medicine is but one of a number of potential jobs that can bring you happiness, and while it must be daunting to feel that you're starting over again you still have plenty of time to find a different path.

 

[Dantes]

So sorry to hear. I guess I'm surprised at how varied some of these policies are across schools. My school would make you repeat a year after failing a remediation (so failing twice), before even bringing up dismissal.

I will say the further I go into medicine the more I regret it. Also I'm sure if you can make it to med school you have the intelligence and work ethic to succeed elsewhere.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

Terribly sorry to hear that, but what I'm about to say is going to sound harsh.

Your post reads like you're not really taking the onus on yourself. You failed 2/3rds of MS1 so far, by a decent margin, and you write it as though administration is being unfair not letting you continue. If anything, you should be thankful that they're not attempting to take even more tuition money from you in what will most likely be another failed remediation. If your personal issues were significant (death of your parents/siblings, you were in a terrible accident, etc) then I'd have something else to say, but otherwise as other posters have said take this as a blessing in disguise.

You got into medical school, you're clearly a very smart individual, there's a world of opportunity opened to you. Good luck friend.

 

[throwaway123342]

Holy **** this is crazy. You school dismissed you for failing two courses? At my school you can remediate TWICE before being dismissed. They just scammed you out of 70k.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Holy **** this is crazy. You school dismissed you for failing two courses? At my school you can remediate TWICE before being dismissed. They just scammed you out of 70k.

Yea it kinda blows my mind. Idk why any MD school would operate like that. Kind of seems ridiculous. It can take awhile to adjust to med school and find your groove in the first year.

 

[DarkBluMage]

I can't believe how many MedEd simps are in this thread who are seriously trying to make us believe that this was "in the student's best interest".

And for the record, out of the 5 students who failed out of my first year, 4 students ended up graduating the year below me. How can you possibly think that its good policy to screw over dismiss a student who fails twice at any point in this med school education?

Yea I have to disagree with most of the comments here. Per OP’s school policy I wouldn’t even be in med school right now. I struggled in the beginning during my M1 year, successfully remediated and now I’m doing well in my 2nd year and one unit away from starting rotations.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I can't believe how many MedEd simps are in this thread who are seriously trying to make us believe that this was "in the student's best interest".

And for the record, out of the 5 students who failed out of my first year, 4 students ended up graduating the year below me. How can you possibly think that its good policy to screw over dismiss a student who fails twice at any point in this med school education?

Did they match?

 

[throwaway123342]

Did they match?

Yes, all at traditionally "MD" programs.

 

[drewskinator]

Damn, that sucks - sorry to hear that. But it is crazy that they didn't warn you that you were in probation or something after the first fail. As for advice, I really don't know. Did you read the student manual to see if there was anything that could be done besides an appeal? In my manual it says something like people who are dismissed can apply for readmission in like 1 or 2 years, but I don't actually know anyone who tried that even though I know a few people who got dismissed for academic reasons.

As for your question about this being common, at least in my school it isn't. Here, if you fail 2 courses you have to remediate the entire year. But, if you fail any class on your remediation year you get dismissed.

I met with admin committee following my second failure. Based on three possible options (remediation of second course, restarting the year the next year, and complete dismissal) I was given the third option: complete dismissal.

 

[drewskinator]

So sorry to hear. I guess I'm surprised at how varied some of these policies are across schools. My school would make you repeat a year after failing a remediation (so failing twice), before even bringing up dismissal.

I will say the further I go into medicine the more I regret it. Also I'm sure if you can make it to med school you have the intelligence and work ethic to succeed elsewhere.

Thank you for this. I definitely showed myself I am capable of doing something great, for sure.

 

[drewskinator]

I'd agree that usually after the appeal it may be best to move on. Did they allow you to have legal counsel at the appeal meeting?

I was curious and read through my school's handbook. It says legal counsel is allowed at the appeal meeting and is allowed to give counsel to the student, but is not allowed to otherwise actively participate in the proceedings.

I doubt if they'd grant you another appeal for some reason, but I'd look into it since you're pretty much at the end of the road with this school it seems. Nothing to lose. However, as Mad Jack said, they should have experience and in their experience, your failure might typically result in failure to be able to keep up or succeed in their curriculum in the future.

I'm sorry this happened to you. Just because you failed courses doesn't mean you're a failure as a person. Try to keep your head up and start thinking about your future directions. You'll likely look back at this later in life and think to yourself that it was meant to work out the way it did.

No, didn't have legal cousel, didn't even think it was necessary. Was completely blindsided by the decision. As far as experience, it is a newer school. It has not graduated a class yet. I'll not try to disclose any more details, but feel free to PM me. I

 

[drewskinator]

Is this an MD school? I’ve never heard of one that doesn’t do remediation. Look at the handbook policy. Sorry to hear your situation

Remediation was offered after first failure, second failure prompted them to offer either remediation again, restart first year, or dismissal.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

No, didn't have legal cousel, didn't even think it was necessary. Was completely blindsided by the decision. As far as experience, it is a newer school. It has not graduated a class yet. I'll not try to disclose any more details, but feel free to PM me. I

this kind of makes sense since they really want to make sure that their first classes have a high passage rate on the boards...

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

I can't believe how many MedEd simps are in this thread who are seriously trying to make us believe that this was "in the student's best interest".

No idea what MedEd is but some folks don't want to give OP false hope either. They've already argued their case and were denied. If it's in their policy that they can do this unfortunately not much OP can do.

I'm glad you had friends who were able to come back from those circumstances, unfortunately that doesn't go well for everyone and costs the students even more.

Holy **** this is crazy. You school dismissed you for failing two courses? At my school you can remediate TWICE before being dismissed. They just scammed you out of 70k.

Wouldnt by that logic theyd want to let them retake the year and grab another 70k

 

[Taddy Mason]

I went to an established US MD school which, starting with my class, changed its policy to 2 block failures MS1 = automatic dismissal that can only be appealed on grounds of a procedural error by the school. We lost 11% of my class first year as a result and the policy was revised the following year. That said, the one person who was dismissed but able to successfully appeal had to do a partial remediation of most blocks MS2 (if you only failed 1/3 block exams you could retake a different MCQ exam, sit for an oral exam, or retake the clinical skills depending on the exam failed and it didn’t count as a failed block if you passed), and was unable to pass Step 1 after three attempts. Two people that just barely missed the 2 strikes policy were unable to pass Step 1. And the one person who joined my class from the class above (due to failing multiple blocks under the previous more “lenient” policy) ultimately matched and graduated but struggled significantly the whole way through. I still think that perhaps the policy is a bit strict, however there certainly seems to be a correlation.

 

[deleted1079620]

No idea what MedEd is but some folks don't want to give OP false hope either. They've already argued their case and were denied. If it's in their policy that they can do this unfortunately not much OP can do.

I'm glad you had friends who were able to come back from those circumstances, unfortunately that doesn't go well for everyone and costs the students even more.



Wouldnt by that logic theyd want to let them retake the year and grab another 70k

MedEd = office of medical education

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

MedEd = office of medical education

Ah then definitely no simp, I argued our tuition going up during our COVID year despite it clearly costing them far less to run, especially since pre-clinical is just Board & Beyond videos but with their professors recording it like 6 years ago. Was able to get $1500 back for everyone and was forever hated by administration🙃

 

[Med Ed]

I went to an established US MD school which, starting with my class, changed its policy to 2 block failures MS1 = automatic dismissal that can only be appealed on grounds of a procedural error by the school. We lost 11% of my class first year as a result and the policy was revised the following year. That said, the one person who was dismissed but able to successfully appeal had to do a partial remediation of most blocks MS2 (if you only failed 1/3 block exams you could retake a different MCQ exam, sit for an oral exam, or retake the clinical skills depending on the exam failed and it didn’t count as a failed block if you passed), and was unable to pass Step 1 after three attempts. Two people that just barely missed the 2 strikes policy were unable to pass Step 1. And the one person who joined my class from the class above (due to failing multiple blocks under the previous more “lenient” policy) ultimately matched and graduated but struggled significantly the whole way through. I still think that perhaps the policy is a bit strict, however there certainly seems to be a correlation.

This underscores the impossibility of ever devising a perfect dismissal policy for academic failures. No matter what you come up with you will inevitably make errors. More draconian policies have the drawback of prematurely evicting people from the profession. More lenient policies run the risk of stringing people on for years, wasting large chunks of their lives and saddling them with unconscionable debt. And depending on what happens with a given class you always end up making policy adjustments based on the last war.

These threads usually have the same pattern. The first responders give the school the benefit of the doubt and encourage the OP to do their due diligence but prepare to move on. The second responders strike a more angry and combative tone. Unfortunately all we have to go on are fragments of one side of the story.

 

[mistafab]

In the end though this will be the right thing for you. Better the school let you go now then to possibly keep failing, or fail later, and tossing money away. In the end you’ll find the right path for you. This was a detour.

 

[drewskinator]

This underscores impossibility of ever devising a perfect dismissal policy for academic failures. No matter what you come up with you will inevitably make errors. More draconian policies have the drawback of prematurely evicting people from the profession. More lenient policies run the risk of stringing people on for years, wasting large chunks of their lives and saddling them with unconscionable debt. And depending on what happens with a given class you always end up making policy adjustments based on the last war.

These threads usually have the same pattern. The first responders give the school the benefit of the doubt and encourage the OP to do their due diligence but prepare to move on. The second responders strike a more angry and combative tone. Unfortunately all we have to go on are fragments of one side of the story.

Well said. Can't give all the details of course, but I appreciate this response.

 

[collegestud2013]

Hi all. To keep things brief, I am an MS1 and I was recently dismissed from my school because I did not pass 2 of my first 3 blocks during my first year. I was really shocked to learn that my administration went straight to dismissing me and not offering remediation for the courses NOR the possibility of restarting MS1 next year. As far as my grades, I was within 5-10% of passing on my final grades, so I wasn't failing abysmally.
Despite my grades, I never had any issues regarding professionalism, attended class regularly, and got into NO trouble or issues outside of my academic performance.

Is a response like this from administration regarding 2 failed courses common? I have already appealed and was denied. I explained to my deans that I had some personal issues that were stopping me from performing my best, but it did not help my case.

Please help me guys, I am so lost.

I would get an attorney to review your case (even if they charge for the initial consultation). Don't assume that everything the school is doing is 100% within their legal right. As others have said, read the handbook on the official policy and what the formal dismissal process at your school is to start off. Don't assume the school administration followed every bit of their process as written. Especially if this is a new med school that probably doesn't have much experience with dealing with cases like this in the past. Legal counsel can be helpful for recovering damages if the school didn't follow their own dismissal process, or their process violate any federal/state/local educational laws or have something that cannot be legally enforced. An attorney experienced in educational affairs should be able to look into the details (eg what was specifically documented when the school chose to deny your appeal). In many cases, even if the legal grounds for litigation are weak, the attorney can in many cases may be able to negotiate a settlement out of court with your school.

As others have pointed, if what you're saying is true, it's a bit unusual for a med school to outright dismiss someone for academic reasons alone without any remediation attempts. Most USMD schools would give at least give the option to repeat MS1 year in a situation like yours.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Take a long, hard look at yourself. That third block: did you do better? Do you think you can make it through medical school? If you want to be there, read the handbook and seek legal counsel. Good luck with everything.