Discouraged by Faculty for Specific Interest

[mxrtz]

I'm struggling a bit and would like some insight from my fellow peers on here...

MS1 here - since my cardiology block, I've realized how much I love even the basic science behind it, and have found a lot of joy from shadowing and speaking with many people in the field. I am in the midst of beginning the cardiology interest group and wanted to meet with the head of the cardiology department (who is also the chair of medicine) about my goals, interests and plans for the interest group. I was met with immediate discouragement, as he believes there is no way I know what I'm interested in yet. How do I deal with doctors who dont support a clear goal I have? Every other cardiologist at my institution that I've spoken with is so encouraging and excited for me but him.

I understand the notion of going in with an open mind, and I have, but it's undeniable that I am most interested in cardiology after learning about other fields too. How do I navigate dealing with this?

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[Billiam95]

Had a similar negative interaction MS1 and remember feeling similarly discouraged. In hindsight, and what I'd say to you, there are dour apples in every bunch, you might have caught him at a bad time/in a bad mood, and you can't expect everyone to be your cheerleader. Only you can know if your interest is genuine and the onus is on you to pursue your own goals.

 

[Dantes]

Do you need him to approve the group or something? Otherwise you seem to have plenty of encouraging cardiologists in your network otherwise so I wouldn't let it bother you.

 

[ginsengreset]

Cardiology is a fellowship after an internal medicine residency, so I imagine that at least part of his dourness comes from the fact that, as cards chair / medicine chair, he's probably bombarded by requests for research, letters, and favors from residents applying to cardiology fellowships. It's sort of how a pet peeve of many IM subspecialty attendings/fellows is brand-new interns gunning for fellowships and asking for interesting patients to write case reports on before they've even figured out how to properly order imaging in the hospitals EMR.

As others have said, it sounds like there are many other enthusiastic cardiology attendings who can help with the interest group. On the other hand, it would probably be helpful to have the support of the chair when you apply for IM residencies, especially if you're aiming for places with a good track record of placing grads into cardiology fellowships. If you reach out to this chair again I'd suggest framing your discussions around learning more about the various subspecialties of IM, cardiology included, since he's chair of the whole IM department.

 

[mxrtz]

Thank you so much everyone for your support and insight! I have also applied for internal medicine interest group leadership, which he is actively involved in, so I hope to reconnect with him through that. Hopefully, he will be able to see that although I am drawn towards cardiology, there is no doubt I appreciate and value every specialty.

 

[operaman]

Yeah sounds like he’s the one with the problem and you’ll find a lot of these bah humbug types as you go through Medicine. Being chair of two things like that sounds like the worst job ever though.

In his defense, he’s probably seen countless med students and interns come and go as they change their mind and vanish to other fields. He also knows the odds you stick with cards all the way are low. Maybe you get to third year and decide cardiothoracic surgery fits better.

There’s also such a massive power differential between a chairman and a student. There’s still a huge differential between chairs and assistant professors! He may be more engaged when you’re applying for fellowship or for your faculty position. Until then he’s got too much else going on.

Anyhow, for now just find the attendings that are exciting and encouraging. Find some good mentors and start working toward the goal. Adjust along the way as needed.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

#WhyNotBoth

It's very reasonable for you to have an early interest in Cardiology and explore it.

It's also very reasonable to consider that this early in your training, you might find something else you like more.

 

[dgdg]

Forge your own path.
I found from my Engineering days to Pre Med to Med School, and then Residency that my 'assigned' advisors routinely gave the worst advice. I always sought out individuals based on my own explorations and networking. These contacts were highly valuable in shaping my career.

Ignore the negative people.

 

[When the Moon Forgot]

When I was debating whether or not to pursue MD/PhD (already had offers in hand) versus MD only, the Chair of my undergrad biology department (an MD PhD himself) discouraged me from the former, saying "life is too short." Other faculty members were really supportive then. Now a few years after finishing medical school, I am so glad I didn't listen to that department chair at the time. You will get advice and guidance from all sorts of people in life, some of which you'll agree and others you'll disagree. Ultimately, you're in the driver seat. Make decisions that are right for you and never look back.

 

[Drjc1977]

I'm struggling a bit and would like some insight from my fellow peers on here...

MS1 here - since my cardiology block, I've realized how much I love even the basic science behind it, and have found a lot of joy from shadowing and speaking with many people in the field. I am in the midst of beginning the cardiology interest group and wanted to meet with the head of the cardiology department (who is also the chair of medicine) about my goals, interests and plans for the interest group. I was met with immediate discouragement, as he believes there is no way I know what I'm interested in yet. How do I deal with doctors who dont support a clear goal I have? Every other cardiologist at my institution that I've spoken with is so encouraging and excited for me but him.

I understand the notion of going in with an open mind, and I have, but it's undeniable that I am most interested in cardiology after learning about other fields too. How do I navigate dealing with this?

If that is your interest and there is no real reason not to pursue cardiology, then just do it.

 

[LucidSplash]

Professors, even chairs, are human like all of us. They are entitled to their opinion. You are entitled to yours. It’s ok to have an interest. I’m not sure why you are perseverating on this one opinion when you have so many positive ones as well. Just because this person is the chair doesn’t mean their opinion is the most meaningful.

Carry on. You may stick with cards or you may decide on something else. This is too small of a thing to let it rattle you.

 

[mxrtz]

Professors, even chairs, are human like all of us. They are entitled to their opinion. You are entitled to yours. It’s ok to have an interest. I’m not sure why you are perseverating on this one opinion when you have so many positive ones as well. Just because this person is the chair doesn’t mean their opinion is the most meaningful.

Carry on. You may stick with cards or you may decide on something else. This is too small of a thing to let it rattle you.

Hey! Thanks so much for the insight. This is the first time that I've encountered someone like this (I know, I've been blessed with really supportive mentors prior to this and recognize that that isn't common). I'm going to be working with this person through our internal medicine interest group as he is one of the main donors and advisors for the group. Hope that gives more information about why this concerned me more than usual.

 

[LucidSplash]

Hey! Thanks so much for the insight. This is the first time that I've encountered someone like this (I know, I've been blessed with really supportive mentors prior to this and recognize that that isn't common). I'm going to be working with this person through our internal medicine interest group as he is one of the main donors and advisors for the group. Hope that gives more information about why this concerned me more than usual.

I don’t know that this person wasn’t supportive. He didn’t say “don’t go into cards” or “you’re not a good fit for cards.” He said worry first about IM. He gave you a different perspective based on his experience and suggested you focus less on the subspecialty and more on the specialty you’ll have to match into and succeed in first before trying to get into the subspecialty. That isn’t the same as not being supportive, it’s just another perspective. It’s fine to have an interest in the subspecialty, but you have a ways to go before that becomes your main area of focus.

I get that some of us never heard anything but “you can do anything!” while in high school and undergrad and even medical school. While that has its value, hearing different viewpoints also has value and should at least give you something to think about even if you end up deciding that’s it’s not your perspective.

It sounds like maybe this person has a different opinion on what is valuable for a medical student than you have heard before and given their involvement in the internal medicine interest group, they are being supportive where they feel it is most important and where they have added value.

Just something to consider.

 

[thumbz]

Keep in mind too that you're an MS1 who just fell in love with cardiology. (Excuse the following assumptions) You've never spent a day wearing lead in the cath lab. You've never shadowed someone reading 100 EKG's and 30 echo's in a row at 6pm after they finish call. Seen the ****show that is overnight cardiology call (especially if you take regional chest pain call).

He's probably seen hundreds of MS1's and 2's who would LOVE to do cardiology, only to realize in MS3/4 it's definitely not for them. Half of them because they saw a job posting for an interventionalist making $750k a year. So he's meeting you with skepticism, encouraging you to keep your options open and not pigeon-hole yourself too early on with research and cards specific activities. Most of us live long enough to get jaded when it comes to the optimism of early students.

Sit back, enjoy the remainder of MS1 and MS2 and don't romanticize any one speciality too much. Not yet at least.

 

[Wolvvs]

Keep in mind too that you're an MS1 who just fell in love with cardiology. (Excuse the following assumptions) You've never spent a day wearing lead in the cath lab. You've never shadowed someone reading 100 EKG's and 30 echo's in a row at 6pm after they finish call. Seen the ****show that is overnight cardiology call (especially if you take regional chest pain call).

He's probably seen hundreds of MS1's and 2's who would LOVE to do cardiology, only to realize in MS3/4 it's definitely not for them. Half of them because they saw a job posting for an interventionalist making $750k a year. So he's meeting you with skepticism, encouraging you to keep your options open and not pigeon-hole yourself too early on with research and cards specific activities. Most of us live long enough to get jaded when it comes to the optimism of early students.

Sit back, enjoy the remainder of MS1 and MS2 and don't romanticize any one speciality too much. Not yet at least.

This is really true. When I was an MS1 I really liked what we learned about cardiac physiology and pathology and was pretty convinced I was going to be a cardiologist. I'm now an MS3 and fell in love with surgery, which was something I had basically ruled out for myself and not even considered during the first two years. I also discovered that the actual practice of cardiology just wasn't that interesting to me, and that the years of internal medicine needed to get there plus the chance of not getting a fellowship and ending up as a hospitalist/PCP were not something I was interested in at all.

Honestly you never know until you experience it for yourself, and I know how frustrating that can be as an MS1 or 2 because I went through the same thing myself. Doing specialty focused research if you find it interesting and have the time is definitely valuable, but students regularly change their minds during their clinical years.