Dilemma: Top notch US programs vs Toronto

[Jspev]

Hi,

Just wanted to get some opinions from everyone out there. Just to give a synopsis of my situation: I am in my 4th yr of med school in the US and am Canadian and from Toronto. I am applying to psychiatry and am getting interviews at top places like Hopkins, Cornell, Yale, and Northwestern. They all will offer me the appropriate visa (H1-b).

I still am debating whether or not to apply to Toronto through CaRMS. I know a lot of it is a personal decision but wanted to hear any thoughts people had. I did an elective recently in Toronto so I know a few of the faculty now.

One problem that does come up with applying to the US and Canada is that the matches have slightly different timelines. The Canadian match is slightly earlier and if you match to a spot there you are automatically withdrawn from the American match.

One thing I know from the website for the Royal College is that American grads with 5 years of PG experience can write the Candian licensing exams.

Any thoughts/opinions or experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks!

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[utorontograd]

Sorry for the insensitivity, but this is a fantastic dilemma to have. I can't help but... congrats! Good luck.

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UTG.

 

[HDMTX]

Where do you want to end up ultimately, in Canada or ? Just curious... I was in a similar boat. I applied to CaRMS and NRMP and matched to the one program I interviewed/ranked in Canada and was withdrawn from the US, but it wasn't for psychiatry. Are you looking to practice privately or stay in an academic center?

 

[Methodnike]

Hi,

Just wanted to get some opinions from everyone out there. Just to give a synopsis of my situation: I am in my 4th yr of med school in the US and am Canadian and from Toronto. I am applying to psychiatry and am getting interviews at top places like Hopkins, Cornell, Yale, and Northwestern. They all will offer me the appropriate visa (H1-b).

I still am debating whether or not to apply to Toronto through CaRMS. I know a lot of it is a personal decision but wanted to hear any thoughts people had. I did an elective recently in Toronto so I know a few of the faculty now.

One problem that does come up with applying to the US and Canada is that the matches have slightly different timelines. The Canadian match is slightly earlier and if you match to a spot there you are automatically withdrawn from the American match.

One thing I know from the website for the Royal College is that American grads with 5 years of PG experience can write the Candian licensing exams.

Any thoughts/opinions or experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks!

I would personally go to US if you are sure to get a spot on the HB-1 visa. Then you can get the green card. As a canadian citizen, you'll get the choice to work anywhere in Canada and USA.

 

[avenirv]

1. i think this year the american one is earlier
2. to get H1B visa in the medical domain INS/DHS requires to have all 3 usmle's passed

so, ask the schools if they know this.

 

[pattycanuck]

Does it really matter? As above, where do you want to end up practicing?

As you have been advised that you should receive your H-1B as an American resident (and as above also, finishing all 3 USMLEs), you can stay after your residency to clear up any issues regarding time equivalency of American and Canadian (RCPSC) programs - as you are aware many American programs are less in length than their Canadian counterparts. The RCPSC has indicated that your American program as one of its prerequisites, must be at least equal in length. If not, you will have to complete extra training deemed equal (eg a fellowship year or two...) in the RCPSC's eyes. That should be the ONLY issue here.

As Canadian residencies for the most part are seen as satisfactory in American hospitals' eyes, ... and are in demand ... getting an H-1B after training in T.O. should be NO PROBLEM.

The world is your oyster now ... do whatever you please.

 

[Jspev]

Just want to thank everyone for their thoughts and information. Like a couple people said it does depend whereI want to end up...so that's something I should probably think a little more about. As for private v academic, I am not really sure at this time.

HDMTX-where were you at school and what field did you go into (if you don't mind me asking?)

avenirv-thanks for the infor on usmle step 3. I've just recently learned this. Fortunately for me I can work my intern year on my student visa through something called "Optional Practical Training" which provides a 1 year extension. However I would need to pass step 3 during the intern year before getting the h1-b...but good to know for sure.

Thanks again and feel free to post any other thoughts or comments.

 

[tos2]

I was in a similar situation: From Toronto, went to med school in the US. I ended up staying in the US match only when I realized I had a good chance of matching in a great US program. I'm now a resident at an Ivy League institution. I've spoken with fellowship directors at the U of T hospitals, and I have a great advanatage over U of T resident applicants. The caliber of research at these instutions is above and beyond anything that goes on in Canada, and having an attending or fellow in Canada with connections to these powerhouses is an asset to the hospital. Stay in the US - you'll open many, many more doors for yourself. I'm finally in a position where hospital are begging me to come back - not the other way around!

Re USMLE: if you trained at a US institustion, you do NOT need to pass all 3 steps of the USMLE for H1B visa. Also, if you are a US medical grad, you should demand an H1B. Programs that advertise that they only grant J-1 visas (as mine does) are doing so as a deterrent for FMGs. This rule will absolutely be broken for you. Contact the PD or secretary prior to the match if you have any doubts.

Good luck!!

 

[winstonm]

I'm now a resident at an Ivy League institution. I've spoken with fellowship directors at the U of T hospitals, and I have a great advanatage over U of T resident applicants. The caliber of research at these instutions is above and beyond anything that goes on in Canada, and having an attending or fellow in Canada with connections to these powerhouses is an asset to the hospital.

A bit too general of a statement IMHO. Depending on the residency you're pursuing, if you're at Toronto you'll likely have an advantage over those from most other locations because you'll likely get signif. research experience in the residency as part of the SSTP, CIP etc. Moreover, UofT puts out the 2nd or 3rd most biomed research in North America.

It looks like the US programs may give you a real advantage with respect to the visa situation should you ever wish to relocate to the US permanently. That may be something worth considering.

 

[docbill]

That is an excellent delima to be in (want to trade?)

(If you want to return to Canada to work) I believe you may actually have an advantage to coming back to UofToronto if you did residency at one of these top schools. The way I saw things happen is that if you come from a big name university in the US, they will give you a better offer then if you come from Canada itself. Its kind of like them buying the brand name. This will be splatered all over their website and everything else you do in the future. The famous line which I heard people say "we stole him from Harvard or Yale or ... " followed by a big laugh.... hahaha.

 

[Bear1056]

So, I have interviews and a high liklihood of matching into medicine programs at Mayo, Michigan or Mass General. However, I eventually want to work in Canada. So, I have applied into CaRMS, but am not sure how receptive Ontario programs are to US grads (who are canadian citizens, and therefore in the 1st iteration).

Anyone have info on this? Is matching in Canada worth the risk of passing on a place like Mayo?

 

[HDMTX]

I know plenty of people who are Canadians and trained at top programs including MGH who had no problem coming back to Canada to work so go where you want! Don't feel obligated to do residency in the US. That being said, I feel the clinical training in Canada is second to none. I'm a US citizen who did med school and residency in Canada and now came back to the US for fellowship as I ultimately want to practice back home near family.

 

[nowiksc]

Dr. Joel Oppenheim is the Dean of Admissions (I believe) at the NYU med school, and he held an information session at my school last year. I asked a lot of questions about going to med school in Canada, and he said, "UBC, Toronto, McGill, they're all as good as anything you'll find down here." He was pretty adamant that Canadian schools do not sacrifice quality of education.